Those Thia kids were saved by bribes pmsl

How old are you? I ask for two reasons
1. You are making fun of someone's belief when they haven't even done anything wrong to you.
2. You didn't know how Buddhists roll?

What books do you intend to send them by the way?

Any books and all.
There seems a distinct lack of tangible knowledge of the surroundings.

Sure people who may be inclined to be spiritual might promote stuff they cant support with evidence, but are they really to suggest that it was the spite of the mountain that was appeased by candles that released those kids?

Its like travelling back in time to an age where people worshipped gods of all things.

I know your intentions are only good, but it made me chuckle that you think you need to travel back in time to meet people that worship gods of all things. You should start reading(or traveling).

I recall reading a story of a buddhist who lived in a cave.
He spent half his live in it doing nowt then one day came out into the populous below the mountain, who were having a festival of something or other.
A child attempted to avoid an elephant and stepped on his foot, and in anger the buddhist raised his hand to strike the child..... only to stop and realise he had failed and went back up the mountain into his cave (to presumably die)

No i'm not talking about reading those type of stories ffs

So what sort of guff would you have me read?
I have a large collection of books, several even mythological, but thats all fiction.

Its no different to Hesiod writting the origin of the gods.
He was a bored lonely mountain farmer making s hit up.

writing

My lady is thai and a devote buddhist..as are most thais in the remote parts..fabulous people and if westerners werent so obsessed with greed and power and went back to spirituality then you might understand that there is more to this planet than you could ever comprehend

Im anti greed.
But I aslo would prefer fact before I jump into anything.

Fact is every civilisation has had its own spiritual belief

Had.
They also drowned innocent women as witches.

Ignorance abounds.....everywhere

Im amased Im sure.
What exactly still has a spiritual god btw?
Does kitchen table legs have spirits....how about little mouse farts?

I havnt had the best 3 weeks on bf
Maybe I sould have put another layer of carpet around the computer with a serving of twigglets?

Thats my sense of humour btw, take it or be offended

Im not in touch with the spirit world...i cant give you any answers..i am believer in the soul...im sure shamans etc could try to enligbten you.all life is ..is be the best dusty you can be..and ridiculing eliefs isnt a great start...

elfs?

the trouble with you garbage man apart from berating me is you are thick

computers do not have any teeth and cannot crunch twiglets

stupid stupid stupid

Beliefs

perhaps if you were to try some nice chicken broth (but breathe on each spoonful to cool) you would get better results

evidently, I must be wise...like the one with the socialist cadboard he hides behind

my laptops thrive on scraps of cheese and biscuits, cashew nuts and  dribbles of wine, champagne and real ale.
Occasionaly spat out when engerland lose again

I keep them mean - so they know who is in charge.  I am not stupid

bring on the soccerball next month!!!

For those spiritualist types,

What are we saying then?
That those divers wernt needed (I didnt exactly see the mountain offing the kids up)
Or they were needed because the offering werent good enough to sate the spite of the moutain god thing?
Are (we) saying that the result would have been different if people outside wernt lighting candles?

You have probably had an urban upbringing..never relied on nature to provide for you..its not your fault you do not understand...simpler people...i use the word simpler reluctantly and would prefer more enlightened people

But we know how to farm etc etc, not out of guessing s hit but out of learning things from what we call science.
We dont rely on prayer to make things grow, we know what makes em grow ffs.

God bless Tommy Robertson.

Its what they call primitive.
Thats why I say send books.

Floods droughts diseases ... we know how and why they all happen?? Just a balancing of weather etc..i fished most of my life so i went through feast and famine...i have an empathy towards spirituality...as i said before..i have zero answers..just an understanding of something you probably do not..

The Thais are very religious people and very superstitious. Doesn't make them bad or stupid.
Thailand is a also a very insular society, with the vast majority of Thais having no knowledge of world affairs. Its not that they lack curiosity, they just don't have access to the information (whether its text or media) because of the language barrier. The vast majority ofThais don't speak English, its not taught as part of their elementary education system.
Again, it doesn't make them ignorant or stupid.  Its a beautiful country with beautiful people - welcoming, friendly and extremely polite.

