Knossall rabbit battery farm Staffordshire (Upsetting images)

Indeed, that's what they're doing

https://www.change.org/p/stafford-borough-council-please-don-t-allow-a-rabbit-battery-farm-to-open-in-gnosall

Signed.

Good work, Kenny.

I think Jeremy Lefroy is the local MP,time to contact that gentleman and ask him to do his job,represent his constituents.

this is clearly ray cyst and, anyway, I love a good rabbit stew

So you agree with the condition sin which they will be kept?

Cheers Makybe, I knew you wouldn't let me down.

Kenny - what are the planning issues here?   They won't get consent for anything rabbit-wise that is not legal, will they?

Just saw this Kenny, will sign.
Barbaric practice.

Cheers aka'. No, blackbarn, it IS legal as you well know.

For the avoidance of doubt, Kenny means Gnosall (in Staffs). Knossall is an irrelevant glacier in northern Norway - well it's not actually, but it sounds better than a name for Kenny's Rabbit farm.

What I dont understand is why people feel the need to farm rabbits when there are thousands available to be shot, trapped, run over and generally disposed of. Wild Rabbit is probably the finest freely available source of healthy, tasty, low fat, vaguely organic, source of protein easily available to the common man.

Kenny - you should start another campaign.

So Kenny, what exactly are they proposing to do, and what of this is currently legal or illegal. Do you eat rabbit?

Well, Blackbarn. The Rumanian company who plan to run this barbaric practice, had an application refused last year, much to the relief of many locals, and compassionate people who are not locals, and many overseas people. They are planning to keep the rabbits in tiny cages and kill them for meat, and fur I would imagine. I don't think (but not an expert) that any of it is illegal.

This is their second application, and a decision is to me made in a weeks time.

Kenny - you should start another campaign.

Too old mate, and I have lots of other stuff to do.

I just do what I can, but a waste of time on chit chat! 2 signatures ffs. I'll try horse racing tomorrow,

and no, I don't eat rabbit, or any meat, well fish now and again, but that's different imo.

Kenny - my suggestion for another campaign was to promote the availability and consumption of Rabbit meat. Sorry you misunderstood my post.

So, if I understand you correctly, what they are proposing is legal but you disapprove of their methods of animal care. Is this it?

I eat fish Kenny and have no qualms about that.
When younger we had rabbit occasionally for a meal.

Kenny - Sorry can't resist it.  How is fish different to rabbit/meat, apart from the obvious.

Got it in one, blackbarn.

Wouldn't take an Einstein to work that out blackbarn.

So go on. How is wild fish different from wild rabbit.

Well, I knew you'd ask that question, blackbarn. You're like a dog with a bone. lol

The way I look at things is that some animals that we eat, have horrendous lives, pigs, intelligent animals especially. A lot have good lives until they are killed, but I play safe and don't eat meat, in case I choose wrongly.

Fish, however, as long as it's not farmed, have a very decent life until the last moments. Plus, oily fish, is good for you and hopefully will help me continue my good work for longer.

aka, blackbarn always comes after me, but he's not a bad lad/pensioner.

Maybe so but he's always trying to get people to justify themselves as if he's some kind of superior being.

Kenny - so answer my question - how is wild fish different from wild rabbit?

I dont eat pork "in case I choose wrongly" I am happy to take fish on trust though

Do you eat muscles or whelks Kenny?
I see fish as one step up from them.

Aka - I think it reasonable to get people to explain themselves when their posts make little sense. I respect your position, and that of Kenny, in respect of your dietary choices. What frustrates me is when your posts lack rationale or balance.

That's actually very true, aka'.

blackbarn, how is wild fish different from wild rabbit

I've already explained that I don't eat meat for fear of errors. I'm certainly not going to go shopping for wild rabbit, or hunt one down.

Do you eat muscles or whelks Kenny?
I see fish as one step up from them.

No mate, boneless sardines only. Plus the cats love them.

