British woman 'arrested in Dubai after reporting rape'

she is in the mire, as sex outside of marriage gets you the same treatment

it doesn't matter - in sharia law they have to have four males to give evidence to support the woman!!!

so sex is illegal outside of marriage under sharia law? so any female tourist there with her boyfriend could get arrested?

full seethe mode mobo

get it all out

donny osmond 17 Nov 16 16:48 
why should we be concerned ?

iif sharia courts are brought into british justice it would
be to ensure they abided by our laws

so a good thing ....


but hey ho

let's not be concerned

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ex-tory-candidate-claims-those-9036362

I'll bet donny is a Muslim or someone very close to him is.

sharia law is ok by him so............

get the market up dr crippen

money to be made


another bigot emerges

There you go.

where can i find the market ?

cant see it !

you can't do anything about sharia. it's perfectly acceptable that civil matters can be settled outside of court.

however, sharia courts, as well as the Beth Din, should be made to log all their cases and make these logs freely available, demonstrate that they have explained to both parties how the matter would be handled in a english civil court, and the government should introduce a law making failing to report a crime reported to a religious court, a criminal act, with exceptionally severe penalties.

I would be worried about what goes on in freemasonry circles than in Sharia courts.

another bigot emerges

If opposing the beating and stoning of women makes me a bigot then I can live with that.


What should I call you who seems to approve of it - a barbarian?

And you remain a barbarian.

It isn't sharia courts ultimately that are the main issue.  It is sharia itself which many muslims in this country support without any qualification.

Anyone who can condone such treatment of a woman violated and then reporting the attack is barmy.

sharia and its courts are controlled by men as are hadiths etc etc

just for starters

in some sharia courts the men don't even look at the woman!!!

they are treated as a sub species almost

donny is quite happy with this

Have you ever seen the geordie women on the quayside on friday nights mobo ?

once again its not islam that is the problem but the men
in charge of the country that hide behind it

That from the donny the barbarian.

With people like Barbie it's never Islam, it's always the ones behind it.

very good treetop  I have moored alongside in Newcastle oddly enough!!! 

they don't 'arf talk funny

I have also moored alongside in Birkenhead and they talk even funnier there!!!

but as always - a smile goes a long way - very accommodating and friendly

ive not seen a single person condone it treetop

hey ho

comment about newcastle quayside ....

treetop use a geordieist - off to re-alignment camp for you when my friend mr corbyn is in power

donny will be in charge of immigration which will be easy for him

all he has to do is leave his foot in the door to keep it open for his friends from the middle east

ah a hint of comedy,

much better

Donny  - Just wait till when islam bites you in the @rse for all your liberal islamic backing fantasies. They don't allow deviation.

Ironically, I can agree with donny,my knowledge of Islam is enough to support that comment, I have lived alongside many decent muslims who would be appalled at that treatment but the hardliners from the desert and backward areas are winning the hearts and minds battle for religious application,rather like the Rfeormation in our country in 16th century when the catholic leadership would burn people at the stake for heresy. Protestants then retaliated and,surprise,surpise we had a civil war. My point now is that we should not allow weakness and a need to be sympathetic and inclusive to allow us to get to that stage.All we need is firm but fair government and application of British law (secular) above religious law.

it wont, dont worry

stop reading press 24/7 and you will learn its bollox

i dont see any irony in you seeing my point of view against a trio of bigots

Lighten up donny,they are concerned,rightly to my mind,about the path of appeasement our government are taking and sensitivity to any criticism applies on both sides.All anyone is wanting is to see a firm application of our secular laws and pointing out what has happened in Dubai is necessary to prevent drift into sharia by accident.

the council of lawyers in this country tried to get aspects of sharia law established in english law until it was uncovered

they will chip away continually  until they get hegemony

accept it and convert

lol

i think you need to lighten up

and learn what irony means

For heaven's sake, get off your high horse and relax bonny lad.Ironically, of course !

lol

drink yer milk

and read yer dictionary

I think treetop is wrong to compare the civil war in 16c England to problems that the world faces today. In 16c England the people were English and believed in the same things and in the same culture and the same religion. That is very important, and it is more important than people may realise that the people were English. You see it is no accident that England became the greatest of all countries.