Thats all very sweet platini.
But it doesnt make the prospect of asking the mountain to give up the kids any less daft Im afraid

Thank you plat..well put..i personally am happier amoungst people who will insist you eat and share their good fortune to have food..than i am with people who think what has he got that i want..i understand beliefs that every river ,mountain, field has a spirit, its just not a western way of thinking..i prefer theirs..im closer to that than the avarice,greed and vanity i see here

If the elders had convinced the kids that a boogeyman lived in the mountain then they may never have got into such trouble in the first place.

Sounds to me the west shouldnt have bothered

Jul 19, 2018 -- 7:40PM, black shuck wrote:

My lady is thai and a devote buddhist..as are most thais in the remote parts..fabulous people and if westerners werent so obsessed with greed and power and went back to spirituality then you might understand that there is more to this planet than you could ever comprehend

How presumptuous are you??, Fantastic that you have found a Wonderful lady who is a Buddist, the only religion in the world NOT on the make, but to preach 'New inspiration' on a gambolling forum makes you look like a Hippy/new age guru stuck in time.

To presume a whole nation is free of greed because of Buddism is beyond preposterous, have they no crime in Thailand!, no murders, no rapes, no robberies, no ripping off tourists?, you know the Farang, that for the uninitiated is a term that they use for us (colloquially falàŋj) we are seen as a target, they PRESUME we are all millionaires.

The tourist hub of Bangkok's Khaosan Road is associated with farang the Thai word for someone of European ancestry, no matter where they may come from, so in their eyes, we're the same as the Germans and the French guys, how F"^*ing presumptuous is that!! we are seen as a target.

Why don't you enjoy your lady (I'm now PRESUMING you're not an old ugly git, the usual suspects) and keep your 'Pollyanna' worldview for the gullible and stupid?, HTH.

BTW, my daily talking to morons allocation has been used up on this post, so knock yourself out with false justification and silly sweeping statements that obviously fill the void you call a brain.

Or rather that should have been *neednt have bothered

Kids do stuff like explre caves..the manager probably shoulda had more sense..the mountain let them live not perish..alls ok

Haha thats me in my place innit fox..well done..you must be very proud..im sure you are a delight to meet...my apology for existing

It's a boy! it's a boy! he shouted, with tears streaming down his face, it was at this point Dave realised this was the last time he would visit Thailand.

..the originality is the funniest bit..

being faced with the real world it all caves in 

well done boxing - they love to shove morality on to ya and others

'feel proud of yaself'  but its the tactics progressives like to use

Hey mo, hope you are well and winning, I'll pm you.

another one who prays to rentaghost

Very charitable and christian of you
but then when did truth worry you?

Hey guys, play nice! I only cone on here once in a very 'Blue moon' and can't tolerate discord, (not on my medication )

Work away guys, that's what's what used to make this place great.

haha
trilby grasses up those who won't accept his line of stuff he can't prove but feels entitled to believe enough to have others banned.
nice work trilby
The grassland fairies will be proud

I wanted to say this earlier as well but I thought dusty might have posted this as a small joke but I now see that he wholeheartedly believes that all people on the planet should be like him, and that if they aren't, they somehow need to be made fun of.

The kids were not saved by the cave spirit. They were saved by the thai seals and the international divers. No one thought the cave spirit had taken them. During the time the kids were in the cave, the waving of the fishing nets by people outside was 'to remove the bad spirits' from inside the cave, so that the kids could remain safe. This might of course sound ridiculous, but it wasn't done because they thought doing it would rescue the kid. The rescue was still to be done by humans. This was the equivalent of praying, which again might sound ridiculous to you, but is still a widespread disease(at worst, which I think is how you want to imagine it).

Once the kids were out, the bribes that you mention were layed out for Nang Norn. Again, they weren't laid out because it would save the kids(kids were already out). They were layed out to appease Nang Norn, who the people believe got p1ssed off at something. Probably lack of prayers. Those bribes came after the rescue, but I guess you aren't so bright so as to figure out the sequence of events?

I am not a buddhist but from what I read, I don't think they prayed or layed our bribes to rescue the kids. Those were just the prayers. It would have been laughable if they had rejected rescue efforts. But they didn't. The same people rescued the kids. That's how religions work. Again, try reading the books you intend to send them.

