Halal meat in schools and colleges

The increased introduction of more Pine Martens has vastly reduced the numbers of grey squirrels in Scotland which favours the indigenous Reds. Greys do not have the same evasion methods in their genetic makeup as the Reds so the Grey population are hugely on the decrease.

There are squirrels and there are squirrels.

if you introduce an alien species nature unfortunately seems to create a population disaster

from foreign imports  we have had the water vole disappear in many rivers, cray fish, local natural oysters, even plants/weeds -  it is amazing the trouble it causes

Why is  it happening at all regardless of Slaughter Methods , what Country would Change what half the children in their schools are Eating because one in twenty of the Children follow a certain Religion ,its Insanity ,how has it even come about?
its practically saying that what is eaten by others is unfit to be eaten ,and that the Muslim Child will suffer if Eating it .

It's because the most intolerant usually win.

Jun 6, 2018 -- 4:34PM, casemoney wrote:

Why is  it happening at all regardless of Slaughter Methods , what Country would Change what half the children in their schools are Eating because one in twenty of the Children follow a certain Religion ,its Insanity ,how has it even come about? its practically saying that what is eaten by others is unfit to be eaten ,and that the Muslim Child will suffer if Eating it .

(Double Space Warning)
Now that you've come closer to the real issue, and avoided sounding like an islamophob, the next part is to ask this question to the right people.

I just googled what org schools fall under. Department of Education. It is beyond belief how much the muslims have infiltrated this department. Just take a look at the names here.

Secretary Education - Damian Hinds
Minister for school standards - Nick Gibbs

The management board is made up of:

    Permanent Secretary - Jonathan Slater
    Director-General, Social Care, Mobility and Equalities - Indra Morris
    Director-General, Education Standards - Paul Kett
    Director-General, Infrastructure and Funding - Andrew McCully
    Director-General, Higher and Further Education - Philippa Lloyd
    Chief Financial and Operating Officer, Insight, Resources and Transformation - Howard Orme
    Chief Executive, Education & Skills Funding Agency - Peter Lauener

Non-executive board members:[10]

    Marion Plant OBE; CEO of the Midland Academies Trust and Principal
    Baroness Ruby McGregor-Smith CBE; Former Chief Executive of Mitie Group
    Ian Ferguson CBE; businessman

Not one name there that sounds like a muslim name to me. There is one Syrian in the dept but I doubt he has that much influence over all these people.

Are you telling me that all these people have been bought by the muslims to ensure halal food is served in schools?
I am not denying the existence of the issue. What I don't understand is, why do people so easily get distracted by Islam when the solution of their issues could simply be asking the right people, the right questions? Has anyone taken up the issue with any of the ministers? Or do we just stick to cursing halal food and how cruel it is?

The question is Traveller Why 95 % of the Children at a School have to Eat what the other 5% prefer ? Its madness .

In what other walk of Life would this be acceptable ? Does it happen in Work canteens ?

Of course it is madness. What I am trying to say, and have been saying since the refugee crisis, is that its your own govt, the very people you voted for, that are implementing these decisions. And no one wants to ask the government, but happily rants about how Islam is taking over their country and its in their culture to do this and they'll never integrate etc etc. The politicians that implement these decisions know very well you will never be able to see past your hatred for Islam and that is why they get a free pass with everything they implement that is remotely related to Islam.

Jun 4, 2018 -- 1:53PM, casemoney wrote:

Do people who are not Muslim really want their Children eating meat from an animal that has suffered a horrific death ?Halal food is that which adheres to Islamic law, as defined in the Koran. The Islamic form of slaughtering animals or poultry, dhabiha, involves killing through a cut to the jugular vein, carotid artery and windpipe. Animals must be alive and healthy at the time of slaughter and all blood is drained from the carcass.Fookin Barbaric there should be absolute uproar regarding this ..I suggest a parent and Child Meeting and a Video of the Halal Procedure is Played , with the Volume full up to hear the Poor animal Squeals and Crys .. If my Kids were at School they would not be eating that shyte END OF .

Take this post for instance. You don't care about who made the decision, why the decision was made, what the actual issue was, what were they serving before, what were muslim kids doing before, why can't they continue eating vegetarian etc etc.

All you are talking about is how barbaric the halal way of slaughter is. Which is actually not related to the issue at all. Halal food was not introduced because its superior or less barbaric or anything. It was introduced for other reasons. Your rant abt it being barbaric has absolutely nothing to do with the actual issue. It is relevant, but not the major issue.