Have to watch the apprentice now.

sometimes it is hard to find this stuff but this was relatively easy

have you ever looked up how many have written for the guardian

it is hundreds and hundreds 


Journalism and Media

    Aaqil Ahmed – Commissioning editor for Religion and Multicultural programming at Channel 4[21]
    Adil Ray – British radio and television presenter, for BBC Asian Network[22]
    Adnan Nawaz – A News and Sports presenter working for the BBC World Service[23]
    Ali Abbasi – Former Scottish TV presenter[24]
    Anila Baig – A columnist at The Sun[25]
    Mazher Mahmood[26]
    Mehdi Hasan – Senior politics editor at the New Statesman and a former news and current affairs editor at Channel 4[27]
    Mishal Husain – Currently an anchor for BBC World[28]
    Riz Lateef – A news reader and the BBC Deputy News Manager[29]
    Saira Khan – Was the runner-up on the first series of The Apprentice, and now a TV presenter on BBC's Temper Your Temper and Desi DNA[30]
    Sarfraz Manzoor – A British writer, journalist, documentary maker, and broadcaster. He writes regularly for The Guardian, presents documentaries on BBC Radio 4.[31]
    Shaf Rasul – A British Pakistani millionaire who is also a business column writer for The Scottish Sun newspaper[32]
    Shereen Nanjiani – A radio journalist with BBC Radio Scotland[33]
    Tazeen Ahmad – A British television and radio presenter and reporter[34]
    Waheed Khan – Documentary television director working in British television[35]
    Ajmal Masroor – Television presenter, politician, Imam,[36] and UK Parliamentary candidate for Bethnal Green and Bow constituency representing Liberal Democrats in 2010 General Election.[37] He is a television presenter on political and Islamic programmes on Islam Channel and Channel S.[38]
    Kanak 'Konnie' Huq – Television presenter, best known for being the longest-serving female Blue Peter presenter.[39][40]
    Lisa Aziz – News presenter, and journalist. Best known as the co-presenter of the Bristol-based ITV West Country nightly weekday news programme The West Country Tonight,[41] one of the first Asian presenters to be seen on television.[42] She won the Ethnic Multicultural Media Academy Best Television News Journalist Award.[43][44]
    Nina Hossain – Journalist, newscaster, and sole presenter of ITV London's regional news programme London Tonight.[45]
    Rizwan Hussain – Barrister, television presenter, philanthropist, international humanitarian worker, former Hindi music singer and producer. TV presenter for Islamic and charity shows on Channel S and Islam Channel.[46]
    Tasmin Lucia-Khan – Journalist, presenter, and producer.[47] Best known for delivering BBC Three's nightly hourly 'World News' bulletins on in 60 Seconds,[48] and presenting E24 on the rolling news channel BBC News.[49] Currently delivers news bulletins and breaking stories on ITV breakfast television programme Daybreak.[50]
    A. N. M. Serajur Rahman – Journalist, broadcaster, and Bangladeshi nationalist.[51]
    Faisal Islam – Economics editor and correspondent for Channel 4 News. He was named Young Journalist of the Year at the Royal Society of Television awards 2006.[52]
    Fareena Alam – Editor of British Muslim Magazine Q News.[53] She was named Media Professional of the Year by Islamic Relief in 2005 and at the Asian Women of Achievement Awards in 2006.[54]
    Nurul Islam – Broadcast journalist, radio producer, and presenter best remembered for his work with the BBC World Service.[55]
    Shamim Chowdhury – Television and print journalist for Al Jazeera English.[56]
    Kristiane Backer – a German television presenter, television journalist and author residing in London.[57]
    Tausif Malik – an Indian American Media personality, publisher, editor, creator of Muslim Spelling Bee Competitions, Muslim Hall of Fame, Shadi Made Easy, American Muslim TV, Global Muslim Observer, residing in Chicago. He has transformed community events into a Social Enterprise [58]
    Zeinab Badawi – BBC presenter of "Hard Talk"
    Shaman Butt – Producer/Correspondent Presstv, India
    Fareed Zakaria – Indian American journalist and author, host of CNN's Fareed Zakaria GPS

so if you get an annoying questioning twot like me coming along and asking  - as a jouno , fellow editor, journo on a editorial group
what do you think happens??

you shut up and put up

you have to keep your job

any questioning of the faith will fk you up big style

too may votes in it for the politicians to do anything about it as well

too many votes in it

I didn't realise there were so many barbarians like donny at the Guardian.

