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How do you get over the problem of Corbyn and McDonnell having past links to the IRA and some of the things they have said over the years? McDonnell advocating murdering the British government with bombs etc, and Diane Abbott with that quote about victory for the IRA over the British state being a victory for all of us etc?
I ask this genuinely, not to cause an argument, because as a pensioner I quite like the sound of some Labour policies, but my conscience couldn't allow me to vote for people who have held those beliefs. To me, any justification on the grounds they have apologised and it was a long time ago, some things like that are unforgivable.
I ask this genuinely, not to cause an argument, because as a pensioner I quite like the sound of some Labour policies, but my conscience couldn't allow me to vote for people who have held those beliefs. To me, any justification on the grounds they have apologised and it was a long time ago, some things like that are unforgivable.
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I missed a few words at the end. I meant to write...
To me, any justification on the grounds they have apologised and it was a long time ago is a very weak argument. Leopards don't change their spots and some things like that are unforgivable.
To me, any justification on the grounds they have apologised and it was a long time ago is a very weak argument. Leopards don't change their spots and some things like that are unforgivable.
People get over things, Ian Paisley did for the better good. I'll be voting for the policies. How anyone can vote for May is beyond me. A total lightweight who is out of her depth.
crystalhunt
Will you be voting to bankrupt Briton, they came very close to doing so last time.
Will you be voting to bankrupt Briton, they came very close to doing so last time.
Thats an unfair charge to level at them last time - it was simply inevitable with events in the global economy.
There have been no shortage of smears against Corben for purported links with the IRA, but precious little evidence - to me it looks like propoganda, and shouldnt be consideration in this election
There have been no shortage of smears against Corben for purported links with the IRA, but precious little evidence - to me it looks like propoganda, and shouldnt be consideration in this election
And photographs of politicians in the same room as other politicians isn't evidence of anything
What about McDonnell advocating murdering people with bombs? How do you square that away? And I don't accept that sympathetic view of Corbyn's links to the IRA. Going to one or two of their rallies and meeting might be forgivable on political grounds, but he attended dozens and dozens. The man was an IRA sympathiser, it's as simple as that. I can't vote for his party, for someone of my age who lived through the bombings in my city (Manchester) it would be unthinkable.
Daying that the Tory standing in Croydon aint much better 
Tory's have added one trillion, 1000 billion in national debt in seven years.
A balanced Budget my 'arris.
that's not fiscally responsible - That's a drug addict, stealin off his Granny.
A balanced Budget my 'arris.
that's not fiscally responsible - That's a drug addict, stealin off his Granny.
1000 billion? Cost that for me please. You're saying we borrowed 1000 billion over and above what taxes produced during the last 7 years? The NHS is under funded, police under funded, social services underfunded, defence underfunded, benefits underfunded... so, collect tax revenues from a nation of 65 million people for 7 years and add 1000 billion pound to it and, at the end of that, every aspect of public life is still struggling to make ends meet? We have a problem.
stop giving it away in handouts to multinationals and high earners
Yep, TGV, it's true.
HS2 is going ahead though dropping bombs on places costs billions over the years.
What we used to own is now money we no longer get in.
Most of the money saved on benefits went to the organisation who oversaw it, for example.
Manufacturing output is dwindled and foreign ownership of companies is at ridiculous levels.
Oh and the biggest firms take all the little firms' business and don't pay tax.
1.7 trillion IS the national debt.
HS2 is going ahead though dropping bombs on places costs billions over the years.
What we used to own is now money we no longer get in.
Most of the money saved on benefits went to the organisation who oversaw it, for example.
Manufacturing output is dwindled and foreign ownership of companies is at ridiculous levels.
Oh and the biggest firms take all the little firms' business and don't pay tax.
1.7 trillion IS the national debt.
"Most of the money saved on benefits went to the organisation who oversaw it,"
Spot on.
Spot on.
one trillion added to national debt since 2010
Are they reducing debt?
well if you are a tory voter the answer is yes.
if you are insane, in a rubber room the answer is yes.
if you understand numbers the answer is no.
Are they reducing debt?
well if you are a tory voter the answer is yes.
if you are insane, in a rubber room the answer is yes.
if you understand numbers the answer is no.
here is classic BS - it's from Labour this time?
they are taking two billion quid to look at benefits?
what needs changing?
so loads of committees and paperwork, instead of feeding that two billion into payments?
more waste.
it's like me taking a taxi to buy a kitkat at the petrol garage a few miles away?
spend a tenner on a 50p chocobar.
Tories give you nothing for your buck. we save money lies(1 trillion added)
labour gives you schools, hospitals, possible free education.
they are taking two billion quid to look at benefits?
what needs changing?
so loads of committees and paperwork, instead of feeding that two billion into payments?
more waste.
it's like me taking a taxi to buy a kitkat at the petrol garage a few miles away?
spend a tenner on a 50p chocobar.
