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i_agree_with_nick
22 Jun 18 11:01
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Date Joined: 21 May 10
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Forget about party politics - this really is a problem; and if the figure is £43bn, it's a massive problem.

What are the powers that be doing to address this?

.
https://www.theguardian.com/money/blog/2017/dec/02/pensions-timebomb-rents-homeowners

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Replies: 46
By:
Aspro
When: 22 Jun 18 12:06
What do they need to do Nick?

This will mainly affect those in the south so if they cannot afford it they will have to move further north where rents are cheaper. As they say, pensions are ok so can't see why anyone else needs to get involved.
By:
i_agree_with_nick
When: 22 Jun 18 12:24
They need to facilitate the building of more houses and increase tax on buy to let.
By:
Aspro
When: 22 Jun 18 12:36
But as the article says, people would need to buy before the landlords do and yet they cannot afford to do so. And, if they increase the tax, then wouldn't that just be passed on to the tenant?
By:
i_agree_with_nick
When: 22 Jun 18 12:50
If they increase tax on buy to let, it will become less attractive to landlords.  If landlords continue to buy, then there is an increase in tax revenue.

It is possible that extra costs will be passed on to tenants.  Maybe we need some form of rent control although I'm not sure about that.

In any case, we need to think about how we pay for the people who will be renting in retirement.
By:
unitedbiscuits
When: 22 Jun 18 20:47
There are four easy measures any Govt could take next week to re-balance the housing market.
Obviously it won't be the Conservatives: as the Party of the landlords, any remedy they propose would be a concession to keep them in power.
Labour need to put clear water between their position and the Tories:
1) Commute mortgage tax-relief for landlords.
2) Make owners liable for Council Tax.
3) Tax rental income at source like other unearned income.
4) Liberalise the Housing Benefit baseline by which properties are valued.
By:
Ibrahima Sonko
When: 22 Jun 18 21:04
Any measures will be passed onto the renter, that is certain.

The only way to solve the housing crisis is to have more houses than the population but rich people wont vote for that.
By:
unitedbiscuits
When: 22 Jun 18 21:15
That is untrue, Ibrahima Sonko.
Nowhere else in Europe does the tax/regulation framework protect landlords as here.
The UK protects the interest of the landlord towards a two-state country:
Those with two houses, or more, and those with none.
It doesn't have to be this way.
By:
Ibrahima Sonko
When: 22 Jun 18 21:27
Agree with the people owning more than one home, but at the end of the day it will be passed on to the renter or the person renting their 10th holiday home. But is like in every society the rich get richer.

if the owner has a mortgage of 1k and charges the renter 1.2k a month lets just say how is it possible to change the market price unless their more houses than renters ?
By:
unitedbiscuits
When: 22 Jun 18 21:40
Look at how the market is ordered elsewhere.
Here, everyone has a roof over their head tonight, the housing crisis is not due to a lack of stock.
If there was a free market, prices would plummet overnight, and the Tories would be out of power.
By:
unitedbiscuits
When: 22 Jun 18 21:43

if the owner has a mortgage of 1k and charges the renter 1.2k a month lets just say how is it possible to change the market price unless their more houses than renters ?


There are more houses than renters, or more spare rooms, at any rate. So long as keeping them empty is a good investment, the situation continues..
By:
Ibrahima Sonko
When: 22 Jun 18 21:49
The tories are part the problem, but the uk is built on mortgages, be hard to change the last 40years of the uk economy.

Cant agree with spare rooms have to rented out play down the population issue when the owners maybe mortgage free etc.

The situation will always continue whilst the rich can get richer, i cant blame them Sad
By:
unitedbiscuits
When: 22 Jun 18 22:04
No of course no individual can be blamed.
Each will always do the best for his family.
So it needs a willing Govt to solve the crisis.
By:
i_agree_with_nick
When: 22 Jun 18 22:14
I used to think it was simply an issue of too few houses being built. Now I'm starting to believe that there are enough houses; it's just that too many are owned by buy to let landlords.
By:
unitedbiscuits
When: 22 Jun 18 22:28
Yes.
And the tax-breaks mean that a landlord can always outbid a legitimate house buyer.
Crazy.
By:
Ibrahima Sonko
When: 22 Jun 18 22:28
I would dread to see the numbers of the people who let houses, that will not ever be available.

We need more houses !!

A serious point i would like to make here, I work for an electricity company, a dno or an rno. Done that that for 30 years.

My standby duties revolve about people living in one house off a 60 amp fuse, when their 20 living that property, what do i do ?

Put the same fuse in or tell someone this is a mop ?
By:
betting_masta
When: 23 Jun 18 01:30
the real problem is wages have not gone up with inflation so everything has gone up in price but people are still earning the same they did 10~ years ago

most people's finances are like a sink with the plug open and the tap only half on so they can't fill it with water before the water drains away
By:
i_agree_with_nick
When: 23 Jun 18 12:24
Just for the record, house prices are falling across the country.

I selected about 15 random locations on zoopla and all had registered decreases.

A typical profile was:

Last 12mths: -3%
Last 6mths:  -5%
Last 3mths:  -2%
By:
i_agree_with_nick
When: 23 Jun 18 12:44
Just looked at another four. Three show falling prices over 12, 6 and 3 months.

