Chit Chat
Welcome to Live View – Take the tour to learn more
Start Tour
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
Having read about the evidence I was surprised how little evidence for jesus being a real person in history.When I say little apart from the bible there is no independent evidence apart from a couple of writers who mention him 70 years after his supposed death.Then its just a few lines but wouldn't a person doing these remarkable things be at least mentioned by someone.Theres not one contemporary mention.
Show More
Question: "Did Jesus really exist? Is there any historical evidence of Jesus Christ?"
Answer: Typically, when this question is asked, the person asking qualifies the question with “outside of the Bible.” We do not grant this idea that the Bible cannot be considered a source of evidence for the existence of Jesus. The New Testament contains hundreds of references to Jesus Christ. There are those who date the writing of the Gospels to the second century A.D., more than 100 years after Jesus' death. Even if this were the case (which we strongly dispute), in terms of ancient evidences, writings less than 200 years after events took place are considered very reliable evidences. Further, the vast majority of scholars (Christian and non-Christian) will grant that the Epistles of Paul (at least some of them) were in fact written by Paul in the middle of the first century A.D., less than 40 years after Jesus' death. In terms of ancient manuscript evidence, this is extraordinarily strong proof of the existence of a man named Jesus in Israel in the early first century A.D.
It is also important to recognize that in A.D. 70, the Romans invaded and destroyed Jerusalem and most of Israel, slaughtering its inhabitants. Entire cities were literally burned to the ground. We should not be surprised, then, if much evidence of Jesus' existence was destroyed. Many of the eyewitnesses of Jesus would have been killed. These facts likely limited the amount of surviving eyewitness testimony of Jesus.
Considering that Jesus' ministry was largely confined to a relatively unimportant area in a small corner of the Roman Empire, a surprising amount of information about Jesus can be drawn from secular historical sources. Some of the more important historical evidences of Jesus include the following:
The first-century Roman Tacitus, who is considered one of the more accurate historians of the ancient world, mentioned superstitious “Christians” (from Christus, which is Latin for Christ), who suffered under Pontius Pilate during the reign of Tiberius. Suetonius, chief secretary to Emperor Hadrian, wrote that there was a man named Chrestus (or Christ) who lived during the first century (Annals 15.44).
Flavius Josephus is the most famous Jewish historian. In his Antiquities he refers to James, “the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ.” There is a controversial verse (18:3) that says, “Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man. For he was one who wrought surprising feats....He was [the] Christ...he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him.” One version reads, “At this time there was a wise man named Jesus. His conduct was good and [he] was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. But those who became his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion, and that he was alive; accordingly he was perhaps the Messiah, concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders.”
Julius Africanus quotes the historian Thallus in a discussion of the darkness which followed the crucifixion of Christ (Extant Writings, 18).
Pliny the Younger, in Letters 10:96, recorded early Christian worship practices including the fact that Christians worshiped Jesus as God and were very ethical, and he includes a reference to the love feast and Lord’s Supper.
The Babylonian Talmud (Sanhedrin 43a) confirms Jesus' crucifixion on the eve of Passover and the accusations against Christ of practicing sorcery and encouraging Jewish apostasy.
Lucian of Samosata was a second-century Greek writer who admits that Jesus was worshiped by Christians, introduced new teachings, and was crucified for them. He said that Jesus' teachings included the brotherhood of believers, the importance of conversion, and the importance of denying other gods. Christians lived according to Jesus’ laws, believed themselves to be immortal, and were characterized by contempt for death, voluntary self-devotion, and renunciation of material goods.
Mara Bar-Serapion confirms that Jesus was thought to be a wise and virtuous man, was considered by many to be the king of Israel, was put to death by the Jews, and lived on in the teachings of His followers.
Then we have all the Gnostic writings (The Gospel of Truth, The Apocryphon of John, The Gospel of Thomas, The Treatise on Resurrection, etc.) that all mention Jesus.
In fact, we can almost reconstruct the gospel just from early non-Christian sources: Jesus was called the Christ (Josephus), did “magic,” led Israel into new teachings, and was hanged on Passover for them (Babylonian Talmud) in Judea (Tacitus), but claimed to be God and would return (Eliezar), which his followers believed, worshipping Him as God (Pliny the Younger).
