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They still don't get it, do they. Even after 18 months they just don't get it. All we hear is wild predictions of economic doom and gloom and still they don't know why they have lost the argument and sit on the wrong side of history. I will try and help them by listing the 3 matters in order of importance that influenced my vote. I think I speak for the majority of Brexiteers but would be interested to here from others if they prioritise the same as me.
1. Democracy and self governance.
2. Immigration.
3. The economy.
First and foremost for me we must live in a democratic country where I as a voter can participate in the hiring and firing of the people in power. Given that 28 people select the president for over 500 million people in the EUSSR this is clearly not possible and it comes from and starts from the very top. Unacceptable. When complete no marks like Viviane Reding came to this country and lorded it over us bragging that she and the EUSSR make 75% of our laws this is unacceptable. Although when a Romanian gang robbed her car I thought that was funny. Further facts about the rampant expense fiddling, books never signed off, a parliament that acts simply as a rubber stamp, etc etc simply confirm that the EUSSR is not a democracy and things will only get worse.
Next, the negative effect of immigration to the working class is massive. It is us that feel and see the crime some of them bring. It is us that have our schools and hospitals bursting at the seams therefore lowering our quality of life whilst the wealthy go to private schools and hospitals. It is our children that have to attend schools with too many kids in each class and standards falling whilst the wealthy send their kids private. It is our wages that are driven down by a massive influx of cheap labour whilst the wealthy benefit from that very thing. It is our housing that increases in price as demand goes through the roof and supply doesn't. Unacceptable. Controlled and selective immigration we welcome - an open free for all we do not.
And finally, the economy. And this is where Remainiacs went and are going wrong. As they will not discuss the first 2 issues because they have no plausible argument they retreat to engaging project fear on the least important issue. Sure they sometimes say it's 'pooled sovereignty' but we all know that's bollux - so do they. They sometimes say 'immigration benefits the country' but the working class know that's bollux too - so do they. So all they are left with are wild predictions of gloom which thus far have failed to materialise. The point is, we, the mighty and noble Brexiteers wouldn't care if they were true and if they did come to fruition. Whatever the price may be we will pay it for the first two points. That's what they just don't get so they plough on regardless with their crazy predictions.
If they could engage with the first two points in any meaningful way they would. But they can't, so they don't. And that's why they lost and will continue to lose.
1. Democracy and self governance.
2. Immigration.
3. The economy.
First and foremost for me we must live in a democratic country where I as a voter can participate in the hiring and firing of the people in power. Given that 28 people select the president for over 500 million people in the EUSSR this is clearly not possible and it comes from and starts from the very top. Unacceptable. When complete no marks like Viviane Reding came to this country and lorded it over us bragging that she and the EUSSR make 75% of our laws this is unacceptable. Although when a Romanian gang robbed her car I thought that was funny. Further facts about the rampant expense fiddling, books never signed off, a parliament that acts simply as a rubber stamp, etc etc simply confirm that the EUSSR is not a democracy and things will only get worse.
Next, the negative effect of immigration to the working class is massive. It is us that feel and see the crime some of them bring. It is us that have our schools and hospitals bursting at the seams therefore lowering our quality of life whilst the wealthy go to private schools and hospitals. It is our children that have to attend schools with too many kids in each class and standards falling whilst the wealthy send their kids private. It is our wages that are driven down by a massive influx of cheap labour whilst the wealthy benefit from that very thing. It is our housing that increases in price as demand goes through the roof and supply doesn't. Unacceptable. Controlled and selective immigration we welcome - an open free for all we do not.
And finally, the economy. And this is where Remainiacs went and are going wrong. As they will not discuss the first 2 issues because they have no plausible argument they retreat to engaging project fear on the least important issue. Sure they sometimes say it's 'pooled sovereignty' but we all know that's bollux - so do they. They sometimes say 'immigration benefits the country' but the working class know that's bollux too - so do they. So all they are left with are wild predictions of gloom which thus far have failed to materialise. The point is, we, the mighty and noble Brexiteers wouldn't care if they were true and if they did come to fruition. Whatever the price may be we will pay it for the first two points. That's what they just don't get so they plough on regardless with their crazy predictions.
If they could engage with the first two points in any meaningful way they would. But they can't, so they don't. And that's why they lost and will continue to lose.
