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09 Jun 17
09:58
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08 Aug 16
And their inability to fax the people with more money.
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The care plan fiasco definitely a reason, and Labour's ability to get lots of youngsters to vote who were unaware or didn't care about Corbyn's past.
The care plan a massive blunder imo.
No tuition fees and free drinks for students might have had something to do with it as well, bringing the youth out to vote?
Jam today, you don't have to wait till tomorrow!
No tuition fees and free drinks for students might have had something to do with it as well, bringing the youth out to vote?
Jam today, you don't have to wait till tomorrow!
Millions of youngsters voted I suspect, encouraged by a a very aggressive online campaign and 'at school' lobbying by their peers and teachers. Just about every teacher I know is a staunch Labour voter.
The inept campaign and 'care' issues didn't help, but as KL has pointed out, it's the Generation Snowflake voter numbers that has been the primary reason for the Labour surge.
A generation which has no recall of Corbyn and his stooges 30 years of unequivocal support to Britain's enemies, and no concept of how a country pays for all of the things the young people want for free.
A generation which has no recall of Corbyn and his stooges 30 years of unequivocal support to Britain's enemies, and no concept of how a country pays for all of the things the young people want for free.
Both in equal measure has scuppered the Tories.Unbelievable faux pas by May to try and shaft her core vote.Whoever advised her to fck the elderly should be picking up their P45 this morning.
I think there was a lot of arrogance and naivety in the campaign. They believed that Labour were very unelectable.
They made some right howlers and u-turns.
They treated the manifesto more like the unpopular budget a new in-power government would pursue. They didn't seem to realise
that you don't have to talk honestly about bad news stories like old age care. You just avoid them and promise
jam. Which is what labour did.
They made some right howlers and u-turns.
They treated the manifesto more like the unpopular budget a new in-power government would pursue. They didn't seem to realise
that you don't have to talk honestly about bad news stories like old age care. You just avoid them and promise
jam. Which is what labour did.
May's unwillingness to debate Tory policies and past record didn't help and a full frontal attack on OAP's and the sick was suicidal.
Do people really understand the direction of the Tories?
good point callisto - the tory lot have become very liberal of late (hug and hoody and gay marriages) for instance.
but I think nationalising utilities is quite a popular one for Labour to go with
but I think nationalising utilities is quite a popular one for Labour to go with
Would it get past the Monopolies and Mergers Commission???!!!
sometimes the ends justify the means. A hard brexit was not the situation that big business (cheap labour), the wealthy (who will serve my coffee in Pret a Mange?) or the political elite with their dreams of a European Utopia wanted. By making a complete pigs ear of the Tory campaign the stronger mandate for a "hard brexit" was not obtained and has been nullified!. Mrs May, a remainer by nature, can now try and square the circle of pleasing the powers that be whilst keeping her brexiteer back-benchers in their place with her "reduced" power to negotiate with the EU. Mrs May will be toast by the end of the year but this sacrificial lamb of a Prime Minister has played a blinder for those whose desire it was to remain in the EU.
Not taking part in the debates where she should have been tearing apart Jezzas fantasy manifesto. Smacked of arrogance and taking the public for granted. Thought she had enough of a lead and the opposition was so weak she could do what she wanted re. her policies.
with the young seeing their voter makes a difference even more will sign up and vote labour absolute certainty that the tories will have free tuition fees in their next manifesto,think mays ill or lost it giving speeches as though she,s done nothing wrong,she surely wont be sent to conduct brexit talks after this horlicks
Yes arrogant and stupid, that Westminster 'bubble' seems to inflate egos while being impervious to the real world and common sense.
Never seen a shambles of a campaign like the one conducted in the last 3 weeks, she was just talking at people not to them, people can only take the same old 'soundbites' for so long before giving up on the person uttering them.
As for the 'Care Plan', she stabbed her strongest voters in the back, as far as I can see. In all honesty I'm delighted she didn't the result she wanted, too many would have suffered if she did.
Never seen a shambles of a campaign like the one conducted in the last 3 weeks, she was just talking at people not to them, people can only take the same old 'soundbites' for so long before giving up on the person uttering them.
