is the roulette in betting shops a fixed odds terimal

Classed as random - but random = BENT

I think the clue is in the name FOBTs

Why you thinking of having a go of getting into it Bill!

A lack of enterprise to this fred metinks..

Fixed Odds Betting Terminal.

but numbers are apparently random, which i doubt from previous experience.

basically they're a law unto themselves

As soon as you press the play button the outcome is known.
The spinning wheel is purely window dressing.
Same with all games on the FOBTs.
Hi/Lo don't make a hoot whether you go hi or lo.

I manage a bookies and im still not sure. It says its random but also says it has a 97% payout.

Bang on Akabula, the spinning ball, card games etc dont matter a €ufk. The punters balance goes up or down as soon it they bang it.

rented the machines myself blakesnight & seen that absolute nonsense sticker
that says 97% payout....wtf does that mean?

at least with the old style fruit machines people knew where they stood, the machine
would obviously keep a % of the money put in.

as i said this lot are a law to themselves

97% equates to an overround of 103%. They can operate at a very low margin due to the monumental no. of events in the shop opening times.
I see no reason to doubt the 97% figure. They draw the absolute mugs in, hook, line and sinker.Then there's the money launderers.
They wash their dirty money through the machines and come out with clean money and are happy to pay the tax. The bookies get chunks, the
government gets chunks, so no questions asked.

97% means it pays out the same as a casino, 97.3% to be precise.

Whether they do or not I've no idea.

piont i making is
if u go into a casino and play the wheel for say 24 hours, u could come out winning

if u play a roulette wheel in a betting shop for 24 hours, could u come out winning or are you sure to lose

The limits set on the betting shop machines make winning in the longer term less likely, unless you're on low stakes/low expectations, starship. Also, The even chances lose when zero comes up on the machines, unlike the 1/2 stake loss in the casino.

I've often wondered the same, not that I play roulette now, but I was stupidly hooked for about 25 years on going to the casino.

Stow's post makes sense. You should end up the same whether you play in a shop or casino.

24 hours on the FOBT at full speed is equivalent to about 72 hours in a casino.

Evens lose! Didn't know that.

24 hours on the FOBT at full speed is equivalent to about 72 hours in a casino.

Good point, which I missed.

I'd guess you could win over any short period, but that it is impossible to win long term.
On Evs red or black, the minimum stake is £1 and the maximum stake is £250.
Doubling up after each loser gives you 8 bets. The longest recorded streak of one color in
roulette in American casino history happened in 1943 when the color red won 32 consecutive times.

Surely it's 97% because there are 36 numbers+0 so 36/37


Doesn't need to be bent when they account for £400million+ of William Hills revenue

but there's other games black jack etc..

so do they all come under this 97% payout thing?

No, that's just roulette. 36 divided by 37 (the numbers on a wheel) = 97.3.

So they're paying you 35/1 when the true odds are 36/1 (on the numbers)

A previous thread on them Ron
http://community.betfair.com/horse_racing/go/thread/view/94102/29770405/the-97-payout-on-fobts-is-correct-but

Cheers Stow.

but i don't wanna know, i've already near ruined my life over them

Me too, Ron. Casino free for about 14 years now. Got a lot of my losses back back on here combined with the bookies.

betlarge
13 Feb 13 10:41 Joined: 14 Jan 02
When punters hear FOBT's pay out 97% on average per spin many think it's nonsense, but that 97% return figure is absolutely correct - in fact on the latest figures it's actually a touch higher than that!

Below is a link to the recorded figures for April 2011 to March 2012 showing a total profit of £1.46 billion from all FOBT's from £40 billion staked. That shows a 2.74% profit margin therefore a standard return of 97.26%

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2013/feb/11/cost-of-gambling-britain-today-data?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487

However, this is by no means the full story.  The damage to stakes is not done in the profit margin but rather in the rapid and repetitive play which also ensures rapid stake degradation (i.e. £100 x 97%, £97 x 97%, £94.09 x 97% etc etc).  Therefore after just 30 spins of a £100 stake (10-15 mins play) the average loss will be a whopping 60%!

The machines are also designed to come up with various 'near miss' scenarios for the credulous and to press the right neurological buttons for the weak.  This addictive cocktail is so powerful that IN REALITY the most common overall 'session' result is a 100% loss - most players simply play until bust.

That '97% return' is totally correct - but it's also completely irrelevant in a real-world situation.

nobody has really answered the question.
is the betting shop roulette random or is it fixed

it's definitely "fixed"

Well IF it pays out 97% it's random.

Surely random, it does not need to be fixed

Now he's confused. lol

Fook me

Should be

Bent odds Betting Terminals

when u play at a casino it is randon.
when u play the machine, the machine knows what you have betted before it spins the wheel,
so does it adjusts to where the ball lands

I'd be amazed if it does. It doesn't really need to. 3% profit is more than enough considering the speed of the spins, and the number of seats that seem to be taken.

it just i have seeen on you tube a few times, where a guy has nearly covered all the numbers,
and where does the ball,
the number he has not covered.
i know it happens on a casino roulette reel and u take it as one of those things.
but on a betting shop rouleete , it just seems contrived

They should change that 97% payout sticker to..

Chances are you put 100£ in you'll get **** all back

Below is a link to the recorded figures for April 2011 to March 2012 showing a total profit of £1.46 billion from all FOBT's from £40 billion staked. That shows a 2.74% profit margin therefore a standard return of 97.26%

Says it all.
A very sensible post Stow, the law of large numbers says the punter must lose in the long term. As in normal roulette.

They use a lot of psychological tricks as you say Stow...but they don't alter the odds in the long term.