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Can I just clarify point 3.
You're saying the "Remainiacs" are getting it wrong in predicting doom and gloom. But your response is so what, it's worth it to get rid of the foreigners and have our (unelected) House of Lords decide our laws instead?
Thanks in advance.
You're saying the "Remainiacs" are getting it wrong in predicting doom and gloom. But your response is so what, it's worth it to get rid of the foreigners and have our (unelected) House of Lords decide our laws instead?
Thanks in advance.
Wrong PP,
His response is ''even if it were true we wouldn't care.''
Which is not conceding that it is true, as you are trying to suggest.
His response is ''even if it were true we wouldn't care.''
Which is not conceding that it is true, as you are trying to suggest.
House of Lords can only ever try to delay or suggest revisions of laws.
These Remainiacs never disappoint do they. I say 'Controlled and selective immigration we welcome - an open free for all we do not.' They twist and spin that into ' get rid of the foreigners'. This is the cry wolf of the past 2 decades, if they know they have no argument ( and they do know it ) then they go for the smear - 'Ohhhhhh rayyyccciiiissssttttttt' Ohhhh xxxxeennnnnooopphhoobbeee'. Your cry wolf is done, it's a busted flush. Nobody is listening to it anymore. This cowardly implication that you make to the 17.4 million mighty and noble Brexiteers is desperate nonsense.
Try having a stab at the first 2 points. For once.
Try having a stab at the first 2 points. For once.
Exactly Burt06...Immigration totally ignored by the remainers as if its a nasty pong.All you ever get from the other side is the economic argument and THAT is an unknown quantity so what is the point in debating the unknown.Immigration and its NEGATIVE impact on the other hand we DO know about.
PorP appears to believe that the House of Lords can decide our laws. One wonders how he could possibly believe that.
Exactly, kincsem - It hasn't happened yet!
The thing I don't understand is why the people who agree with the vote which won the day and got what they wanted, never stop going on about it.
Bleating on about "remoaners" and how anyone (yet again) who could have an opposing view is a "snowflake".
It doesn't matter what the remain voters say, the UK is leaving the EU. Why keep making arguments about it?
Even this thread was started in this way.
The thing I don't understand is why the people who agree with the vote which won the day and got what they wanted, never stop going on about it.
Bleating on about "remoaners" and how anyone (yet again) who could have an opposing view is a "snowflake".
It doesn't matter what the remain voters say, the UK is leaving the EU. Why keep making arguments about it?
Even this thread was started in this way.
EVERY indicator has gone the wrong way for the eu propaganists
The thing I don't understand is why the people who agree with the vote which won the day and got what they wanted, never stop going on about it.
What?!?!
We have a nutter on politics that has started over 130 anti Brexit threads and you say that?!?!
Ffs, the rest of us were so concerned about him we even discussed a whip round to get him some help.
Unbl.
I cannot remove anyone from this forum as - it is a democratic right. Which is what you want?
So everyone has the right.
Sure you agree.
So everyone has the right.
Sure you agree.
Burt, can't help but notice you picked up a clause and ran with it rather than answer my point.
Your 'point' has been answered. I think even a blind man could see that.
You, however, have failed to answer the other points. As usual.
You, however, have failed to answer the other points. As usual.
That's faragist! Ex UKIP leaders is a small minority group, and I think that's a hate crime.
(Mind you, a group getting larger at an alarming rate)
but Burt, I asked you.
You haven't answered.
You posted a fairly long opening post, spelling out each of the areas that Remainers got it wrong.
I've just asked you to explain part of it.
All I've had since is either ignoring it, asking me to answer the first two beforehand or hiding behind other posters.
I'll do you a deal. You give a direct answer to my original question and I'll spell out why I think you're wrong about the first two points. Two for one. Can't say fairer than that.
The point is, we, the mighty and noble Brexiteers wouldn't care if they were true and if they did come to fruition. Whatever the price may be we will pay it for the first two points.
To reiterate, are you saying there very well may be doom and gloom (just as those nasty Remainiacs have been saying all along) but it'll be worth it because of self governance and immigration?
Two for one deal. Two for one. Come on. Be brave big fella.
You haven't answered.
You posted a fairly long opening post, spelling out each of the areas that Remainers got it wrong.
I've just asked you to explain part of it.
