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08 Nov 17
10:38
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Date Joined:
08 Jan 02
What hope is there for the NHS. In recent months have had two friends/relatives in hospital.
One was in his late 70's some infection he could not get rid of. Was in hospital for 9 months of the last 12 months of his life. Apparently £400 a day for the cost of a hospital bed = £110k
Other in his early 70's and has been having cancer treatments for 5 years. Chemo, radiotherapy, more chemo... Slowly deteriorating and in great, constant pain. Can't believe he has many more months to live. Fell over recently and broke his femur due to being riddled with cancer, also his wrist, in a fall. Had 5 hour operation and got a titanium rod in his leg. Now out of hospital and in a rehab unit.
Probably 20 years ago these two would have died. Earlier, but with less pain...less stress. For themselves and their families.
And it can only get worse.
One was in his late 70's some infection he could not get rid of. Was in hospital for 9 months of the last 12 months of his life. Apparently £400 a day for the cost of a hospital bed = £110k
Other in his early 70's and has been having cancer treatments for 5 years. Chemo, radiotherapy, more chemo... Slowly deteriorating and in great, constant pain. Can't believe he has many more months to live. Fell over recently and broke his femur due to being riddled with cancer, also his wrist, in a fall. Had 5 hour operation and got a titanium rod in his leg. Now out of hospital and in a rehab unit.
Probably 20 years ago these two would have died. Earlier, but with less pain...less stress. For themselves and their families.
And it can only get worse.
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Replies: 96
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It's a tough call JaHa.
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It has got worse. Since Harold Shipman, doctors are more wary than ever about giving mild overdoses of painkillers that might ease the suffering or even passing of terminally ill patients.
Prolonging someone's death is not the same as prolonging their life -- except now it is. |
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Every one is looking over their shoulder. How about giving the poor s od on the trolley a say.
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If someone wants to end their life let them end it. Extend liberty and freedom of choice to that basic right and stop living in the dark ages. We did it with gay rights.
Life expectancy in the UK 1960 71.1 1970 72.0 1980 74.0 1990 75.9 2000 77.7 2010 80.4 2015 81.6 |
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I totally agree 29.
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The year on year cuts to beds, hospitals and actual medical staff for the last 40 years have ruined the NHS.
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They do their best.
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Liverpool care pathway
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Like I said, it's a tough call but let people be eh?
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NHS was set up to get people who become ill, better.
Now, the majority of the demand on it comes as a result of people's lifestyle choices. Either directly (eg, pi$$ed up people clogging A&E), or more frequently indirectly (eg, mobility problems and pains, or organ malfunction due to a lifetime of poor diet, no exercise, drinking, smoking etc). Until the onus is shifted as much onto the patient to take some responsibility for their own health, as it is on the NHS to make people better, then nothing will improve. People's sense of entitlement when it comes to the NHS is quite breathtaking. |
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Absolutely Danno.
Not to mention the violent abuse that A&Es have to put up with. |
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STUDYFORM
08 Nov 17 11:10 Joined: 26 Jan 05 | Topic/replies: 17,357 | Blogger: STUDYFORM's blog The year on year cuts to beds, hospitals and actual medical staff for the last 40 years have ruined the NHS. More money than ever is going into the NHS. I see it as doing a great job. In terms of expenditure as a percentage of GDP the UK gets good value for money. |
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The only big problem area is GPs getting clogged up.
Population has gone up massively, everyone goes to the GP more often, because its free people miss appointments. |
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don't believe those life expectancy figures 1960-71 etc
150 years ago life expectancy in Britain was 74-76 |
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I think people spent longer in hospital in the 60s than now also .
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Now there are 1.4milion people employed in the health service, isn't that incredible,
for our population, last time I looked most people were not in hospital What are these 1.4 million people doing ? |
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In 1950 there were 150, 000 people employed in the health service , now it's 1.4 million.
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I don't think the solution is for the NHS to start killing people.
