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or is that too harsh??
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Many people find solace and comfort in the religion they follow. There's nothing wrong or ' mental ' about that.
To me they've got psychological issues - not malevolent (but can be).
They just need something to believe in, to follow - be part of something.
And I can't understand why some of them have to wear identifying garb - vicars, mussies, jews etc etc. But they want to be noticed, obviously.
But doctors, nurses, teachers, lawyers, accountants, electricians etc etc don't wear gear the shouts "look at me, I'm a plumber (or whatever)"
They just need something to believe in, to follow - be part of something.
And I can't understand why some of them have to wear identifying garb - vicars, mussies, jews etc etc. But they want to be noticed, obviously.
But doctors, nurses, teachers, lawyers, accountants, electricians etc etc don't wear gear the shouts "look at me, I'm a plumber (or whatever)"
facts..............didn't see you as a bible basher
Dad was a Steeple Baptist......... he'd lie on his back and worship his c0ck.
Mohammed descended to heaven on a chariot of fire in 600 BC
Jesus turned water into wine, brought the dead back to life then rose from the dead himself
Santa takes pressies to all kids in the world in one night
Some would have you believe its only one of those that isn't true.
Jesus turned water into wine, brought the dead back to life then rose from the dead himself
Santa takes pressies to all kids in the world in one night
Some would have you believe its only one of those that isn't true.
Many people will tell you that two of them are not true. Not always the same two mind.
facts..............didn't see you as a bible basher
more of a bishop basher?
more of a bishop basher?
Many people find solace and comfort in the religion they follow. There's nothing wrong or ' mental ' about that.
That's too deep for a lot of people. So are the reasons for bringing a child up as a Christian.
Years ago many kids from very poor backgrounds were kept on the straight and narrow simply from attending Sunday school.
It teaches them Christian values, which also forms part of their character.
Then they always have a religion to refer to when making moral decisions.
Sending kids to Sunday school is bringing up kids to be decent the easy way.
It doesn't matter whether you genuinely believe in God or what's written in the bible.
The kids can make up their own minds about it when they old enough to. And by then the teachings of Christianity and the good work it does will have sunk in.
There's more to this mumbo jumbo than meets the eye.
That's too deep for a lot of people. So are the reasons for bringing a child up as a Christian.
Years ago many kids from very poor backgrounds were kept on the straight and narrow simply from attending Sunday school.
It teaches them Christian values, which also forms part of their character.
Then they always have a religion to refer to when making moral decisions.
Sending kids to Sunday school is bringing up kids to be decent the easy way.
It doesn't matter whether you genuinely believe in God or what's written in the bible.
The kids can make up their own minds about it when they old enough to. And by then the teachings of Christianity and the good work it does will have sunk in.
There's more to this mumbo jumbo than meets the eye.
I was brought up as a catholic, with priests, nuns, bishops and saints.
their 'brainwashing' never rubbed off on me? I hated all they peddled
back then. Atheism is the natural state. It's not god worship. At every
turn growing up religion looked like delusions on toast. But I changed my
opinion aged twenty five? So who 'brainwashed me' - many people are 'born
again' in later years - i no longer ally myself with Catholicism.
My reasons, to me seem logical. Israel is a nation once more, the San Hedrin
is once more in Israel after 1,950 years. the building of the third temple is
imminent. they have cut all the stones, made all the inner parts. the temple
can be built within a year. All this was prophecy to be found in a book in 1945..
after the jews were decimated. in 1945 Israel did not exist. It was delusional
to think it might ever exist.
their 'brainwashing' never rubbed off on me? I hated all they peddled
back then. Atheism is the natural state. It's not god worship. At every
turn growing up religion looked like delusions on toast. But I changed my
opinion aged twenty five? So who 'brainwashed me' - many people are 'born
again' in later years - i no longer ally myself with Catholicism.
My reasons, to me seem logical. Israel is a nation once more, the San Hedrin
is once more in Israel after 1,950 years. the building of the third temple is
imminent. they have cut all the stones, made all the inner parts. the temple
can be built within a year. All this was prophecy to be found in a book in 1945..
after the jews were decimated. in 1945 Israel did not exist. It was delusional
to think it might ever exist.
Maybe 'mentally ill' is stretching it, but one thing is for sure, if someone today invented a religion they would be considered a nut job - see David Icke.
This is an interesting theory. I mean, why do you think they would be considered a but job now and not 2000 years ago when the apostles first starting preaching Christ? If you read Acts 2, you'll see that actually, many people in Jerusalem accused Peter of being drunk or insane while he was giving his sermon at Pentecost. This is not a new concept, its been getting said since the start of Christianity, and its not any more true now than it was then.
Its only easy to hold this opinion if your only experience of Chrisitanity is the betfiar forum but meet a few mature Christians and it becomes very obvious that its got no grounding. Amongst other things I know a Christian who was a senior radiographer in a cancer hospital, one who wrote a book on the merits of multiverse theory, numerous doctors, nurses, social workers etc. do you really think these people would be allowed to do their jobs if they were mentally ill? Do these seem to you like the type of people who are weak of mind?