All I've had since is either ignoring it, asking me to answer the first two beforehand or hiding behind other posters.
I'll do you a deal. You give a direct answer to my original question and I'll spell out why I think you're wrong about the first two points. Two for one. Can't say fairer than that.
The point is, we, the mighty and noble Brexiteers wouldn't care if they were true and if they did come to fruition. Whatever the price may be we will pay it for the first two points.
To reiterate, are you saying there very well may be doom and gloom (just as those nasty Remainiacs have been saying all along) but it'll be worth it because of self governance and immigration?
Two for one deal. Two for one. Come on. Be brave big fella.
I think that has been the case through history , there was a great British general in India who noted that the strange thing about people is that they prefer to be governed badly by themselves than well by other people
That is why people seek independence I don't see why British people should be any different
That is why people seek independence I don't see why British people should be any different
There's a statue of him in Trafalgar Square , I forget his name
so that may or may not answer your question pineapple to your satisfaction
It does to me
It does to me
It was general Charles James Napier :
So perverse is mankind that every nationality prefers to be misgoverned by its own people than to be well ruled by another "
He was a very clever man
So perverse is mankind that every nationality prefers to be misgoverned by its own people than to be well ruled by another "
He was a very clever man
Of course that applies even more so if people feel they are being badly ruled
To reiterate, are you saying there very well may be doom and gloom (just as those nasty Remainiacs have been saying all along) but it'll be worth it because of self governance and immigration?
I am saying what I have already said. The doom and gloom predictions ( immediate recession, emergency budget, etc etc ) have not materialised. They were clearly project fear nonsense. I do not believe the predicted catastrophe will happen, I believe we will adapt and prosper once free of the EUSSR as we always have. I am not a fortune teller, the possibility that I am wrong of course exists. Nobody knows for sure what will happen. If there is any financial price to pay I have no problem paying it. I would have thought this was clear from my opening post but you seem to be struggling to comprehend. I don't see how I can make the points any simpler for you.
Never has such a Large % of a Population Been filled with such Bitterness and Seethe ,As for trumpton Night I would imagines Thousands of them spent the Night Vomitting
unitedbiscuits Joined: 27 Jan 02
So, given the choice between a forward looking EU and a backward UK harking after a colonial past, I hope the EU wins
And there you have the typical Remainiac view. They hope the EUSSR wins.
What does that make them?
So, given the choice between a forward looking EU and a backward UK harking after a colonial past, I hope the EU wins
And there you have the typical Remainiac view. They hope the EUSSR wins.
What does that make them?
The losing team won't accept the result and want a replay.
They have been putting obstacles in the way and holding up the presentation ceremony.
The crowd is becoming restless and wants them the get on with it.
The Queen is waiting patiently with the cup, ribbons already tied.
The chairman of the FA says to her "Can you come back next week"
To be continued...
They have been putting obstacles in the way and holding up the presentation ceremony.
The crowd is becoming restless and wants them the get on with it.
The Queen is waiting patiently with the cup, ribbons already tied.
The chairman of the FA says to her "Can you come back next week"
To be continued...
Studyform seems to have an almost uncanny ability to get things wrong
That's a reasonable response, foinavon.
I suppose it's a question of seeing what we want to again.
If we take the easy journalism out of it - and the desire of the press to keep the pot boiling.
I can't honestly say I've noticed any of the above.
Surely it's up to the govt to get on with it? They're in power, they said they would and it doesn't matter what anyone says, it's a done deal.
The other teams supporters can't take the cup back can they?
I suppose it's a question of seeing what we want to again.
If we take the easy journalism out of it - and the desire of the press to keep the pot boiling.
I can't honestly say I've noticed any of the above.
Surely it's up to the govt to get on with it? They're in power, they said they would and it doesn't matter what anyone says, it's a done deal.
The other teams supporters can't take the cup back can they?
The other teams supporters can't take the cup back can they?
Only if they can persuade the FA to agree a replay and their team win it.
As you say, it's up to the government to get on with it but the EU (who are in league with remain) are refusing to talk about what really matters to us. This gives reason for remain politicians to criticise the government's performance (unfairly in my view). The way to focus attention is to say that is there is no progress within a month, we leave with no deal and we pay them nothing, and mean it.