There is overwhelming evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ, both in secular and biblical history. Perhaps the greatest evidence that Jesus did exist is the fact that literally thousands of Christians in the first century A.D., including the twelve apostles, were willing to give their lives as martyrs for Jesus Christ. People will die for what they believe to be true, but no one will die for what they know to be a lie.
https://www.gotquestions.org/did-Jesus-exist.html
Answer: Typically, when this question is asked, the person asking qualifies the question with “outside of the Bible.” We do not grant this idea that the Bible cannot be considered a source of evidence for the existence of Jesus. The New Testament contains hundreds of references to Jesus Christ. There are those who date the writing of the Gospels to the second century A.D., more than 100 years after Jesus' death. Even if this were the case (which we strongly dispute), in terms of ancient evidences, writings less than 200 years after events took place are considered very reliable evidences. Further, the vast majority of scholars (Christian and non-Christian) will grant that the Epistles of Paul (at least some of them) were in fact written by Paul in the middle of the first century A.D., less than 40 years after Jesus' death. In terms of ancient manuscript evidence, this is extraordinarily strong proof of the existence of a man named Jesus in Israel in the early first century A.D.
It is also important to recognize that in A.D. 70, the Romans invaded and destroyed Jerusalem and most of Israel, slaughtering its inhabitants. Entire cities were literally burned to the ground. We should not be surprised, then, if much evidence of Jesus' existence was destroyed. Many of the eyewitnesses of Jesus would have been killed. These facts likely limited the amount of surviving eyewitness testimony of Jesus.
Considering that Jesus' ministry was largely confined to a relatively unimportant area in a small corner of the Roman Empire, a surprising amount of information about Jesus can be drawn from secular historical sources. Some of the more important historical evidences of Jesus include the following:
The first-century Roman Tacitus, who is considered one of the more accurate historians of the ancient world, mentioned superstitious “Christians” (from Christus, which is Latin for Christ), who suffered under Pontius Pilate during the reign of Tiberius. Suetonius, chief secretary to Emperor Hadrian, wrote that there was a man named Chrestus (or Christ) who lived during the first century (Annals 15.44).
Flavius Josephus is the most famous Jewish historian. In his Antiquities he refers to James, “the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ.” There is a controversial verse (18:3) that says, “Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man. For he was one who wrought surprising feats....He was [the] Christ...he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him.” One version reads, “At this time there was a wise man named Jesus. His conduct was good and [he] was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. But those who became his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion, and that he was alive; accordingly he was perhaps the Messiah, concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders.”
Julius Africanus quotes the historian Thallus in a discussion of the darkness which followed the crucifixion of Christ (Extant Writings, 18).
Pliny the Younger, in Letters 10:96, recorded early Christian worship practices including the fact that Christians worshiped Jesus as God and were very ethical, and he includes a reference to the love feast and Lord’s Supper.
The Babylonian Talmud (Sanhedrin 43a) confirms Jesus' crucifixion on the eve of Passover and the accusations against Christ of practicing sorcery and encouraging Jewish apostasy.
Lucian of Samosata was a second-century Greek writer who admits that Jesus was worshiped by Christians, introduced new teachings, and was crucified for them. He said that Jesus' teachings included the brotherhood of believers, the importance of conversion, and the importance of denying other gods. Christians lived according to Jesus’ laws, believed themselves to be immortal, and were characterized by contempt for death, voluntary self-devotion, and renunciation of material goods.
Mara Bar-Serapion confirms that Jesus was thought to be a wise and virtuous man, was considered by many to be the king of Israel, was put to death by the Jews, and lived on in the teachings of His followers.
Then we have all the Gnostic writings (The Gospel of Truth, The Apocryphon of John, The Gospel of Thomas, The Treatise on Resurrection, etc.) that all mention Jesus.
In fact, we can almost reconstruct the gospel just from early non-Christian sources: Jesus was called the Christ (Josephus), did “magic,” led Israel into new teachings, and was hanged on Passover for them (Babylonian Talmud) in Judea (Tacitus), but claimed to be God and would return (Eliezar), which his followers believed, worshipping Him as God (Pliny the Younger).
There is overwhelming evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ, both in secular and biblical history. Perhaps the greatest evidence that Jesus did exist is the fact that literally thousands of Christians in the first century A.D., including the twelve apostles, were willing to give their lives as martyrs for Jesus Christ. People will die for what they believe to be true, but no one will die for what they know to be a lie.
https://www.gotquestions.org/did-Jesus-exist.html
Portmanpark used the word "contemporary". Nearly everything in that C+P refers to writers and writings which were not contemporary. Would you like to try again?
Jesus was the son of god.Thats the bible god.