Tories give you nothing for your buck. we save money lies(1 trillion added)
labour gives you schools, hospitals, possible free education.
if Gideon could turn the clock back 7years and put into practice all he has learned about saving the country money and put it into practice today,and insert his 2010 defecit plan into todays manifesto promising to clear the defecit by the end of this parliament .he.d still be a good few years ahead of hammonds plan even taking into account 7 years of failure.such has been the complete failure of the torys defecit promise in 2010
labour added 550 billion in thirteen years.(including worldwide financial crash) bailing out banks.
SCUM BLUES added 650 in seven years. two years after the financial crash.
sold post office(scandal of underselling). tried to sell the forests, sold something else i cant remember, thank FK.
SCUM BLUES added 650 in seven years. two years after the financial crash.
sold post office(scandal of underselling). tried to sell the forests, sold something else i cant remember, thank FK.
Whilst much of what is written above may be true, what has any of it got to do with the original question about Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbott and their views on the IRA?
The answer of course is NOTHING and therein lies the problem. Many just want to deflect that elephant in the room and talk about something else. Honestly, I believe I personally would probably be better off if Labour won as I'm a relatively poor pensioner, but my conscience won't allow me to vote for them with IRA sympathisers in charge.
The answer of course is NOTHING and therein lies the problem. Many just want to deflect that elephant in the room and talk about something else. Honestly, I believe I personally would probably be better off if Labour won as I'm a relatively poor pensioner, but my conscience won't allow me to vote for them with IRA sympathisers in charge.
Corbyn is a man born into the sort of wealth and privilege which enables you to skip education, yet still enjoy a comfy life insulated from reality (two grade E's in his A levels, after all that expensive prep school and grammar school education FFS). He has no idea whatsoever of the misery terrorists and revolutionaries inflict on ordinary people, because right from his childhood, in that great big manor house in the country, he has never had to live the life of an ordinary person. Hence his ignorant love of Republican murderers (the IRA) and Islamic murderers (Hamas and Hezbollah).
The only proper, paid job outside politics he seems to have had since leaving school is working as an interviewer on Iranian state television (Press TV).
His backers in Momentum are similarly privileged and wealthy overgrown children. Seumas Milne isn't just a neo-Stalinist. He's an admirer of Stalin and his actions full stop.
The problem is that there are now a couple of generations of voters who actually think communism just means four extra bank holidays and, er, well, can't be worse than the Tories, can it, like?
The only proper, paid job outside politics he seems to have had since leaving school is working as an interviewer on Iranian state television (Press TV).
His backers in Momentum are similarly privileged and wealthy overgrown children. Seumas Milne isn't just a neo-Stalinist. He's an admirer of Stalin and his actions full stop.
The problem is that there are now a couple of generations of voters who actually think communism just means four extra bank holidays and, er, well, can't be worse than the Tories, can it, like?
defecit is just more money borrowed, more added to national debt, and into the pockets
of the better off and foreign nationals by tax cuts
of the better off and foreign nationals by tax cuts
they're hopeless liberal peaceniks - not sympathizers .
it's hippies.
it's hippies.
No, "anxious". It's a bash-the-privileged and bash-the-middle-class communists post. Because it's the privileged and the middle-class communists, and what they think is good for you, which will be controlling every aspect of your life under Corbyn and his controllers.
That's how they see their mission: conform and share their beliefs or else ... well, the history of the IRA, Islamic terrorism and Josef Stalin tells us what the "or else" is.
That's how they see their mission: conform and share their beliefs or else ... well, the history of the IRA, Islamic terrorism and Josef Stalin tells us what the "or else" is.
Voting Labour isn't worth the risk. Of course they have some good ideas.
Yet we know that they always go to far once the spending gets underway, it's like riding a pig. They simply can't stop.
Yet we know that they always go to far once the spending gets underway, it's like riding a pig. They simply can't stop.
these tories are riding a pig, they have borrowed even more, whilst slashing services
staggering
staggering
No screaming its bash the banks , the Establishment , the biased right wing press , the private rip off cowboy firms , the Tory Lie Machine etc that's what needs bashing to give us Our Country back
Labour have £250 billion of spending planned straight away.
That's before they've even thought about boosting benefits as a thank you to their core supporters.
Unlimited immigration, world NHS service, better off on benefits than in work.
Same old Labour.
That's before they've even thought about boosting benefits as a thank you to their core supporters.
Unlimited immigration, world NHS service, better off on benefits than in work.
Same old Labour.
Yes and Chairman May privatising the NHS , selling off oxygen if they could, Elitism in our schools, attacking the sick and disabled , leaving the pensioners in the cold , buying more weapons of mass destruction , helping their Private Cowboy rip off merchants mate ,
Same old Tories
Same old Tories
FatherMaguire 31 May 17 21:09 Joined: 25 Mar 04 | Topic/replies: 1,871 | Blogger: FatherMaguire's blog
There have been no shortage of smears against Corben for purported links with the IRA, but precious little evidence - to me it looks like propoganda, and shouldnt be consideration in this election
The first part of this article gives facts about Corbyn and the IRA with links to supporting evidence:
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/08/shouldnt-vote-jeremy-corbyn/
There have been no shortage of smears against Corben for purported links with the IRA, but precious little evidence - to me it looks like propoganda, and shouldnt be consideration in this election
The first part of this article gives facts about Corbyn and the IRA with links to supporting evidence:
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/08/shouldnt-vote-jeremy-corbyn/
Just in case you need reminding about life under labour;
The success of a Liebour government, measured in pain -
1) Up to 50 thousand 'excess' deaths were recorded at hospitals during the last Labour Goverment. (Research by Sir Brian Jarman of Imperial College).