I saw absolutely nothing wrong with your cup final post, btw, and it is a mystery to me why it should have been deleted. If someone other than the moderators is able to delete posts then that is a serious hack which should be investigated.
Only if they can persuade the FA to agree a replay and their team win it.
As you say, it's up to the government to get on with it but the EU (who are in league with remain) are refusing to talk about what really matters to us. This gives reason for remain politicians to criticise the government's performance (unfairly in my view). The way to focus attention is to say that is there is no progress within a month, we leave with no deal and we pay them nothing, and mean it.
I saw absolutely nothing wrong with your cup final post, btw, and it is a mystery to me why it should have been deleted. If someone other than the moderators is able to delete posts then that is a serious hack which should be investigated.
Something sinister happening with the removal of SFs cup final post, given that Foinavons
clever reply is still there!!
In a similar vein, Tony Blair has asked for VAR to be bought in to future referendums.
He claims that the original Brexit vote was definitely offside!
clever reply is still there!!
In a similar vein, Tony Blair has asked for VAR to be bought in to future referendums.
He claims that the original Brexit vote was definitely offside!
I've lost so many posts - even one about sweets!!! mostly meaningless and not political, nor offensive.
Something isn't right.
mmm - cheeky fecker
Something isn't right.
mmm - cheeky fecker
I notice the troll Burt has quoted me on this thread.
1) Freedom and democracy. Well I've not noticed it's absence for forty five years. They make rules against fake goods and the use of flammable building materials? Good. When you ask a Leaver for a tangible example of how the EU has hurt him, the usual reply is being denied something abstract like, "governing ourselves." Does that apply to Scotland, Wales and N Ireland too? Or are those countries still to be ruled from Westminster after we exit? Is it still the Conservative and Unionist Party? Brexit is taking back control to the extent that you are one voice in sixty-million rather than one in six-hundred million. Bet you're already feeling empowered.
2) Immigration. The outgoing German ambassador mentioned something interesting - he has seen figures showing that EU migration here is now equalising as European economies pick up. Once you Leavers have convinced all the EU nurses, plumbers and cleaners that they're really not welcome here, and they go home, this country is going to have to back-fill the shortage with acceleration migration from the UK's top-four non-EU labour supply countries: they are Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and Nigeria. The numbers of migrants overall may change slightly, their visibility will certainly increase.
3) Today's leaked government study states that any kind of Brexit involves the UK falling behind over a fifteen year period. Extrapolate that disadvantage for another fifteen years and today's children will be the "Inselaffen", the personification of the "sick man of Europe," again.
When Burt says that he is prepared to pay that economic price, what the cretin means is that he is prepared for your children to pay that price.
1) Freedom and democracy. Well I've not noticed it's absence for forty five years. They make rules against fake goods and the use of flammable building materials? Good. When you ask a Leaver for a tangible example of how the EU has hurt him, the usual reply is being denied something abstract like, "governing ourselves." Does that apply to Scotland, Wales and N Ireland too? Or are those countries still to be ruled from Westminster after we exit? Is it still the Conservative and Unionist Party? Brexit is taking back control to the extent that you are one voice in sixty-million rather than one in six-hundred million. Bet you're already feeling empowered.
2) Immigration. The outgoing German ambassador mentioned something interesting - he has seen figures showing that EU migration here is now equalising as European economies pick up. Once you Leavers have convinced all the EU nurses, plumbers and cleaners that they're really not welcome here, and they go home, this country is going to have to back-fill the shortage with acceleration migration from the UK's top-four non-EU labour supply countries: they are Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and Nigeria. The numbers of migrants overall may change slightly, their visibility will certainly increase.
3) Today's leaked government study states that any kind of Brexit involves the UK falling behind over a fifteen year period. Extrapolate that disadvantage for another fifteen years and today's children will be the "Inselaffen", the personification of the "sick man of Europe," again.
When Burt says that he is prepared to pay that economic price, what the cretin means is that he is prepared for your children to pay that price.
1) We elect our representatives in Westminster whether we happen to be English, Scots, Welsh or Northern Irish. They rely on our votes for their jobs.
We do not elect members of the European Council, they are appointed. I am also concerned about the modern tendency to refer difficult questions to a panel of judges who also are appointed not elected but that's another story, Gina.