OK, This is not my place so I will withdraw, have fun guys, God knows the media are trying to stupify us minute by minute, so a good old fashioned barney/spat makes us alive. GN guys, be lucky.

Again, try reading the books you intend to send them.

What?, the books I suggest that should be sent are the books written as part of the enlightenment, not religious books.

Those bribes came after the rescue, but I guess you aren't so bright so as to figure out the sequence of events?

Cripes. Actually you will find they were gathered outside most of the time offering up things and lighting candles and praying to the spirits.
Off, after the humans from the mainly enlightened regions came to save them those offering things to the mountain were joyous because of that fact....whould they have hated the mountain spirits had the westerners not been successful?

During the time the kids were in the cave, the waving of the fishing nets by people outside was 'to remove the bad spirits' from inside the cave, so that the kids could remain safe.

What year is it again?

There are caves all over the place detraveller, feel free to occupy one if you must, but don't degrade what human ingenuity has done for the thousands of years.
Just because those still in villages believe stuff thats fanciful doesn't mean its right.

Hey detraveller , I was just off and saw your excellent post, I hope no one is decrying the beliefs on the regional people, they are refreshing and perhaps perplexing to many. A region naturally does not represent a whole country.

I believe the International efforts were sympathetic and inclusive in this triumph. It was a magnificent example of what can be achieved by individuals and individual organisations cutting across party, religious and cultural and Government barriers in times of great peril.

I'm offski GN and GL.

The tourist hub of Bangkok's Khaosan Road is associated with farang the Thai word for someone of European ancestry, no matter where they may come from, so in their eyes, we're the same as the Germans and the French guys, how F"^*ing presumptuous is that!! we are seen as a target.

Here's another idiot who wants the world to know everything about him, but knows feck all himself. So boxing, can you differentiate an iraqi from a syrian? won't they both be arab for you? can you differentiate between an indian and a paksitani? can you differentiate between a sudanese and a nigerian? won't they both be african for you?

White skin = farang. That's the same in the palces ive been to. Everyone assumes I should speak good english becasue my skin is white. They don't expect me to speak german. When they are out to rip off tourists, they won't bother with our nationality. White = farang = money = stupid = won't dare go to the police anyways. That's why you are the target. I am sorry if you feel offended that they call you the same word they use for the french and germans but taht's because they can rip all of them off with the same ease. Nothing to do with bringing you down to the level of the french or germans

nowt to do with praying to a mountain

hope this helps

They'd have got them out quicker if they'd sung Onward Christian Soldiers.

Take moisok for instance. He thinks the politicians work for him just because he votes for them. You might want to send him a few books too while you are at it. Its 2018 ffs.

Who knows if the british divers hadn't intervened, they'd have gotten the kids out quicker. Maybe somewhere in Thailand a dusty(or a cleany?) is whining about how the brits spoiled Nang Norn's rescue plan after receiving the bribes.

Maybe there is, but then all the more reason to send books.

Had I said 'these people are clearly backward lets eradicate em' then that would be too much

But suggesting that what they think is primordial and giving them access to the things we have acquired isn't offensive.

If non of us learned then we would still be barbarians in deserts without science or understanding of the world around us.

What do those villages make of computers and all the technical advances that rocked up into that village recently in the effort to assist?

Mores to the point, how come science led the mission and not prayer?

detraveller, OH dear just after I was being nice to you, never mind, and yes I can tell the difference between different nationalities, as unlike many I have been lucky to have visited all these countries, HAVE YOU??.

I have extensive knowledge of Thailand, have you ever been?? I came back 2 months ago!.

I have visited at length every continent bar the frozen one ( you may recognise this as a UK take on Continents not a North American one). I' away I have better things to do, be lucky, but more importantly be healthy.

Sorry for the delayed reply I was on the Phone. GN and GL

The geological surveys, the weather tracking, the scuba equipment to stop them from drowning, the computer prediction software determining best approach, the drugs given the kids to keep them calm enough to save, the thermal equipment taken them while in the cave, the nourishment given them to keep them alive.....
Where was prayer during this time, taking a back seat?

Someone asked what year it is. Did you know that in Thailand its the year 2561 ?

