Chit Chat
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They still don't get it, do they. Even after 18 months they just don't get it. All we hear is wild predictions of economic doom and gloom and still they don't know why they have lost the argument and sit on the wrong side of history. I will try and help them by listing the 3 matters in order of importance that influenced my vote. I think I speak for the majority of Brexiteers but would be interested to here from others if they prioritise the same as me.
1. Democracy and self governance.
2. Immigration.
3. The economy.
First and foremost for me we must live in a democratic country where I as a voter can participate in the hiring and firing of the people in power. Given that 28 people select the president for over 500 million people in the EUSSR this is clearly not possible and it comes from and starts from the very top. Unacceptable. When complete no marks like Viviane Reding came to this country and lorded it over us bragging that she and the EUSSR make 75% of our laws this is unacceptable. Although when a Romanian gang robbed her car I thought that was funny. Further facts about the rampant expense fiddling, books never signed off, a parliament that acts simply as a rubber stamp, etc etc simply confirm that the EUSSR is not a democracy and things will only get worse.
Next, the negative effect of immigration to the working class is massive. It is us that feel and see the crime some of them bring. It is us that have our schools and hospitals bursting at the seams therefore lowering our quality of life whilst the wealthy go to private schools and hospitals. It is our children that have to attend schools with too many kids in each class and standards falling whilst the wealthy send their kids private. It is our wages that are driven down by a massive influx of cheap labour whilst the wealthy benefit from that very thing. It is our housing that increases in price as demand goes through the roof and supply doesn't. Unacceptable. Controlled and selective immigration we welcome - an open free for all we do not.
And finally, the economy. And this is where Remainiacs went and are going wrong. As they will not discuss the first 2 issues because they have no plausible argument they retreat to engaging project fear on the least important issue. Sure they sometimes say it's 'pooled sovereignty' but we all know that's bollux - so do they. They sometimes say 'immigration benefits the country' but the working class know that's bollux too - so do they. So all they are left with are wild predictions of gloom which thus far have failed to materialise. The point is, we, the mighty and noble Brexiteers wouldn't care if they were true and if they did come to fruition. Whatever the price may be we will pay it for the first two points. That's what they just don't get so they plough on regardless with their crazy predictions.
If they could engage with the first two points in any meaningful way they would. But they can't, so they don't. And that's why they lost and will continue to lose.
1. Democracy and self governance.
2. Immigration.
3. The economy.
First and foremost for me we must live in a democratic country where I as a voter can participate in the hiring and firing of the people in power. Given that 28 people select the president for over 500 million people in the EUSSR this is clearly not possible and it comes from and starts from the very top. Unacceptable. When complete no marks like Viviane Reding came to this country and lorded it over us bragging that she and the EUSSR make 75% of our laws this is unacceptable. Although when a Romanian gang robbed her car I thought that was funny. Further facts about the rampant expense fiddling, books never signed off, a parliament that acts simply as a rubber stamp, etc etc simply confirm that the EUSSR is not a democracy and things will only get worse.
Next, the negative effect of immigration to the working class is massive. It is us that feel and see the crime some of them bring. It is us that have our schools and hospitals bursting at the seams therefore lowering our quality of life whilst the wealthy go to private schools and hospitals. It is our children that have to attend schools with too many kids in each class and standards falling whilst the wealthy send their kids private. It is our wages that are driven down by a massive influx of cheap labour whilst the wealthy benefit from that very thing. It is our housing that increases in price as demand goes through the roof and supply doesn't. Unacceptable. Controlled and selective immigration we welcome - an open free for all we do not.
And finally, the economy. And this is where Remainiacs went and are going wrong. As they will not discuss the first 2 issues because they have no plausible argument they retreat to engaging project fear on the least important issue. Sure they sometimes say it's 'pooled sovereignty' but we all know that's bollux - so do they. They sometimes say 'immigration benefits the country' but the working class know that's bollux too - so do they. So all they are left with are wild predictions of gloom which thus far have failed to materialise. The point is, we, the mighty and noble Brexiteers wouldn't care if they were true and if they did come to fruition. Whatever the price may be we will pay it for the first two points. That's what they just don't get so they plough on regardless with their crazy predictions.
If they could engage with the first two points in any meaningful way they would. But they can't, so they don't. And that's why they lost and will continue to lose.
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Can I just clarify point 3.