This is just one example. Take any issue related to muslims today and consider yourself the politician responsible for that issue. You'll note nobody even bothers about you because they are all busy convincing each other how the Kuran says so, how the muslim culture promotes this, how they believe in outdated beliefs, how bad the muslims are etc etc.

Just to expand upon this, if I may. I happened to be speaking to some elderly day-trippers today, on a coach trip from Kent. One old bloke just going on about how the immigration and stabbings have made him frightened to leave his house at night, and he's owned his house for 43 years now and it's never been this bad, etc etc.

I just Yessed him til he went, but it made me think even more about how much people are influenced by being bombarded by the same message all the time.

ALL of our media (not just out of governmental support, but also to sell their advertising and papers), seems to be 'blaming', whether directly or indirectly, IMMIGRATION, for all the country's woes, from the NHS, to the lack of jobs, crime, welfare, unfairness and more.
It was only a few years ago that the blame was all placed on DOLE SCROUNGERS and the workshy.
In the 70's and 80's it was THE UNIONS.
At other times there have been wars so it is all the fault of whoever THE ENEMY is at that time.

The fact remains that the policy makers, the law makers, the journalists and media owners are forcing public interest and opinion and it deflects from the real causes of nearly all our problems.

Unfortunately there seems to be a built-in message to anyone saying it might not be 'insert mane of current blame', which is to say they must be radical/liberal/luvvie or one of many others, and so it goes on.

The point is halal products are not labelled in the supermarkets and it is sold without people knowing if the animal has been stunned or not
It’s an increasing problem

And will continue to be just one more problem amongst many by caused by Immigration

So there are two points , halal products should be clearly labelled in the supermarkets

And halal meat should be banned from all supermarkets and schools

Oh and a third point, it should be illegal in the UK

And best to ignore Studyforms witterings, that the usual nonsense that bears no relevance to the problem

some of what study says is spot on but it does not apply to the televisual experience so much

but then manufacturing news is not a new phenomenon

Sorry about the formatting of the below. You should be able to work it out.  Doesn't present me with a problem as I never eat New Zealand lamb on principle, and I am  happier with the halal method of killing fowls than with the standard electric water bath.

Re labelling of beef, lamb etc, I think the key is for consumers to know whether the animal has been prestunned - if it has been I don't care about the other bits of halal.


Where is halal meat sold?
SUPERMARKET OR RESTAURANT
IS HALAL MEAT SOLD?
ARE PRODUCTS LABELLED AS HALAL?
Waitrose    Yes. Some lamb is halal. All other meat is non-halal    No halal labelling on New Zealand lamb
Marks and Spencer    Yes. All New Zealand lamb is halal. Chicken, beef and British lamb is non-halal    No halal labelling on New Zealand lamb
Tesco    Yes. Most New Zealand lamb is halal and some other meats use halal techniques. Some halal-only counters    At halal counters and kosher ranges
Morrisons    Yes. Some branded halal chicken, lamb and beef. New Zealand lamb is halal    No halal labelling on New Zealand lamb. Halal ranges show slaughter method
Sainsbury's    Yes. A range of halal and kosher products    Halal and kosher ranges are labelled
Fortum and Mason    No    N/A
Asda    Yes. A range of halal and kosher products    Only branded halal and kosher meals
Pizza Express    Yes    Not on menus, but on website
Zizzi    Yes    No
Ask    Yes    Not on menus, but on website
Harvester    Yes    Not on menus, but on website
Café Rouge    No    N/A
Giraffe    No    N/A
Byron    No    N/A
Nando's    Yes, at most restaurants    Information in some stores and online
Beefeater    Yes. 80% of chicken is halal    No
Gourmet Burger Kitchen    Yes    Not on menus, but on website
Wetherspoons    No    N/A
Slug and Lettuce    Yes    No
Pret a Manger    No    N/A
Costa    Yes. 80% of chicken is halal    No
McDonald's    No    N/A
Greggs    Yes    No
KFC    Yes    No
Subway    Yes    Yes

Why is it not labelled as pre stunned ? and halal
Because Muslims won’t buy it , and Christians won’t buy it

It should be illegal imo , however at the very least it should be labelled so that everyone knows just what is going on

Jun 6, 2018 -- 8:32PM, lfc1971 wrote:

And best to ignore Studyforms witterings, that the usual nonsense that bears no relevance to the problem

So sorry, I forgot to get your pre-approval.

If you could explain my inferior intellect to detraveller for me lfc, as elaborating on his post with my views is just not right.

