The European Union is dead

That is what you want to prove you were right voting Brexit,in your heart you know you are wrong
the E.U is a noble cause it started to prevent Wars in Europe you want to turn the clock back..

i've got the prosecco out

You voted Brexit because you think you're cleverer and better than any other E.U member
the chickens will come home to roost but they will be thinner and will not lay the eggs
the same size as you're used to and when you kill them for your Sunday Roast you will
vomit at the taste.

I voted Brexit because I do not wish for Great Britain to be a province of a Greater European power. And that my friend is that.

I freely admit that I lied to people, I did everything in my power to make other people vote Leave, I appealed to their basest instincts.

There are no rules when the sovereignty of one's Nation is at stake.

We signed up for a common market and not a United States of Europe which the EU is slowly heading for.
All the doom and gloom from Breedingmad and his like won't change my mind that leaving was the best decision the people of the UK have ever taken.
A whole big trading world awaits us and the EU will still want to do business with us as well.

Dec 5, 2016 -- 12:24AM, Breedingmad wrote:

You voted Brexit because you think you're cleverer and better than any other E.U memberthe chickens will come home to roost but they will be thinner and will not lay the eggsthe same size as you're used to and when you kill them for your Sunday Roast you willvomit at the taste.

Still telling me why I voted for Brexit.

At first it was because I was thicker than everyone else. Now it's because I'm cleverer.

I voted for Brexit for pretty much the same reason as Jed ( a fellow Spurs fan and there fore automatically the crème-de-la-crème of an 'already-superior' breed). My kids and grandkids future in a country more capable of determining it's own way forward rather than under the crushing yoke of a (predominantly white boys) autocracy. 

Of course, that is the one thing Remainders never address.

In their rush to label 17.4 million people as neo-Nazis, highlight the rise in pretend hate crimes and the short-term economic gloom, (which, even if true, is a small price to pay for living on our feet rather than dying on our knees) they never EVER talk about the move from trading union to political suprastate. Never address the corruption at the very top of their project. Never address why they are even discussing closer integration (without anyone's say so), a European Army, common tax laws and even niff-naff like a flag and a 'National' anthem.

If the vote had gone the other way, but with exactly the same percentages, would we be sitting here discussing a 'hard Remain' or a 'Soft Remain'? Would there be court cases restricting our governemnts power to negotiate the terms on which we remain?

Or would it just have been 'You lost the Brexit vote - now it's business as usual'

The absolute ignorance in that 8.37 post is truly remarkable. Unfortunately ignorant people have decided that their opinion is just as valid as experts, egged on by the populists. Calling a referendum was perhaps the most reckless act by any Prime Minister in modern history. In any other walk of life experts are not told how to do their job by people with little or no expertise. We have a Parliamentary democracy and it really should have stayed that way for every decision particularly one as big as this. It's going to take years to get over this appalling referendum because it's caused such terrible division between people. With the US in a similarly divided position due to the rhetoric and madness of Trump the world really is in a mess.

i'm not sure the best way to bridge that divide is to angrily denounce other people's views as being remarkably ignorant.

yes complaining about brexiteers being lumped together by remainers

then lumping together the remainers





hey ho

If the vote had gone the other way, but with exactly the same percentages, would we be sitting here discussing a 'hard Remain' or a 'Soft Remain'? Would there be court cases restricting our governemnts power to negotiate the terms on which we remain?

Or would it just have been 'You lost the Brexit vote - now it's business as usual'





I try and avoid name calling, asparagus, in what way is the above ignorant, and do you have an  answer to roger's questions?

Anyone that uses the term populists doesnt truly understand the subject, plus his post is incredibly rude.

asparagus is not very smart. you may wonder how 'experts' do on the best approach and on forecasting outcomes.
well the answer is it depends on the profession.

there is measurable competence, a plumber or a bricklayer or a surgeon has this.
but then there are other professions such as economists, and politicians and the experts in these fields it is much more difficult to measure.
quite often in professions like these the ones who do well are those who do not see the future, like turkeys they are getting fatter and fatter every day and everything seems good.
if course these experts are wrong.

if the vote had gone the other way there would be a campaign for another vote

we saw this when polls closed and farage thought it was lost to him


that of course is his right

roger's question's are simple and concise, I look forward to answers from any remainers, but I won't hold my breath.

