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Now I may be completely wrong here, which is why I'm opening this up for discussion, but if I'm right then this is going to be felt by many.
I'm reading some reports that are saying that Tax, National Insurance and VAT could rise by 3% to cover the cost. Some reports are saying Tax OR National Insurance OR VAT could rise, but some are clearly stating the former and 3% appears to be the main figure quoted.
Doing some rough calculations this will hit a £30,000 earner by a net £100 per month and that isn't all. VAT will certainly increase the home budget spending and if that wasn't enough, in April 2019 minimum pension contributions are also rising from 2% to 3% or, putting another way, 50%!!!
Now this shouldn't affect Betfairians too much because everyone on here is rolling in it, but for the person on the street this could hit hard!
Am I right or am I way off the mark?
Over to you lot...
I'm reading some reports that are saying that Tax, National Insurance and VAT could rise by 3% to cover the cost. Some reports are saying Tax OR National Insurance OR VAT could rise, but some are clearly stating the former and 3% appears to be the main figure quoted.
Doing some rough calculations this will hit a £30,000 earner by a net £100 per month and that isn't all. VAT will certainly increase the home budget spending and if that wasn't enough, in April 2019 minimum pension contributions are also rising from 2% to 3% or, putting another way, 50%!!!
Now this shouldn't affect Betfairians too much because everyone on here is rolling in it, but for the person on the street this could hit hard!
Am I right or am I way off the mark?
Over to you lot...
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If the government injected our entire foreign aid budget (£15bn pa) into the NHS I'm sure this would ease the financial problems . Let's face it , who in there right mind donates £200m to a country with their own space programme ? Will the UK get the credit when India put a man on the moon ?
Couldn't agree more Reynard but the government have already announced that tax increases are likely and the general understanding appears to be what I've already quoted. This is coming in and the public are already buying into the cost, even if they don't yet realise how much that cost will be.
Actual figures state an average of £2,000 per household is needed
Let's not forget , the additional strain on the NHS has NOTHING to do with mass immigration .
It has everything to do with a massive rise in population over recent years and this , of course , has nothing whatsoever to do with immigration - FACT !
It has everything to do with a massive rise in population over recent years and this , of course , has nothing whatsoever to do with immigration - FACT !
Any potential savings to the NHS over the years (smoking cessation, healthy eating, etc) will have delayed the inevitable, so meaning the catch-up has now happened.
Also, and this is the biggest reason for the nation's and NHS's current grief 40 years of year on year cuts to services, closure of most of our hospitals and walk-in centres and centralisation and selling off stuff to private profit will take more than just money to fix.
Mind you they found £50 billion (plus) for HS2!
You're right Reynard, it has nothing to do with immigration (or at least not much), but you'll be told it does.
The rise in population over recent years (about 10% in 20 years, 20% in 50 years) which has had as much to do with not many people being killed in wars than before as anything.
To answer the original point. The Tax burden will generally affect the poorest most, partly because the people setting the new rules don't want it to affect themselves all that much.
Not only is such a regimen tough on the lowest earners, but also on the smallest businesses, while the biggest organisations can always avoid whatever tax problem they might be faced with.
Also, and this is the biggest reason for the nation's and NHS's current grief 40 years of year on year cuts to services, closure of most of our hospitals and walk-in centres and centralisation and selling off stuff to private profit will take more than just money to fix.
Mind you they found £50 billion (plus) for HS2!
You're right Reynard, it has nothing to do with immigration (or at least not much), but you'll be told it does.
The rise in population over recent years (about 10% in 20 years, 20% in 50 years) which has had as much to do with not many people being killed in wars than before as anything.
To answer the original point. The Tax burden will generally affect the poorest most, partly because the people setting the new rules don't want it to affect themselves all that much.
Not only is such a regimen tough on the lowest earners, but also on the smallest businesses, while the biggest organisations can always avoid whatever tax problem they might be faced with.
The rise in population over recent years (about 10% in 20 years, 20% in 50 years) which has had as much to do with not many people being killed in wars than before as anything.
Er no. At list 5,000,000 net migration has happened in the last 2 years. This accounts for 90% of the population growth in that time.
Er no. At list 5,000,000 net migration has happened in the last 2 years. This accounts for 90% of the population growth in that time.
You're right Reynard, it has nothing to do with immigration (or at least not much), but you'll be told it does.
I thought Reynard was being ironic.
I have no doubt this will hit hard. A further interest rate rise and an increase in petrol/diesel duty is also on the cards.