I know you said I shouldn't be rude and I've been trying hard to bend to your more powerful brain, but I'm afraid I must just let one small comment slip through.
I'll reign it back in for the future and try to be less rude, but......

lfc, you really are a cok.

New Zealand for example sell a lot of meat to the Middle East , theirs is almost exclusively so
It should be banned from Europe  , certainly Britain

I didn’t bother to read detravellers post study
No point .

lfc - would you ban pre-stunned halal?  If so, why?     I agree with you on labelling, but the issue is "stunning", isn't it?, unless you object to the shape of the knife and the prayers.

I meant I would ban halal meat , I don’t want to even encourage the practice or allow it in Britain
Once that had been banned then we might talk about a form of halal that is humane , prestunned

And then at that point it might be ok , with the proviso that it is still labelled as halal
I still wouldn’t buy it

how are they allowed [in britain ]  to kill these animals they way they do...  i thought it would be illegal

for my own reasons I wouldn’t buy it

despite foreign species being introduced to this isle and causing chaos,  the indigenous are fighting back

water vole population is growing after local intervention

how would one stun a water vole?  show it a Mink!!??

: ) good old moisok

Cardenden/lfc - There is loads of information on this thread about slaughter methods.

Most Halal slaughter is now prestunned (80/85% even according to sources you would not expect to be sympathetic - RSPCA). From stunning on, the slaughter process is virtually identical, and in welfare terms IS identical. Loads of Halal meat is now produced in standard slaughterhouses for this very reason.  Your position, as with others on here seems to be based on an ignorance of the standard non-halal slaughtering process.

Moisok - you appear to have some knowledge of the countryside!  Bring back the mink hounds

is that so how do we know and the problem of non prestunned halal is not on the increase ?

I would say it is more likely to be an increasing problem, year on year
If not why will they not label ?

the liberal elite might oppose hounds like that to solve issues that affect the indigenous.

in nature it is not just the species but also the environment it changes.
It also eliminates other species.
we even have this with simpler forms such as river growth/weeds etc

I imagine for example they are afraid that if banned in the UK the supermarket chains will go to New Zealand or somewhere else and buy
Thus damaging our own industry
That is why it should be illegal for New Zealand to sell the UK halal products

Historically and until relatively recently ALL Halal slaughter was unstunned.  You should know that the raising, movement and slaughter of livestock is one of the most regulated processes in the UK.  Yes like everything there will be an underground and a rogue element, BUT almost every interested and informed party agrees that the % of stunned to total is the majority and continuing to rise.  Additionally it would be surprising if the increase in concern for animal welfare was uniquely a christian phenomenon - Most change is driven by customer behaviour.

Another example of how immigration could damage our own industry

I am happy if it is true Blackburn, I don’t know that I believe it

* blackbarn

lfc - well maybe not, but at least you are better informed.

I don’t believe any government figures or even bodies like the RSPCA

especially if they are in any way connected with race and religion and immigration
I don’t believe them , I’m like that

enpassant has the idea
except if you do try to implement some of his cause/effect by going to the person's responsible you are more likely to end up like robinson and plenty of others who get waylaid by the police for being outspoken

imagine anyone normal ever getting on sky papers etc etc

ps you would become a target

Nice work Blackbarn,

I am glad that animals are pre stunned with halal meat. As usual truth is the first casualty. I shall look at your list but I am now a little more reassured now knowing what you have told us.

With regard to the tall slaughtermen required to cut the throats of animals raised by their front legs I think casemoney has found a new niche market!

I Think the Usual Suspects need to move on from this one. Found wanting again! I hope they don't give up their day jobs as the villages around the country still need them!

What about fish, do they whisk it away as soon as it's caught and cut it's throat before it dies on them?

Like I said, every village needs one!

So which village do you satisfy the idea?

I am glad that animals are pre stunned with halal meat. As usual truth is the first casualty.

Or English in your case.

What do they do hit them over the head with it?

halal meet a minor issue but indicative of the eventual diaspora's hegemony

demographics will decide the issue

Truth hurting Crippen?

Not just an idiot but an oaf!

As stated previously, don't worry about all the Foreigners coming over here and taking your job. There will always be a job for the likes of you in every village in this country. I suggest you might want to lock up your wife though. I daresay she might me interested in a Foreign intervention if she lives with a bore like you!

Good day!

From May this year.

The Daily Mail has cited new figures from the Foods Standards Agency which show the number of sheep slaughtered in Britain without being stunned had doubled in six years, to more than three million.

