Russia did not do it??

* Novichok, the fourth generation of poison gas, was made with agrochemicals so that offensive weapons production could more readily be hidden within a legitimate commercial industry, according to U.S. chemical weapons expert Amy Smithson.

* Publications about development and testing of Novichok in the 1990s led to U.S. suspicions that the then USSR had a secret weapons program and did not declare all it had in its stockpile when it joined the OPCW.

The interesting bit  MADE WITH AGROCHEMICALS !!   spooky eh???

donny's post on the other thread makes a valid point. Did Putin do this to send shivers down the spines of some nawty Russians over here?

It would explain the use of a nerve agent and not a knife.

As they sayed on BBC news ,it's all very unnerving

Didn't they invade Afghanastan prior to the 1980 Olympics
Why would it matter where in England he lived, I am sure if the nerve agent can travel from Moscow to England it could travel  from porton down to anywhere in England, even London
They might have seen someone stabbing him I suppose
Why would they give 48m to PD now if it might seem suspicious. Now that's not very clever is it
How does it make May look strong, a british agent has just been murdered
Corbyn ? well he was the one who asked the question, no one else

*sorry attempted murder

defense sectary "tells Russia to go away and shut up". Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh look at you

Nothing like playing fun russian roulette with all of our livelihoods and lives eh. it wont effect them, it'll only effect the average man, woman and child, that's what p***** me off

very well said

the defence secretary of course , I don't know what sontar is whining about

Glad to see some of the better informed posters have challenged this (I would've but don't know enough)
Plenty of unanswered questions,rash decisions and ridiculously aggressive statements from our government as it stands I believe we haven't even followed the International protocols for such an occurrence.

international protocols ? why has it happened before

Britain is I think sending a sample of the nerve agent to the OPCW , the UN
Now I suppose they might send an sample to Putin, what do you think he will say,
I suppose we might believe him, anythings possible

Gavin Williamson was reported as telling them to shut up and go away. quite pathetic really, we have after all accused them of something serious and of course they are going to want answers and proof. what if someone accused you of something serious and they just told you to shut up and go away? like your having no answers you can just accept you did it and that's that.

As far as I know the Russian agents are living safely and comfortably and without fear so in Moscow or somewhere in Russia while ours`are being murdered, that doesn't seem fair to me and warrants at least a few harsh words
I don't think a few harsh words from our defence secretary are too much for the Russians to bear

And it now seems Trump is firmly on board with this what the hell is going on I mean we've had months of none stop russia/trump propaganda. it gets more baffling by the day.

You know, the agents that we exchanged for ours, how are they doing?
I don't know

You see if our agents have to live in fear in England I hope that  their agents have to live in fear in Russia, they deserve it

After all this is England, so our agents were on the side of freedom and good,and and that is Russia and their agents were on the side of dictatorship and evil

So I am glad our defence minister told the Russians to shut up

ok its a little rude, but Russia should not presume on the good nature of the British

I think there's a hidden agenda here. There usually is. Remember WMDs 'regime change' then 'democracy in the middle east'. Never mentioned O I L once. Funny that.

It's most odd.

its bad manners to do so

OIL ive heard everything now

Its like this, America have spent billions in Iraq, money and time and expertise and lives lost due to the stupidity of the Iraqi people
and they do not need any oil from any other country anywhere in the world

I was referencing Iraq...

The point being we should have learned by now to question everything we're told. From dodgy dossiers to Blair moving the goal posts several times, to the Arab Spring bollox to Cameron telling us the removal of Gadaffi was best for Libyans.

would you trust a single one of these politicos

would turn on you as soon as it suits them

only after your vote

What was wrong with the arab spring, do you prefer to see these people live under a dictator involved in murder and terrorism?

The murder of Saddam and removal of Gadaffi is why we have the migrant crisis NOW they knew this would happen back then

I'll sound like a to55pot saying this but I was happier hearing about this stuff 1000's of miles away and not affecting our lives tbh.

that is a problem created by our own politicians, and of course the inability of the people in these countries to behave in a civilised manner
That's their fault, they have to take responsibility, we cannot lead them around like children

lfc - America (imo) went into Iraq to take over the oil industry. Not own it but to remove it from Saddam and make sure good companies from China etc produce as much of it as possible.

Why? To keep prices in dollars.. and to keep prices low. Saddam's handling of the oil industry was chaotic and with him out of the way the plan I think was to make it far more efficient for world markets.

It accounts for 99% of Iraq's revenue..