But the real god is Spinoza ,the one that Albert Einstein talks about.The God of nature.the god that made the universe.The God that keeps everything going from day to day,the god that created the heavens and the stars and the god that most people say does not exist.
Now when Jesus said he was the son OF god(created by god) im not so sure which god he refered to,he may have being referring to Spinoza's god or the bible god.There are very few examples of proof of the existence of the bible god but Spinoza's god is about everyday of the week and some people still can not find him.But if the Spinoza god made everything I guess you can safely say he also made Jesus.
But the real god is Spinoza ,the one that Albert Einstein talks about.The God of nature.the god that made the universe.The God that keeps everything going from day to day,the god that created the heavens and the stars and the god that most people say does not exist.
Now when Jesus said he was the son OF god(created by god) im not so sure which god he refered to,he may have being referring to Spinoza's god or the bible god.There are very few examples of proof of the existence of the bible god but Spinoza's god is about everyday of the week and some people still can not find him.But if the Spinoza god made everything I guess you can safely say he also made Jesus.
By the way the Spinoza god is a god of energy and not holy joe god,but the amazing fact is that someone people still do not believe that the Spinoza god exists.And the Spinoza god has controlled the universe since the first second of time,and had to be about to start everything so I guess that Spinoza's god always was and always will be,and as albert says has an intelligent force.
john wayne playing a roman soldier
he truly is the son of god
won me over - I'm a beleiver
he truly is the son of god
won me over - I'm a beleiver
Moin-Moin Foin. Are you fishing or just being silly? 
My C+P from the link posted (because many people don't click on unknown links) demonstrates to the OP that there is a plethora of evidence that Jesus actually existed. It even includes a link to a contempory author and his book ...
https://www.christianbook.com/journalist-investigates-current-attacks-identity-christ/lee-strobel/9780310339267/pd/339267?event=AFF&p=1011693&
.
Here is the same book on amazon & eBay ...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=The+Case+for+the+Real+Jesus
.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.XThe+Case+for+the+Real+Jesus.TRS0&_nkw=The+Case+for+the+Real+Jesus&_sacat=0
.
Happy reading
Brassballs, wotchutalikinabaht, "Spinoza?"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Spinoza
My C+P from the link posted (because many people don't click on unknown links) demonstrates to the OP that there is a plethora of evidence that Jesus actually existed. It even includes a link to a contempory author and his book ...
https://www.christianbook.com/journalist-investigates-current-attacks-identity-christ/lee-strobel/9780310339267/pd/339267?event=AFF&p=1011693&
.
Here is the same book on amazon & eBay ...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=The+Case+for+the+Real+Jesus
.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.XThe+Case+for+the+Real+Jesus.TRS0&_nkw=The+Case+for+the+Real+Jesus&_sacat=0
.
Happy reading
Brassballs, wotchutalikinabaht, "Spinoza?"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Spinoza
Brass, Jesus refers to the 'Father' God, and is constantly quoting scripture and also how he is fulfilling prophecies from the o t.
I'd suggest the majority of non believers are pretty sure of Jesus real existence, too. As are millions of people who have believed in him over 2000 years, including those who he has miraculously changed.
I'd suggest the majority of non believers are pretty sure of Jesus real existence, too. As are millions of people who have believed in him over 2000 years, including those who he has miraculously changed.
paddy hair,you are mixing God up with Pablo Eskobar.
something had to start everything off so before the big bang or big crunch there had to be something," everyone understands that",so that something is named God(you can name it anything you care to do so).So I call it Spinoza's god(just like Albert Einstein called it an intelligent force running the cosmos)but its there and no one can argue that its not,but some people refuse to believe it due to vanity or ignorance ,but it has to be there or we would not be having this conversation.
Remember science law of thermo dynamics states than nothing can be created from nothing, so if there is no god the laws of science can be chucked into the waste paper bin.
As I say" Spinoza's god is an energy /a God of nature"and anyone who wants to differ my statement ,is saying the laws of science is wrong" GAME ,SET,AND MATCH TO BRASS.
something had to start everything off so before the big bang or big crunch there had to be something," everyone understands that",so that something is named God(you can name it anything you care to do so).So I call it Spinoza's god(just like Albert Einstein called it an intelligent force running the cosmos)but its there and no one can argue that its not,but some people refuse to believe it due to vanity or ignorance ,but it has to be there or we would not be having this conversation.
Remember science law of thermo dynamics states than nothing can be created from nothing, so if there is no god the laws of science can be chucked into the waste paper bin.