This is an interesting theory. I mean, why do you think they would be considered a but job now and not 2000 years ago when the apostles first starting preaching Christ? If you read Acts 2, you'll see that actually, many people in Jerusalem accused Peter of being drunk or insane while he was giving his sermon at Pentecost. This is not a new concept, its been getting said since the start of Christianity, and its not any more true now than it was then.
Its only easy to hold this opinion if your only experience of Chrisitanity is the betfiar forum but meet a few mature Christians and it becomes very obvious that its got no grounding. Amongst other things I know a Christian who was a senior radiographer in a cancer hospital, one who wrote a book on the merits of multiverse theory, numerous doctors, nurses, social workers etc. do you really think these people would be allowed to do their jobs if they were mentally ill? Do these seem to you like the type of people who are weak of mind?
before you say you are godless? please examine your life.
Do you have a collection of David Bowie albums or some other
god of music. Do you know all the words, does the Music send
you into a trance state. Do you hero worship someone in sports.
do you go to political rallies and put your trust in some super
politician that will rule with beneficence?
everybody believes in something? even nihilism.
Do you have a collection of David Bowie albums or some other
god of music. Do you know all the words, does the Music send
you into a trance state. Do you hero worship someone in sports.
do you go to political rallies and put your trust in some super
politician that will rule with beneficence?
everybody believes in something? even nihilism.
here's a question.
was joseph smith completely full of sh1t?
was joseph smith completely full of sh1t?
"Mohammed descended to heaven on a chariot of fire in 600 BC"
Question for Zorro and fkqmz, do you believe the above statement to be true? (Probably ascended rather than descended according to tradition).
Question for Zorro and fkqmz, do you believe the above statement to be true? (Probably ascended rather than descended according to tradition).
if you tolerate the intolerant you are merely advocating intolerance.
Come to think of it, I think the claim is that Mohammed ascended to heaven on a winged horse so to reframe the question, do you believe that Mohammed ascended to heaven according to Islamic belief?
There is a very strong evolutionary reason for the existence of religion. I get that. But I don't have to conform to it.
And there are lots of highly intelligent people who follow a religion. But they are still weak minded in that respect, or weak willed. Unable or unwilling (due to peer pressure, family pressure) to see the nonsense in religion.
And there are lots of highly intelligent people who follow a religion. But they are still weak minded in that respect, or weak willed. Unable or unwilling (due to peer pressure, family pressure) to see the nonsense in religion.
for Fionavon,
Muhammad was a warlord, the Jews nicknamed him 'all ears' he would listen to the Jews with their one god and their stories which they told in the market places. A lot of those stories were adulterations of the old testament. Other stories came from Greek and other religions. a winged horse is obviously Pegasus from the Greek stories. circa 600 bc.
to frame this, you need some perspective. God and Satan. both are spiritual beings. we are spiritual beings in corrupting bodies(houses-jewish word).
the old testement started 5776? years ago (speed of light variable?)
it is as old as the Buddhist religion if not older? Islam is from 600 AD? pre-islam, it was a pagan moon gods religion, the prayed to the east, they kissed stones, they circled their sacred site - all the stuff they do now under another name. Muhammad killed thousands, captured and raped and died of poisoning(Jeremiah gave a warning to false prophets that they would die of poisoning? can't argue there).
Islam claims dubious affinity to the Jewish and christian religions. Jesus on the cross said 'it is done'. meaning he had fulfilled all of God's plan. the redemption of man was finished. No need for an arab warlord add on.
Who needs the false prophets, the other religions? the enemy. An angel appeared to Muhammad with the deception that gives power to the lies. who could that be? the greatest of all the angels. He sets up false religions as he is a spiritual enemy. He lays out his shell game and asks you to pick one. he's still churning out counterfeit religions.
there is one book that comes with prophecy - that can be tested.
the bible isn't just a collection of stories of brutal wars and sinning. It's a book about God's love for his bride. We are redeemed to be part of his family. Satan shook off his body(house) and was cast out. the saved are given new bodies(houses).
'In My Father's house there are many mansions. And if not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you?'
Jesus is just the old testament fulfilled. He could have been mute and still fulfilled the function of being God's Sacrifice to end all sins. If someone claims Jesus as his saviour he does what Jacob did in his father's tent. He puts on the lamb's skin and receives his father's blessing. (you see these stories have a meaning if you investigate them).
fun fact - there are 11 trillion stars per person on earth,
the chinese word for boat combines the characters 'vessel' 'people' and 'eight'.
Muhammad was a warlord, the Jews nicknamed him 'all ears' he would listen to the Jews with their one god and their stories which they told in the market places. A lot of those stories were adulterations of the old testament. Other stories came from Greek and other religions. a winged horse is obviously Pegasus from the Greek stories. circa 600 bc.
to frame this, you need some perspective. God and Satan. both are spiritual beings. we are spiritual beings in corrupting bodies(houses-jewish word).
the old testement started 5776? years ago (speed of light variable?)
it is as old as the Buddhist religion if not older? Islam is from 600 AD? pre-islam, it was a pagan moon gods religion, the prayed to the east, they kissed stones, they circled their sacred site - all the stuff they do now under another name. Muhammad killed thousands, captured and raped and died of poisoning(Jeremiah gave a warning to false prophets that they would die of poisoning? can't argue there).