Look at this Guardian article from 2016: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jul/07/us-and-britain-wrangled-over-iraqs-oil-in-aftermath-of-war-chilcot-shows

Sir David Manning, foreign policy adviser to Tony Blair, told Condoleezza Rice, the US national security adviser, in Washington on 9 December 2002 that Britain still wanted more of the spoils.

“It would be inappropriate for HMG [Her Majesty’s government] to enter into discussions about any future carve-up of the Iraqi oil industry,” he said. “Nonetheless it is essential that our [British] companies are given access to a level playing field in this and other sectors.”

UK government officials called in a team from BP for a briefing about the prospects for the Iraq energy sector on 23 January 2003, two months before the invasion, which ended in May.

So what if America did, and I don't accept they did
The Iraqi people should have begged America to come into Iraq and run its oil industry and government and civil service and schools and hospitals ..
And it would have been good and better, much better, for everyone in Iraq
And yes if it is good for America also, well they would deserve it

Now what have they got, what do they want, freedom? don't worry they would have that as partners of America
Such a terrible shame and waste

Not sure the Arab world would've allowed the White God loving devils pillage their wealth though I think the US would if it was possible

really, and did America pillage Germanys wealth, did they pillage Japans wealth after the war
No these countries had greatest increase in prosperity and freedoms and progress they have ever enjoyed, that was the happy result in those happy countries

Whether people want to admit or not this will not effect the political elite, so they can mouth off freely knowing they ain't getting any of the hard sanctions etc that will end being implemented, they wont suffer on the front lines (if it ever came to that), nah its your daughters and sons that will bare the brunt of it whilst they live in complete luxury with a cigar in their filthy mouths. that goes for the Russian political elite as well not just our lot.

I'm not saying they did but I'm sure what the US have done in the world is for their benefit

I disagree

Why do I disagree , because the evidence is there, and you have only to compare western Europe to eastern Europe under Russia
Or Japan to N. Korea
Take a look at that and open your eyes

I wouldn't disagree that life in Iraq would've been better that is beyond doubt.
The possibility of that ever been the case in an Arab reason is 0

What happened there?? Typing and checking markets at the same time
The possibility of that ever being the case in an Arab region was 0 but I didn't think the US would be involved if there was nothing in it for them.

DenzilPenberthy • March 15, 2018 3:41 PM GMT
Glad to see some of the better informed posters have challenged this (I would've but don't know enough)

They aren't better informed.  They are generally the most easily manipulated, lacking in any critical analysis abilities.

There are only two explanations and Theresa May put them to the Russian government who replied with their usual lies.

i dsagree again, but so what, they don't have to be saints, the American empire is the most benign in history

* disagree with denzil

No problem admittedly I'm generalising a fair bit in this conversation

dave1357 They are better informed than me whatever you think

Dave, I've doubted May and praised Corbyn for raising questions as to her blanket ban on all things Ruski.

Apart from singing the red flag and dating Diane what more do you want?

I couldn't care less who you doubt or praise.

Something not right about this whole bizarre incident in Salisbury. It is a strange coincidence that this chemical attack occurred just 9 miles from the government research facility at Porton Down where coincidently they test certain types of nerve gases - presumably they have to manufacture such toxins in order to develop suitable antidotes for military personel. (Wikepedia
Until 2001 the military installation of Porton Down was part of the UK government's Defence Evaluation and Research Agency (DERA) when it was split into QinetiQ, initially a fully government-owned company, and the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory (Dstl). Dstl incorporates all of DERA's activities deemed unsuitable for the privatisation planned for QinetiQ, particularly Porton Down.

In 2013 Dstl scientists tested samples from Syria for Sarin, which is still manufactured there, to test soldiers' equipment.[1])

Something just doesn't seem right - same with the bizarre 'suicide' of Dr David Kelly. We know politicians lie (or don't actually know what's going on) eg Edward Heath upon taking us into the EEC as it was then - Lying to Parliament and to the British people saying that there would be no loss of sovereignty We know this to be a huge whopper!

you will be declared insane and unpatriotic for saying that ho ho^^

jackanory,jackanory ,    fools

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/15/corbyn-defies-critics-calls-for-calm-over-russia-nerve-agent-attack


This is so like the Falklands(avoidable war) Iraq. Wmd. Dodgy dossier etc. And the lies they have told us about all the excursions into the middle east.
  Anyone with an opposite view is insane.

Anyone remember Cook and Clair Short for an example.

Tony Blair should be in prison with no chance of ever getting out after what he contributed too, same goes for George W Bush, but yet both are multi millionaires living the life of a king. In blairs case he's still got the bloody nerve to show his face on all media platforms and is trying to tell people they made the wrong choice regarding "brexit", even inciting violence, the bloke should be arrested.

