Stupidity

I spoke to my brother over the weekend about politics.  He has a high powered job with the Bank of England.  Said he'd never vote Tory again for calling the referendum.  When he said that Corbyn would be a disaster for the economy, but interestingly he thought it was not as bad for the economy as leaving the EU.  I pointed out that by not voting Tory he was in effect voting for Corbyn.  We live in stupid times.  France is doing everything they can to take financial jobs from London now.  Fast tracking, subsidies and incentives galore.

I do think the difference between Labour and the Tories for the economy right now is not that great. That's because they both agree with Brexit though their tones are a little different. Brexit is the great defining of our age. Its impact on our economy specifically is probably going to be huge. The difference between tory austerity and Labour spending is going to pale into relative insignificance when cast against that.

As for your last 2 sentences, this was all predicted last year. The City is a massive clearing house for European firms. The EU are now saying that this needs to be based in the EU. You can understand their point ultimately. Having it outside of EU regulations and control doesn't sit well particularly as we've made threats of becoming some tax haven on their shores. The EU is ultimately a protectionist state; they'll do what's best for their members. If the choice is to encourage trade with businesses inside their borders, if the choice is to look after jobs inside or outside or tax revenues etc etc then they're going to do what's best for their members. Only question regarding financial services is how much is going to be divvied up between Paris, Frankfurt and Dublin.

It will be better for everyone if they do leave, Britain needs high tech and industry, not financial services.

She is right about Enoch also.

Will they leave? that's ok. Britain does not have any problem replacing these great talents.

We had banks before, when we were wealthier, now we are poor and we still have them, so what?
Its very simple we have the banking and financial con men, and the country is bankrupt.

Its impact on our economy specifically is probably going to be huge.

Or again probably not. Although anything is possible in project fear Mark 2.

These people make me sick, here's the government trying to get a good deal for the UK, and the remoaners are trying their hardest to scupper their chances in the hope of getting another referendum.

Carry on.

How is brexit going to increase manufacturing and high tech industries here?

How are we trying to scupper our chances? It's your side doing the scuppering. You won the referendum and since then we've had to go through a leadership election, an eternity to invoke Article 50, and then 5 minutes after that it was all put on hold again for a general election that (according to May) has made our bargaining position far worse than it was a couple of months ago.

You've had your chief negotiator posturing, saying how we'll have our cake and eat it and then saying to prepare for THE ROW OF THE SUMMER over our desire to discuss trade alongside our exit. That lasted a morning before he caved in.


Tell me, which bits of this have I made up as part of the dreaded Project Fear? Anyone - anyone - who's looked at this from an economic point of view has concluded that it's going to have a negative effect. Yes, you may get fewer shops selling Romanian food on your high street but there's a cost to go with that unfortunately.


I'm going to repeat a prediction I made a couple of weeks ago. I think there'll be another referendum round 2019. It will be something along the lines of accept these terms or stay in. I think politicians are getting information and realise what a catastrophe this will be. They won't want to put their names to it. Therefore, they'll brick it and give it back to us to make the final decision.

There will not be another referendum, because just offering one will be the death warrant for the Tory Party.

I think they're already badly winded just from being the brexit party. They decided to call it and they're charged with deciding our position. They'll need to pull off an absolute masterstroke to avoid this being a mess and them being left with the blood all over their clothes.

We're still seeing surveys on brexit (54-46 was the latest result I think) and they're not going to go away. They'll only intensify as we get closer to the date and we know more about what we're facing. Every bit of bad news will be considered against Brexit. Nursing numbers are down today and it's framed as why are we putting barriers up to European nurses, as well as making it more difficult to recruit and retain our own. For another thing, I could see The S*n flip-flopping on this. They're taking a hit to their readership, our Don't Buy The S*n campaign is growing legs, particularly among the young and they may see that being on the wrong side of popular opinion will be too big a price. I think if the pressure continues, the line about "will of the people" will start to wear thin if they're faced with opinion polls putting remain well ahead and also Labour well ahead. They may not stomach offering a watered down transitional deal as that will irk the swivelled-eyed loons but they could make a case for giving the people the choice. If the will of the people is all that matters then let them make the choice now that we have the full facts of what brexit means. That's just how I see it right now. Could be wrong obvs but want to throw it out there.