Islam claims dubious affinity to the Jewish and christian religions. Jesus on the cross said 'it is done'. meaning he had fulfilled all of God's plan. the redemption of man was finished. No need for an arab warlord add on.
Who needs the false prophets, the other religions? the enemy. An angel appeared to Muhammad with the deception that gives power to the lies. who could that be? the greatest of all the angels. He sets up false religions as he is a spiritual enemy. He lays out his shell game and asks you to pick one. he's still churning out counterfeit religions.
there is one book that comes with prophecy - that can be tested.
the bible isn't just a collection of stories of brutal wars and sinning. It's a book about God's love for his bride. We are redeemed to be part of his family. Satan shook off his body(house) and was cast out. the saved are given new bodies(houses).
'In My Father's house there are many mansions. And if not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you?'
Jesus is just the old testament fulfilled. He could have been mute and still fulfilled the function of being God's Sacrifice to end all sins. If someone claims Jesus as his saviour he does what Jacob did in his father's tent. He puts on the lamb's skin and receives his father's blessing. (you see these stories have a meaning if you investigate them).
fun fact - there are 11 trillion stars per person on earth,
the chinese word for boat combines the characters 'vessel' 'people' and 'eight'.
zorro .... how do you know any of this nonsense ?
Quoting rubbish as if its facts.
You forgot to mention Father Xmas, Loch Ness Monster etc. etc.
Quoting rubbish as if its facts.
You forgot to mention Father Xmas, Loch Ness Monster etc. etc.
Thanks Zorro. I always wondered how you could reconcile belief in one story book and reject a very similar one that over a billion people think is the last testament.
The Mohammedans say that their man is the last prophet, that their book is the word of the one and only god and that your Geezer is just an early prophet. Both can't be right but logically both could be wrong.
The Mohammedans say that their man is the last prophet, that their book is the word of the one and only god and that your Geezer is just an early prophet. Both can't be right but logically both could be wrong.
The Parting Of The Red Sea, which led to the legend of Moses, (doubtful Moses ever actually existed) was probably caused by the massive volcanic eruption on Santorini.
Moses is hugely prominent in Jewish, Christian and Islamic religion. So three and a half thousand years of total BS which has totally dominated the human race during most of that period, is probably down to a massive volcanic eruption.
Moses is hugely prominent in Jewish, Christian and Islamic religion. So three and a half thousand years of total BS which has totally dominated the human race during most of that period, is probably down to a massive volcanic eruption.
I always wondered how you could reconcile belief in one story book and reject a very similar one
Really though, how many times do you need the same question answered? ITs not going to be a different answer than the previous 3 million times you've asked this question. Mohammed's prophesies are based on a private dream, something that no one except him saw. Jesus' life was played out in public, in front of eye witnesses whose testaments are still sitting in the Jerusalem museum as hard evidence which you can go and visit today. But you choose not to do that, you choose to point blank ignore the evidence and continue to make it up as you go along, driven by confirmation bias. I wasn't always a Christian, once I thought in exactly the way you do, but I looked at the evidence and I saw the truth. Maybe when you develop the humility to do this, you won't be left wondering about these things any more!
Really though, how many times do you need the same question answered? ITs not going to be a different answer than the previous 3 million times you've asked this question. Mohammed's prophesies are based on a private dream, something that no one except him saw. Jesus' life was played out in public, in front of eye witnesses whose testaments are still sitting in the Jerusalem museum as hard evidence which you can go and visit today. But you choose not to do that, you choose to point blank ignore the evidence and continue to make it up as you go along, driven by confirmation bias. I wasn't always a Christian, once I thought in exactly the way you do, but I looked at the evidence and I saw the truth. Maybe when you develop the humility to do this, you won't be left wondering about these things any more!
I read Zorro's answer and was confirming that to him. I wasn't asking for a repeat.
Whether Jesus actually existed is another story.
Whether Jesus actually existed is another story.
I have trusted tools i keep for making stretchers, take my hammer and place it beside a bright shiny new pound shop hammer. Or even a hammer from a cash and carry. only one of them is reliable. the one that is tried and tested. The others will be from China and India in all probability. looking at my 'old hammer' it's got gouges, paint, it's worn away in places and looks like trash. Nobody would value it if I took it and sold it at a carboot. I might get a pound. The cash and carry hammer will easily get more than a pound. the pound shop hammer will get the pound too.
what hammer is the 'best' and 'reliable' hammer.
what book is the original book, written in Hebrew and Greek.covering 5,775 years. (altered by Muhammad, to suit his evil deeds)
the truth... what is truth. Pilate looked away... not wanting an answer.
the question is why you don't want a free gift. For many the answer is they don't value free gifts. Come a flood it's nice to have a boat. Come a fire it's nice to have a hose. come your time it's nice to have a saviour. For yourself and your family.
what hammer is the 'best' and 'reliable' hammer.
what book is the original book, written in Hebrew and Greek.covering 5,775 years. (altered by Muhammad, to suit his evil deeds)
the truth... what is truth. Pilate looked away... not wanting an answer.
the question is why you don't want a free gift. For many the answer is they don't value free gifts. Come a flood it's nice to have a boat. Come a fire it's nice to have a hose. come your time it's nice to have a saviour. For yourself and your family.