If the vote had gone the other way, but with exactly the same percentages, would we be sitting here discussing a 'hard Remain' or a 'Soft Remain'? Would there be court cases restricting our governemnts power to negotiate the terms on which we remain?

this question ?

not reaally what i would call concise , but simply there would have been no need

indeed they seem to be questions he already knows answers to, and is making
a point, but is somewhat misguided imo

it's a bit much to say you can continue to campaign on leaving the EU as long as we don't actually leave the EU.

it is not possible to know why individual people voted leave or remain. and it is not necessary or practical to know.
it is better to say well we have voted to leave.
We then revert to the status of countries that are not members of the EU, such as Australia or China.
And then proceed from there and in the following years build trade deals were best etc.

farage would have kept asking for referendum until he got what he wanted if remain had  ' won ' in july.
cameron will be damned eternally in history as the man who put his party before the country.

it is not possible to know why individual people voted leave or remain



HURRAY !


hence the need to debate it now !!!!

"but simply there would have been no need". Thanks donny, 48% of a yes/no vote can be simply ignored, we agree on something.

thats not what i said

hey ho , you must be desperate

no there is no point in debating it, simply because the individual things are not open to the people on a referendum.
if there is a proposal to put to the British people eg should we stay in the EU and continue to allow free movement of people.
Well hie do you think that would go? well the politicians will not allow the vote under those terms.
Then say the ballet asked us to vote on should we stay part of the single market and allow free movement of people?
well I don't know how that would go either. But the politicians will not allow us to vote on that either.
then again if they asked do you want to stay in the EU and stop free movement of people.
Well they won't allow us to vote in that either.

That is why I fell there shouldn't be a bebate by politicians.

Some of your reply must have gone missing, donny, they are the only words I can see.

so all brexiteers will be happy with a soft brexit if thats the way may goes and should just
accept it ?


i dont think thats right nor would it happen

lets have the debate (not just on here)

and find the best way forward for the country

and if we can have our cake and eat it then great

Now if there was to be another referendum, how would it be phrased? people who voted to leave or remain assumed that if leave won then Britain would have the status of any other country in the world, like Australia and China etc and were on balance happy with that.

ah yes saddo, you read what you want and carry on

hey ho

In amongst all the denouncements of me as 'ignorant' (I'll add that to 'stupid', 'trying to be clever' and 'fascist') before going onto utter the phrase ' Unfortunately ignorant people have decided that their opinion is just as valid as experts' (that's 'Universal Sufferage' you've just dissed in one sentence - nice one!), I'm still waiting for a single 'Remainder' to talk about the democratic deficit at the EU's top-table?

people didn't vote for a soft Brexit. no one did. They voted to return to the same status as countries like Australia

Regarding misinformation leading up to the referendum vote.

How many Remain campaigners explained  that the Euro is a house of cards?

they voted to leave the single market too ?

in your post above you said we couldnt know why they voted

now you know all of them voted to leave the single market

strange logic

donny

Did the economic *experts* make their forecasts on the iron clad fact that the UK would be leaving the single market (as members)?

Try and keep up donny, I said individuals would have many different shades of reasons for voting. But that is the beauty of not putting on the ballet all the complex individual views, they will not allow that or is it necessary.
Once it was leave that should mean a return to not being part of the EU, in the same manner as many other countries in the world such as China or Australuis . And then of course we can set up trade deals etc.

That is what people voted for and that is what everyone assumed would happen

yeah, you cant have it all ways. some brexiteers clearly want to remain in
single market

hey ho

Did the economic *experts* make their forecasts on the iron clad fact that the UK would be leaving the single market (as members)?

ha ha

the spinmasters would have told us anything from either side

We all have our different wishes, just as we all have our different wishes and hopes when we vote for a government. It is something everyone knows when they vite, it is a balanced decision .

and voting for a government does not mean you have to accept that the
new government has carte blanc to do as they please without checks and
balances

even if the government is the one you voted for

Dec 5, 2016 -- 12:02PM, donny osmond wrote:

Did the economic *experts* make their forecasts on the iron clad fact that the UK would be leaving the single market (as members)?ha ha the spinmasters would have told us anything from either side

Indeed - why I remember the Prime Minister of our country telling us this was 'a once in a lifetime decision' from which there would be 'no going back' and (parqaquoting here, admittedly...) 'not to sleepwalk into this decision'

When the country went 'Fine - there you go then' apparently the above did come with a load of caveats and 'ah buts' after all!