What frustrates me is when your posts lack rationale or balance.


My position is, I detest animal cruelty. It makes me feel sick! That's why I'll have no part of it.

If that lacks balance and rationale, so be it.

Was just having a look at the situation with the EU and the min standards for rabbit farms and would like to ask Kenny exactly what he is proposing here ,just seems like he is opposed to intensive farming .Unfortunately its here to stay ,I d not agree with many intensive farming methods for many dif reasons .

For example a recently released report on Salmon farming shows that 45 sea lochs in Scotland have been poisoned by this very damaging practice ,ecosystems damaged for profit,but because its a big money spinner its all swept under the carpet.A
Aquaculture gets a very favorable press (expesially from the state broadcaster) ,it can do no wrong in the Scottish Governments eyes even though it is laying waste to the natural habitat of a multitude of species and killing other fish ,the food that feeds them is caught from oceans all over the planet and turned into fish flesh at the unsustainable ratio of 5:1.
These farms are being ravaged by diseaes and parasites that are impacting on everything around them ,its a disgrace.


Anyway ,I fail to see the point Kenny is making ,340M rabbits are farm reared in the EU each year ,the meat produced takes the pressure off other farm livestock and gives the consumer choice .

Kenny should be stating what the min standards should be imo rather than simply saying ,not in my back yard (nimby)
Furthermore he adds a pic of a starved dog ,wtf has that got to do with caged rabbits ?
We can't be chasing all meat production out of the UK to somewhere there are ZERO standards ,if the rabbits are reared here they will be reared to the best standards in the world imo ,and at least we will know what drugs were involved and what the things were fed
We need to be  self sufficient in all aspects and look to export good quality products reared to high standards .

For many of these  starved dog pictures  there is a unseen story of human tradgedy,mental illness ,drug/alchohol abuse ,family disfunction and failure, a breakdown in the social fabric ,many are  just a symptom of a far greater malaise .
but all we see from the RSPCA is a lust for retribution by way of a convictionn with the human story swept aside .
Of course there are some brutal people around and they do need convicted where its willful negelect but often thats not the case.
Noone sets out to starve a dog imo but its got feck all to do with Rabbit Farming .

Pathetic attempt at attention seeking from Kenny imo ,seems like he lives in some sort of fantasy land ,a manchild imo

Kenny. It lacks rationale and balance because.....

You don't eat meat for "fear of errors", but you eat fish without any such fear and take all you are told on trust - "Fish, however, as long as it's not farmed, have a very decent life until the last moments".

I see fish in the same way that I see muscles and whelks Kenny ie living creatures but way down the scale from cows, sheep or any other farmed animal.

Pathetic attempt at attention seeking from Kenny

Might have known you'd come along! Look at the photo. Does that seem to you how an animal should live?

As regards the dog, I have another pertition for Battersea Dog's home and forgot to put the link up. Will start a seperate thread.

All we need is that ct charwell now, and we'll have the full set.

Akabula - Not like a vegetarian to rank order living things, but then you started it.  So what do we think? 

Where shall we put worms and slugs?  above or below Whelks?   We can slot in Mussels when you've mastered the spelling.

Where shall we put Cod and Haddock, above or below Rabbit?  'tis a challenge to be sure.

And when we have decided where to put Rabbit, where should we put Squirrel - nastier and less meat but people like them.

Gosh, isn't the world complex

So you're a vegatarian, blackbarn, or am I getting confused?

you're getting confused. I can help if you dont understand.

Not like a vegetarian to rank order living things, but then you started it.  So what do we think? 

So who's the vegetarian, you referred to?

[i]Akabula - Not like a vegetarian to rank order living things[/I

Where do you get vegan from?