2) Hundreds of stealth taxes, paid by all.
3) Between 1997 to 2010 gas prices rose 133% and electricity prices rose 69%. Why would the public ever trust Labour on energy prices again?.
4) The devastating impact of Labour's raid on pensions: The tax grab has cost workers £118bn no since 1997. (Office for Budget Responsibility).
5) Labour spent £148.7 million on a National Measurements Office which forces traders to measure their goods in kilograms rather than pounds.
6) The Royal Mail is now sold because of EU Postal Directive 2008/6/EC, brought in by the last Labour government.
7) Council Tax doubled under Labour - 105% increase in England, 146% Wales. (The Chartered Institute of Public Finance & Accountancy: 26/03/09).
8) In 2012/13 Labour councils employed nearly 23,000 people on zero-hour contracts.
9) £660 million has been cut from Labour run NHS Wales over the last three years according to the Welsh TUC.
10) When Labour came to power in 1997, spending on NHS managers was less than £190m. By 2010 this had increased by 450% to over £1bn per year.
11) Labour wasted £11bn of taxpayers money on a failed IT project which was eventually scrapped by the NHS in 2013.
12) Labour lumbered the NHS with vast PFI repayments - £50 billion worth of loans which are costing £300 billion in repayments.
13) It was the Labour Party who awarded the DWP Medical Services Contract to ATOS on the 15th March 2005.
14) Labour started the privatisation of the NHS. They brought in the 2006 NHS Act that introduced competition into the NHS.
15) Labour introduced competition into the NHS: Competition Act 1998, Enterprise Act 2002 & Public Sector Procurement Regulations 2006.
16) In 2006 Gordon Brown cut the flood defence budget by £14 million.
17) Youth unemployment rose by more than 40% during Labour's 13 years in office.
18) Total stock of social housing fell under Labour - 421,000 homes were lost from the social housing stock between 1997 and 2010.
19) British manufacturing grew by 28% between 1980 and 1997. Then, under Labour, it shrank by 6%: falling from 20% of GDP to just 11%.
20) Labour left a deficit of £156 billion, PFI liability of £301 billion, EU Rebate loss £9.3 billion, Sold the Gold loss £6 billion.
21) The last Labour government spent so much money on Labour cronies that it had a 5% structural deficit at the height of the boom.
22)
The use of food banks went up tenfold under Labour. From 3,000 users in 2005/06 to over 40,000 by 2009/10. (The Trussell Trust/C4 FactCheck).
23) When Labour's Gordon Brown became Prime Minister in 2007, UK public debt was 44.1% of GDP. When he left in 2010, it was 148.1%.
24) Only 6,330 council houses were completed from 1998 to 2010 under Labour, compared with 17,710 in 1990 alone - Thatcher's final year as PM.
25) Tony Blair gave away a chunk of the UK's EU rebate estimated now to have cost the UK £9.3 billion between 2007-2013.
26) In 2010 Gordon Brown branded Rochdale voter Gillian Duffy "a bigoted woman" for daring to voice her concern about uncontrolled immigration.
27) Labour are now complaining about gambling. But they were the ones who wanted to build Super Casinos in some of the poorest areas in Britain.
28) Labour closed more mines in 5 years than Thatcher did in 11 years.. 211 mines closed under Wilson 1965-70.. 154 under Thatcher 1979-90.
29) Under Labour zero hour contracts increased by 74% between 2004 - 2009.
30) Since Labour liberalised the law in 2000 to allow postal voting on demand, the number of postal voting fraud in Labour areas has soared.
31) Labour wants to charge patients. Lord Warner said people should pay a £10-a-month fee to use NHS/£20 for every night they stay in hospital.
32) Sexed up dossiers.
33) Labour were responsible for the rise in payday lenders. Now they are campaigning against them.
34) Labour presided over the slowest growth in 50 years and produced the fastest decline in British manufacturing since manufacturing began.
35) Labour destroyed our border controls then with the help of the BBC denounced anybody who voiced concerns about mass immigration as racists.
36) Labour councils are the biggest users of zero hour contracts.
37) Under Labour between 1997 to 2010 the gap between rich and poor got wider.
38) The last Labour government doubled the rate of income tax on the lowest paid.
39) Thousands of dead Iraqi women and children.
40) Labour MPs to remember: Denis MacShane (jailed), David Chaytor (jailed), Eric Illsley (jailed), Elliot Morley (jailed), Jim Devine (jailed).
41) Blair invaded Iraq and Brown invaded the Treasury, both actions crippled us.
42) Labour opposes democracy in Britain by denying the British people a referendum on EU membership.