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Take a look around, the vast majority of British people are perfectly healthy, there are millions of us who do not go near a hospital or doctor for years .
There are millions of healthy people, and 1.4 million working in the health service. |
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The NHS was about getting people better. Now it is about keeping them alive.
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Well they are not very successful in that.
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these are the facts, in Britain in middle of the 19th century about 150 years ago,the average life exectency was about 74 for a man and a little more for a woman.
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source?
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Jack,
Somethings you can not be made better from. e.g. being HIV or having a heart condition. However the NHS can keep people alive from those conditions more now than a few years ago. Those people can live relatively normal lives now without ever being cured. What are you suggesting happens to those people? |
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Of course, some people go onto have a good life.
The cases I described don't/didn't, but my point was that it is not a feasible model, financially, so something will have to be change. |
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lfc,
I dont think your numbers are right. Residents in England and Wales over the age of 85 has risen from just over 1 million in 2001 to 1.25 million in 2011 and is growing fast. |
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I read about it many years ago, it surprised me.,
But it is because the usual figures are skewed by children dying very young then A family of 5 and 2 or more children could die , and if was not uncommon for mothers to die in childbirth So this brought the average down which is misleading Then once someone reached the age of 18 and worked in an average industrial or farming or clerical job they could expect to live to pretty much the same age as people today. |
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The tourism isn't helping imo.
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Insider trader it doesn't matter what age people live to , they work until they are 65 and pay into the health service
The important thing is that they might start work at 16 and work and pay tax or not as the case is more likely to be now .' This is the vital period of time , this is when the money is paid into the health service Now a person is going to have to get ill and die at some age , if it is 80 or 75?is meaningless However if someone dies at a younger age , say 50, and hasnt left college and started work until they are almost 30 or may be unemployed Then you have a problem That is the problem, not people living longer. |
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And too many time-wasters.
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65 is the important age , and what happens up and until that age.after that age it doesn't matter what age we live to
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If course if we have milions if people who have not paid into the health service , that's something else again
Is it millions of people? yes. |
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@lfc
An article about the issue Life span is usually measured by life expectancy at birth, which is highly influenced by deaths at young ages, so recently ONS has been investigating other measures of average life span. For example, the late modal age at death is solely influenced by adult mortality and consequently much more sensitive to improvements in mortality among the older population. Modal age at death has emerged as a particularly useful measure for analysing mortality at older ages and alongside life expectancy at birth and possibly median age at death, can help us to understand the ageing that is characteristic of the population of England and Wales. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity /birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/mortalityinenglandandwales/2012-12-17 This table (from the link above) somewhat supports your theory (up to the last century) ie the most common age to die stayed much the same, but the high infant/child mortality reduced the population. Figure 5: Number of Deaths by Age from the Period Life Tables for England and Wales, Males But there has clearly been a substantial increase in longevity in the last couple of decades if modal age of death is the measure used. |
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ah yes thanks dave , it's a surprising thing.
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A relative of mine was on a total of 5 different wards in 2 hospitals. She's old. Now there used to be a geriatric ward in hospitals. Doesn't seem to be the case now.
Why? Cos nearly everyone on those 5 wards was old. And as I wandered thru the hospitals I was amazed how few young people were there. It's obvious of course but as Jack says the NHS is keeping people alive rather than curing them. The cost to prolong peoples' lives in hospital beds and nursing homes must be billions. The overrall NHS budget is about £110Bn. I reckon a large portion of that goes to the over 60s. Quite a dilemma and not sure what the answer is. I think we need to pay more and certainly OAPs who are still tax payers should pay for prescriptions etc. |
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A big factor in shortening the life span of people was industrial disease.
We haven't got those industries killing people any more. |
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Matthew Syed comparing the health care industry to the aviation industry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmVCYqs3mko |
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The population of the UK since 2000 has increased by approx 5% that was not planned
for,that must have had an impact on the NHS. |
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Sica,
How can you say that when without workers from overseas the NHS would collapse. |