I thought Reynard was being ironic.
I have no doubt this will hit hard. A further interest rate rise and an increase in petrol/diesel duty is also on the cards.
...and you can bet your life the energy companies will be looking at 10% again soon!
This could be a painful end to the decade
This could be a painful end to the decade
Insider Trader - Lies , Damn Lies and Statistics . Not sure which of the first two categories your '2 years' quote fits in lol
Re Foreign Aid:
This does, imho, need to be reviewed but fwiw is currently around £13.4bn which is 0.7% of GDP. (USA (0.17%), France (0.37%), Japan (0.22), Germany (0.52%).
Direct aid from UK to India and China has been phased out.
This does, imho, need to be reviewed but fwiw is currently around £13.4bn which is 0.7% of GDP. (USA (0.17%), France (0.37%), Japan (0.22), Germany (0.52%).
Direct aid from UK to India and China has been phased out.
Aah , thanks , I was unaware of the phasing out . I appreciate being corrected on that .
I'm retired but would happily pay more tax if the extra went directly to the NHS.
Unfortunately tax is like charitable donations , in many cases less than 10% actually going to the cause that one is led to believe one is contributing to .
Aka, in reality, for someone of a (say) £30k income, over half of the additional contribution is coming from National Insurance, which you no longer pay. A lot easier for retired people on the same income to digest
Unfortunately tax is like charitable donations , in many cases less than 10% actually going to the cause that one is led to believe one is contributing to .
Like charity, some people view paymnment of tax as optional.
Like charity, some people view paymnment of tax as optional.
Alcohol is up there with petrol and tobacco when it comes to tax , one way of contributing to government coffers I guess 
I was talking purely about a rise on IT Aspro.
Aren't the other 2 rises just speculation?
Aren't the other 2 rises just speculation?
Why dont we just an insurance policy issued by the tax office that save millions in treatment for those who turn up from else where looking a free deal
Jul 4, 2018 -- 5:12PM, i_agree_with_nick wrote:
You're right Reynard, it has nothing to do with immigration (or at least not much), but you'll be told it does.I thought Reynard was being ironic.I have no doubt this will hit hard. A further interest rate rise and an increase in petrol/diesel duty is also on the cards.
I thought he was too, I_A_W_N
Doesn't stop the statement being correct.
Your correction was a bit like one you might see in the Daily Mail, Insider Trader.
One reason we have a rising population is that people live longer.
People live longer because we have the NHS.
The NHS is cause and effect.
People live longer because we have the NHS.
The NHS is cause and effect.
If you bring millions of people into a country over a very short time then by definition they will not have paid into the NHS , that takes a lifetime of work
That’s the problem
That’s the problem
Our parents paid for our NHS by a lifetimes work
Parents of immigrants have paid nothing into the NHS, the NHS is funded by the previous generation
Parents of immigrants have paid nothing into the NHS, the NHS is funded by the previous generation
People are not living longer
Sometimes you just have to admire his continued determination to be wrong on every single thing.
Sometimes you just have to admire his continued determination to be wrong on every single thing.
People ARE living longer , but by the same token the age of retirement has risen in accordance with this so many of them are still working therefore still contributing through income tax .
Joined: 06 Nov 11 | Topic/replies: 23,983 | Blogger: lfc1971's blog
People are not living longer
Suggest you type 'average life expectancy uk' into google!
People are not living longer
Suggest you type 'average life expectancy uk' into google!
Retirement age is a bit of a red herring imo. State pension is so meagre that many are essentially continuing to work until their health fails.
We will all be bump off in the next 30 years or so
This Salisbury event is just the first test to see
if the NWO can get away with it as more and more robots do
the essential jobs to keep them.
This Salisbury event is just the first test to see
if the NWO can get away with it as more and more robots do
the essential jobs to keep them.
In the interests of learning - being genuine here - can anyone point me in the direction of any official medical body that says immigration has caused a massive strain on the NHS.
I'm not talking the Health Department so much as we know politics and the truth are unlikely bedfellows and they have most to gain by not blaming austerity.
But the Doctors' and Nurses' Unions. The Trusts. etc etc.
Surely they must be in a position to give expert opinion on this. So what's their opinion on immigration and the NHS.
(I know I could google but about to go out and do a day of decorating, with sporadic breaks and if I get sucked into the google vortex I'll get nothing done)
Ta.
I'm not talking the Health Department so much as we know politics and the truth are unlikely bedfellows and they have most to gain by not blaming austerity.
But the Doctors' and Nurses' Unions. The Trusts. etc etc.