Blair is a grade 'A' ****

Oh dear - some news leaking out that the rush to hysteria about Novichok and where it came from has been premature.

It could all be false news but when it comes from a US expert !!??   

Likewise a British expert and people who ACTUALLY worked on it etc etc

Like I said the accusations of insanity may be somewhat questionable now??

mo get a grip ffs.dont look, don't read you fooking moron

The former British ambassador to Uzbekistan, Craig Murray, talking about the destruction of russian chemical weapons,  who visited the site at Nukus, said it had been dismantled with US help. He is among those advocating scepticism about the UK placing blame on Russia.

In a blog post, he wrote: “The same people who assured you Saddam Hussein had WMDs now assure you Russian ‘novichok’ nerve agents are being wielded by Vladimir Putin to attack people on British soil.”
Craig Murray, in a phone interview, is undeterred, determined to challenge the government line, in spite of having been subjected to a level of abuse on social media he had not experienced before.

“There is no evidence it was Russia. I am not ruling out that it could be Russia, though I don’t see the motive. I want to see where the evidence lies,” Murray said. “Anyone who expresses scepticism is seen as an enemy of the state.”

don't  follow sheep,

It seems people far more knowledgeable than me are subjected to personal abuse for raising questions.

thinking is easy people chose not to

Did the USSR/then russia  lose control of any tocsins?  If so it is going to be very embarrassing for russia.  Is that why they are stalling?  Or was it just a hit to frighten others?

Something not right about this whole bizarre incident in Salisbury. It is a strange coincidence that this chemical attack occurred just 9 miles from the government research facility at Porton Down where coincidently they test certain types of nerve gases - presumably they have to manufacture such toxins in order to develop suitable antidotes for military personel.

They were poisoned where they happened to live, nothing strange about that. The proximity of Porton Down is irrelevant to this event.

Jez is our Inside man,  on this Occasion, I go with Jez ..

Some Great Comments regarding Blair on here , the Greatest out come of the Iraq  war would have been him and Saddam thrown into a Pit, to fight till the Death ,winner then given a Life sentence ..

Saddam would probably have parole hearing coming up .

and the russian that was strangled to death. ????

Has any evidence been presented yet?

other than he was strangled to death, on putins " hit list " , no none.   

The rise of chav politics ?

Russian response to May's statement - "who do the UK think they are giving ultimatums to a nuclear superpower?"
British defence minister response to Russians - "Russia can shut up and go away"

The war mongering we've been doing since this happened is laughable that Anger Crudd should hang her head in shame and as for Boris ....

hardly war mongering, sending home a few diplomats.

The language at the start GLASGOW was without a doubt lots of 'Act of War' talk

They enjoy it because its not them or their kids that will suffer the consequences for their war rhetoric. Its about time we sacked the lot of them off to be honest, if they want a war so badly pick up a gun and knock yourselves out. if its sanctions it'll be us that suffer the consequences as well, they wont suffer one bit will they. its amazing the public are allowing these absolute clowns to sound off like this, esp those tory pair Williamson and Johnson, the pair of them wouldn't be seen for the dust if it was going to make them suffer.

correct

Lust for war from those pair is almost as sickening as the american pair mccain and lindsey grahams lust for war.

Excuse me pardon.  But anyone remember a fella called bush and chappie called blair who went to war because of the twin towers??  The evil saddam was harbouring terrorists and promoting terrorism!!!!!   and then they found out about all the WMD.  These tw'ts then sent our very brave special forces dashing all over Iraq trying to find it all and there was nothing. 

any one remember someone going to war on scraps??

they hit the wrong country as far as the twin towers is concerned - most of the terrorists were Saudis!!!

I must see interview on RT ( no wonder the government are so very desperate to close it down) with veteran documentary maker the award winning John Pilger " Skripel case is a carefully constructed drama". I look forward to reading the replies lol

He came to deliver a lecture where he spoke about the vietnam war and politics - suppression of news etc
around 1980 when he did this - I even got to speak to him
very interesting bloke - I don't always agree with him but he is a very good investigator and writes well too

ps I should think he will be blasted  - even an old b.gger like me pipes up and questions the whole incident I get blasted for swallowing the kremlin line ha ha

but then the other side swallow the whole establishment line

funny that

me too me too

top man he is,adament its nothing to do with Russian,i would like to see is some evidence,never evidence anymore just what we are f ing told to belive

not all bad news if the uk boycott the world ,any expelled Russians can use british airways to fly home, ,

sport or big buisnees what shall we boycott ,its a toughie

seens its not the rugger or Henley,we,ll go for sport,

GAS!!!!!!?????   Very clever move to go on the attack Tereason!!  Not!!!  As we shiver in our hovels without any heating
Vlad the Bad turns of the heating ho ho   
joking
Don't forget russia needs capitalism as much as we need some of russia
even though it is a despicable corrupt putin empire
on that basis what is our approach to China and Saudoi
I say let's cut them off too!!!
then where are we!!!???