You're saying the "Remainiacs" are getting it wrong in predicting doom and gloom. But your response is so what, it's worth it to get rid of the foreigners and have our (unelected) House of Lords decide our laws instead? Thanks in advance. |
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Wrong PP,
His response is ''even if it were true we wouldn't care.'' Which is not conceding that it is true, as you are trying to suggest. |
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PP another bitter snowflake
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House of Lords can only ever try to delay or suggest revisions of laws.
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I thought Brexit was in the future?
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These Remainiacs never disappoint do they. I say 'Controlled and selective immigration we welcome - an open free for all we do not.' They twist and spin that into ' get rid of the foreigners'. This is the cry wolf of the past 2 decades, if they know they have no argument ( and they do know it ) then they go for the smear - 'Ohhhhhh rayyyccciiiissssttttttt' Ohhhh xxxxeennnnnooopphhoobbeee'. Your cry wolf is done, it's a busted flush. Nobody is listening to it anymore. This cowardly implication that you make to the 17.4 million mighty and noble Brexiteers is desperate nonsense.
Try having a stab at the first 2 points. For once. |
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Exactly Burt06...Immigration totally ignored by the remainers as if its a nasty pong.All you ever get from the other side is the economic argument and THAT is an unknown quantity so what is the point in debating the unknown.Immigration and its NEGATIVE impact on the other hand we DO know about.
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PorP appears to believe that the House of Lords can decide our laws. One wonders how he could possibly believe that.
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Exactly, kincsem - It hasn't happened yet!
The thing I don't understand is why the people who agree with the vote which won the day and got what they wanted, never stop going on about it. Bleating on about "remoaners" and how anyone (yet again) who could have an opposing view is a "snowflake". It doesn't matter what the remain voters say, the UK is leaving the EU. Why keep making arguments about it? Even this thread was started in this way. |
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EVERY indicator has gone the wrong way for the eu propaganists
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The thing I don't understand is why the people who agree with the vote which won the day and got what they wanted, never stop going on about it. What?!?! We have a nutter on politics that has started over 130 anti Brexit threads and you say that?!?! Ffs, the rest of us were so concerned about him we even discussed a whip round to get him some help. Unbl. |
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I cannot remove anyone from this forum as - it is a democratic right. Which is what you want?
So everyone has the right. Sure you agree. |
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What are you talking about?
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Burt, can't help but notice you picked up a clause and ran with it rather than answer my point.
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Your 'point' has been answered. I think even a blind man could see that.
You, however, have failed to answer the other points. As usual. |
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Burt gets SF's measure in extra quick time!
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calling farage racist when he is
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That's faragist! Ex UKIP leaders is a small minority group, and I think that's a hate crime.
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(Mind you, a group getting larger at an alarming rate)
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but Burt, I asked you.
You haven't answered. You posted a fairly long opening post, spelling out each of the areas that Remainers got it wrong. I've just asked you to explain part of it. All I've had since is either ignoring it, asking me to answer the first two beforehand or hiding behind other posters. I'll do you a deal. You give a direct answer to my original question and I'll spell out why I think you're wrong about the first two points. Two for one. Can't say fairer than that. The point is, we, the mighty and noble Brexiteers wouldn't care if they were true and if they did come to fruition. Whatever the price may be we will pay it for the first two points. To reiterate, are you saying there very well may be doom and gloom (just as those nasty Remainiacs have been saying all along) but it'll be worth it because of self governance and immigration? Two for one deal. Two for one. Come on. Be brave big fella. |
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I think that has been the case through history , there was a great British general in India who noted that the strange thing about people is that they prefer to be governed badly by themselves than well by other people
That is why people seek independence I don't see why British people should be any different |
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There's a statue of him in Trafalgar Square , I forget his name
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so that may or may not answer your question pineapple to your satisfaction
It does to me |
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It was general Charles James Napier :
So perverse is mankind that every nationality prefers to be misgoverned by its own people than to be well ruled by another " He was a very clever man |
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Of course that applies even more so if people feel they are being badly ruled
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To reiterate, are you saying there very well may be doom and gloom (just as those nasty Remainiacs have been saying all along) but it'll be worth it because of self governance and immigration? I am saying what I have already said. The doom and gloom predictions ( immediate recession, emergency budget, etc etc ) have not materialised. They were clearly project fear nonsense. I do not believe the predicted catastrophe will happen, I believe we will adapt and prosper once free of the EUSSR as we always have. I am not a fortune teller, the possibility that I am wrong of course exists. Nobody knows for sure what will happen. If there is any financial price to pay I have no problem paying it. I would have thought this was clear from my opening post but you seem to be struggling to comprehend. I don't see how I can make the points any simpler for you. |
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Your patience does you great credit Burt imo.