Thats right, they are literally years ahead of their time

Has Buck Rogers just landed there?

detraveller, I'm actually in bed now, will you please give it a rest! this is a gambolling forum with anonymous posters using made up names spouting opinions, it's a great relief valve ( that's an English industrial revolution term, so you know) for venting frustrations. Be gracious for once in your life and accept my good wishes for a GN

I really am off guys GN and GL.

traveller doesn't even live in this country what would he know

a Mutti plant I guess

dustybin    19 Jul 18 19:38 
So what sort of guff would you have me read?




A dictionary would be a good start

What I wonder is what those who are thanking the spirits think would have happened had the world of discovery not stepped in?
When a trained diver with equipment (that itself was a product of science) died, how would anyone else have managed to even reach them, let alone getting them out on prayer and offering alone?

Or do those same people thing the spirits actually made it more difficult given that science was doing the attempt, and had it been a monk say, the waters would have disappeared?

In the Mosta Dome in Malta, they have a bomb in a glass cabinet on display. During WWII it came through the roof when the Church was packed at Sunday Mass and it failed to explode. Locals believe to this day that it was divine intervention which saved the day. Dusty would say that it was a mechanical fault but Who will ever really know. If people want to believe such things, what harm are they causing? It is easy to mock things that we don`t understand or agree with. Live and let live.

Then there was the stampede that kills thousands every year at Mecca, of even that crane that wiped out loads that was blown down in the wind....

I didnt say those wafting fishing nets or whatever were doing harm
I said they could do with giving a bit more material to read

Mac, why didn't god intervene to save his cathedral in Cov?

A world WW11 bomb fails to detonate! has this ever happened before,

This God seems very selective which of his houses he will be bothered to save and the souls inside!

From wiki, these are just the British ones
...
Pages in category "British churches bombed by the Luftwaffe"
The following 26 pages are in this category, out of 26 total. This list may not reflect recent changes (learn more).

B
St Nicholas Church, Bristol
St Peter's Church, Castle Park, Bristol
Temple Church, Bristol
St Mary le Port Church, Bristol
C
Cardiff Metropolitan Cathedral
St Nicholas' Church, Radford, Coventry
Coventry Cathedral
D
St James' Church, Dover
St Mary's Church, Dover
E
Exeter Cathedral
G
Great Yarmouth Minster
H
Holyrood Church
L
Church of Our Lady and Saint Nicholas, Liverpool
Church of St Luke, Liverpool
Liverpool Cathedral
M
Manchester Cathedral
N
St Benedict's Church, Norwich
St Julian's Church, Norwich
St Martin at Oak, Norwich
P
St Andrew's Church, Plymouth
Charles Church, Plymouth
S
St John's Church, Bath
Church of St Mark, Broomhill, Sheffield
All Saints' Church, Southampton
St. Mary's Church, Southampton
Y
St Martin le Grand, York

And of course, other churches in Malta weren't so lucky.

I am not saying that I believe that it was divine intervention, the point that I was making was, that if it makes them happy believing that it was, increases their faith in God and makes them better persons, surely that is a good thing.  God works in mysterious ways, as the saying goes. No one can prove beyond doubt that there isn`t a God and likewise nobody can prove that there is. That`s why it`s called Faith, I presume, you either believe or you don`t. If there is no God, the people who believed that there was will not be any wiser, but if there is a God, the ones who didn`t believe and mocked believers could be a little worried. I don`t know the answers. Live and let live.

TMM, no one is being mocked, beliefs are a very personal thing, I have been studying this stuff for 50+ years, I need no lessons from weekend Buddhists like the idiot above above, here is a taste of just one branch of 'Spirituality' I find interesting. about 'God'......

This absolute, ever-expanding, instantaneous psychic gestalt, which you call God if you prefer, is so secure in its existence that it can constantly break itself down and rebuild itself.

Its energy is so unbelievable, that it does indeed form all universes; and because its energy is within and behind all universes, systems and fields, it is indeed aware of each sparrow that falls, for it is each sparrow that falls.

Now - and this will seem like a contradiction in terms - there is nonbeing. It is a state of, not of nothingness, but a state in which probabilities and possibilities are known and anticipated but blocked from expression.