As for the 'Care Plan', she stabbed her strongest voters in the back, as far as I can see. In all honesty I'm delighted she didn't the result she wanted, too many would have suffered if she did.
the bubble still don't get that newspapers are going bankrupt and very few people sit their reading the front page of the time,s,mail,telegraph whilst watching skynews,they get their news on social media
Her lunchtime speech outside No.10 was astonishing, she's acting like nothing has changed, but she is now running a Minority Govt. 'Bloody difficult woman' (bloody arrogant woman !!!), this has gone so unbelievably wrong for her !
Who could be next Tory leader IF she goes:
Boris Johnson - 11/4
David Davis - - 6/1
Amber Rudd - - 8/1
Phillip Hammond - 14/1
Who could be next Tory leader IF she goes:
Boris Johnson - 11/4
David Davis - - 6/1
Amber Rudd - - 8/1
Phillip Hammond - 14/1
Jeremy connected with the future generation and offered hope , the tories offered personal attacks and nothing else but fear
Jeremy connected with the future generation and offered hope
Indeed he did. He also offered them a lot of free things to them that other people will be paying for. Always a vote-winning strategy. Unfortunately governments like that always run out of other people's money.
Indeed he did. He also offered them a lot of free things to them that other people will be paying for. Always a vote-winning strategy. Unfortunately governments like that always run out of other people's money.
Look accept what happened , the prime minister called the election with breathtaking arragonce in the assumption it was a walkover , the tories need to stop and think about their deluded idea of a god- given right to rule our country , if theirs another election soon Jeremy will win
I fully accept the verdict of the electorate thanks.
I'm not one of those left-leaning sorts who way to re-run elections when the result isn't to their liking.
I'm not one of those left-leaning sorts who way to re-run elections when the result isn't to their liking.
Indeed accept the result and perhaps next time the tories wont resort to a campaign on such a disgraceful personal attacks the leader of the Labour Party , they perhaps should try debating the issues and offering people a postive vision not a negative hate filled mesage
I'm not one of those left-leaning sorts who way to re-run elections when the result isn't to their liking.
like theresa may ?
like theresa may ?
May made a basic error in that she. thought that giving an INCREASE, from £23000 to £100,000, in the amount you would keep after care fees would be gratefully received. However, not many voters knew about it in the first place - only the people currently affected. So older people who had saved and bought their own home and their family who would hope to inherit were disgusted. Also all the people currently getting home free were also horrified.
She gambled everything on her strength and stability then wobbled badly, millenials feel entitled and Corbyn offered them free stuff.
She's surely toast I just hope they get someone good next and don't get another weak one.
Who gives a crap a bout debates, they are modern invention. The media love them because the media get to talk about them, that's all.
Why should she get equal billing with someone like that Green idiot or that awful Plaid woman or Angus "P45" Robertson?
Maybe she should have agreed to a three way (ooh err) with Corbyn and the Libs. 7 people shouting over each other is a shambles.
Name one thing you learned from the debates they had? (and don't say "May doesn't like them", it's not clever).
She's surely toast I just hope they get someone good next and don't get another weak one.
Who gives a crap a bout debates, they are modern invention. The media love them because the media get to talk about them, that's all.
Why should she get equal billing with someone like that Green idiot or that awful Plaid woman or Angus "P45" Robertson?
Maybe she should have agreed to a three way (ooh err) with Corbyn and the Libs. 7 people shouting over each other is a shambles.
Name one thing you learned from the debates they had? (and don't say "May doesn't like them", it's not clever).
For me the fact she wouldn't go on TV debates didn't sit well with me, I understand she had all to lose and nothing to gain if she performed badly. But then stand by your convictions.
The social care package for me was a big factor also, not the plan itself but the way she folded four days later. Hardly smacked of a strong negotiater. And then fox hunting 8 out of 10 people are against it so way bring up spoiling Basil Brush's day.
Due to any substantial leadership race we did not know the character of the woman........which as a Tory it seems very little to me.
Great shame the yut didn't come out to vote in the referendum had they while I wouldn't of been happy at least Cameron would be PM and we wouldn't be in the upcoming mess we're going to find ourselves in.
Going back to the yut what they don't realise is what they get free today they'll pay for tomorrow, next years and for decades to come. Won't be me I'll be dead
The social care package for me was a big factor also, not the plan itself but the way she folded four days later. Hardly smacked of a strong negotiater. And then fox hunting 8 out of 10 people are against it so way bring up spoiling Basil Brush's day.