Now certain politicians will make a big deal about the single market, and certain businessmen. But don't trust them the single market means very little for trade either in or out it makes no difference .
But it makes a massive difference to free movement of labour
That is something they are determined to maintain,
Do not even listen when they talk  of the single market . it us not about Britains trade.

surely you knew that to be the case roger before the vote

you've already told us you aint stupid

A government in Britain does not have any checks and balances, apart from the British people. None.

I'm a leaver but I think that the Euro is dead.still think Germany plus a few others will try and keep a slimmed down EU together

I see a republic coming in this country in 20 years..

it is there own fault they shouldn't have tinkered with the original model

it has checks and balances from opposition mps, from the house of lords ,from judges
from the press and from the people

obviously government can override those, but needs to do so correctly

The government ca do what it wishes, can implement any policy it wishes and no power on earth can stop the British government implementing those policies.
Unless the British people decide otherwise.

Dec 5, 2016 -- 12:08PM, donny osmond wrote:

surely you knew that to be the case roger before the voteyou've already told us you aint stupid

Not really.

I genuinely expected the democratic will of the majority to be implemented and quickly too. It was, after all, spelled out very clearly by the Remain side what we were all voting for (see above)

I did not expect this obfuscation, insult, tricksy legal challenges and (I sh1t ye not) grown, adult friends of mind talking about the need for them to undergo a 'grieving process for the death of an ideal' - and that the rest of the world should give this nonsense houseroom.

with the support of its mps if it has a majority
it can pass most laws, but not any !

he legal challenge is not to brexit , it is to government grab of powers

the

any law, or any policy can be passed by the British Parliament.

sorry, not parliament. government

Dec 5, 2016 -- 8:37AM, rogerthebutler wrote:

Dec  5, 2016 -- 12:24AM, Breedingmad wrote:You voted Brexit because you think you're cleverer and better than any other E.U memberthe chickens will come home to roost but they will be thinner and will not lay the eggsthe same size as you're used to and when you kill them for your Sunday Roast you willvomit at the taste.Still telling me why I voted for Brexit.At first it was because I was thicker than everyone else. Now it's because I'm cleverer.I voted for Brexit for pretty much the same reason as Jed ( a fellow Spurs fan and there fore automatically the crème-de-la-crème of an 'already-superior' breed). My kids and grandkids future in a country more capable of determining it's own way forward rather than under the crushing yoke of a (predominantly white boys) autocracy.  Of course, that is the one thing Remainders never address.In their rush to label 17.4 million people as neo-Nazis, highlight the rise in pretend hate crimes and the short-term economic gloom, (which, even if true, is a small price to pay for living on our feet rather than dying on our knees) they never EVER talk about the move from trading union to political suprastate. Never address the corruption at the very top of their project. Never address why they are even discussing closer integration (without anyone's say so), a European Army, common tax laws and even niff-naff like a flag and a 'National' anthem.If the vote had gone the other way, but with exactly the same percentages, would we be sitting here discussing a 'hard Remain' or a 'Soft Remain'? Would there be court cases restricting our governemnts power to negotiate the terms on which we remain? Or would it just have been 'You lost the Brexit vote - now it's business as usual'

Since on Remainder has bothered to address this, I think the Brexit side would have woken up the day after their referendum defeat and gone 'Bo11ocks! Oh well, we gave it a lash and it was a close run thing. Can't wait for the next general election and see if we get a genuine choice between Leave and Stay again, but that's democracy for you. The UK always get it wrong - Blur V Oasis, Proportional Representation and now this!'

I remember the Prime Minister of our country telling us this was 'a once in a lifetime decision'

Clegg said that too, during the televised debate.

and politicians are to be taken at their word ?