You have eye witness accounts of UFOs, Aliens, Witchcraft, Yetis, Loch Ness and equal absurdities. It's not hard evidence!
counterfeits usually arise when there is something to counterfeit.
for six hundred years Christians said Jesus died on the cross. Muhammad said he didn't die on the cross.
who's telling the truth? A lie usually comes from someone that cannot tell the truth.
Muhammad got all his lies from an Angel calling himself Gabriel, another lie.
Satan the father of all lies, the greatest Angel.
for six hundred years Christians said Jesus died on the cross. Muhammad said he didn't die on the cross.
who's telling the truth? A lie usually comes from someone that cannot tell the truth.
Muhammad got all his lies from an Angel calling himself Gabriel, another lie.
Satan the father of all lies, the greatest Angel.
No one cares in modern absurdities. The older they are the easier it is to stick your head in the sand.
It's a bit dishonest to claim that there is evidence, you can chose to believe but there is no evidence. Look at it this way many religious people believe in miracles, very good but no one had ever seen one as far as we know.
flimsy claims there is evidence, but fails to tell us what that is , and then gets angry when he is questioned, hmmm
According to many, Leicester winning the PL last year was a miracle, and Ranieri is a Legend and a Saint. It's all about perception. The perception of Jesus's miracles had it's roots laid in the story of Moses, which I think probably had it's roots in the aftermath of a volcanic reaction. It's that long ago for it to be only a theory, but it's a very plausible one, unlike the ancient stories of divine intervention. You only have to see videos of magicians, or listen to stories of con artists to see how easy it is to completely fool people.
I suppose it is possible that a miracle could happen, but I would like to look at it, I am sceptical that way.
Perhaps those who believe in such things have the evidence, maybe it's on YouTube and we can see for ourselves?
Wouldn't count on it lfc, a miracle is a violation of the laws of nature, just doesn't happen other than as a figment of someone's imagination.
Have to go and play golf, it will be a beautiful day but almost a miracle if I play well. say a little prayer
the great apostasy in action - more room in heaven.
there is only one know it all in my universe.
it's not me by the way. I just know one thing.
the rest is up for debate.
there is only one know it all in my universe.
it's not me by the way. I just know one thing.
the rest is up for debate.
they are up their own 'arris.
blackhole theory.
blackhole theory.
And the answer to portmanparks original question is 'Tyson Fury'.........end of thread!
Interesting how some Christians (and not just Christians) become arrogant and/or abusive when their beliefs are questioned. You could be forgiven for thinking they don't have a leg to stand on.
Some will chop your f'in head off for questioning their faith.
Here's how they do it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kry_r-DhAzU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kry_r-DhAzU
Quite merciful compared with burning at the stake.
You can't beat a good hanging on a Friday afternoon though.
Who hangs people for questioning their religion?
I think you've come off the rails there Foinavon.
I think you've come off the rails there Foinavon.
I was thinking of the scenes from football stadia in Afghanistan where women were hanged for adultery but as you said they weren't questioning the faith.
From Wikipedia on the existence of Jesus.
"R. Joseph Hoffmann at the Jesus Project noted that Jesus is getting more vague, ambiguous, and uncertain the more scholars study him, rather than the other way around .... notable experts who have published peer reviewed books on the historicity of Jesus using the most current scholarship available on the subject include: Dale Allison, Bart Ehrman, Amy-Jill Levine and Geza Vermes, all of whom believe that the historical Jesus existed and oppose the Christ Myth Theory, but who tend to see the historical Jesus as a Jewish preacher who never claimed to be God nor had any intention to found a religion. However some authors disagree with this consensus"
The existence of Muhammed is highly dubious. Hard to find a grain of truth in any of it
.
"R. Joseph Hoffmann at the Jesus Project noted that Jesus is getting more vague, ambiguous, and uncertain the more scholars study him, rather than the other way around .... notable experts who have published peer reviewed books on the historicity of Jesus using the most current scholarship available on the subject include: Dale Allison, Bart Ehrman, Amy-Jill Levine and Geza Vermes, all of whom believe that the historical Jesus existed and oppose the Christ Myth Theory, but who tend to see the historical Jesus as a Jewish preacher who never claimed to be God nor had any intention to found a religion. However some authors disagree with this consensus"
The existence of Muhammed is highly dubious. Hard to find a grain of truth in any of it
.
You won't be saying that when they come for you the Dragon
Religion is easily described by Karl Marx imo....
"Religion is the opium of the masses".
Couldn't be more simple if you think about it.
"Religion is the opium of the masses".
Couldn't be more simple if you think about it.