In Truro, however, prices have risen 3.54% over the last 12 mths but have fallen by 1.02% in the previous 6 and 1.21% in the previous 3.
By:
Dr Crippen
When: 23 Jun 18 12:47
Rents aren't a problem at all.
They simply adjust to the demands of the market.

Too high and lack of demand brings them down.
Too low and high demand pushes them up.

Simples.

Making legislation on the back of spite towards landlords,will simply push prices up further and lead to fewer new properties getting built.
By:
prepared83
When: 23 Jun 18 12:55
Nick whats the figures for Reading?
Putting in a cross rail to london soon.
By:
i_agree_with_nick
When: 23 Jun 18 12:57
The point is that people currently renting aren't going to be able to afford to pay their rent when they retire.  The state will have to assist them.

Even if that costs half of the £43bn estimate, that's going to hurt.
By:
i_agree_with_nick
When: 23 Jun 18 13:04
I did look at Reading:

12mths -2.45%
6mths -4.51%
3mths -1.32%
By:
Ibrahima Sonko
When: 23 Jun 18 13:05
I often read about house prices falling, i see nothing of the south of england. And how do you value the price of the house, someone puts it up at a price but accepts lower meaning a fall ?

No doubt they rate it against inflation over period of time rather than wages.
By:
prepared83
When: 23 Jun 18 13:08
Cheers Nick
By:
i_agree_with_nick
When: 23 Jun 18 13:14
IS - The data will be based on historic selling prices.  I suppose there will be an element of subjectivity in current valuations which will be based on the sales prices of similar properties +/- recent market conditions.

If you do a postcode search (any steet) you can see historic sales prices for any property.
By:
Dr Crippen
When: 23 Jun 18 13:17
The point is that people currently renting aren't going to be able to afford to pay their rent when they retire.  The state will have to assist them.

That's what happens now.
If the government thought it would be cheaper to put private rental tenants who claim assistance in council houses they'd be doing wouldn't they?
They prefer to give the council houses to immigrants and their families.
By:
i_agree_with_nick
When: 23 Jun 18 13:25
Yes, it does happen now.

The concern is that because of the market conditions over the last 15-20 years, there are vast numbers of people in their 40s and 50s who never bought a house and never will.
By:
i_agree_with_nick
When: 23 Jun 18 13:33
Reading:

Average price paid over the last 3 months: £400k

Current average value: £421k


What's the average wage in Reading? £30k?
By:
Dr Crippen
When: 23 Jun 18 13:33
It'll work out.
By:
Dr Crippen
When: 23 Jun 18 13:34
Social cleansing is the answer.

Move the ones claiming high rents to areas where the rents are lower.
By:
Cider
When: 23 Jun 18 14:01
It all links into the same issue. There will be fewer people of working age to support those that aren't. As technology advances, the ability to keep people living longer improves however the need for manual work diminishes (internet, robotics, ai etc). In my opinion there's absolutely no guarantee that a middle aged person now will be in receipt of a non means tested pension (at any age). A person wiser than me, many years ago advised me that when I retire I'd better be really rich or really poor. Anyone in between with a modest self determined pension will be no better off, as the state will have pick up the tab anyway for what you're paying yourself. Essentially working people are supporting pensioners now, however it's unlikely to be reciprocated in thirty years.
By:
prepared83
When: 23 Jun 18 14:13
Yes Nick about that i think. Prices around here are crazy and hearing stories of people from and working in london coming
to Reading to live with what will be an easy commute.
By:
InsiderTrader
When: 23 Jun 18 14:51
Landlords have been subsisidised by the government for a couple of decades now. Gifted billions of pounds in tax relief and emergency interest rates since 2008. Other schemes like help to buy have also gone straight into their fat pockets.

The interest rate one is going to massively reduce pension payouts as well because the funds have to invest a proportion in cash.
By:
Cider
When: 23 Jun 18 15:02
It's not much fun shielding assets from inflation, nevermind achieving real growth. Equities seem bloated now as well, due to the cheap pound. It's a no win situation for mortals. The other thing you can't guarantee is gaining access to your pension pots without being taxed (down the line).
By:
i_agree_with_nick
When: 23 Jun 18 15:23
Start with £100; find three 1.01 shots per day. Go all in.

This time next year you WILL be a meelyonaire. (If they all win, of course.) Plain
By:
Dr Crippen
When: 23 Jun 18 15:24
Equities seem bloated now as well, due to the cheap pound.

That's a matter of opinion.
By:
betting_masta
When: 23 Jun 18 21:59
the government needs to build more houses

supply and demand

increase the supply, and all the other costs will go down
By:
unitedbiscuits
When: 24 Jun 18 07:59
Everyone has a roof over their heads tonight. So building more houses won't solve anything while the balance of the market weighs so heavily in favour of buy to let. It is a political crisis of inaction; solving it would mean prices falling, which would be unpopular.
It makes me chuckle that house owners are so focussed on the price of their houses, yet didn't even notice the loss as the Brexit vote decimated the value of everything they have. It's like this: a house on the Irish border is now worth thirty grand less than another down the same road, because it is valued in £.
By:
unitedbiscuits
When: 24 Jun 18 08:14
Cider - I'm more optimistic. The stock market is rising, but only as fast as that of say Italy or the USA - the cheap £ isn't the driving factor. As the BoE Governor says: depreciations are essentially how a country makes itself poorer.

Get all your money out of the UK and under the aegis of a pension, then you can beat one of the certainties of life. But not the other.
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