No wonder nobody reads it.

I did a search a - z   you would not believe - hundreds - I gave up at mid alphabet

if nobody reads it then why reserch who works there

ending mid alphabet at letter z for zakaria

evening dr bigot, still seething

Under Islamic law, rape can only be proven if the rapist confesses or if there are four male witnesses.  Women who allege rape without the benefit of the act having been witnessed by four men (who presumably develop a conscience afterwards) are actually confessing to having sex.  If they or the accused happens to be married, then it is considered to be adultery.



Quran (2:282) - Establishes that a woman's testimony is worth only half that of a man's in court (there is no "he said/she said" gridlock in Islam).
Quran (24:4) - "And those who accuse free women then do not bring four witnesses (to adultery), flog them..."  Strictly speaking, this verse addresses adultery (revealed at the very time that Muhammad's favorite wife was being accused of adultery on the basis of only three witnesses coincidentally enough).  However it is a part of the theological underpinning of the Sharia rule on rape, since if there are not four male witnesses, the rape "did not occur".
Quran (24:13) - "Why did they not bring four witnesses of it? But as they have not brought witnesses they are liars before Allah."
Quran (2:223) - "Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will..."  There is no such thing as rape in marriage, as a man is permitted unrestricted sexual access to his wives.

The background for the Quranic requirement of four witnesses to adultery.  Muhammad's favourite wife, Aisha, was accused of cheating [on her polygamous husband].  Three witnesses corroborated the event, but Muhammad apparently did not want to believe it, and so established the arbitrary rule that four witnesses are required.



Rape of Muslim women is against Islamic law - although the rape of non-Muslim women is not, if they are 'captured in battle' or bought as slaves.  Even the rape of a Muslim woman is almost impossible to prove under strict Islamic law (Sharia).  If the man claims that the act was consensual sex, there is very little that the woman can do to refute this.  Islam places the burden of avoiding sexual encounters of any sort on the woman.

Unless 4 witness come forward she is knackered.

The Muslim c0ck is allowed to roam freely  ..


any fan ny wandering is prone to a good Stoning or whip lashing  ..

maleuk01.
Under Islamic law, rape can only be proven if the rapist confesses or if there are four male witnesses.  Women who allege rape without the benefit of the act having been witnessed by four men (who presumably develop a conscience afterwards) are actually confessing to having sex.  If they or the accused happens to be married, then it is considered to be adultery

The basis for that law is in their bible. Incredible that we allow followers of this evil cult into this country.

Aisha was also 7 when Mohammed married her and 9 when they consummated the marriage.

So the fact that 4 witnesses are required is because there where only 3 witnesses to her adultery. As Mohammed didn't  want to believe it, apparently Allah told him 4 witness where needed.

Not many rape cases where there are 4 witnesses.

My friends tell me it is common knowledge among muslim world not to get involved with arab police. People should really do their homework when travelling to other countries. They treat muslims like ****(look at their nationality laws and working conditions for people from specific muslim countries) and you expect them to help you being a non-muslim woman! At least she has seen first hand why the refugees don't head to those countries.

Anyhow, She has got a hard task at hand. Proving rape is going to be difficult. If there is video evidence, then the men are fecked too as extra marital sex is illegal(but I see the men have already fled to the UK, so they are safe). She should consider herself lucky that she holds a british passport. Otherwise she'd be serving the men in their jails for the rest of her life without anyone knowing. I can see NGOs and charities working for her but the arabs don't give two fecks about that crap.

Confucious him say ....
No such thing as rape" - woman with skirt up runs faster than man with trousers down ...

65 percent of 'moderate' muslims support the idea of sharia law in this country

This is a nonsense btw and a typical soundbite that underpins much of the uninformed bigotry that prevails.