For every point made against the religiously minded (it's sort of morphed into Christians and our old friends the Muslims, well, extremist Muslims, who are always good for making points in these kind of threads) you can make exactly the same point for atheists.
Steven Fry, Richard Dawkins even the OP here can get hostile, patronising and aggressive regarding Christianity / those of faith. South Korea have done away with faith and are hardly a poster state for peace and harmony and intellectual progressivism (unless we extend a belief in a religious deity to belief in a supreme corporeal being accounting for their collective madness).
As usual, 'religion' or 'those of religious persuasion' has morphed into 'religious extremists' who can be put up to bolster any argument you like regarding intolerance and hypocrisy, when of course these headline grabbers are an absolute minority worldwide.
Steven Fry, Richard Dawkins even the OP here can get hostile, patronising and aggressive regarding Christianity / those of faith. South Korea have done away with faith and are hardly a poster state for peace and harmony and intellectual progressivism (unless we extend a belief in a religious deity to belief in a supreme corporeal being accounting for their collective madness).
As usual, 'religion' or 'those of religious persuasion' has morphed into 'religious extremists' who can be put up to bolster any argument you like regarding intolerance and hypocrisy, when of course these headline grabbers are an absolute minority worldwide.
Charles Darwin was training to be a minister ? before he went on his
Voyages - His encounters with the bawdy sailors of the beagle he recounts
in his autobiography gave him some doubts.
'I have never been an atheist in the sense of denying the existence of a God'
from the letters of Charles Darwin.
'I for one must remain an agnostic' from autobiography of Charles Darwin.
an agnostic being someone that is undecided.
Voyages - His encounters with the bawdy sailors of the beagle he recounts
in his autobiography gave him some doubts.
'I have never been an atheist in the sense of denying the existence of a God'
from the letters of Charles Darwin.
'I for one must remain an agnostic' from autobiography of Charles Darwin.
an agnostic being someone that is undecided.
poor lass of 16 was one of those killed in the mall shooting in the usa - she had recovered from cancer earlier in life - if there is a god he must be a bit sick to allow such things to happen particularly as those who believe in his existence talk of his omnipotence
you are seeing this life as the only life
eternity implies more than three score and ten.
every single person's body will die - is it sick to then
bestow immortality on every one of God's creations.
the Spirit survives death, you idiots.
eternity implies more than three score and ten.
every single person's body will die - is it sick to then
bestow immortality on every one of God's creations.
the Spirit survives death, you idiots.
Do animal's sprits survive? If not, why not, and if so how far down the food chain would this go?
I'd really like animals in heaven. There is references to certain creatures.
'Then God said, [b]"Let us make man in our image, in our likeness[/b], and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground." (Genesis 1:26, NIV)
Most interpreters of the Bible assume that man’s likeness to God and animals’ subservience to man implies that animals may have the "breath of life," nephesh chay in Hebrew, but not an immortal soul in the same sense as man’s.'
it's really an unknown?
there is a split in time line in revelation. the body of Christ ascends to heaven and is instantly safe in heaven. Jesus then returns to earth to rule for a thousand years. This might imply people living a thousand years and a further judgment.
'Then God said, [b]"Let us make man in our image, in our likeness[/b], and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground." (Genesis 1:26, NIV)
Most interpreters of the Bible assume that man’s likeness to God and animals’ subservience to man implies that animals may have the "breath of life," nephesh chay in Hebrew, but not an immortal soul in the same sense as man’s.'
it's really an unknown?
there is a split in time line in revelation. the body of Christ ascends to heaven and is instantly safe in heaven. Jesus then returns to earth to rule for a thousand years. This might imply people living a thousand years and a further judgment.
zorro.....'Then God said, [b]"Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground." (Genesis 1:26, NIV)
Most interpreters of the Bible assume that man’s likeness to God and animals’ subservience to man implies that animals may have the "breath of life," nephesh chay in Hebrew, but not an immortal soul in the same sense as man’s[/b]
So 'GOD' has hands feet and ,presumedly a penis if we are modelled on him.
Why would he need to create us if he had the means to breed himself(with who i don't know)?
It's so obviously written by man for men to have power over others.
Adam and eve ...eve created from adam's rib...really?
Studies of embrios have found that all feotuses start out FEMALE ..the male parts coming later or not if a girl.
Most interpreters of the Bible assume that man’s likeness to God and animals’ subservience to man implies that animals may have the "breath of life," nephesh chay in Hebrew, but not an immortal soul in the same sense as man’s[/b]
So 'GOD' has hands feet and ,presumedly a penis if we are modelled on him.
Why would he need to create us if he had the means to breed himself(with who i don't know)?
It's so obviously written by man for men to have power over others.
Adam and eve ...eve created from adam's rib...really?
Studies of embrios have found that all feotuses start out FEMALE ..the male parts coming later or not if a girl.
"the Spirit survives death, you idiots"
Steady on, old boy.
Steady on, old boy.
Sep 25, 2016 -- 1:12PM, cardifffc wrote:
roger.........north korea
Ribotman - Again an idiot response - showing the level of brain function i always
expect from people who ask questions about God on here.