Surely they must be in a position to give expert opinion on this. So what's their opinion on immigration and the NHS.
(I know I could google but about to go out and do a day of decorating, with sporadic breaks and if I get sucked into the google vortex I'll get nothing done)
Ta.
I have just told you how immigration is putting an immense strain on the NHS pineapple
Millions of people are using it who have not paid for it
What’s difficult to understand about that ?
Millions of people are using it who have not paid for it
What’s difficult to understand about that ?
And I can assure you there is no point asking anyone employed by the NHS
They won’t tell you the truth
They won’t tell you the truth
PP i look at it as you see we other businesses ie Carillion the bigger you get
the more you forget the original purpose of why you started or more open to corruption
Take me for instance mid 50's worked all my life have a safety critical job.I was told i had to
go private to get ears syringed as NHS don't do it now. Thousands of people a day may have to
rely on my ears/eyes for saftey,yet others get boob jobs to further a career.
Me yes i do think immigration has an effect by causing more people to visit a local DR
It is a vicious cirlce the more people the more hospitals,Dr's,nurses ,porters etc are required
and you will be forever playing catchup,all at a time when big companies are destroying jobs via
computorisation/internet.
the more you forget the original purpose of why you started or more open to corruption
Take me for instance mid 50's worked all my life have a safety critical job.I was told i had to
go private to get ears syringed as NHS don't do it now. Thousands of people a day may have to
rely on my ears/eyes for saftey,yet others get boob jobs to further a career.
Me yes i do think immigration has an effect by causing more people to visit a local DR
It is a vicious cirlce the more people the more hospitals,Dr's,nurses ,porters etc are required
and you will be forever playing catchup,all at a time when big companies are destroying jobs via
computorisation/internet.
Wit - as far as I am aware some GPs offer NHS ear syringing and some don't.
The reason why they don't is because it's potentially injurious and in most cases unneccesary - drops will usually resolve the problem.
If you do have to have them syringed and your GP doesn't offer the service, then a charge of £75+ (I think) at a private clinic does sound excessive. Where drops are ineffective, it should, imo, be provided by the NHS.
Given your circumstances, I think your employer should pay.
The reason why they don't is because it's potentially injurious and in most cases unneccesary - drops will usually resolve the problem.
If you do have to have them syringed and your GP doesn't offer the service, then a charge of £75+ (I think) at a private clinic does sound excessive. Where drops are ineffective, it should, imo, be provided by the NHS.
Given your circumstances, I think your employer should pay.
Re boob jobs:
No one should get a boob job on the NHS "to further a career".
From the NHS website:
Is cosmetic surgery available on the NHS?
Cosmetic surgery is not routinely provided on the NHS.
Occasionally, it may be provided on the NHS for psychological or other health reasons. For example, the NHS might pay for:
breast implants if a woman's breasts are severely underdeveloped or asymmetrical, and it's clear this is causing her significant psychological distress
nose reshaping if the person has breathing problems
a tummy tuck if the person has excess fat or skin after weight loss or pregnancy
a breast reduction operation if the weight of a woman's breasts is causing her back problems
Generally, most people who wish to have cosmetic surgery will need to pay for this privately.
Reconstructive or plastic surgery can also be available on the NHS. This is different from cosmetic surgery; it's surgery to restore a person's normal appearance after illness, accident or a birth defect. It includes procedures such as rebuilding breasts after a mastectomy, or repairing a cleft lip.
No one should get a boob job on the NHS "to further a career".
From the NHS website:
Is cosmetic surgery available on the NHS?
Cosmetic surgery is not routinely provided on the NHS.
Occasionally, it may be provided on the NHS for psychological or other health reasons. For example, the NHS might pay for:
breast implants if a woman's breasts are severely underdeveloped or asymmetrical, and it's clear this is causing her significant psychological distress
nose reshaping if the person has breathing problems
a tummy tuck if the person has excess fat or skin after weight loss or pregnancy
a breast reduction operation if the weight of a woman's breasts is causing her back problems
Generally, most people who wish to have cosmetic surgery will need to pay for this privately.
Reconstructive or plastic surgery can also be available on the NHS. This is different from cosmetic surgery; it's surgery to restore a person's normal appearance after illness, accident or a birth defect. It includes procedures such as rebuilding breasts after a mastectomy, or repairing a cleft lip.
Most women know that if they want to improve their sagging boobs they say they are having back problems and got a big hooter that they can't breathe properly.