Due to any substantial leadership race we did not know the character of the woman........which as a Tory it seems very little to me.
Great shame the yut didn't come out to vote in the referendum had they while I wouldn't of been happy at least Cameron would be PM and we wouldn't be in the upcoming mess we're going to find ourselves in.
Going back to the yut what they don't realise is what they get free today they'll pay for tomorrow, next years and for decades to come. Won't be me I'll be dead
Dont worry Dan Jeremy will make sure your looked after , you wont have to rely on BUPA 
Fear of losing the £200 fuel allowance, would get many Labour voters off their death beds and see them crawling a mile on broken glass to vote if they thought they could preserve getting an amount such as that.
No wonder they turned out in their numbers to vote for the commie.
No wonder they turned out in their numbers to vote for the commie.
Agree fully with Just Checking re TV debates. Polls another nuisance.
The 'U turn cap' was as usual not thought through. Simply saying oh but we have increased the amount the homeowner keeps to 100,000!! is so simplistic it's insulting. 30 years ago the 'cap' represented 30.2% of the value (price )of my London (Ealing) house. Money spent on improvements/extensions etc meant the true amount protected equalled 23.6% of the total cost that year.The new 'cap' represents just 14.2% of the current value, despite the additional value added at the owners expense.Another Bl00dy con, and proof that successive Governments have been robbing homeowners blind for the last 30 years.
If anyone can be bothered to look they might find that the national house price average gives a different figure.
Oh OK then, a quick search showed me that the 1982 average cap would guarantee the home owner 50.9% of the equity protected, the 2012 'cap guaranteed 8.4% FFS.
There would of course be losers and bigger losers depending on location, and amount spent on improving/modernising etc which of course add value to the initial purchase price A one size fits all (usual Whitehall) approach really beggars belief.
I understand that a decision of the amount the cap would protect needed to be presented, so why not a % of current value, Am I being too simplistic???
If anyone can be bothered to look they might find that the national house price average gives a different figure.
Oh OK then, a quick search showed me that the 1982 average cap would guarantee the home owner 50.9% of the equity protected, the 2012 'cap guaranteed 8.4% FFS.
There would of course be losers and bigger losers depending on location, and amount spent on improving/modernising etc which of course add value to the initial purchase price A one size fits all (usual Whitehall) approach really beggars belief.
I understand that a decision of the amount the cap would protect needed to be presented, so why not a % of current value, Am I being too simplistic???
He also offered them a lot of free things to them that other people will be paying for. Always a vote-winning strategy. Unfortunately governments like that always run out of other people's money.
you mean like the current 60+ who will be drawing pensions for decades out of all proportion to the contributions they made and that younger working people will have to subsidise?
you mean like the current 60+ who will be drawing pensions for decades out of all proportion to the contributions they made and that younger working people will have to subsidise?
So you are in favour of the state pension being in proportion to contributions? Good, I would get more and the feckless would get nothing.
Crazy Tory manifesto and campaign.
Whoever focuses on negative issues? Why mention social care, national insurance, means testing winter fuel, pensions - even fox hunting.
Labour focus on extra bank holidays, no student fees, capping rail fares, free wi-fi, ban fracking, more money for NHS, outlaw zero contracts, minimum wage £10, triple lock, rent caps,
christ, I hadn't even bothered reading it before...but just looking at it...there are lots more
scrap 'bedroom tax'
reinstate housing benefit for under 21s
reduce voting age to 16
more police
defence spending 2% of GDP
How nice to be able to afford to do all that!
Whoever focuses on negative issues? Why mention social care, national insurance, means testing winter fuel, pensions - even fox hunting.
Labour focus on extra bank holidays, no student fees, capping rail fares, free wi-fi, ban fracking, more money for NHS, outlaw zero contracts, minimum wage £10, triple lock, rent caps,
christ, I hadn't even bothered reading it before...but just looking at it...there are lots more
scrap 'bedroom tax'
reinstate housing benefit for under 21s
reduce voting age to 16
more police
defence spending 2% of GDP
How nice to be able to afford to do all that!
I do think the care plans were a big factor, not sure how much because old people are generally more to the right than left but it would have sent them into an apopleptic rage.
I think University fees was a big vote winner and also the destruction of the NHS
On a lesser note I think some Privatisation plans may have brought some ambivalent Labour Lefties back into the fold.