The remainers are forever quoting brexit promises about financial savings figures donny. Are they a bit thick also for taking them at their word?

Well, it's certainly a good starting point in holding them and their supporters to account.

Dec 5, 2016 -- 12:45PM, rogerthebutler wrote:

Well, it's certainly a good starting point in holding them and their supporters to account.

I mean, if you can't rust politicians and the democratic process, then you might end up with real, proper backlash with real proper hate crimes from real proper people who have been marginalised and insulted and whose faith in the democratic process has been removed by the very politicians they voted to serve them.

As no Remainders seem to care about the lack of democracy at the heart of the EU, this should come as no surprise really.

As no Remainders seem to care about the lack of democracy at the heart of the EU, this should come as no surprise really


You say you are not thick and post that?

It's not dead !.......it's...restin'....

Dec 5, 2016 -- 12:54PM, ----you-have-to-laugh--- wrote:

As no Remainders seem to care about the lack of democracy at the heart of the EU, this should come as no surprise reallyYou say you are not thick and post that?

Merely responding to the lack of any debate on this.

I'm not saying whether I think I'm thick or not either - it's just what I've been called, among other things, by Remainders.

Funny how they never want to discuss, say, Viviane Reding's statement "We need to build a United States of Europe with the Commission as government and two chambers – the European Parliament and a "Senate" of Member States.

I'm sure all committed Remainders, will know who Viviane Reding is - I'd bring up the article the above quote is from but I'm thick as mince me.

We are leaving the EU. Let them get on with it.

What was Jed.Davidson getting excited about 48 hours ago?
Hofer was long odds-on to win in Austria but he managed to lose. Italy, a founder member of the EU, voted No to reform. The markets reacted favourably to Italy's vote to retain the status quo.
Here's populist (f**kwit) leader Bepe Grillo speaking for your "movement". - " Today saying No is the most glorious and beautiful form of politics. Whoever doesn't understand that can go screw themselves."
The everest of Brexit politics.

Another domino about to fall. Hollande didn't have the balls to stand as he knew he would get slaughtered and the left on every wrong side of every argument. After Italy , the Dutch and so on. You can't stop it now. The snowball has started to roll. Farewell the EU.

peace was kept by nato not the eu  - hope this helps

remainers are out to make as much noise as possible to gain hegemony in the debate and eventually the decisions of where we go

I am sick of their meddling

it is not good for the idea of voting and democracy

can I challenge the vote next time the tory liars get in???

I'm sorry but the tactics of the leftists calling anyone who disagrees with their minority opinion...racists, facists or whatever other label they hysterically peddle is now became predictable and boring. It ain't working and it never will.

It's agenda driven bull***t and it's clearly being peddled by a far left vocal minority who have appointed themselves as paragons of morality. Woe betide anyone who doesn't/won't agree with their delusions of superiority. Thankfully their bull***t is backfiring all over the globe and the majority of sane thinking people are sick to the back teeth of it.

The best advise I can give to all remoaners and race baiters who are struggling to come to terms with the will of the British people is....GIRFUY and grow the f**k up. (okay I know that last bit is a wee bit ironic)

To see the light you need to realise that part of becoming a good person means accepting responsibility for yourself. To put it simply...it means throughout your life things you don't agree with, i.e sh*t is gonny happen and YOU, not the government, not the EU, not this sh***y forum, not Facebook or twitter...no one else but YOU...can work through or get to grips with your own sh*t. When you eventually realise that no one can live for you, no one can help you with your self loathing/hatred of your fellow citizens and no one can make you a successful person but yourself, you will come to accept that society is largely made up of decent people looking out for and doing the best they can for their families and themselves.

We are now sadly witnessing the results of entitlement in our society....it seems particularly in our younger generation. To be fair, the older generation have to accept a share of responsibility for this occurrence...because we have brought them up...to be spoiled...aye spoiled...my fear is we have created a generation who will require baby sat throughout their whole lives.

To sum up...f**k racists...f**k bigots and f**k left wing communists...you will never be allowed to win..

Only passing thru but I shall leave a good message ...

FTEU

Forgot Nige ...