To expect a comprehensive answer on here would take pages not a few lines.
Jesus when talking to the Samaritan woman by the fountain (it's in the bible - that one book you all avoid)Says - 'GOD IS SPIRIT'
so when god made us in his likeness... he made us spirit.
He then clothed us after the fall. Giving us an 'oikiterion' a house, a dwelling place.
(this stuff is in the bible - FKIN pick up a copy, legalistic Greeks)
IF YOU EAT OF THE FRUIT YOU SHALL SURELY DIE - after they ate the fruit, they realized they were naked and put on clothes(oikiterion), they were shoved out of eden and a large angel was placed at the entrance to keep out Lucifer and man.
Jesus has repeatedly stated that a new 'oikiterion' a new body will be given to you in heaven. One that is eternal.
The angels that fell with Lucifer cast off their 'oikiterion' their heavenly bodies when they were forced out of heaven. The spirit is of a higher dimensionality. the superior article. As usual everything here in betfair is reduced to a knob gag.
expect from people who ask questions about God on here.
To expect a comprehensive answer on here would take pages not a few lines.
Jesus when talking to the Samaritan woman by the fountain (it's in the bible - that one book you all avoid)Says - 'GOD IS SPIRIT'
so when god made us in his likeness... he made us spirit.
He then clothed us after the fall. Giving us an 'oikiterion' a house, a dwelling place.
(this stuff is in the bible - FKIN pick up a copy, legalistic Greeks)
IF YOU EAT OF THE FRUIT YOU SHALL SURELY DIE - after they ate the fruit, they realized they were naked and put on clothes(oikiterion), they were shoved out of eden and a large angel was placed at the entrance to keep out Lucifer and man.
Jesus has repeatedly stated that a new 'oikiterion' a new body will be given to you in heaven. One that is eternal.
The angels that fell with Lucifer cast off their 'oikiterion' their heavenly bodies when they were forced out of heaven. The spirit is of a higher dimensionality. the superior article. As usual everything here in betfair is reduced to a knob gag.
zorro..........have your nearest and dearest had you tested...............if they haven't they should.....quickly
2.2 billion Christians
1.6 billion Muslims
1.0 billion Hindus
If the Christians are right, upwards of 2 billion are wrong.
If the Muslims are right, upwards of 2 billion are wrong.
Isn't it much, much more likely that they are all wrong?
1.6 billion Muslims
1.0 billion Hindus
If the Christians are right, upwards of 2 billion are wrong.
If the Muslims are right, upwards of 2 billion are wrong.
Isn't it much, much more likely that they are all wrong?
Zorro, you are a victim of perhaps the biggest hoax in history and you call us idiots and worse!
You are the one who should read the bible thoroughly and critically not just cherry pick the bits which excite you. The inconsistencies in the gospels are blatant and well documented, they can't even agree on the date of the supposed crucifixion.
If you want to live in a dream world that up to you, we have this life to live, wishful thinking won't get you another.
You are the one who should read the bible thoroughly and critically not just cherry pick the bits which excite you. The inconsistencies in the gospels are blatant and well documented, they can't even agree on the date of the supposed crucifixion.
If you want to live in a dream world that up to you, we have this life to live, wishful thinking won't get you another.
these religionists sure are some sick fkers - hope this helps
Richard Dawkins would rather believe in Aliens than God.
He can't fight intelligent design so he WANTS an advanced
alien civilization to be the creators. This is so he can
pass on judgment for his selfish life.
You tube clips show him talking about viable alien DNA and other
alien Weirdo stuff. Yet he advances phrases like spaghetti
monster, leprechauns, fairies and chocolate pots to compete
with a intelligent designer(god).
faith is needed to be a christian.
signs for the Jewish people.
proof for the Greeks.
Foinavon you fall into the Greek bracket.
for the exact date of the crucifixion? (so greek, legalistic) you can get a book called the coming prince. by Sir Robert Anderson. He might enlighten your ignorance. Every reputable historian will laugh at your denial of Jesus' historicity . It seems you like to cherry pick history - Charles Darwin would call you insane himself. As a man who was training for the ministry and took Christ seriously himself.
You no longer seem intelligent with BS like that.
Inconsistencies in the gospels are what makes it believable. If four witnesses give the exact same account, collusion is implied. differing accounts shows that real people with separate choices witnessed the event. different emphasis on the same events supports the veracity of their statements. Just like everybody here has a different opinion.
He can't fight intelligent design so he WANTS an advanced
alien civilization to be the creators. This is so he can
pass on judgment for his selfish life.
You tube clips show him talking about viable alien DNA and other
alien Weirdo stuff. Yet he advances phrases like spaghetti
monster, leprechauns, fairies and chocolate pots to compete
with a intelligent designer(god).
faith is needed to be a christian.
signs for the Jewish people.
proof for the Greeks.
Foinavon you fall into the Greek bracket.
for the exact date of the crucifixion? (so greek, legalistic) you can get a book called the coming prince. by Sir Robert Anderson. He might enlighten your ignorance. Every reputable historian will laugh at your denial of Jesus' historicity . It seems you like to cherry pick history - Charles Darwin would call you insane himself. As a man who was training for the ministry and took Christ seriously himself.