Sorry vegetarian not vegan

I think he's lost the plot, aka'. No vegetarians on this thread, as far as I'm aware.

anyway, the link again, to save many rabbits from a life of horror!

https://www.change.org/p/stafford-borough-council-please-don-t-allow-a-rabbit-battery-farm-to-open-in-gnosall

Joint the rabbits (or ask the butcher to do it. If you bought your rabbits from the supermarket, they will probably be pre-jointed, but they’ll also be farmed – tender but not so tasty).
Cut the shoulders and legs off, and cut them in halves at the elbows and knees. Turn each rabbit so its backbone is on the board. Put a knife across the body, below the ribcage, and whack the back of the knife with a rolling pin. If you’ve done it hard enough, you will have cut the rabbit in two.
Do the same thing at the other end to chop the pelvis off. Throw away the rib cages and pelvises. You will be left with a rectangular bit of the rabbit’s back, about 10cm long. Chop that in half, across the spine, giving you 10 pieces from each rabbit.
In a large mixing bowl, combine the mustard powder and flour with a few pinches of sea salt and black pepper. Toss all the rabbit pieces in the seasoning mix until well coated.
Peel and halve the onions. Trim and chop the celery, then peel the carrots.
Melt the butter in a large, shallow sauté pan over a medium heat. Add the rabbit and brown evenly on all sides, adding butter as required.
Add the onions, celery, carrots and thyme, and cook gently until soft and fragrant.
Pour over the ale, topping up with enough water to cover. Simmer gently for about 45 minutes, or until the meat is tender, adding water if the liquid gets low.Once cooked, simmer the liquid to thicken, and stir in the mustard before serving with crusty bread and a watercress salad.

You like fish, do you, Kenny?

Watch this:
.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYuD8GfqFUI

The fun bit is from 3.40 onwards.

No I only eat oily fish, like sardines,Gallivanter.

Evening all.

Kenny the non vegetarian says - "Oh no, the eggs let me down. Don't eat meat, won't use leather and drink almond milk, so close, but no cigar + "I'm probably a vegan myself without realising it".

Sign this petition.....
74,701 supporters thus far.

Good work Kenny

Signed

last time i ate rabbit was thirty years ago? you've stoked the fires  again.

Kenny the non vegetarian says - "Oh no, the eggs let me down. Don't eat meat, won't use leather and drink almond milk, so close, but no cigar + "I'm probably a vegan myself without realising it".

Never said I was a vegan. impossible these days if you use a PC or drive a car. I do my best. Pescatarean with vegan tendencies.

Thank you kindly, tictacman.

if everyone was a veggie there would be serious problems with the food chain ,a few bad weather years and it would be game over

On the rabbit topic ,what if we had a serious bird disease epidemic on the planet and chickens were removed from the equation ?

Rabbit is and always was primarily a food source ,perhaps the way forward is smaller units concentrating on quality rather then quantity but it should be kept and option ,the waste rabbits produce is far less toxic and much more manageable than that of birds.

of course there is a wild population ,same as deer they are very under exploited imo .

Rabbit is a very low cholesterol meat ,tastes  like cross between chicken and turkey

breadnbutter - I agree.  Rabbit is only one of the three things we should eat more of - Add Grey Squirrel to that and then add all the excess/useless Thoroughbred Bloodstock that currently goes into dog food.  This country could be nearly self sufficient in meat.

Here is an "interesting" lamb statistic...

....in 2013, the UK is the second largest importer of sheep meat in the world, while holding its position as the third largest exporter globally.  In 2012 we exported about 10% more lamb than we imported.

I didn't know that. Absolutely bonkers.

Makybe - there is actually a reason that explains some of the stat - its called New Zealand!!  British Lamb is seasonal, Spring Lamb thru to Hogget (1yr) and the meat varies over that period. I think our Lamb imports are about 80% NZ so they are seasonally different but also the vast majority comes here frozen, so can be spring/young lamb all year round.   I only ever buy British Lamb as if you time it right it is often cheaper than New Zealand.

breadnbutter, I'm not arguing witgh your reasoning, and I know that these crates are legal, goodness knows how it was approved. But is it right for animals to be kept like this. No, it fukin isn't!.