A Roulette wheel in a casino is completely randon.
The Roulette wheels (FOBTs) in betting shops are only random to a point ...it is relatively simple to program an electronic  machine to ensure it pays out 3%(or 2.74%) on turnover over time.

Ask yourself this. If you could tweak a roulette wheel without anyone knowing, to get more profit, would you do it? At the casino with a wheel, probably a 3% margin is enough and no one needs to play any tricky games. But at the terminal, if the casino owner has the option to change the 3% to 30% and get rich quicker, why would he not do it? If you can come up with a decent reason, let me know.

1st spin £100 return £97
2nd spin £97 return £94.09
3rd apin £94.09 return £91.27
4th spin £91.27 return £88.53
5th spin £88.53 return £85.87
6th spin £85.87 return £83.29
7th spin £83.29 return £80.79
8th spin £80.79 return £78.37
9th spin £78.37 return £76.02
10th spin £76.02 return £73.74

Sep 28, 2016 -- 12:05PM, detraveller wrote:

Ask yourself this. If you could tweak a roulette wheel without anyone knowing, to get more profit, would you do it? At the casino with a wheel, probably a 3% margin is enough and no one needs to play any tricky games. But at the terminal, if the casino owner has the option to change the 3% to 30% and get rich quicker, why would he not do it? If you can come up with a decent reason, let me know.

because the entire "attraction" of roulette is that winning streaks can happen, this means that the mugs come back hoping for one of these streaks.  Some keep coming back until they lose everything.

If the odds were as bad as you suggest, no one would ever have a winning session and quite quickly realise that they had no chance and go elsewhere.

Also it would be a criminal offence, however there is no chance of prosecution as the Gambling Commission is inept.

still no one has answered my question

still no one has answered my question

dig out your bow tie, tell your queen to get her dress on and get down for a serious night at a real casino. Enjoy your meal in between sessions.

Sep 28, 2016 -- 4:39PM, dukeofpuke wrote:

1st spin £100 return £972nd spin £97 return £94.093rd apin £94.09 return £91.274th spin £91.27 return £88.535th spin £88.53 return £85.876th spin £85.87 return £83.297th spin £83.29 return £80.798th spin £80.79 return £78.379th spin £78.37 return £76.0210th spin £76.02 return £73.74

So you would have bet approximately £875 and your initial £100 is now £74. I wonder how much you'd walk away with if you put £875 through a fruit machine. I don't understand why anyone would play these machines, other than having a quick £2 on ZERO for a laugh, but it's no different from any other form of problem gambling.

Starship.
To answer your question, they are Random Number generated games of chance, which pay out at fixed odds (ie. the prices never change).

They are 'supposed' to be regulated and verified and beyond cheating, but there is no way of actually checking this. Hence people questioning their veracity.
The computer game is supposed to be fair, and is regulated and licenced as such. However there will always be doubt.
Personally, I think there is dodginess and was told by an programmer of these things when they were first invented about how the %age could be and indeed were "tweaked" on the machines in the Badblokes shops at the time.
They did it by adding extra random numbers so instead of 1-37 (1 - 36 plus 0) it would generate a number between 1 and 40 or 41, and if a number higher than 37 came up the cartoon roulette would just show a number which hadn't been bet on as being the winning number.

Ever since that day, I have asked about this and it has been denied emphatically and those particular machines no longer exist. However, I see no reason it couldn't easily be done.

That sounds very believable Studyform

I thought so, ron.

detraveller
Ask yourself this. If you could tweak a roulette wheel without anyone knowing, to get more profit, would you do it? At the casino with a wheel, probably a 3% margin is enough and no one needs to play any tricky games. But at the terminal, if the casino owner has the option to change the 3% to 30% and get rich quicker, why would he not do it? If you can come up with a decent reason, let me know.

Any changes are recorded and can't be hidden.

Stow the money laundering idea is well covered with machines recording everything.
Bookies must look out for it, easy to spot, and report accordingly.

Think the money-laundering thing is over played. The overwhelming majority of people playing these machines are doing so becuase they can't do their dough quick enough.

i was always amazed that folk could play these machines not stop
without seemingly losing internet connection

seems they were the only things that never got disconnected from
internet

people also told me there were patterns of same number coming up
in clusters

i wondered if internet connection was lost that machine defaulted to
previous numbers in short term memory ?

What are the payout ratios on the £500 fruit machines? eg Luck of The Irish?

I got really pissed off when one online casino site said i could have a free £50 if i staked £50.  I got the account up to about £160 and tried to withdraw the profit (i.e the £60), but wasn't allowed to.  Some rule about how I had to wager something like 20 times the deposit.   If payout ratio is 97%, after 20 times, you'll be down to £54, but say if it's a fruit machine on 90% that's £12.

I have always thought the payout ratio is somewhere between 75-90%, but that is if they are played properly/optimally.

I believe it's 94% for slot games on a FOBT.

Sep 29, 2016 -- 1:48PM, lcredd wrote:

I have always thought the payout ratio is somewhere between 75-90%, but that is if they are played properly/optimally.

There is no way to play numbers on roulette "optimally".  That term refers to card games mostly.

I found all the percentages for the various games listed under Help or similar on the FOBT.

The best percentage was the basic roulette game.  Some of the other games were low 90's.

Sep 29, 2016 -- 1:53PM, dave1357 wrote:

Sep 29, 2016 --  1:48PM, lcredd wrote:I have always thought the payout ratio is somewhere between 75-90%, but that is if they are played properly/optimally.There is no way to play numbers on roulette "optimally".  That term refers to card games mostly.

I was referring to the question above which asked about payout ratios on fruit machines. Obviously there is no optimal for roulette, these 'systems' people come up with are beyond ludicrous.