The point Britains high tech and industry, or lack of it , is as it is irrespective of membership of the EU.
Membership of the EU and over reliance on financial services.  and the service industry in general is made worse by membership of the EU.
The economy in Britain is based in a rush to the lowest common denominator , this is the inevitable consequence of being in such close economic and political ties with 27 other countries , who gave freedom of movement to Britain
Until we leave, and make changes this cannot change.

How's the EU's answer to the Greek Debt Crisis going PorP?

Apart from 'still being kicked into the long grass' of course?

If there is a second referendum it must be the option of leaving and stopping freedom of movement .no deal that can be done in relation to membership can retain freedom of movement and be legal, after the first referendum which said that leaving the EU meant stopping freedom of movement and controlling  our own borders.

If there is any doubt , ask the people .

after the first referendum which said that leaving the EU meant stopping freedom of movement and controlling  our own borders

was there a load of small print on the ballot paper?  I must've missed it.

Jul 3, 2017 -- 12:46PM, rogerthebutler wrote:

How's the EU's answer to the Greek Debt Crisis going PorP?Apart from 'still being kicked into the long grass' of course?

whataboutery

There is one thing only that the EU , and people like pineapple are concerned to preserve , it has nothing to do with concern for the economy or the country.
They are determined to maintain free access to Britain for all their citizens.
That I can assure you will mean Britain getting poorer, much poorer.

Dave you will have to read things more slowly , I didn't say it was on the ballot paper .
If there is a second referendum put it in the paper , that is what I am saying ,
I know pineapple and others are trying to avoid this simple issue , but it was one of the main considerations when people voted
They voted in the knowledge that leaving meant stopping freedom of movement
Ask them if you must.

You do not worry about the nature of a new deal, there will be no deal.
The EU will not do a deal.

the first referendum which said that

Your words

I said the first referendum, that meant that it was agreed by both Britain, and the EU, before and at the time of the first referendum that leaving the EU meant stopping freedom of movement and taking back control of our borders
That was what we voted on , in the full knowledge off.

And there cannot be a second referendum unless this option if stopping freedom of movement remains
Any sensible person would admit that is at least something that should be put to the people, once again if necessary.
Just to shut people like Dave and pineapple up.

The second referendum cannot be an option  between whatever deal is cobbled together , and staying in maintaining the status quo...unless freedom of movement is stoped
That would be illegal after the first referendum.

Not that there will be a deal, the EU will not do a deal.

Lfc - what am I trying to avoid?

We discussed this last week. If an end to free movement is part of the final deal then that needs to be set out. Explain the divorce cost, the £350m saving, end of free movement etc etc. That's option a. Option b is to stay in. Politicians, businessmen and journalists can then argue the likely implications and we put it to a vote.

Ah, I must have missed that pineapple , I thought you wanted a new referendum between a new deal , with or without freedom of movement, and staying in and not changing .
You see I don't trust that sort of option because it would be illegal after the first referendum.

That's what you would like to happen, but it can not possibly happen.

There will be no further referenda, we will either get what we want included in the deal, or we will walk away with no deal.

I maintain my position that when push comes to shove we will have all the access for trade that we require because the two major governments of contintental Europe will not allow any other outcome.

It's ok Jed, if the usual suspects start talking about the possible costs that they think there may or may not be ,
we can ignore them. and start to put forward some of the possible costs of staying in.
I thought we had been through this already ?

Sorry lfc I was talking to Porcupine

He will be trying to find some way, once again, of misunderstanding .

it was agreed by both Britain, and the EU, before and at the time of the first referendum that leaving the EU meant stopping freedom of movement and taking back control of our borders

No it wasn't - nothing was agreed with the EU.  Nothing was agreed with Britain.  You can't produce any agreement, because none exists.  You are simply making up stuff.

He mentions silly people in the op, but has anything he has said so far made sense to any sensible person?
certainly not.

Here's another one : )

has anything he has said so far made sense to any sensible person?


How would you be able to judge?

Dave it doesn't matter if you didn't understand, if the new deal does not stop freedim if miivement,ask the people ,
now I can't make it any simpler for you than that.

I am not particularly intelligent, and I don't like to strain my intelligent too much
But at least I understand that.

Should the people of Britain vote to stay in the EU, and maintain freedom of movement that is fine,
It is immaterial to me.

it is bound to take time to adjust when we leave

we've built factories to trade with eu

the factory making parts for german cars will not benefit overnite if it loses access to single market and gains a
free trade deal with usa and brazil.


at least some folk are planning ahead, they are the wise ones