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Never has such a Large % of a Population Been filled with such Bitterness and Seethe ,As for trumpton Night I would imagines Thousands of them spent the Night Vomitting
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unitedbiscuits Joined: 27 Jan 02
So, given the choice between a forward looking EU and a backward UK harking after a colonial past, I hope the EU wins And there you have the typical Remainiac view. They hope the EUSSR wins. What does that make them?  |
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The losing team won't accept the result and want a replay.
They have been putting obstacles in the way and holding up the presentation ceremony. The crowd is becoming restless and wants them the get on with it. The Queen is waiting patiently with the cup, ribbons already tied. The chairman of the FA says to her "Can you come back next week" To be continued... |
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Studyform seems to have an almost uncanny ability to get things wrong
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Studyform's cup final post has gone.
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That's a reasonable response, foinavon.
I suppose it's a question of seeing what we want to again. If we take the easy journalism out of it - and the desire of the press to keep the pot boiling. I can't honestly say I've noticed any of the above. Surely it's up to the govt to get on with it? They're in power, they said they would and it doesn't matter what anyone says, it's a done deal. The other teams supporters can't take the cup back can they? |
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The other teams supporters can't take the cup back can they?
Only if they can persuade the FA to agree a replay and their team win it. As you say, it's up to the government to get on with it but the EU (who are in league with remain) are refusing to talk about what really matters to us. This gives reason for remain politicians to criticise the government's performance (unfairly in my view). The way to focus attention is to say that is there is no progress within a month, we leave with no deal and we pay them nothing, and mean it. I saw absolutely nothing wrong with your cup final post, btw, and it is a mystery to me why it should have been deleted. If someone other than the moderators is able to delete posts then that is a serious hack which should be investigated. |
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Something sinister happening with the removal of SFs cup final post, given that Foinavons
clever reply is still there!! In a similar vein, Tony Blair has asked for VAR to be bought in to future referendums. He claims that the original Brexit vote was definitely offside! |
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I've lost so many posts - even one about sweets!!! mostly meaningless and not political, nor offensive.
Something isn't right. mmm - cheeky fecker  |
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I notice the troll Burt has quoted me on this thread.
1) Freedom and democracy. Well I've not noticed it's absence for forty five years. They make rules against fake goods and the use of flammable building materials? Good. When you ask a Leaver for a tangible example of how the EU has hurt him, the usual reply is being denied something abstract like, "governing ourselves." Does that apply to Scotland, Wales and N Ireland too? Or are those countries still to be ruled from Westminster after we exit? Is it still the Conservative and Unionist Party? Brexit is taking back control to the extent that you are one voice in sixty-million rather than one in six-hundred million. Bet you're already feeling empowered. 2) Immigration. The outgoing German ambassador mentioned something interesting - he has seen figures showing that EU migration here is now equalising as European economies pick up. Once you Leavers have convinced all the EU nurses, plumbers and cleaners that they're really not welcome here, and they go home, this country is going to have to back-fill the shortage with acceleration migration from the UK's top-four non-EU labour supply countries: they are Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and Nigeria. The numbers of migrants overall may change slightly, their visibility will certainly increase. 3) Today's leaked government study states that any kind of Brexit involves the UK falling behind over a fifteen year period. Extrapolate that disadvantage for another fifteen years and today's children will be the "Inselaffen", the personification of the "sick man of Europe," again. When Burt says that he is prepared to pay that economic price, what the cretin means is that he is prepared for your children to pay that price. |
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1) We elect our representatives in Westminster whether we happen to be English, Scots, Welsh or Northern Irish. They rely on our votes for their jobs.
We do not elect members of the European Council, they are appointed. I am also concerned about the modern tendency to refer difficult questions to a panel of judges who also are appointed not elected but that's another story, Gina. 2)No-one is being asked to leave, the Government has said all are welcome to stay. EC citizens will be able to apply for jobs and residence in this country after Brexit on no worse terms than anyone else. 3)I don't trust economic forecasts one year ahead let alone 15 years, it's pure speculation. How many economists predicted the crash of 2008? They were wrong about the post referendum economy, there is every reason the believe they will be wrong again. |
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I think post-referendum is not necessarily the same as post-brexit.
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