As I say" Spinoza's god is an energy /a God of nature"and anyone who wants to differ my statement ,is saying the laws of science is wrong"
GAME ,SET,AND MATCH TO BRASS.
and further more,Spinoza's god started everything with a boson that a guy called Higgs discovered a few years back,proving that Spinoza's god does exist .its called THE GOD PARTICLE.
and Spinoza's god seems to have feelings, because this strange energy cares for the universe ,making it a god of love and caring.
IT also runs the universe like a time piece or as they say"runs like clockwork"
IT also runs the universe like a time piece or as they say"runs like clockwork"
xmoneyx -
'john wayne playing a roman soldier
he truly is the son of god'
The story has it that when he was rehearsing for that part, the film director asked Wayne to make the part more dramatic. 'It's a dramatic line - put some 'awe' into it!
It was reported that Wayne spoke the line in rehearsal as follows, 'Awe, he truly is the son of God'
'john wayne playing a roman soldier
he truly is the son of god'
The story has it that when he was rehearsing for that part, the film director asked Wayne to make the part more dramatic. 'It's a dramatic line - put some 'awe' into it!
It was reported that Wayne spoke the line in rehearsal as follows, 'Awe, he truly is the son of God'
You want to laugh at John Wayne playing a Roman Centurian, you can't have seen David Niven ( stiff upper lip.posh speaking ) playing Bonnie Prince Charlie.
Yul Brynner in the king and I"let it be written as it is spoken".referring to jesus Christ.
trilby22
18 Sep 17 06:43
Joined: 21 Aug 10 | Topic/replies: 16,530 | Blogger: trilby22's blog
Moin-Moin Foin. Are you fishing or just being silly
Fishing, moi? Of course not Trilby
When anyone says there is sufficient evidence in the bible, you know he is preaching to the converted. A future Harry Potter cult could point to seven books as proof of his existence while ignoring the lack of contemporary historical record for broom-flying schoolboys.
The fact that second century Christians worshipped Christ is no more evidence than 21st Century Christians doing the same. "Christ" is a title not a name.
Jesus was allegedly executed by the Romans who kept impeccable records, where are the records of his trial?
I don't want to go through the whole list but I concede that Josephus was a respected historian and the two short references in his records are the nub of the argument amongst historians. Some contend they are genuine and have been faithfully copied down the ages by scribes, others think they are forgeries added after the event by Christian scribes.
I have an open mind about whether Jesus existed, there were many would-be Messiahs wandering around giving sermons during the time of Roman occupation as the populace were desperate for a leader who would liberate them as prophesied in their religious texts. Any one of them could have been him. I don't accept the accounts of miracles, they are later embellishments to give credibility to the god hypothesis.
18 Sep 17 06:43
Joined: 21 Aug 10 | Topic/replies: 16,530 | Blogger: trilby22's blog
Moin-Moin Foin. Are you fishing or just being silly
Fishing, moi? Of course not Trilby
When anyone says there is sufficient evidence in the bible, you know he is preaching to the converted. A future Harry Potter cult could point to seven books as proof of his existence while ignoring the lack of contemporary historical record for broom-flying schoolboys.
The fact that second century Christians worshipped Christ is no more evidence than 21st Century Christians doing the same. "Christ" is a title not a name.
Jesus was allegedly executed by the Romans who kept impeccable records, where are the records of his trial?
I don't want to go through the whole list but I concede that Josephus was a respected historian and the two short references in his records are the nub of the argument amongst historians. Some contend they are genuine and have been faithfully copied down the ages by scribes, others think they are forgeries added after the event by Christian scribes.
I have an open mind about whether Jesus existed, there were many would-be Messiahs wandering around giving sermons during the time of Roman occupation as the populace were desperate for a leader who would liberate them as prophesied in their religious texts. Any one of them could have been him. I don't accept the accounts of miracles, they are later embellishments to give credibility to the god hypothesis.
I started to read Spinoza in my youth, Brassy. Unfortunately, my eyes crossed and became glazed over after a few pages and I went out to the pub instead. Congratulations if you managed to finish it.
If he did exist he was a total mug for not getting his image rights properly protected. Catholic churches are full of knock offs of him, he could've been minted, he could've been the next Kim Kardashian.
"Did Jesus really exist? Is there any historical evidence of Jesus Christ?"
chinese whispers, “Send three and fourpence, we’re going to a dance”
chinese whispers, “Send three and fourpence, we’re going to a dance”
If Jesus was on Twitter he would have more than 12 followers
Post Your Reply
Please login to post a reply.
Wonder
Instance ID: 13539