43) Labour Party Manifesto Pledge 2001: 'We will not introduce top-up fees'.
44) One of the reasons for high energy prices is EU driven 'Green Taxes' brought in by the last Labour government.
45) It was Labour under Blair who handed control of British food regulation to the EU, (Regulation EC no 178/2002).
46) Remember when Tony Blair and Labour essentially traded guns for access to oil with Libya.
47) The Labour Party paid only £14,000 in tax in 2013, on total income of £33.3 million. (The Spectator, 30/07/
48) A systematic Antisemitism that runs rife throughout the Party.
49) Weapons of mass distraction.
50) Rotherham 1400 plus girls known to be groomed by Muslims & covered up by the council & police & left to Continue for years
The success of a Liebour government, measured in pain -
1) Up to 50 thousand 'excess' deaths were recorded at hospitals during the last Labour Goverment. (Research by Sir Brian Jarman of Imperial College).
2) Hundreds of stealth taxes, paid by all.
3) Between 1997 to 2010 gas prices rose 133% and electricity prices rose 69%. Why would the public ever trust Labour on energy prices again?.
4) The devastating impact of Labour's raid on pensions: The tax grab has cost workers £118bn no since 1997. (Office for Budget Responsibility).
5) Labour spent £148.7 million on a National Measurements Office which forces traders to measure their goods in kilograms rather than pounds.
6) The Royal Mail is now sold because of EU Postal Directive 2008/6/EC, brought in by the last Labour government.
7) Council Tax doubled under Labour - 105% increase in England, 146% Wales. (The Chartered Institute of Public Finance & Accountancy: 26/03/09).
8) In 2012/13 Labour councils employed nearly 23,000 people on zero-hour contracts.
9) £660 million has been cut from Labour run NHS Wales over the last three years according to the Welsh TUC.
10) When Labour came to power in 1997, spending on NHS managers was less than £190m. By 2010 this had increased by 450% to over £1bn per year.
11) Labour wasted £11bn of taxpayers money on a failed IT project which was eventually scrapped by the NHS in 2013.
12) Labour lumbered the NHS with vast PFI repayments - £50 billion worth of loans which are costing £300 billion in repayments.
13) It was the Labour Party who awarded the DWP Medical Services Contract to ATOS on the 15th March 2005.
14) Labour started the privatisation of the NHS. They brought in the 2006 NHS Act that introduced competition into the NHS.
15) Labour introduced competition into the NHS: Competition Act 1998, Enterprise Act 2002 & Public Sector Procurement Regulations 2006.
16) In 2006 Gordon Brown cut the flood defence budget by £14 million.
17) Youth unemployment rose by more than 40% during Labour's 13 years in office.
18) Total stock of social housing fell under Labour - 421,000 homes were lost from the social housing stock between 1997 and 2010.
19) British manufacturing grew by 28% between 1980 and 1997. Then, under Labour, it shrank by 6%: falling from 20% of GDP to just 11%.
20) Labour left a deficit of £156 billion, PFI liability of £301 billion, EU Rebate loss £9.3 billion, Sold the Gold loss £6 billion.
21) The last Labour government spent so much money on Labour cronies that it had a 5% structural deficit at the height of the boom.
22)
The use of food banks went up tenfold under Labour. From 3,000 users in 2005/06 to over 40,000 by 2009/10. (The Trussell Trust/C4 FactCheck).
23) When Labour's Gordon Brown became Prime Minister in 2007, UK public debt was 44.1% of GDP. When he left in 2010, it was 148.1%.
24) Only 6,330 council houses were completed from 1998 to 2010 under Labour, compared with 17,710 in 1990 alone - Thatcher's final year as PM.
25) Tony Blair gave away a chunk of the UK's EU rebate estimated now to have cost the UK £9.3 billion between 2007-2013.
26) In 2010 Gordon Brown branded Rochdale voter Gillian Duffy "a bigoted woman" for daring to voice her concern about uncontrolled immigration.
27) Labour are now complaining about gambling. But they were the ones who wanted to build Super Casinos in some of the poorest areas in Britain.
28) Labour closed more mines in 5 years than Thatcher did in 11 years.. 211 mines closed under Wilson 1965-70.. 154 under Thatcher 1979-90.
29) Under Labour zero hour contracts increased by 74% between 2004 - 2009.
30) Since Labour liberalised the law in 2000 to allow postal voting on demand, the number of postal voting fraud in Labour areas has soared.
31) Labour wants to charge patients. Lord Warner said people should pay a £10-a-month fee to use NHS/£20 for every night they stay in hospital.
32) Sexed up dossiers.
33) Labour were responsible for the rise in payday lenders. Now they are campaigning against them.
34) Labour presided over the slowest growth in 50 years and produced the fastest decline in British manufacturing since manufacturing began.
35) Labour destroyed our border controls then with the help of the BBC denounced anybody who voiced concerns about mass immigration as racists.
36) Labour councils are the biggest users of zero hour contracts.
37) Under Labour between 1997 to 2010 the gap between rich and poor got wider.