2)No-one is being asked to leave, the Government has said all are welcome to stay. EC citizens will be able to apply for jobs and residence in this country after Brexit on no worse terms than anyone else.
3)I don't trust economic forecasts one year ahead let alone 15 years, it's pure speculation. How many economists predicted the crash of 2008? They were wrong about the post referendum economy, there is every reason the believe they will be wrong again.
We do not elect members of the European Council, they are appointed. I am also concerned about the modern tendency to refer difficult questions to a panel of judges who also are appointed not elected but that's another story, Gina.
2)No-one is being asked to leave, the Government has said all are welcome to stay. EC citizens will be able to apply for jobs and residence in this country after Brexit on no worse terms than anyone else.
3)I don't trust economic forecasts one year ahead let alone 15 years, it's pure speculation. How many economists predicted the crash of 2008? They were wrong about the post referendum economy, there is every reason the believe they will be wrong again.
I think post-referendum is not necessarily the same as post-brexit.
Agreed, but some people who should have known better predicted dire economic woes immediately after the vote should we vote leave. Those people included the then Chancellor of the Exchequer and the Governor of the Bank of England who one assumes are in possession of expert opinion and analysis.
all the doom sayers have got every single pronouncement wrong EVERY time
hope this helps
hope this helps
I'm shocked that none of the remainers, globalists groups have not predicted we could be better off. 
I notice the troll Burt has quoted me on this thread.
When Burt says that he is prepared to pay that economic price, what the cretin means is that he is prepared for your children to pay that price.
Name calling. That's pretty much all they have left. Keyboard warriors on a web site, that's all they are. Not boo to a goose would they say toe to toe.
And for the record, in years to come, our children will greet the 17.4 million mighty and noble Brexiteers on one knee with cap doffed thanking us for saving us from that despicable club of gallactico corrupto's over the channel.
Quislings like Brokenbiscuit will still be doing their best impression of Japanese soldiers from the jungle. Poor saps.
Although we should go easy on Biscuitbrain as he was 'full bank' on Remain as it 'couldn't lose'.
Don't worry, Biscuit, I invested your wonga very wisley in PM's. Cheers.
Don't worry, Biscuit, I invested your wonga very wisley in PM's. Cheers.
Don't worry, Biscuit, I invested your wonga very wisley
So wisely Burt deleted the link
"how much do you want to buy at 1.08?"
"thank me on the 9th."
So wisely Burt deleted the link
"how much do you want to buy at 1.08?"
"thank me on the 9th."
He's got some front old Biscuitbrain. The thread where he 'wholeheartedly' agreed with Farage there could be no second referendum - deleted.
The thread where he claimed house prices were doomed, despite the fact they are now at record levels - deleted.
I didn't realise you went 'full bank' at 1.08, I thought you would have got a better price than that. Not that it matters, a loser is a loser, regardless of the price.
Didn't have anything on Trump, Fv, not a market I got involved in.
I think Biscuit would have got in deep with Hilary had he not been 'full bank' on Remain though.
Just remember, Biscuit, on your knees, cap doffed.
The thread where he claimed house prices were doomed, despite the fact they are now at record levels - deleted.
I didn't realise you went 'full bank' at 1.08, I thought you would have got a better price than that. Not that it matters, a loser is a loser, regardless of the price.
Didn't have anything on Trump, Fv, not a market I got involved in.
I think Biscuit would have got in deep with Hilary had he not been 'full bank' on Remain though.
Just remember, Biscuit, on your knees, cap doffed.
Some of us are not happy, KoD. We should be leaving this June not hanging on to beyond 2020.
Cameron didn't keep his promise to action Article 50 when the result was known, instead he skulked away like the coward he is. Also the Civil Service made no provision for the Brexit option. They smugly believed their propaganda machine would deliver the result they wanted. May has been left to pick up the pieces, it's most unsatisfactory.
Cameron didn't keep his promise to action Article 50 when the result was known, instead he skulked away like the coward he is. Also the Civil Service made no provision for the Brexit option. They smugly believed their propaganda machine would deliver the result they wanted. May has been left to pick up the pieces, it's most unsatisfactory.
First of all, I voted leave. The more I read, the less confidence I have that this will be for the best.
Talk of “predicted dire economic woes” being well off the mark are very premature. Growth in the UK has slowed, sterling has fallen significantly against the euro and inflation has gone up. All this and we are not even out yet.