Dimly, through what you would call history, hardly remembered, there was such a state. It was a state of agony in which the powers of creativity and existence were known, but the ways to produce them were not known.

This is the lesson that All That Is had to learn, and that could not be taught. This is the agony from which creativity originally was drawn, and its reflection is still seen.

Some of this discussion is bound to be distorted, because I must explain it to you in terms of time as you understand it. So I will speak for your benefit, of some indescribably distant past in which these events occurred.

All That Is retains memory of that state, and it serves as a constant impetus - in your terms - toward renewed creativity. Each self (you), as a part of All That Is therefore also retains memory of that state. It is for this reason that each minute consciousness is endowed with the impetus toward survival, change, development, and creativity. It is not enough that All That Is as a primary energy gestalt, desires further being, but each portion of It (you) also carries this determination.

Yet the agony itself was used as the means, and the agony itself served as the impetus, strong enough so that All That Is initiated within Itself the means to be.

If - and this is impossible - all portions but the most minute last 'unit' of All That Is were destroyed, All That Is would continue, for within the smallest portion is the innate knowledge of the whole. All That Is protects Itself, therefore, and all that It has and is and will create.

When I speak of All That Is, you must understand my position within It. All That Is knows no other. This does not mean that there may not be more to know. It does not know whether or not other psychic gestalts like It exist. It is not aware of them if they do exist. It is constantly searching. It knows that something else existed before Its own primary dilemma when it could not express itself.

It is conceivable then, that It has evolved, in your terms, so long ago It has forgotten Its origin, that It has developed from still another Primary which has - again, in your terms - long since gone Its way. So there are answers that I cannot give you, for they are not known anywhere in the system in which we have our existence. We do know that within this system of our All That Is, creation continues and developments are never still.

The first state of agonized search for existence may have represented the birth throes of All That Is as we know it.

In other words, All That Is existed in a state of being, but without the means to find expression for Its being. This was the state of agony of which I spoke.

The agony and the desire to create represented Its proof of Its own reality. The feelings, in other words, were adequate proof to All That Is that It was.

At first, in your terms, all of probable reality existed as nebulous dreams within the consciousness of All That Is. Later, the unspecific nature of these 'dreams' grew more particular and vivid. The dreams became recognizable one from the other until they drew the conscious notice of All That Is. And with curiosity and yearning, All That Is paid more attention to Its own dreams.

It then purposely gave them more and more detail, and yearned toward this diversity and grew to love that which was not yet separate from Itself. It gave consciousness and imagination to personalities (us) while they were still within Its dreams. They also yearned to be actual.

Potential individuals, in your terms, had consciousness before the beginning or any beginning as you know it, then. They (you) clamored to be released into actuality, and All That Is, in unspeakable sympathy, sought within Itself for the means.

His was in your terms a primary cosmic dilemma, and one with which It wrestled until All That Is was completely involved and enveloped within that cosmic problem.

Had It not solved it, All That Is would have faced insanity, and there would have been, literally, a reality without reason and a universe run wild.

The pressure came from two sources: from the conscious but still probable individual selves who found themselves alive in God's dream, and from the God who yearned to release them.

This, then, is the dilemma of any primary pyramid gestalt: It creates reality. It also recognized within each consciousness (you) the massive potential that existed. The means, then, came to It. It must release the creatures and probabilities from Its dream.

To do so would give them actuality. However, it also meant 'losing' a portion of Its own consciousness, for it was within that portion that they were held in bondage. All That Is had to let go.

With love and longing It let go that portion of Itself, and they (souls) were free. The psychic energy exploded in a flash of creation (big bang).

All That Is, therefore, 'lost' a portion of Itself in that creative endeavor. All That Is loves all that is has created down to the least, for It realizes the dearness and uniqueness of each consciousness which has been wrest from such a state and at such a price.

It, of Itself and from this state, has given life to infinities of possibilities. From Its agony, It found the way to burst forth in freedom, through expression, and in so doing gave existence to individualized consciousnesses. Therefore It is rightfully jubilant.

Yet all individuals remember their source, and now dream of All That Is as All That Is once dreamed of them. And they yearn toward that immense source... and yearn to set It free and give It actuality through their own creations.