Raising the mater in the House of Lords, Lord Trees called for a change in the law to ensure all animals had to be stunned before they were killed, asking “Does the minister agree with me that in that aspect of animal welfare we are going backwards?”

http://www.theweek.co.uk/58447/halal-meat-what-does-it-involve-and-is-it-cruel-to-animals

Isn't it time this vile practice was outlawed?

ah, now dr crippen is getting us closer to the truth of this problem

the usual suspects on here talking nonsense, suspected as much

96% of the dog being wagged by a 4% tail, we should no longer be surprised by these things.

http://vnonline.co.uk/vn/news/16927/Curb-rise-in-non-stun-slaughter,-says-Lo...

Here some source data on the story.  Lord Trees is a good man!, he's a bloo dy vet after all.

The article says - "Over three million sheep are slaughtered without pre-stunning each year, which represents a rise of around 50 per cent between 2011 and 2017. The number of non-stunned cattle declined over the same period".

Taking just sheep, this would mean that the 80% figure regularly quoted by various sources for stunned vs unstunned would be about right.  Quoting the number of unstunned sheep is meaningless without know the total sheep population slaughtered. Also articles don't make it clear whether this relates to uk slaughter or includes Lamb slaughtered abroad. We know that the bulk of NZ Lamb is halal.

lfc is struggling to contain his excitement, with the release of these further stats that he probably fails to understand.

why does it matter to the 3 million sheep slaughtered every year without pre stunning how many others are stunned?

what is the percentage of the muslim population in Britain?

Well of course it doesnt, but I am not sure anyone on here is trying to defend slaughter without pre-stunning. I'm not!!!!

An extract from what appears to be the source report........

"Alexander Trees, the only veterinary surgeon in the House of Lords, is urging the government and religious leaders to take steps to curb the rise in animal slaughter without pre-stunning. The comments come in the wake of recent figures from the Food Standards Agency (FSA), which suggest the number of sheep and poultry not stunned has been rising in the UK. Over three million sheep are slaughtered without pre-stunning each year, which represents a rise of around 50 per cent between 2011 and 2017. The number of non-stunned cattle declined over the same period".

The report mentions poultry (mind you no-one cares about fowls anymore!!) but no poultry is pre-stunned in the proper sense - The halal method is the same as your grandad (and possibly your dad if you are as old as me) used to dispatch a chicken - the current method is for the head/neck end of the fowl to be electrocuted in a waterbath. Neither are kind!!

so now we know after all there is a rise in animals being slaughtered without pre stunning
as I suspected

what percentage of the british population is muslim?

lfc - "what is the percentage of the muslim population in Britain?"   If you re-phrase the question, you'll be having that info at your fingertips imo lfc.

and while your at it what is the equivalent percentage of the population of "Brigain" that is Jewish.  Same issue for you!!, or should be.

brigain!!! where did that come from.  Never use an imprecise term that you cannot spell.

Here is the whole article from Vet on Line and Lord Trees' stuff.  Worth reading the whole thing.  What is strange (or not) is that it singles out ritual Muslim slaughter but ignores shechita (Jewish ritual slaughter)

Curb rise in non-stun slaughter, says Lord Trees. EU law dictates that all animals must be stunned before slaughter, but exceptions apply for the Muslim and Jewish faiths.Vet issues rallying cry to tackle ‘the elephant in the room’

Alexander Trees, the only veterinary surgeon in the House of Lords, is urging the government and religious leaders to take steps to curb the rise in animal slaughter without pre-stunning.

The comments come in the wake of recent figures from the Food Standards Agency (FSA), which suggest the number of sheep and poultry not stunned has been rising in the UK. Over three million sheep are slaughtered without pre-stunning each year, which represents a rise of around 50 per cent between 2011 and 2017. The number of non-stunned cattle declined over the same period.

EU law dictates that all animals must be stunned before slaughter, but exceptions apply for the Muslim and Jewish faiths. Writing an editorial in today’s Vet Record (16 February), Lord Trees highlighted concerns that much of the meat from non-stunned animals is making its way into the standard food chain.

Whilst environment secretary Michael Gove has announced a number of progressive animal welfare measures in recent months - including compulsory CCTV in all slaughterhouses - Lord Trees said now is the time to address ‘the elephant in the room’.

He acknowledged that this is ‘a difficult issue because of its religious dimension’ but pointed out that many imams and halal authorities accept reversible stunning, and the majority of halal meat in the UK is stunned before slaughter - 63 per cent of sheep and 75 per cent of cattle.