Of course we are told they have the evidence as some say on here - we have to trust our intelligence

How did that go with Iraq by the way where we trusted our intelligence and the USA's  - or did the politicos ignore it to suit there purpose - at least two ministers resigned over it all as they knew it to be dodgy

ha ha

They wont boycott in my opinion, but we are getting closer to having serious discussions about, I mean bozo is talking like Russia have this "novichok" stockpiled under ground, they don't have a pretend volcano do they? one that opens up and allows aircraft to enter?, Putin sitting there with his best mate (who has the cat). I mean they are making them out to be evil personified, how can they not boycott?

Think we only get 1% of our gas from Russia so we shoudl remain toasty.

Any word from the EU?

Merkel and Macron have spoken but I'd like to hear from the EU itself. Bet they're bricking it! Putin not a fan so I hear...

Sad we don't have a Boycott to open the batting for england these days.  I type like that would give it to the russkies!!!

Don't need the Eu  we have nato - it has kept the peace not as claimed by the EUSSR

with turkey on our side on the right flank argh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They are saying it'll take a minimum of 14 days to "analyse" this nerve agent? do Theresa May and Bozo have special powers then, they blamed Russia for it within a few days, special sniffing skills we can only dream off?

they swapped this guy for another spy which has been the way of things for years,so why would the Russians bump him off and ruin any other spy swap for years to come?

The fact is that someone has been crazy enough to use a very deadly agent on our soil - it may have killed quite a few - but slowly over the years - we don't know - but you can bet this is going to be used politically. 
I hope they will be open about it all but I doubt it and the russians don't trust us so we won't get much out of them either.

yep someone did it but remember we now live in a world where Russia get the blame for everything,maybe because they p1$$ed on the yanks plans for Syria?

moisok - 'it may have killed quite a few'

Not if people follow Govt advice to wash their clothes if they fear contamination. Persil 3 in One? Jasmin or elderflower?

it hasn't killed anyone,the people it targeted are now sharing a hospital with 1000,s of other workers,patients and have been since 2 hrs after they were found, with no risk or chance of risk to anyone, you coudnt sell this norvick deadly nerve agent to iran,iraq,syria etc wrapped up in billion dollar bills

I feel safe now
all I have to do is use persil
thanks for that injera

back in the 60s and early 70s we used to use those awful NBCD suits and rubber gas masks  urgh!!!

1st time   I did say may - oh oooops   MAY WOW!! there's a clash of words and persons!!! ha ha

at least May is now strongman of europe now

barnier etc cowering in a dark corner in brussels oh ha ha   

I am such a wit - I have become a cult

I am on a role

Mar 18, 2018 -- 3:30PM, Injera wrote:

moisok - 'it may have killed quite a few'Not if people follow Govt advice to wash their clothes if they fear contamination. Persil 3 in One? Jasmin or elderflower?

You think a planned attack contaminating the tube and then people carrying the virus throughout london can be thwarted by washing the clothes? I know you were only referring to this particular incident killing more than were targeted, but i'm surprised that in all the russia talk, people still don't realize what a big incident this was for national security.

depends on exactly what happened I suppose,but in the wrong hands heaven help us.G 5 WILL NICE TOO

I'm being sceptical detraveller of the Govt's strange advice to people in Zizzi's where the attack took place.

They told people to wash their clothes. So soap and water removes a nerve agent and flushing it into drains is safe???

It's a strange story and the reaction to it is just plain weird. May was doing a walkabout in Salisbury. She was handed a baby and someone gave her a bunch of flowers.

It is a deadly attack and if they get the evidence it is an attack on a member of NATO.

Russian asked for the proof and guess what!

Sorry Injera, I often don't get the scepticism.

@moisok Is it possible britain staged this so they could prove an attack from Russia on their soil and put pressure on the NATO partners to go to war with Russia? Probably to gain some other benefits like in the Brexit negotiations?

It is something that does play into the hands of the 'we are more secure with the eu' argument!!  But we have NATO.
I can't think that we would ever set up a false flag or tell lies about warlike chemical agents??

Has this ever happended before??

It must be russians coz they are foreigners.

John Pilger shouts BS!