One thing that is interesting is that Parliament and Media have made it all about soft and hard Brexit. I am not sure this is the case. I'd suggest that most people who voted first time or changed their vote do not have an inkling of what hard or soft Brexit is or quite frankly cared during the Election Campaign.
What is interesting is if Labours " Big Guns " ( really? ) decide there may be some scope for their political ambitions to jump on the Jezza Express. I mean the public could not imagine a Diane Abbot as Home Secretary.
I thought the winner in the Campaign was the realisation that " the many " finally realised it was not about " the few ". Labour would do well to come to this realisation too and as they did in the Election Campaign, stay out of the Brexit War and concentrate on " the many |".
I think University fees was a big vote winner and also the destruction of the NHS
On a lesser note I think some Privatisation plans may have brought some ambivalent Labour Lefties back into the fold.
One thing that is interesting is that Parliament and Media have made it all about soft and hard Brexit. I am not sure this is the case. I'd suggest that most people who voted first time or changed their vote do not have an inkling of what hard or soft Brexit is or quite frankly cared during the Election Campaign.
What is interesting is if Labours " Big Guns " ( really? ) decide there may be some scope for their political ambitions to jump on the Jezza Express. I mean the public could not imagine a Diane Abbot as Home Secretary.
I thought the winner in the Campaign was the realisation that " the many " finally realised it was not about " the few ". Labour would do well to come to this realisation too and as they did in the Election Campaign, stay out of the Brexit War and concentrate on " the many |".
of course the torys should have presented this as a policy for the younger generation ,telling them in future if I and the torys continue to rule most of you wont be able to afford a house so you wont be effected,
Care plan reforms were easily defensible but no-one from the Tory side wanted to defend them. I'm not saying it was the right policy but it is arguably better than the current situation.
But one whiff of a hostile press and Theresa May went straight from headline to U-turn. From strong and stable to weak and wobbly.
But one whiff of a hostile press and Theresa May went straight from headline to U-turn. From strong and stable to weak and wobbly.
say it again 99% of people who,d be effected by this policy. like inheritance tax will have taken measures to make sure they don't get caught in the net,even if the bill passed the money raised wouldn't even be a fig leaf to cover the cost of social care, now if someone had brought in a bill saying houses passed on to kids to avoid inher tax would be sold I could see the outcry
annie. 11 Jun 17 19:23
May made a basic error in that she. thought that giving an INCREASE, from £23000 to £100,000, in the amount you would keep after care fees would be gratefully received. However, not many voters knew about it in the first place - only the people currently affected. So older people who had saved and bought their own home and their family who would hope to inherit were disgusted. Also all the people currently getting home free were also horrified.
No Tory, when interviewed, confirmed the reality of the new calculation. They all referred to the increase to £100,000 from £23,000 of monies retained after paying for residential care. What they didn't state was the value of persons home would now be included in the calculation of care in the persons home.
Of the 15 million people over 65, only 300,000 are in residential care. So all needing care in their own home, their house value would be stripped down to £100,000max ( total assets).
May made a basic error in that she. thought that giving an INCREASE, from £23000 to £100,000, in the amount you would keep after care fees would be gratefully received. However, not many voters knew about it in the first place - only the people currently affected. So older people who had saved and bought their own home and their family who would hope to inherit were disgusted. Also all the people currently getting home free were also horrified.
No Tory, when interviewed, confirmed the reality of the new calculation. They all referred to the increase to £100,000 from £23,000 of monies retained after paying for residential care. What they didn't state was the value of persons home would now be included in the calculation of care in the persons home.
Of the 15 million people over 65, only 300,000 are in residential care. So all needing care in their own home, their house value would be stripped down to £100,000max ( total assets).
its a shameful and dangerous policy, she deserved to lose the election for that alone.
Would have voted labour only for the fact of Corbyns Sinn Fein/IRA tendencies.
Would have voted labour only for the fact of Corbyns Sinn Fein/IRA tendencies.
with the loyalist apologists now wagging the westminister tail,your going to be mighty confused at the next GE,
there like them African despots as there country gets poorer and poverty higher they argue about which and how many days they can march or fly flags on
Her abject performances on the stump and on TV, and her supine refusal to take part in any debates did for her as much as any policy.
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