.

Could be worse Kenny, they could be kept in cold, damp holes in the ground.

At least one quarter of meat on sale in the UK comes from farms that do not have to meet national standards for animal welfare ,in other words imported .I suspect UK produced meat commands a premium and is exported and in return we get fed the rubbish .
That is something i am totally against and we should be eating our own produce ,something that is regulated by us and we know its origin and what it was fed ect .The horsebeef scandal highlighted this perfectly although i cant say the investigations produced a satisfactory answer to where it was coming from ,but did prove the meat chain was not secure and was open to fraud .

Thats how the EU intended it imo ,thats why you cant compare like with like and better to eat UK produce and reject imports as much as possible.

Lamb is tricky and i dont mind NZ lamb but its hard to tell after its frozen just what it is and how old it is .
You cant beat a bit of fresh UK reared lamb ,we go to a  local farm that sells its own produce ,a tad dearer but worth every penny .
The supermarkets killed the local butchers bakers  and fishmongers ect ,but no reason they cant come back .

A good buy British campaign would help imo.

And yes Blackbarn the invasive  Sciurus carolinensis  should be  on the menu ,no shortage of them,a quality and ethical meal .

Thanks for that, Blackbarn.

Signed.

breadnbutter - couldnt agree more!  Although not sure the supers have killed the proper butchers.  My butcher (Sussex butcher of the year!!) is also a grazier which helps. His stuff is like for like no dearer than our local Supermarket (Tesco) for Mince and Sausages, and diced beef and lamb is virtually identical in price and the source of everything is displayed in the shop. Pork is a bit dearer but the quality difference is quantum. I could go on.   A buy british campaign is exactly what we need!!  Didnt we have one when we were young?

yea Kenny a hear you but you want it all ways ,no hunting ,no intensive farming ..unless its for pet food and  its fine for your cat to hunt but not my dog .

That apart i think we are making some sort of  progress here









PS . have you wormed your invasive feline fleabags recently ?

blackbarn is fur farming illegal in the UK?

Or breadnbutter can answer. Yes of course I worm them regularly. Use Drontal and the vet charges a fortune.The 6 cost me £300 a month. Good job I'm a pro gambler.

Kenny - yes as far as I know.  I think you can use skins from wild beasts though, which is excellent (or not) news for all wild mink released into the wild by all the loons that thought it was a good idea at the time. Mink slaughter is one of the primary reasons for the renaissance in the fortunes of the Water Rat (Vole).

Well it's illegal if it's the main money earner is my limited understanding, but the applicant said it's going to form a large part of the business. Presumably only 49%. Bastards.

you can get the same ingredient thats in drontal+  off the net in generic form at a fraction of the price

drontal is too expensive

Kenny - we had a go at Mink meat as well as the fur, but it didnt work. There is meat there, but not much and it tastes terrible. What I don't understand is why there isn't a national campaign against the Mink. There could be a government bounty of £x per tail; We could revolutionise the fur industry and do wonders for UK Wildlife simultaneously.

you can get the same ingredient thats in drontal+  off the net in generic form at a fraction of the price

Thanks, I'll run that though my mobile vet,to check, she's very understanding and does not expect me to buy everything from her. She makes enough from home visits anyway.

Kenny - Did you read the application/appeal documents? My understanding is that meat is the main objective with fur as a by-product. The issues seem to be the suitability of the site and other issues unrelated directly to the breeding and killing of rabbits. Is your objection solely animal welfare based?

You need a presciption for Drontal, and the local vet (not my mobile vet, but she is based there) charge for it, making it as expensive as online. Prresumably that's the actual Drontal though.

Sounds fascinating blackbarn. Would it result in less animal cruelty? A simple yes or no will do.

Is your objection solely animal welfare based?

Of course it is. Why be cruel?

Kenny - "Sounds fascinating blackbarn. Would it result in less animal cruelty? A simple yes or no will do".