38) The last Labour government doubled the rate of income tax on the lowest paid.
39) Thousands of dead Iraqi women and children.
40) Labour MPs to remember: Denis MacShane (jailed), David Chaytor (jailed), Eric Illsley (jailed), Elliot Morley (jailed), Jim Devine (jailed).
41) Blair invaded Iraq and Brown invaded the Treasury, both actions crippled us.
42) Labour opposes democracy in Britain by denying the British people a referendum on EU membership.
43) Labour Party Manifesto Pledge 2001: 'We will not introduce top-up fees'.
44) One of the reasons for high energy prices is EU driven 'Green Taxes' brought in by the last Labour government.
45) It was Labour under Blair who handed control of British food regulation to the EU, (Regulation EC no 178/2002).
46) Remember when Tony Blair and Labour essentially traded guns for access to oil with Libya.
47) The Labour Party paid only £14,000 in tax in 2013, on total income of £33.3 million. (The Spectator, 30/07/
48) A systematic Antisemitism that runs rife throughout the Party.
49) Weapons of mass distraction.
50) Rotherham 1400 plus girls known to be groomed by Muslims & covered up by the council & police & left to Continue for years
Can't vote for someone who wants to break up the union, can't be trusted imo.
for us who are party members, Anxious, Blair's and Brown's years are very embarrassing to us!!
This is why we now have corbyn. There's some horrendous c0ck ups on that list.
Mind you the tories have more than doubled the debt for us.
This is why we now have corbyn. There's some horrendous c0ck ups on that list.
Mind you the tories have more than doubled the debt for us.
Moisok nobody can pretend those years were perfect no , im sure we could come with 50 or so more ricks from the Tories in the last 7 years , apart from the debt , the rise of Wonga Wonga , the creation of Food Banks , the u-turns , the scandal of the atos , maximus and the DWP, the banks getting away scot free from he 2008 crash
Bit pointless discussing really as some will vote labour no matter what. Rotherham alone should have been enough to weigh on peoples conscience regards Labour but most don't bat an eyelid because they couldn't give a sh1t.
Nobody who is English should even consider voting for Corbyn and the rest of the mob.
Well I never lfc it was only last week you said you was considering voting for Jeremy 
but look at the food bank rise under LABOUR !!! just for starters, and surely setting up PFI has helped to stuff the NHS.
Would any other country in the world vote for a party like Labour, who in its very dna is anti British ?
No , they must think we are mad.
No , they must think we are mad.
anxious I do not consider myself to be British , or anything else anymore
I threat all such nationalistic questions with a steely silence.
I once was asked by a barber was I danish or Swedish
I threat all such nationalistic questions with a steely silence.
I once was asked by a barber was I danish or Swedish
But I think you was worried about your money lfc that's why you were thinking of deserting Chairman May
yes that's true anxious, money can establish connections and change opinions
I will try to make sure that if I vote for May she doesn't take my house away.
I will try to make sure that if I vote for May she doesn't take my house away.
We need to relax.Life's good. We've got a Sinn Fein ceasefire,all we need now are a muslim ceasefire and a labour government.Screw younger generations who pretend to be caring.(There are a few I concede who may be genuine).By the time i'm no longer around I want the fossil fuels gone and to have had a cushty old age paid for by the young and those not yet born.
No matter what we say we're all greedy barstewards, no matter how much we all pretend(even Tim Farron,Caroline Lucas and Dianne Abbott).If we can totally destroy the country it may be possible to end the immigration crisis.All those people who say they love us will leave and we will be culturally unenriched.
No matter what we say we're all greedy barstewards, no matter how much we all pretend(even Tim Farron,Caroline Lucas and Dianne Abbott).If we can totally destroy the country it may be possible to end the immigration crisis.All those people who say they love us will leave and we will be culturally unenriched.
I feel that once Labour was a political organisation, along with the unions to defend the 'working class'. This identifies with a certain group of mainly manual workers/blue collar/even some white collar. It is old fashioned and backward looking now. Kinnock and Blair tried to change it to realign but made a right old hooley of it by enacting 'tory lite' approaches.
In attempting to create an electable party 'tory lite' influences have badly damaged it.
I really do not know where we go from here. Half of our policies have great appeal such as nationalisation of utilities. But the pro eu/immigration and nuclear areas are a disaster.
It seems that we are still unable to fit in to what is essentially a capitalist society(although some would argue it isn't a pure one. Does one set out to limit its worst aspects or destroy it altogether?(good luck with that one).
Or do we find a third way. I do not have any answers, but I will say this.
There is a massive 'working class' and it isn't just the old version.
Nearly everyone in this country bar the very well off, are all WORKERS. From salaried consultant doctors to bus drivers.
Most are only a few months away from financial disaster. Most people are reliant on their job. Without it, you are out on the street so to speak.
I think a very careful look at that as a starting position would be a way to go.
Sorry - just thinking out loud.
In attempting to create an electable party 'tory lite' influences have badly damaged it.
I really do not know where we go from here. Half of our policies have great appeal such as nationalisation of utilities. But the pro eu/immigration and nuclear areas are a disaster.