Simply because Sharia law is hard to define.  There is a world of difference between the Saudi style extreme interpretation and application and the more common sense code for living a life that most survey respondents would have in mind.

How can you have a law that is hard to define?

What a stupid thing to say.

gopgle interpretations and application of Sharia Law

"Guilty or not guilty?"

"Well we aren't really sure as the law is hard to define"

Too dangerous to contemplate such a thing in England.

So you are saying you think rape case should need 4 witnesses as Sharia Law says Ozy?

I think you are the one who is misinformed on the subject. In fact you could be described as a bigot for closing your eyes to any criticism of it.

if it differs from English law in any way it is not acceptable, if it doesn't differ there is no need for it.

Wrong to blame a potential rape victim but the mind boggles that a woman would go in to an Arab police station in a country where they can get in to trouble by showing their shoulders in a public place and try and report a sex crime.

Let me try to re-explain it for you.

The point is what survey respondents (UK moderate Muslims) have in mind when they respond to a question about Sharia Law (a common sense code for living, fairly harmlesss).....and alternatively .....the image that is prevalent in the West and related to a Saudi  style hardcore interpretation and application...are  worlds apart..

So..."Sharia Law" can mean very many different things to different people.  the term 'Sharia Law' needs to be elaborated upon and defined...in order for the results of the survey to have any substance.

If for example you asked UK moderate Muslims if they would be open to Saudi Style Sharia Law in the Uk....you would get a very different answer.

So Sharia law does NOT require 4 witnesses then Ozy?

Forgive me, but a couple on here criticising the woman. If I were taking my girlfriend there(more chance of spotting the ball) I would not expect her to look up rape etiquette before leaving home, ffs.

BBC Radio (2015): 45% of British Muslims agree that clerics preaching violence against the West represent "mainstream Islam".
http://www.comres.co.uk/polls/bbc-radio-4-today-muslim-poll/

So like this split, nearly half of Muslims in the UK agree  that mainstream Islam is violence against the west and the other half disagree?

ozy and the rest love to confuse - they just like the idea themselves or don't you notice the slant they have on it

We (or at least I) am discusing what the term "Sharia Law" means to survey respondents in the UK.

everyone in England is allowed to have a common sense code for living, as long as it is in accordance with English law.

So they want Sharia law, but don't know exactly what it is or what form it would take

they cannot have any other law apart from English law, anything else would be illegal.

it is illegal in England for individuals to make the law. For almost 500 years English law is what the English parliament says is the law.

Unless you live in tower hamlets

ICM Poll (2016): 23% of British Muslim support the introduction of Sharia in the UK "instead of British Law"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3532355/More-half-Muslims-want-gay-sex-outlawed-nearly-quarter-support-areas-UK-run-sharia-law.html

^ Same issue....no definition of what from of Sahria law is being refered to in the question.

If that hasn't clicked with you at this point, I am not sure it ever will.

it doesn't matter what form it takes, if it differs from English law it is illegal, if it doesn't differ there is no need for it.

It's a survey question lfc...the wording of the question effects the response.

Bloody hell, its like being in a special needs classroom.

yes Ozy,

Sharia law or Uk law

I agree its very confusing.

yes I get that. I am not interested in how many agree with sharia law in its many aspects.
I would only be interested if everyone said no, we prefer to live under English law.
its much too dangerous a concept to rely on a survey and what people might say.

The SNPs MSP Tasmina Ahmed Sheikh is a solicitor and her office is the first in Scotland to offer both UK and Sharia law.

for your info Ozy, the question was

"Would you support or oppose areas of Britain in which Sharia is introduced instead of British Law"

Not sure why you claim its invalid.

that doesn't surprise me. The SNP would do almost anything if they felt it would undermine our joint history.

I can't see why any law other than the law of the land is even discussable. What if Catholics or anglers suggested such a thing?

Can only assume you are winding me up at this point, Male.

Good luck to ya.

ok name some sharia law that differs depending on the so called hard or soft version?

No matter what version you go by men claim the right to physically reprimand thgeir wife when she's in the wrong.