Our prime minister is so weak, she cannot tell the EU what we want (if she even knows!), for fear of her own party ousting her. Theresa May and David Davis have hardly covered himself in glory. He gave in on “the row of the summer” over the sequence of talks on the first day of Brexit talks. They did not initially recognise the need for a transition or acknowledge the possibility of EU obligations lasting beyond Brexit day. In April, Mrs May told the EU that, after Brexit, Britain had no legal obligation to cover financial liabilities accrued by the bloc. (Gave in in November). They said “London’s initial position was that UK law was sufficient to guarantee the rights of 3m EU nationals in Britain.” Now we are enshrining some EU law.
We agreed to stump up 40 to 60 billion, yet we have not got a transition deal yet. While we are likely to get a trade deal after the transition deal, assuming we get one, a significant part of financial services are likely to be excluded, weakening the city & causing a signifcant reduction of our tax take.
As for the suggestions of WTO rules to fall back on, WTO rules do not apply to services, so the city would be significantly weakened.
All in all, it looks like a disaster.
Talk of “predicted dire economic woes” being well off the mark are very premature. Growth in the UK has slowed, sterling has fallen significantly against the euro and inflation has gone up. All this and we are not even out yet.
Our prime minister is so weak, she cannot tell the EU what we want (if she even knows!), for fear of her own party ousting her. Theresa May and David Davis have hardly covered himself in glory. He gave in on “the row of the summer” over the sequence of talks on the first day of Brexit talks. They did not initially recognise the need for a transition or acknowledge the possibility of EU obligations lasting beyond Brexit day. In April, Mrs May told the EU that, after Brexit, Britain had no legal obligation to cover financial liabilities accrued by the bloc. (Gave in in November). They said “London’s initial position was that UK law was sufficient to guarantee the rights of 3m EU nationals in Britain.” Now we are enshrining some EU law.
We agreed to stump up 40 to 60 billion, yet we have not got a transition deal yet. While we are likely to get a trade deal after the transition deal, assuming we get one, a significant part of financial services are likely to be excluded, weakening the city & causing a signifcant reduction of our tax take.
As for the suggestions of WTO rules to fall back on, WTO rules do not apply to services, so the city would be significantly weakened.
All in all, it looks like a disaster.
so the propaganda assault is working eh? But it is what they want you to believe - they are trying to sabotage it all - obviously.
Growth in the UK has slowed, sterling has fallen significantly against the euro and inflation has gone up. All this and we are not even out yet.
None of the above is propoganda
None of the above is propoganda
sorry to spoil you fun but I thought the pound was up - perhaps I am reading the wrong newspeak - apologies ha ha ha
ps every economic guess from all the institutions has been wrong, over inflated, exaggerated etc etc - the imf, oecd, bank of england and the rest -ALL wrong all doom laden -
ps every economic guess from all the institutions has been wrong, over inflated, exaggerated etc etc - the imf, oecd, bank of england and the rest -ALL wrong all doom laden -
Anything that opposes anyone's beliefs on this subject is always propaganda.
Which is why very few people (who are interested in it) change their views.
Also, as has been written on here, loads of times, it hasn't happened yet!
Which is why very few people (who are interested in it) change their views.
Also, as has been written on here, loads of times, it hasn't happened yet!
We are down ca 21% against the Euro since just before the referendum (£1 gets you 1.14 today, 1.45 prior to the referendum.
On a trade weighted basis
23 June 2016 87.763 Today 79.926, that's 8.9% DOWN
https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/bank-of-england-spot/historical-effective-exchange-rates/GBP-history
You were noticing the US dollar decline
http://money.cnn.com/2018/01/15/investing/weak-dollar/index.html
On a trade weighted basis
23 June 2016 87.763 Today 79.926, that's 8.9% DOWN
https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/bank-of-england-spot/historical-effective-exchange-rates/GBP-history
You were noticing the US dollar decline
http://money.cnn.com/2018/01/15/investing/weak-dollar/index.html
The pound was more like 1.30 against the Euro just before the referendum?
Also, the pound v Euro was at similar levels to today in 2013 and was actually quite a bit lower in 2011.
You are correct on the ca. 1.30 value. I previously took the other figure from yet another slanted news story!
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