These connections between you and All That Is can never be severed, and Its awareness is so delicate and focused that Its attention is indeed directed with a prime creator's love to each consciousness."

"Even this overall pyramid gestalt (God) is not static. Most of your God concepts deal with a static God, and here is one of your main theological difficulties. The awareness and experience of this gestalt changes and grows. There is no static God. When you say 'This is God,' then God is already something else."

"All portions of All That Is are constantly changing, enfolding and unfolding. All That Is, seeking to know Itself, constantly creates new versions of Itself. For this seeking Itself is a creative activity and is the core of all action."

Interesting stuff but doesn't explain the rise of The Donald.

VG.

I have to add taken in isolation the above may seem strange, a bit like reading one paragraph and thinking you know the whole book, as I said just a minuscule example off one of the hundreds of different 'branches' on this subject that I have been interested in.

Interesting read foxy. You have knackered me out getting through that and I need my medicine now, the kind aka and trilby would approve of i.e. Royal Salute Be lucky!

I've just taken my 'smarties' (meds) so I'm off too, GL and GN.

Platini • July 19, 2018 11:10 PM BST
Someone asked what year it is. Did you know that in Thailand its the year 2561 ?

Am I to believe that this whole rescue thing doesn't actually take place for another five centuries ? And when it does it's gonna be achieved with ancient scuba diving equipment and not more up-to-date stuff ?

I am not saying that I believe that it was divine intervention, the point that I was making was, that if it makes them happy believing that it was, increases their faith in God and makes them better persons, surely that is a good thing



People are free to believe what they want, as long as it doesnt impact non believers.
In this case it's telling isnt it that even those who believe whatever it is they believe stood down and got out of the way so the people who tackled the problem with logic could do their work.
Its also telling that even though most were from different countries entering an area that believed this sort of thing they still wouldnt defer to them and took over the job of saving those kids.
Thats it all in a nutshell. People can come up with whatever they like, its not the non believers role to discredit them, its for the believers to show exactly why they believe they are right.
They have not supplied anything I can determine as evidence other than superstition and that to me is just mental health issues.

My mother isnt religious but is superstitious. It manifested itself in all manner of nonsense, couldnt put shoes on the table (fine, why would you), couldnt cut nails or hair on a sunday (wtf?, but never really inconvienced me), couldnt cross on the staircase in a home (very rarely became an issue and when it did it was my mother who would retreat back down the stairs if somebody was coming the other way). There were others but it was a long time ago and I forget them as I didnt give them much credence at the time.
The aborigines dont want people assenting Ayres rock for some tribal reason or other.

Everyone on the planet starts off with nothing. Some believe the scriptures written by the hands of other humans are devine in some respect, many just see them as artificial.
Offering up pigs heads (that was overlooked in this news piece) to offer a tribute to the mountain god is no different to the Aztec child sacrifice to the sun god.
Except non of these acts are sacficifical to the person committing the act (other than perhaps losing a child, or a pig). Why dont they offer up their own sacfrifice?

Its archiac and insular and holds back humanity when we pander to such illness in my view.

btf

The long winter nights must just fly by !

dustybin
19 Jul 18 18:47
Joined: 29 Dec 08
| Topic/replies: 15,147 | Blogger: dustybin's blog
The 13 kids stuck in a cave were at the will of a spirit called Nang Norn who used to be a human woman but turned into a mountain dont you know Laugh

It wasnt those very brave individuals really who risked their lives to get em out, it was those women outside offering the mountain pettles ffs

^

As others have said the offering was after the rescue.

The divers did indeed physically rescue the kids. But how were they guided to find them in time? Why did the water levels not rise and drown the kids? How did they survive on so little food and not fight and harm each other? These are all questions only nature can provide the answers for. It was not their time to leave and that is why they survived.

There is much we do not understand. For instance where was our spirit before we were 'born'? Where does go after we 'die'?

This dustybin character just appears scared of things he cannot explain.

Jul 21, 2018 -- 10:03AM, Facts wrote:

btfThe long winter nights must just fly by !

I'm thinking of taking it easier now by reading the garbage you post, that wouldn't tax the brain one Iota.

Jul 19, 2018 -- 7:11PM, detraveller wrote:

How old are you? I ask for two reasons1. You are making fun of someone's belief when they haven't even done anything wrong to you.2. You didn't know how Buddhists roll?What books do you intend to send them by the way?