Not quite sure what you mean Kenny. So YES, all animal death is inherently cruel if conducted prior to the end of an animals natural life span. Is that what you meant or did I misunderstand.

watched Bonanza yesterday? Little jo and his 'halfbreed' friend... I can't remember the character's name... (Arrested for hate crime)...
were eating a rabbit they caught in the prairie - little jo had it on a spit. Golden brown, tender and juicy. He took the stick that the rabbit was on and ripped the meat in half. Handing the other half to his friend.... then turned to the screen and said...
Fkin Romanians comin over here eating our rabbits... let's take them down. yee haw.

yea i know the "its prescription" mularkey,thats why they  get away with charging like a rhino forrit , but you can buy it in generic form off the net without a prescription .

Not quite sure what you mean Kenny. So YES, all animal death is inherently cruel if conducted prior to the end of an animals natural life span. Is that what you meant or did I misunderstand.


LOL. you're such an obtuse person. You know exactly what I mean. Overall, would it be beneficial for animal welfare?

cheers bb

why is it  the cute animals get a pass?

Dennis Leary... does a bit on this.

if we started to eat Tigers there would be millions of them.

currently 3 billion chickens on the planet. they can't even fly?

buy a tiger burger today... we can release half of them back to the wild, some island.

ten million tigers in Australia?

Kenny - I think I understand well.

I posted....Kenny - Did you read the application/appeal documents? My understanding is that meat is the main objective with fur as a by-product. The issues seem to be the suitability of the site and other issues unrelated directly to the breeding and killing of rabbits. Is your objection solely animal welfare based?

You replied... in response to the last point - "Of course it is. Why be cruel?"

I replied....Not quite sure what you mean Kenny. So YES, all animal death is inherently cruel if conducted prior to the end of an animals natural life span. Is that what you meant or did I misunderstand.

You replied....LOL. you're such an obtuse person. You know exactly what I mean. Overall, would it be beneficial for animal welfare?.


And I'm the one accused of being obtuse.

10 million+ felines in the Uk ,poor native songbird population has withered

Aus has the right idea and will cull 2M invasive feral felines by 2020

how many ferals in the uk ?

I'm getting muddled here. Is the keeping of rabbits in such conditions (see picture above) cruel or NOT cruel. If it is cruel just sign the petition. If you DON'T think it's cruel just say so. Then I can get on with my p/l account for the day.

Simple change of law required BnB, Cats become Grey Squirrels in law.  May meet a bit of resistance as I am not sure cat is that good to eat.  The fur is good mind.

that;s to blackbarn.

Kenny - Even with a relatively sound campaign, you are struggling here - you cant even spell Gnosall.

Your pictures are not evidence of this planning application are they?   I asked if you had read the planning application documents or the appeal documents.  Have you yet? 

What you are asking people to do is sign a petition you have seen (?) on the internet, on the basis of some unrelated (?) pictures of rabbits in cages which you consider to be cruel.

so I guess that's a no. Will be back tomorrow with response. Stuff to do. 6 cats to feed, book-keeping to do, curry to cook etc.

Night night Kenny - BTW, Rabbit makes brilliant curry; I can send you several recipes

Marks And Spencer mixed vegetable Masala, thank you very much.

remember to wipe the cat faeces off your bunkers before you start

What you are asking people to do is sign a petition you have seen (?) on the internet, on the basis of some unrelated (?) pictures of rabbits in cages which you consider to be cruel.

They will be farmed rabbits, the smaller the space they are allowed, the more they can keep and the greater the profit.

Do you think they'll have plenty of space to exppress their natural behaviour. Yes or no. And if you answer no, do you think that is right!

Won;t give a simple yes or no answer (nap)

I asked if you had read the planning application documents or the appeal documents.  Have you yet?

No, I have too uch on my plate. I leave that to the experts. If the brilliant "Compassion In World Farming" object, that's good enough for me. Do you think they are objecting for the sake of it? ffs!