IAWN Have brought this up with the union will see if anything happens
my GP had always done my ears(normally around every 5 years)and are well
aware of my line of work.
But my main point is, it is to big and getting bigger and needs to go for want
of a better term back to basics.
my GP had always done my ears(normally around every 5 years)and are well
aware of my line of work.
But my main point is, it is to big and getting bigger and needs to go for want
of a better term back to basics.
To answer an earlier question...
Properly and accurately, not an lfc answer.
https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-immigration-and-pressure-nhs/
fullfact is a VERY good and honest, charity driven, non-aligned site.
Properly and accurately, not an lfc answer.
https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-immigration-and-pressure-nhs/
fullfact is a VERY good and honest, charity driven, non-aligned site.
nhs is a total joke bescusue it is in the hands of politicians same as most public services. there is no strategy , no long term plan, no approch to recduce the terrible waste that goes on
and know the right wing tories weant to increase taxes to fund their pathetic lasck of a coheent polict...
its all very very sad but inevitable im afraid
i could say more biut whats the point
if may can stay in power through a bunch of right wing uninoinist forom ireland after a £1bn bung then we have no hope.
my 89 year old mum is currently in the hands of the nhs after a fall and all these people bleating on how good it is are wrong , trust me its not !! ^hr wait on atrolley waiting to be seen . 2 hrs waiting for an ambulance, in corect diagnosis and re submission when now seriously ill ! ITS A FICKUNG NATIONAL DISGRACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and know the right wing tories weant to increase taxes to fund their pathetic lasck of a coheent polict...
its all very very sad but inevitable im afraid
i could say more biut whats the point
if may can stay in power through a bunch of right wing uninoinist forom ireland after a £1bn bung then we have no hope.
my 89 year old mum is currently in the hands of the nhs after a fall and all these people bleating on how good it is are wrong , trust me its not !! ^hr wait on atrolley waiting to be seen . 2 hrs waiting for an ambulance, in corect diagnosis and re submission when now seriously ill ! ITS A FICKUNG NATIONAL DISGRACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry for your plight, Dragon and I wish you and your mum well.
I agree with you, the whole lot has been run down and dismantled or sold off to big business.
What they do, with assistance is to deflect blame from themselves.
I agree with you, the whole lot has been run down and dismantled or sold off to big business.
What they do, with assistance is to deflect blame from themselves.
study it breaks my heart to see whats happening until you experience it first hand you are just so unaware how awful it is- yes we hear fantastic stotries but we are in meltdownsituation the system is brocken, under resourced , mis manged to an appaling degeree and wortd of all argued over by politicians whio are simply not interesrted or incompetent.
i give up and it will only get worse.
May is atotally **** as is hunt they ont catre and even worse they do not know what to do . throwing more ill gained taxes at it simply is not the answere.
it has been a litergy of failure, interference and under resourcesing over many years now
i give up and it will only get worse.
May is atotally **** as is hunt they ont catre and even worse they do not know what to do . throwing more ill gained taxes at it simply is not the answere.
it has been a litergy of failure, interference and under resourcesing over many years now
my parents generation are paying the price with their lives ..................literally
Yes mate, and some earlier than they should.
As per my own experience with my mum.
Still as long as all the unnecessary managers, trusts, building firms, computer & IT experts, WH Smith, costa, car park companies, loads of outsourced organisations and mostly - the drug companies are all making a lovely living from it. Nothing will be done.
They put money in - but not to where it's needed!
As per my own experience with my mum.
Still as long as all the unnecessary managers, trusts, building firms, computer & IT experts, WH Smith, costa, car park companies, loads of outsourced organisations and mostly - the drug companies are all making a lovely living from it. Nothing will be done.
They put money in - but not to where it's needed!
spot on p
why cant someone see whats going on and pit it right its n ot rocket science ffs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
why cant someone see whats going on and pit it right its n ot rocket science ffs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Because as we have said before the people in charge do not
apply common sense either because they don't have any or and this is
the one i think common sense makes no money in the business world
apply common sense either because they don't have any or and this is
the one i think common sense makes no money in the business world
revoltion time i think enough is enough
these fickers need de throning
these fickers need de throning
we can spend millions on the royals and such **** as tropping the colour and a no mark wedding but my 89 yera old mum who has paid taxes and worked hard all her life cant get a hospitla bed and suitable care in her last days someone needs to be held accountable for what is going on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The only time a politician walks through the door of an NHS hospital it follows weeks of planning during which time the hospital administrators have prepared meticulously in preparation for said visit . Maybe they should give it a couple of hours after their 'tour' and then return unannounced using some excuse such as "has anybody handed in a set of keys to my 'taxpayer-funded luxury Victoria Embankment penthouse 2nd home?' I think I might have dropped them" and take a quick gander around the waiting room and use their eyes and ears during this 2nd visit to reach any conclusion as to whether the NHS really is fit for purpose .