Apologie for not asking earlier, how are the 'house guests'????

The offering to the mountain spirit after the rescue.
Pure speculation Im afraid, non of which has the first semblence of evidence, its all rather dangerous to assume things like confirmation bias on stuff without reason.

How were the divers 'guided'?
They had data of the inside of the caves, apparently using smell to locate them when close.
Why did the water levels not rise and drown them?
The water was diverted as much as possible keeping the levels managable, timing was determined on meteorological readings using a window of opportunity determined by humans using scientific means....not data provided by bell ringers.
How did they survive on so little food and not fight and harm each other?
People can survive longer than what those kids did without food.

Im not scared InsiderTrader, though as a Nihilist I do often follow the belief that suffering is guarenteed, pleasure is not. That nature itself is hell and as Neitzsche himself declared, 'we are all better off having never existed' (given the cryptic madness of conclusions drawn by those who clearly dont know)

Dusty your replies are based in the material world. How did the divers get the data? How do they have a sense of smell? How can they even dive?

I noticed you ignored the key questions..  where was our spirit before we were 'born'? Where does go after we 'die'?

Those are all notions that have never been ratified.
Materialism v Idealism isnt even known today so its somewhat pointless having that discussion.

Ultimately is down to the laws of the envivonment we 'exist' within, finding out those laws unveils 'truths' which get vindicated by being able to recreate theories from experiments....not hope, not faith not superstition.

What created those laws, or even what created us isnt within our knowledge.
What I do know is that I didnt create me, and that I had no say.
I also know that if I dont use reason to determine actions I do then I am by definition, unreasonable.
If being reasonable steps on somebodies omnipotent toes, then perhaps they might have given me better direction?

All that itself is answering a question of whimsy; that those who come to a conclusion dont have to provide proof for them to be accepted, whereas I say I dont know, but I will listen to the evidence.
If thats wrong then we are all as good as f ucked anyway.

detraveller, I don't know how your 'quote got into that post!!, it was meant for Facts, we were having a bit of banter.

The post should have had no quotes just the line to Facts..... Apologies for not asking earlier, how are the 'house guests'

Nevermind boxing, i stopped bothering when you said you've traveled all continents and lived in Thailand but expect people in Thailand to be able to differentiate between a german, french and brit. No offense.

religion - 'how to shift personal responsibility for an act'

You can quote me on that coz that's    mine   ho ho

Good point  detraveller, I lack the typing speed and patience to post in the same way as I would speak, perhaps I lack the eloquence as well. I have been blessed to have traveled to so many fantastic places and gotten out among the locals to get a taste of their diverse and rich cultures and beliefs, and I know I do not display the fondness and respect I have for them all in my ramblings on here GL with your punting today.

dusty, have you ever experienced anything that you cannot explain through logic and science?

On the basis that science attempts to answer the questions regarding life and existence and started with nothing its come a long way (especially as its been given no 'help') but what it doesnt know is significantly greater than what it does....so yes.

That is different to assuming things based on....hearsay.
Sacrificing things for gods of mountains, the sun or anything else is so old world mentality its actually pretty offensive.

How do you legislate for it anyway?
If you dont have to prove something you could make any old thing up
Thats ultimately what happens in theocracies, and would you want to live under one?

'religion is the attempt to control the population'

another great quote from Mo Towers

we have lots of them and all mine

dustybin
21 Jul 18 14:27
Joined: 29 Dec 08
| Topic/replies: 15,151 | Blogger: dustybin's blog
How do you legislate for it anyway?
If you dont have to prove something you could make any old thing up
Thats ultimately what happens in theocracies, and would you want to live under one?

^

I used to be like you. Since then I have had several spiritual experiences that I cannot explain that have changed my outlook.

Jul 21, 2018 -- 1:56PM, InsiderTrader wrote:

dusty, have you ever experienced anything that you cannot explain through logic and science?

IT, I was a member of the Spiritualist Association of Great Britain from the 80s they were in Belgrave square back then, that was my starter for 10 so to speak. Not really something I want to get into on here for obvious reasons. I could suggest some reading material if you wish.