Whilst the BVA and many in the government would prefer that all animals are stunned before slaughter, demanding a ban is problematic, politically and possibly legally.

Lord Trees continued: ‘Personally, I have preferred that we marshal public opinion and seek to persuade the relevant religious leaders to reconsider their historic position - a position based on public health measures that were sound many hundreds of years ago but are now archaic and insupportable.

‘The religious leaders have the power to end the practice of non-stun slaughter and the onus to do so should be firmly put at their door.’

Meanwhile, he called for several measures ‘against which there can be no rational or legal objection’. These include installing CCTV in all abattoirs and clear labelling to allow consumers to avoid meat from non-stunned animals if they wish. There is also a need to accurately determine the amount of meat needed for religious communities who require non-stunned slaughter, in order to ensure that only sufficient numbers of animals are killed without pre-stunning.

Lord Trees concluded with a rallying cry to vets: ‘If ever there was an issue on which the veterinary profession could unite, this is surely it. Let our voices be heard loud and clear.’

of course about 5% could be more than that, add whatever small percentage for british jews you wish

now take that into account when you compare how many animals are not prestunned
if you wish to quote the numbers that are

thanks for that blackbarn, its ok we already knew that
pity you never mentioned it yesterday

thanks for that blackbarn, its ok we already knew that
pity you never mentioned it yesterday

thanks for that blackbarn, its ok we already knew that
pity you never mentioned it yesterday

thanks for that blackbarn, its ok we already knew that
pity you never mentioned it yesterday

thanks for that blackbarn, its ok we already knew that
pity you never mentioned it yesterday

thanks for that blackbarn, its ok we already knew that
pity you never mentioned it yesterday

I think he's unwell.

perhaps I missed it?

well its ok dr crippen brought it to our attention

lfc - this will keep you amused and fuel your agenda. https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/424133/response/1030496/attach/3/FOI%...

Blackbarn its a bit late now , it seems to me you are the one with the agenda , no ones fooled when you start running round now with new information
You’re too late we don’t have to see anything more from you , we already see too much

blackbarn    07 Jun 18 21:45 
and while your at it what is the equivalent percentage of the population of "Brigain" that is Jewish.  Same issue for you!!, or should be.



I don't think the majority of schools are forced to serve kosher meat to everyone, to please Jewish people, are they?

Saddo - My point is/was that the animal welfare issue here is exactly the same for Halal meat and Kosher meat. You say "I don't think the majority of schools are forced to serve kosher meat to everyone, to please Jewish people, are they?"  No probably not, BUT the majority of schools are not forced to serve halal meet to everyone either and nor are they. 

LFC - I have quoted no new information, I have merely quote the full report which seems to be the source of the information quoted by the people you seem to agree with. Do you actually have any opinions of your own? or do you merely agree with anyone whose evidence fits your agenda. Contrary to what you think, I do not have an agenda, I am a simple Sussex farm boy who loves animals and the countryside. I merely comment on what I read.  What do you do?

lfc - I bet you hadn't read my 22.16 link!!!!, when you posted at 22.22.   Oh the joys of ignorance, it's an article that fits your agenda, but it passed you by.

now now Blackbarn you could have quoted all that yesterday
But not a peep out of you about the large increase in the number of sheep  slaughtered and not pre stunned
3 million a year , and an increase of 50 % over 5 or 6 years

It wasn’t until dr crippen happened to point this out that suddenly you pipe up,
Well sorry you had plenty of time yesterday to mention this fact and you never did ,
Why not ?

I see that the debate about halal slaughter is still going strong, when the original issue is force feeding of halal food in schools. No wonder politicians don't face any objections when executing their policies and agenda. They just do it with one hand and show a green flag with the other and the public bangs its head straight into the green flag.

of course perhaps you didn’t know Blackbarn , that’s ok
Or maybe you did and it just slipped your mind

Which is it ?

lfc - because I didn't know, and because it is not reflected in the numbers of any other authoritative body, and it means nothing without context and background volumes.
Hth.  Did you read my 22.16 link???

so you happened to know everything or thought you did
Except this important bit of information that there has been an increase in the no of sheep that are being slaughtered without being stunned
And that this figure amounts to 3 million every year

Now that seems to me to be an admission that you either don’t know what you are talking about or you are deliberatedly mis leading
Ok I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt , you don’t know what you are talking about

Another vet website - "Veterinary Practice" - November last year...