It seems that we are still unable to fit in to what is essentially a capitalist society(although some would argue it isn't a pure one. Does one set out to limit its worst aspects or destroy it altogether?(good luck with that one).
Or do we find a third way. I do not have any answers, but I will say this.
There is a massive 'working class' and it isn't just the old version.
Nearly everyone in this country bar the very well off, are all WORKERS. From salaried consultant doctors to bus drivers.
Most are only a few months away from financial disaster. Most people are reliant on their job. Without it, you are out on the street so to speak.
I think a very careful look at that as a starting position would be a way to go.
Sorry - just thinking out loud.
Who's manning the foodbanks and supplying them do you think?
further to my thoughts out loud
A complete re vamp of representation needs to take place in the party.
The current PLP does not represent the members and hasn't since 1983.
A complete re vamp of representation needs to take place in the party.
The current PLP does not represent the members and hasn't since 1983.
Jeremy Corbyn fills in for regular presenters George Galloway and Ken Livingstone on Iranian state television. Corbyn was paid £20,000 by the Iranian government for this work. His last show (fee £5,000) was made and broadcast in 2012, after the station had been banned in our country for broadcasting the "confession" of a journalist obtained by torture. Corbyn was still happy to work for the channel.
Corbyn airs his views on Russia Today, the Kremlin propaganda channel. Corbyn has for years been one of the three western politicians, alongside Donald Trump and Marine Le Pen, who can always rely on V Putin's station to report his opinions to the world with respect and approval.
Corbyn airs his views on Russia Today, the Kremlin propaganda channel. Corbyn has for years been one of the three western politicians, alongside Donald Trump and Marine Le Pen, who can always rely on V Putin's station to report his opinions to the world with respect and approval.
If Labour get in, the food banks will continue to expand and flourish, despite how much they tax and borrow to bump up benefits.
Food banks are a way of life for many, they allow people to spend their benefit cash on other little luxuries like cigarettes, mobile phones and of course a drink or two.
Food banks are a way of life for many, they allow people to spend their benefit cash on other little luxuries like cigarettes, mobile phones and of course a drink or two.
The trouble with bashing Enemy of the state (JC) about his support for the IRA is it means nothing to the younger voters who Labour are targeting. My partners aunt who's in her 70s won't buy a Japanese car because of "What they did to our boys in the war" I think that's a ridiculous standpoint and things that happened in WW11 means nothing to me. Same principle 
Yes dan,
It was 19 years before enough had forgotten the Winter of discontent under Labour to get them elected again.
It was 19 years before enough had forgotten the Winter of discontent under Labour to get them elected again.
Incredible garbage being spouted .
Dr Crippen re foodbanks.. Shameful
Dr Crippen re foodbanks.. Shameful
Facts, you are a lovely guy but you do not live and I venture have never lived in communities where benefits are a way of life.
Dr Crippen is right. I know personally of several people who are not starving but use the food banks because they can spend more of their benefits on drugs and alcohol.
Dr Crippen is right. I know personally of several people who are not starving but use the food banks because they can spend more of their benefits on drugs and alcohol.
Thank you annie,
The image of foodbanks in the UK, has been adopted by the left as a kind of barometer of poverty when they're nothing of the sort.
If you supply a free service it creates its own demand, then the available supply dictates the demand.
The image of foodbanks in the UK, has been adopted by the left as a kind of barometer of poverty when they're nothing of the sort.
If you supply a free service it creates its own demand, then the available supply dictates the demand.
It's a bit like me. My missus said "If you win the lottery, what would you do about the begging letters" ? I gave it some thought and told her I'd still keep writing them 
Just think if was really rich I could pay less tax than I do now 
Tories have made a mess of things for sure...but what is the reason behind the lack of GDP growth( which is why the deficit has not gone down as much as they wanted) and also the reason for wage stagnation? Can this be blamed on them? How are Labour going to improve that?
Too many people in work that's the problem.
Labour would soon put that right.
Labour would soon put that right.
im voting LABOUR for more ISLAM............its the future
A list of 50 pieces of ridiculous propaganda and one of the biggest lists of crap I have EVER read.
For most of those 50 life under the Tories has been even worse.
Nearly all of them could be rebuttled and not a direct government policy, but mostly it would be easy for a list of 50 worse things the Tories of 1979-1997 did.
Also worth mentioning is that Labour wasn't Labour under Blair. Even its supporters would tell you that.
For most of those 50 life under the Tories has been even worse.
Nearly all of them could be rebuttled and not a direct government policy, but mostly it would be easy for a list of 50 worse things the Tories of 1979-1997 did.
Also worth mentioning is that Labour wasn't Labour under Blair. Even its supporters would tell you that.
Labour definitely isn't Labour under Corbyn and his Communist controllers.
The Labour Party is a socialist party - one that believes in democracy, in the rule of law and in markets that give everyone a chance to make something of their lives - both consumers and producers, workers and managers.