You no longer seem intelligent with BS like that.
Inconsistencies in the gospels are what makes it believable. If four witnesses give the exact same account, collusion is implied. differing accounts shows that real people with separate choices witnessed the event. different emphasis on the same events supports the veracity of their statements. Just like everybody here has a different opinion.
Sir Robert Anderson - quick study on youtube - 30mins or hell.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvZ4CQGFZ2g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvZ4CQGFZ2g
You cherry pick your historians to Zorro.
Richard Dawkins refuted the intelligent designer argument in his book "The Blind Watchmaker)
Charles Darwin lived in an age when it was social suicide to deny Christianity. His wife was also deeply religious and he had concern for her feelings. These reasons explain why he delayed publication for many years. If you bother to read his book you will see that he had serious doubts regarding religion.
The bible is presented as the word of god and as such, the truth. You have just admitted that was written by fallible human beings and believe me, they made a lot of mistakes. The gospel writers were not witnesses, they lived some time after the alleged events and it seems, made it all up.
Richard Dawkins refuted the intelligent designer argument in his book "The Blind Watchmaker)
Charles Darwin lived in an age when it was social suicide to deny Christianity. His wife was also deeply religious and he had concern for her feelings. These reasons explain why he delayed publication for many years. If you bother to read his book you will see that he had serious doubts regarding religion.
The bible is presented as the word of god and as such, the truth. You have just admitted that was written by fallible human beings and believe me, they made a lot of mistakes. The gospel writers were not witnesses, they lived some time after the alleged events and it seems, made it all up.
a load of bull invented by men to control others
hope this helps
hope this helps
"If four witnesses give the exact same account, collusion is implied"
This is usually the first thing a judge tells a jury at the beginning of a trial.
This is usually the first thing a judge tells a jury at the beginning of a trial.
I don't know how many of you have read history in any depth but take a poke at anything 2000 plus years ago if you want to see dodgy vague accounts of ANYTHING that went on.
Just saying.
Just saying.
Just for Fionavon - the exact date of the crucifixion - April 9th 32 AD. now you can build your time machine and go back and kill jesus? Coz it's important the exact day and minute.
(closet mason). 10th of nisan (Jewish calendar).
it's nice that you disregard Darwin's own autobiography after his fame for his theories had been in the mainstream for decades. 'Read between the lines man, the system woulda crushed him. BS alert'.
http://www.alphanewsdaily.com/mathprophecy1.html
they made it all up? then wouldn't recant and were executed for their beliefs? seems so plausible. Coz they knew it was important for the mega conspiracy to continue. WoW. I don't think i'd construct bullshit and love it so much i'd die for it. They can't exactly see that their beliefs would spread to 2.2 billion followers today?
(closet mason). 10th of nisan (Jewish calendar).
it's nice that you disregard Darwin's own autobiography after his fame for his theories had been in the mainstream for decades. 'Read between the lines man, the system woulda crushed him. BS alert'.
http://www.alphanewsdaily.com/mathprophecy1.html
they made it all up? then wouldn't recant and were executed for their beliefs? seems so plausible. Coz they knew it was important for the mega conspiracy to continue. WoW. I don't think i'd construct bullshit and love it so much i'd die for it. They can't exactly see that their beliefs would spread to 2.2 billion followers today?
i saw the man called jesus crucified on that hill at 3pm your Honour. mathew.
i saw the man called jesus crucified on that hill at 3pm your Honour. mark
i saw the man called jesus crucified on that hill at 3pm your Honour. luke
i saw the man called jesus crucified on that hill at 3pm your Honour. john
anybody see collusion in their testimony? besides, you only need one gospel?
it's a bit repetitive.
you dingbats are heading for the cliff edge, i'm shouting but you obviously can't hear me.
time is getting shorter so I'm bowing out - you win?
the book is there if you want to know anything about God? It's not my job to argue with lawyers. you clearly want nothing more than what you have. Goodnight suckers.
don't respond coz i'm offline - GB.
i saw the man called jesus crucified on that hill at 3pm your Honour. mark
i saw the man called jesus crucified on that hill at 3pm your Honour. luke
i saw the man called jesus crucified on that hill at 3pm your Honour. john
anybody see collusion in their testimony? besides, you only need one gospel?
it's a bit repetitive.
you dingbats are heading for the cliff edge, i'm shouting but you obviously can't hear me.
time is getting shorter so I'm bowing out - you win?
the book is there if you want to know anything about God? It's not my job to argue with lawyers. you clearly want nothing more than what you have. Goodnight suckers.
don't respond coz i'm offline - GB.
zorro............do you believe in the world wide flood story??
do you believe in any of the stories in the old testament??
According to John, Jesus was crucified the day before Passover. The others say it was the day of Passover. Given the importance of Passover in the Jewish calendar you would think they would know especially given all the other unlikely events like saints rising from graves and mingling with the people, earthquakes and temple shrouds being rent in two.
Oh and they all agree it was on a Friday so that would make it different years then.
