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You may remember it crashed into New York , a few weeks after 9/11
Everyone on board was killed . They discovered that the tail section had broken off.
The pilot had been trying to control the aircraft in turbulence and had been too heavy footed on the rudder pedals pushing the rudder too far left and then right.
This created too great a stress and the tail broke away.
They put the crash down as pilot error, even thought he had been taught this procedure in training .Pilots have now been warned not to do it.
But who builds an aircraft that if the pilot happens to push the rudder pedals to their full extent in one direction and then the other the tail section breaks off !!
The A380 has a carbon fibre tail section , new technology to save weight and fuel, they have not been grounded , Pilots just have to be careful not to be too aggressive and the tail section doesn't fall off.
Everyone on board was killed . They discovered that the tail section had broken off.
The pilot had been trying to control the aircraft in turbulence and had been too heavy footed on the rudder pedals pushing the rudder too far left and then right.
This created too great a stress and the tail broke away.
They put the crash down as pilot error, even thought he had been taught this procedure in training .Pilots have now been warned not to do it.
But who builds an aircraft that if the pilot happens to push the rudder pedals to their full extent in one direction and then the other the tail section breaks off !!
The A380 has a carbon fibre tail section , new technology to save weight and fuel, they have not been grounded , Pilots just have to be careful not to be too aggressive and the tail section doesn't fall off.
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A plane is capable of flying vertically, but it'll stall and crash. You need the tools to do stuff but you also need the skills to do it well.
I don't know, I don't like that idea. That if the pilot pushed the rudder pedals too far , in certain conditions the tail section will break off .
Ok just how far and how heavy footed does he have to be, and how often . What happens if the previous pilot has been careless and got away with it and weakened the tail section .
Then in the next flight again a little more over force .
I don't see how this could have been put down to pilot error alone and not also a design fault .
The are still flying, with presumably no further problems , and pilots being careful. But how can they be sure ?
Ok just how far and how heavy footed does he have to be, and how often . What happens if the previous pilot has been careless and got away with it and weakened the tail section .
Then in the next flight again a little more over force .
I don't see how this could have been put down to pilot error alone and not also a design fault .
The are still flying, with presumably no further problems , and pilots being careful. But how can they be sure ?
now if an aircraft stalls through pilot error that is pilot error( and may not crash the aircraft can recover)
If a pilot pushes the rudder too far in a direction that the rudders are designed to go after all and the tail breaks off it is impossible to correct.
The aircraft crashes.
If a pilot pushes the rudder too far in a direction that the rudders are designed to go after all and the tail breaks off it is impossible to correct.
The aircraft crashes.
Of if a previous pilot had been a little too aggressive and weakened the section?
Doesn't surprise me. Someone built a plane that only worked during half the day. A real fly by night company.
: ) well what would you call a company that builds aircraft that use new technology to save costs and finds that the aircraft breaks up in flight ?
And then tells the pilots to be careful and changes its pilot training process which had taught them this way of flying wasn't dangerous.
But to be careful so it doesn't happen again . It's how careful that worries me .
But to be careful so it doesn't happen again . It's how careful that worries me .
You see I like to fly in an aircraft where the pilot doesn't have to be too careful, where the aircraft is forgiving of mistakes and solidly built to compensate for even the most heavy handed or heavy footed pilot
To me it is not meant to be a military jet aircraft but taking hundreds of passengers on thousands of flights it should be a workhorse.
To me it is not meant to be a military jet aircraft but taking hundreds of passengers on thousands of flights it should be a workhorse.
sorry it was an A330, do you mean to say they are building more of these things only bigger?
The A380 is the big one, it came out about 10 years ago, no crashes yet...though a few dodgy engine incidents
pp says that aircraft stall and crash if pilots make an error. Yes sometimes we can't eliminate pilot error after all, that's why we should not think we can eliminate pilot error in how they use the rudder pedals in certain circumstances
The difference is when a pilot makes an error, or due to weather conditions the aircraft stalls ( and this happens often) the aircraft does not break up becayse of that error.
The pilot can recover , the aircraft is fine .
Make a similar mistake , in similar conditions in the case of the rudder and tail section and the tail breaks off.
That to me is a design fault not pilot error.
The difference is when a pilot makes an error, or due to weather conditions the aircraft stalls ( and this happens often) the aircraft does not break up becayse of that error.
The pilot can recover , the aircraft is fine .
Make a similar mistake , in similar conditions in the case of the rudder and tail section and the tail breaks off.
That to me is a design fault not pilot error.
And it is also that a pilot cannot be sure how the aircraft was flown before him, had there been a particularly clumsy pilot who happened to get away with it but had weakened the tail section.
That is the problem also , how careful is careful depending on aircraft speed , weather conditions , flying styles of previous and current pilots and conditions etc
That is the problem also , how careful is careful depending on aircraft speed , weather conditions , flying styles of previous and current pilots and conditions etc
To me if you push the rudder pedals to the max in any one direction and the tail section is in danger if breaking off then that is a problem
Anyibe who designs an aircraft like that is mad, ( and greedy?)
Anyibe who designs an aircraft like that is mad, ( and greedy?)
LFC is correct of course in saying that the plane had an inherent design flaw. I suspect that the official explanation was agreed to be pilot error to avoid the massive insurance payouts and consequent effect on American Airlines and Airbus. I reckon LFC that the tail fixings were subsequently strengthened considerably in excess of the 200000lb failure point after this incident - it just wasn't publicised.
That was not mentioned on last nights programme either., perhaps they were careful not to.
They also didn't mention your point about the tail fixings being weakened by previous careless rudder use? A glaring omission. Based on their own conclusions this would be an obvious possibility.
It wasn't a A380, one of those is yet to crash, it'll make a big bang when it does.
because it was soon after 9/11 this story didn't make the massive headlines it would normally
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