Corbyn, McDonnell, Seumas Milne etc. are not socialists. They are communists. They believe in crushing all dissent and reducing everyone to the role of a servant of the state - their state. They are against everything which makes life in a country like ours so attractive, which is why they get a thrill out of supporting anyone who's out to destroy it, whether it's Irish republicans, Islamic fundamentalists or short-arsed Russian dictators.
It's why for the first time in my life I'm voting against Labour this time. I'm a socialist. I'm not a sodding privileged, privately educated communist like Corbyn.
The Labour Party is a socialist party - one that believes in democracy, in the rule of law and in markets that give everyone a chance to make something of their lives - both consumers and producers, workers and managers.
Corbyn, McDonnell, Seumas Milne etc. are not socialists. They are communists. They believe in crushing all dissent and reducing everyone to the role of a servant of the state - their state. They are against everything which makes life in a country like ours so attractive, which is why they get a thrill out of supporting anyone who's out to destroy it, whether it's Irish republicans, Islamic fundamentalists or short-arsed Russian dictators.
It's why for the first time in my life I'm voting against Labour this time. I'm a socialist. I'm not a sodding privileged, privately educated communist like Corbyn.
Don't agree with that at all.
Still if we all agreed we'd have a dictator, wouldn't we?
Still if we all agreed we'd have a dictator, wouldn't we?
A lot of them aren't English, that's al you need to know.
Don't trust Corbyn with his quiet and reasonable tone , listen to the IRA and republican spokesmen ,
they used the same tactic .
they used the same tactic .
That's a game , they are thinking we are mugs and won't notice.
They might be right.
They might be right.
Theresa voted remain - Gove and Boris said lets do one - Gove then stuck in the knife and did for Boris leaving a pm who aint no iron lady to put it politely and yet people still believe she is gonna sort it all out
meanwhile I will say it again- the young/old/disabled/sick will be shafted again and all for the goodness of these people that do very well out of tory policies
#thefewnot
meanwhile I will say it again- the young/old/disabled/sick will be shafted again and all for the goodness of these people that do very well out of tory policies
#thefewnot
lfc are you still worrying about your old age , your money , and your Mansion 
if people are so unashamed of going to foodbanks and use them because they are there.why do 100,s of millions of pounds of benefits that people are entitled to go unclaimed every year because people wont go through the means tested system
more houses, more growth. decorating, furnishings, garden car, etc.
new cars(keeping up with the joneses)
more roads - more growth.
more of anything - genenerates growth.
shrinking back will just kill capitalism.
new cars(keeping up with the joneses)
more roads - more growth.
more of anything - genenerates growth.
shrinking back will just kill capitalism.
A continual requirement for growth within capitalism is down to a number of reasons, not least inflation and life expectancy increases. Obviously there is an elephant in the room called greed but euphemistically labelled 'ambition' so as to lesser it's scent, that rewards people in epically unequal proportions based on manipulation of the market and barefaced opportunism.
Corporations have legal rights as if they were people now and a subset of the population worship them, but what sort of person would the corporation be? Could it be considered charitable?....when it cares nothing about the good of the people and hires and fires for profit alone. Private corporations turn services into profitable vehicles and at every level create a problem for somebody downstream while rewarding a clique of minions who worship this particular one.
The rising tide that is the bi-product of profiteering effects all others, and the lowest paid/skilled has always been the one who was punished. While those were the feckless types who never did anything to help themselves and always took the easy route then this ideology worked.....but now we are far beyond this, the capitalist continuum of cyclic crashes looms closers again and like jenga will inevitably fail.
The water level doesn't effect just the feckless but those working damn hard because those without merit are stripping all the profit by fair means and foul. Not least is this down to advancing technology, that has always been argued creates a job for every job it kills, but has never been proven. Whatever else technology does it certainly makes low skilled work redundant and we are past the low hanging fruit, next to go will be the semi skilled.
Corporations have legal rights as if they were people now and a subset of the population worship them, but what sort of person would the corporation be? Could it be considered charitable?....when it cares nothing about the good of the people and hires and fires for profit alone. Private corporations turn services into profitable vehicles and at every level create a problem for somebody downstream while rewarding a clique of minions who worship this particular one.
The rising tide that is the bi-product of profiteering effects all others, and the lowest paid/skilled has always been the one who was punished. While those were the feckless types who never did anything to help themselves and always took the easy route then this ideology worked.....but now we are far beyond this, the capitalist continuum of cyclic crashes looms closers again and like jenga will inevitably fail.
The water level doesn't effect just the feckless but those working damn hard because those without merit are stripping all the profit by fair means and foul. Not least is this down to advancing technology, that has always been argued creates a job for every job it kills, but has never been proven. Whatever else technology does it certainly makes low skilled work redundant and we are past the low hanging fruit, next to go will be the semi skilled.
Screamingfrombeneaththewaves.
Thank you for your thoughts, which were very well put in my opinion and one of the very few on here who actually answered my question rather than try to deflect away from an uncomfortable subject for Labour supporters. I'll look out for your posts again. Very good.