too many people, if you,re not prepared to address that stop moaning
its like this, you can have an NHS of the type Britain has, or you can have mass unrestricted immigration
you cant have both, its impossible
you cant have both, its impossible
ps I wasn't referring anything said to The Dragon or anyone else on this thread
cant blame anyone for becoming annoyed
cant blame anyone for becoming annoyed
you see studyform says the NHS is being sold off to big business , but we need building firms to build hospitals, we need , at least in theory IT systems, we need car parks, whoever runs them is neither here nor there
so he will have to look elsewhere for the underlying problems
so he will have to look elsewhere for the underlying problems
by the way don't bother reading that full fact site on immigration and the NHS that studyform suggests
it is telling lies within the first few paragraphs
it is telling lies within the first few paragraphs
No it isn't, but you can't be swayed from what you are certain of, lfc.
Given your superior intellect, this is not a good trait.
In fact I'm starting to have doubts about it, maybe you are actually clueless after all, I don't know.
You will not find a less biased or fairer source of information, anywhere.
There are no lies, only stuff you don't want to know.
https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-immigration-and-pressure-nhs/
Given your superior intellect, this is not a good trait.
In fact I'm starting to have doubts about it, maybe you are actually clueless after all, I don't know.
You will not find a less biased or fairer source of information, anywhere.
There are no lies, only stuff you don't want to know.
https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-immigration-and-pressure-nhs/
first of all, even by their own figures EU immigrants do not cover their costs
and secondly they haven't understood how to make the calculation, which means that the costs are even greater
so there is no point reading that is there?
and secondly they haven't understood how to make the calculation, which means that the costs are even greater
so there is no point reading that is there?
look at it this way study, they are basing their figures on immigrants, who by the very nature of being such have not paid into the healthy service
lets take an example, not an extreme one, of someone who comes to live and work in Britain, they are here 2 or 3 years working and fall ill and have to use the health service
then they return home, who is paying for those costs, well the individual may very well have had to work for a further 40 years or more to pay for those costs
but hes gone back home, maybe never to return
now that is the nature of immigration, or rather freedom of movement
that is the problem
and that is something , just one there are others, that that full fact site doesn't understand or take into account when it does its calculations
there is no point quoting numbers, if you don't understand numbers
lets take an example, not an extreme one, of someone who comes to live and work in Britain, they are here 2 or 3 years working and fall ill and have to use the health service
then they return home, who is paying for those costs, well the individual may very well have had to work for a further 40 years or more to pay for those costs
but hes gone back home, maybe never to return
now that is the nature of immigration, or rather freedom of movement
that is the problem
and that is something , just one there are others, that that full fact site doesn't understand or take into account when it does its calculations
there is no point quoting numbers, if you don't understand numbers
Does that make any sense, and do you see why that full fact site doesn't make any sense in the real world?
Does that make any sense, and do you see why that full fact site doesn't make any sense in the real world?
they are basing their figures on the tax he might (or might not have paid ) for 2 or 3 years
that doesn't matter, they are wrong to base anything on that
he has to be here for 70 years at least
that doesn't matter, they are wrong to base anything on that
he has to be here for 70 years at least
OR, they could be here for 20 years, work and pay in, and not use the NHS. Because their home is here (hence the term immigrant).
I'm too tired to play games with you lfc. I work too hard and have other things to do.
Plus, there is nothing to be gained - you collate the information any way you want to, really.
I'm going to bed.
I'm too tired to play games with you lfc. I work too hard and have other things to do.
Plus, there is nothing to be gained - you collate the information any way you want to, really.
I'm going to bed.
of course he could, study , so could anyone immigrant or not
that isn't the point, the point is the nature of immigration now , it costs the health service now , and will do for decades longer
that isn't the point, the point is the nature of immigration now , it costs the health service now , and will do for decades longer
now I know you have a closed mind to anything like this, that's ok
it doesn't stop the facts, and the facts are that that full fact site doesn't know what is talking about, or at least pretends not to
don't trust it anyway
it doesn't stop the facts, and the facts are that that full fact site doesn't know what is talking about, or at least pretends not to
don't trust it anyway
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