You should read the stuff Kenny, it is quite interesting. Not sure I would put total faith in any pressure group, however laudable, but that is your call.

Re Rabbit natural behaviour, NO I do not think that caged intensively reared Rabbits are able to express their natural behaviour, or "hop skip and jump" as CIWF so eloquently and Beatrix Potterly put it.  But, as we know with Chicken, that is the price we pay for cheap meat.
I personally do not buy intensively farmed meat, but if the process is legal, I am ok with it and frankly don't really care very much. In fact it would be hypocritical of me to do anything else, since I dispose of several "bunnies" virtually every month of the year.

ok cheers, blackbarn, till the next time.

Anything that improves the supply of british rabbits is a good thing.  Not the chinese stuff they used to bring in.
Love a good rabbit stew.

TBH there is a problem with rabbits in the UK ,prob went unnoticed by many but wild rabbit populations are in massive decline ,reportedly due to a disease called RHD .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit_haemorrhagic_disease

The poor coney  has suffering another disease ,of course its not really a native species ,introduced by the romans and kept in enclosures called warrens and used for food and fur they quickly escaped and made themselves at home .
The brutal myxomatosis was unleashed on them in the 50,s and thats the reason they went off the menu ,but they have always been a pop  meat on the continent with strains of domestic rabbits produced that grow much bigger than the wild version .

Kenny we need a diverse food chain ,compassion and emotion in the food supply is going force us down the road of lab produced meat .
Chasing production out of the UK was always a bad idea ,plenty other countries to be putting pressure on for dubious animal husbandry practices the UK has went far enough down that road imo .

The animal rights brigade have stopped  people from hunting there own food ,you cant have your cake and eat it .

Or your rabbit and eat it.

my post immediately before breadnbutter's last post has been deleted.

Good news: since I wrote to you in January, MEPs on the European Parliament's Agriculture Committee have backed a report calling for the phasing out of caged rabbit farming. This is a major step towards protecting Europe’s farmed rabbits.

But that was only the first step. Next week, the report faces the vote of all 751 MEPs. Will you contact your MEPs today and ask them to support the report? We must get as many MEPs as possible to back this report and kick start the process of securing legislation for these animals.

Take action


Last week, thanks to the generosity of our supporters, we placed billboards in 20 strategic locations around the European Parliament and Commission buildings, to ensure that policy makers can be in no doubt about how serious this issue is. They must act to help the 99% of Europe’s farmed rabbits who are confined to cages, unable to jump or even to stand fully upright. Please reinforce this message and take action today to help protect these animals.

Act now


Breaking news: a number of MEPs have backed a new amendment to the report that calls for concrete legislation that would ban the use of cages. MEPs will have the opportunity to vote on this next week, in a plenary session of the Parliament, and we must call on them to both get behind this report and back the amendment.

Email your MEPs


Thank you,

James West
James West
Senior Campaign Manager



PS This report is the best opportunity for farm animal welfare legislation in a decade. Please take just a moment to email your MEPs and help End the Cage Age.

Kenny is any part of your latest post yours, or is it all by James West at Compassion in World Farming. You should be clear when cutting and pasting.  Actually he happens to live just down the road from me

Here is an extract on him from Linkedin, presumably written by himself....

"I worked for many years in UK politics before moving into the third sector as Campaign Manager for Compassion in World Farming. In this role I have been responsible for organising exciting and engaging campaigns that can be delivered online and offline across a network of European offices. I have experience of lobbying policy makers and stakeholders in the UK and Europe and I have been media trained. I am meticulous in my planning and able to work individually or as part of a wider team. I hope to use these skills to progress my career and take on new challenges".

Animal Welfare doesn't seem to be his primary motivation does it. I wonder if he eats Rabbit?

Of course it's not my post. Do you really need italics for that?

I trust the man. Would you like me to write to him outlining your "concerns"? I know he'll respond. Of course if that extract is say 5 years old, his views may have changed.I ate sausages 5 years ago.