Thank you for your thoughts, which were very well put in my opinion and one of the very few on here who actually answered my question rather than try to deflect away from an uncomfortable subject for Labour supporters. I'll look out for your posts again. Very good.
Bigmo.
Thank you for that long list. Very depressing reading though I must say.
Thank you for that long list. Very depressing reading though I must say.
annie.
01 Jun 17 19:55
Facts, you are a lovely guy but you do not live and I venture have never lived in communities where benefits are a way of life.
Dr Crippen is right. I know personally of several people who are not starving but use the food banks because they can spend more of their benefits on drugs and alcohol.
I think this is a valid point and we should all be agreed that a benefit culture is not healthy for anyone...people on it or people paying for it.
I would like to see the Labour Party do something about the state subsidy of low wages for businesses.
It is not fair that some people can work 16 hours a week or whatever it is and get their housing and associated costs paid for while others have to work all the hours to pay their full rent or mortgage and cannot afford flat tv's or sky!
It was Labour that brought in tax credits to subsidise low wages, and it was Labour who opposed Osborne when he tried to get rid of them.
I don't think you'll get much joy from Labour with that one Whispering.
I don't think you'll get much joy from Labour with that one Whispering.
I remember when Osborne gave that speech about the person who upon reversing out their drives and see the neighbour's curtains still shut should be asking the question about why.
Amazing.
Look into the eyes, not around the eyes, look into the eyes, there's no greed at the top it's all about your lazy neighbours wrecking the economy with their 75 quid a week giro.
There certainly is a subsidy, a taxpayer subsidy of workers pay where businesses are artificially kept afloat when they might otherwise die, because the only thing that seems to matter in this age of limited freedom is the business doing business so that the few can extract large profits while scrutinising the level of pay of those worthless who do the feckin work.
The bottom line is that desire runs people's view of things, they will always consider themselves worse off than others on the misguided principle that breaking down somebody else will mean there's more for you.
Governments in ever increasing competition with other nations productivity as though the human is nothing more than a slave to do others bidding.
Bill Hicks said the human is just a virus with shoes.....I think he was being generous.
Greed seems to have no limit, people worship money to such an extent all they see is what they want to see.
Amazing.
Look into the eyes, not around the eyes, look into the eyes, there's no greed at the top it's all about your lazy neighbours wrecking the economy with their 75 quid a week giro.
There certainly is a subsidy, a taxpayer subsidy of workers pay where businesses are artificially kept afloat when they might otherwise die, because the only thing that seems to matter in this age of limited freedom is the business doing business so that the few can extract large profits while scrutinising the level of pay of those worthless who do the feckin work.
The bottom line is that desire runs people's view of things, they will always consider themselves worse off than others on the misguided principle that breaking down somebody else will mean there's more for you.
Governments in ever increasing competition with other nations productivity as though the human is nothing more than a slave to do others bidding.
Bill Hicks said the human is just a virus with shoes.....I think he was being generous.
Greed seems to have no limit, people worship money to such an extent all they see is what they want to see.
There is certainly excessive greed at the top and a lot more of that money needs to be recycled through the tax system in one way or another.
That should not detract from the inequality highlighted by Osborne and Whispering Death. We need work to be properly rewarded and seen to be fairly done by all.
That should not detract from the inequality highlighted by Osborne and Whispering Death. We need work to be properly rewarded and seen to be fairly done by all.
Every time it is like tennis, as they knock us to and fro across the net. The current lot do not have solutions for the good of the country.
Only a complete hosing down of westminster will work and then start again. Clear the whole corrupt sorry lot out of there. Civil service included.
Only a complete hosing down of westminster will work and then start again. Clear the whole corrupt sorry lot out of there. Civil service included.
What I believe there needs to be Foinavon is an end to the disparity on how worth is calculated.
Its top heavy for a reason; to give everyone (but typically a far fewer collection of people) every incentive to aspire to be the one who takes out far more than they put in.
If you can determine value of a box lifter you can determine value of a financial derivative inventor, its all just algorithms.
Using the standard argument that the market decides is folly because the profits that are splurged on the few came from crushing the workforce or doing some degenerative trading routeen beyond prying eyes.
Its top heavy for a reason; to give everyone (but typically a far fewer collection of people) every incentive to aspire to be the one who takes out far more than they put in.
If you can determine value of a box lifter you can determine value of a financial derivative inventor, its all just algorithms.
Using the standard argument that the market decides is folly because the profits that are splurged on the few came from crushing the workforce or doing some degenerative trading routeen beyond prying eyes.
May 31, 2017 -- 9:18PM, King Louis wrote:
What about McDonnell advocating murdering people with bombs? How do you square that away? And I don't accept that sympathetic view of Corbyn's links to the IRA. Going to one or two of their rallies and meeting might be forgivable on political grounds, but he attended dozens and dozens. The man was an IRA sympathiser, it's as simple as that. I can't vote for his party, for someone of my age who lived through the bombings in my city (Manchester) it would be unthinkable.
key bit is 'someone my age' youngsters don't know how it was and clowns like these 3 were all for it
those 3 could flatten this country for good, and corbyn is probably the best of them 
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