Only just noticed this thread

Nov 17, 2016 -- 6:31PM, maleuk01. wrote:

ok name some sharia law that differs depending on the so called hard or soft version?

I can understand what Ozy is saying. Most muslims do not have any issue with Sharia law because they have hardly anything to fear from it(men at least). I have actually asked this question to many myself. Never asked a woman though.

THere is of course one sharia law, which has diferent interpretations on some specific issues. But as far as everydya life is concerned, its the same. Saudi Arabia is the only muslim country that enforces it in full(and also the fav ally of the West). The other countries(majority of the muslim world) only 'derive' their laws from the sharia law. For instance, sex outside marriage is illegal in all muslim countries, because the sharia law says so. Making it legal means you are going against the teachings of Islam. However, punishing the rapist with 100 lashes(probably what the sharia law says) or with a 10 year jail term(a typical muslim country) is allowed to differ, because scholars agree that the crime is still getting punished and hence doesn't go against the teachings of Islam. This is how they 'derive' their laws from Sharia law. At least that is what i understand.

They will examine the allegation of rape with very little enthusiasm because their starting point will be that she is a western woman  of low morals who was drunk and tempted men and in the past has had many casual sexual partners. If that is true or not they will start to view it in that from, this is not English Law.

I read somewhere that she should not have gone to the police but first should have gone to the British embassy out there, how many women would have known that ?

Exactly what I siad, why go to foreign police when the embassy will help you. and you are right about the low morals part. My first reaction was that she was having a great time in her hotel and once she got sober she realised what had happened and thought she'll report rape. Even if this is not what happened, this is what the police will think.

You have decided she was probably not raped, and if she was, telling the police was a mistake. No surprise you are welcoming the newcomers, your country is almost lost.

I have not decided anything. I am telling you how the folks in that part think. As I said, even the locals avoid the police. There is a reason why the men 'own' the women. Its because its not possible for the women to do stuff on their own in that part. As a tourist, you should at least inform yourself of the basics. I feel sorry for the woman for being trapped there, but I dont feel sorry for her for reporting being raped in an arab country.

Alternatively I could bash the Sharia law, call the arabs names, tell you all how barbaric their religion is.  I could also list a few verses and you'll all join me in bashing them. But i am just telling you what the reality is(and as usual no one wants to hear it).

what is the point in arab police if they dont help anyone!

I read somewhere that she should not have gone to the police but first should have gone to the British embassy out there, how many women would have known that ?

You would like to think that people read UK govt. travel advice for countries they are going to so they know what to do in the event something does go wrong.

ttps://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/united-arab-emirates/safety-and-security

Personal attacks, including sexual assault and rape, are relatively rare, but do happen. UAE law places a high burden of proof on the victim to demonstrate that the sexual relations were not consensual, especially when the victim had consumed alcohol or where the alleged attacker was known to the victim. If the sexual relations are determined to have been consensual, both parties may face prosecution for the offence of sex outside marriage. In 2013, a Norwegian woman who reported her rape to Dubai police was convicted of sex outside marriage and illegal consumption of alcohol.

Be fair to the lady,Dubai has promoted itself very strongly as a tourist destination and she was,apparently stopping over en route to Australia for a new life after divorce.The lady deserves support but if she has to rely on our noble Foreign Office for help she is in a desperate place (personal experience).

Facts could be very different. There might be more to this story than they tell us.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=378NZFUtOI4

dubai have seemingly seen sense and dropped charges against the lady

God to hear. Hope this brings more awareness to people as to what not to do when in an arab country!

Don't get on the plane would be my advice to any woman.

I'm totally confused

This woman was being held on a charge of having extra-marital sex after she claimed she was raped.... and then when they looked at the evidence (presumably what was filmed on their phone ?) then this proved it was consensual extra-marital sex.... and they dropped the case ? ?

doesnt add up

^ No, doesn't add up, so either she made a false claim that she was raped, or she may have been drugged and was branded "consenting".

Apparently the video on one of the lad's phones showed a willingness on behalf of the lady,hence a release on rape charges, but I sense Dubai is protecting its tourist industry there.If this was originally driven by their religious police this could indicate a dangerous undercurrent in play with the rulers starting to be challenged by the local Imams.