"Humane slaughter is widely recognised as a part of good animal welfare practice, with the essential part of the procedure being the use of stunning, to ensure that it is sensation- and pain-free. However, according to survey gures released by the Food Standards Agency (FSA), almost one quarter (24.4%) of sheep and goats slaughtered between April and June this year had their throats cut while conscious – an increase from 15% in 2013. The number of chickens slaughtered without pre-stunning has risen from 3% in 2013 to 18.5% in 2017".

Ah now we are starting to see a little change now in Blackbarn
Well who knows why , perhaps we can all be thankful that crippen pointed him in the right way

Dr Willhelm Schulze from Leipzig determined long time ago that halal way was indeed the best way and the western way of stunning actually caused more pain than the islamic way of slaughter. You mugs don't know what you are talking about.

lfc - go back thru every thread I have posted on here and challenge me on the facts of this matter. I have posted loads of stuff that suits your argument, you merely stick to the stuff that suits your prejudices. I posted this one because the unstunned rate is exactly what they reported 10 years ago and the Chicken stuff is total bollocks.
I repeat do you do any research of your own or do you totally rely on others?

I don’t know Blackbarn I’m only going by what I’ve read on this thread
And you left out a pretty important piece of information

I accept it may not have been deliberate and it was more the case that you didn’t know what you were talking about
That’s ok .

Blackburn, has it started hurting yet?

So you don't do any research of your own - you merely believe (or slag off) what you read on here - Fine!

Re my posts, read them all again (there aren't many) and then come back with which bits you don't agree with. I left nothing knowingly out, and have posted loads of stuff that clearly suits you view of things. 

For the avoidance of doubt, I am opposed to slaughter without pre-stunning (except for fowls) and I fully support the labelling of meat that shows that the animal has been prestunned (no point having this for fowls) to show that the animal has been pre-stunned. I have no objection for any ritually slaughtered meat to be so labelled as long as clearly labelled as such (with the assumption that this will not have been pre-stunned). I would like fowls to be similarly labelled to provide choice.

that’s fine Blackbarn nothing wrong with that at all , you didn’t know this important piece of information , that’s why I was surprised that it seemed to bother you a little when it was pointed out to you

Oh well , no one likes to be thankful

lfc - do you mean this important piece of information?

The article says - "Over three million sheep are slaughtered without pre-stunning each year, which represents a rise of around 50 per cent between 2011 and 2017. The number of non-stunned cattle declined over the same period".

Taking just sheep, this would mean that the 80% figure regularly quoted by various sources for stunned vs unstunned would be about right.  Quoting the number of unstunned sheep is meaningless without know the total sheep population slaughtered. Also articles don't make it clear whether this relates to uk slaughter or includes Lamb slaughtered abroad. We know that the bulk of NZ Lamb is halal.

Any thoughts?   See how I continue to provide you with evidence that suits your agenda that you can't find for yourself.

My other questions remain.....So you don't do any research of your own? - you merely believe (or slag off) what you read on here?

Re my posts, read them all again (there aren't many) and then come back with which bits you don't agree with. I left nothing knowingly out, and have posted loads of stuff that clearly suits you view of things.

Too late Blackbarn sorry too late

We never had that important piece of information until dr crippen told us , I don’t know why .

Well sorry you had plenty of time yesterday to mention this fact and you never did ,
Why not ?

I'd say blackbarn was trying to mislead us by painting a rosy picture to play down the vile practice.

So what is his agenda?

If we had a Religion where the 5 % had to eat hard boiled eggs ,would our CivlibLuv friends step in to make sure the other 95% followed ?

slowly the influence will increase

I'd say blackbarn was trying to mislead us by painting a rosy picture to play down the vile practice.

So what is his agenda?

So we continue to bash halal slaughter practice till what time?
I still don't understand why its so hard to inquire about the issue at the appropriate ministry. I mean you have an issue of halal food made compulsory at schools, and you have an issue of inhumane slaughter happening for over 1400 years(actually way before that). And people think they have a better chance of solving a centuries old issue, but not of solving an issue just recently created by people they actually do have the right and reach to question.

Assuming that blackbarn does indeed have an agenda(let's say he is a muslim trying to justify hala slaughter here). Why do you think he would need to convince you of his agenda? As it happens, he controls the education ministry to an extent that he can enforce halal food in schools and can slaughter unstunned animals at will. Do you think he still needs to convince the sheep that halal slaughter is good? He already has enough power(which is what we are all whining about)

It's hard work reading your posts detraveller.

Can't you make your self clearer using fewer words?

No, that's the best I can express myself in English. Sorry, not my first language.

I see.
Although I feel that English should be everyone's first language.