Oh and they all agree it was on a Friday so that would make it different years then.
'i like to think of myself as mentally challenged.'
zorro i think you've acheived that from your childish outbusts about your childish beleifs.
Of course you are entitled to your opinion but so are others who you insult and swear at(would jesus have approved?)
Your's and others beliefs would be harmless if kept to yourselves,but you can't do that,and when critisised resort to shouting and threatening people with hell,and psychological abuse that children have to go through from various religious factions.
zorro i think you've acheived that from your childish outbusts about your childish beleifs.
Of course you are entitled to your opinion but so are others who you insult and swear at(would jesus have approved?)
Your's and others beliefs would be harmless if kept to yourselves,but you can't do that,and when critisised resort to shouting and threatening people with hell,and psychological abuse that children have to go through from various religious factions.
Zorro, reincarnation is a comforting idea for us all, but I ask you what is the point if you can't remember your previous lives ??
minardi • September 21, 2016 11:10 PM BST
I think pets also fall into this category - I jus don't get how people fawn over a cat which if the person were mouse would be eaten after being toyed to death.. it's the soft option ..
I don't think people are mentally ill because they love their pets. A cat is a carnivore, it cannot munch grass. Human beings are carnivores,
we also eat a lot of meat, even though we have a choice.
I suppose if our loved ones were a chocolate cake instead of a human beings we would probably eat them.
Does that us make us all cannibals'.
I don't what this has to do with GOD?
If people want to believe in GOD it is ok with me, as long as it is their own choice.
I think pets also fall into this category - I jus don't get how people fawn over a cat which if the person were mouse would be eaten after being toyed to death.. it's the soft option ..
I don't think people are mentally ill because they love their pets. A cat is a carnivore, it cannot munch grass. Human beings are carnivores,
we also eat a lot of meat, even though we have a choice.
I suppose if our loved ones were a chocolate cake instead of a human beings we would probably eat them.
Does that us make us all cannibals'
.I don't what this has to do with GOD?
If people want to believe in GOD it is ok with me, as long as it is their own choice.
OK mobo, it was the anti cat post, that got to me.
I am easy on religion.
I am easy on religion.
You have eye witness accounts of UFOs, Aliens, Witchcraft, Yetis, Loch Ness and equal absurdities. It's not hard evidence!
But its the nature of those eye witness accounts and the integrity of the people who give them which carries sway isn't it. UFO sightings and Alien abductions are witnessed by individuals with no way to corroborate the story. Luke was demonstrably one of the most intelligent men alive in the 1st century. he wrote his gospel by gathering over 20k eye witness accounts from people around Judea who saw Jesus. Mark wrote his gospel in Rome from listening to Peter's sermons. They knew nothing of each other. If there's nothing in these stories, how is it that those 2 books have accounts of the same events?
But its the nature of those eye witness accounts and the integrity of the people who give them which carries sway isn't it. UFO sightings and Alien abductions are witnessed by individuals with no way to corroborate the story. Luke was demonstrably one of the most intelligent men alive in the 1st century. he wrote his gospel by gathering over 20k eye witness accounts from people around Judea who saw Jesus. Mark wrote his gospel in Rome from listening to Peter's sermons. They knew nothing of each other. If there's nothing in these stories, how is it that those 2 books have accounts of the same events?
No one cares in modern absurdities. The older they are the easier it is to stick your head in the sand.
Again, this is only an opinion you are able to hold over an internet forum. If you actually meet mature evangelical Chrisitans, you will quickly realise just how considered their views are. You've said in other posts that Christianity is akin to a drug which affects people from birth. Again, you's only have to walk into our church to see how blatantly untrue this is. I came to Christ at 28, having spent years considering the value of the historical evidence and then what the most likely explanation for that evidence is. You can continue to hold this view if you like but the truth is that by doing so, its actually you who is sticking your head in the sand because you'd rather create your own explanation for how it is that people become Christians than consider what they say has happened to them.
Look at it this way many religious people believe in miracles, very good but no one had ever seen one as far as we know.
seperate poster, I know
the thing is, if something did happen, you would never concede it as being a God given miracle. You'd just look to every explanation under the sun to arrive at another conclusion. Take Fabrice Muamba for example. Heart stopped for over an hour and then came back to life without brain damage. Fabrice Muamba, a Christian said it was a miracle. The doctor, an atheist, said it was a miracle. I'm not claiming that God brought Fabrice Muamba back from the dead but the point is, in spite of what the patient and the doctor say, you would no doubt tell me that its a complete impossibility. How would you ever know if you did see one?
Again, this is only an opinion you are able to hold over an internet forum. If you actually meet mature evangelical Chrisitans, you will quickly realise just how considered their views are. You've said in other posts that Christianity is akin to a drug which affects people from birth. Again, you's only have to walk into our church to see how blatantly untrue this is. I came to Christ at 28, having spent years considering the value of the historical evidence and then what the most likely explanation for that evidence is. You can continue to hold this view if you like but the truth is that by doing so, its actually you who is sticking your head in the sand because you'd rather create your own explanation for how it is that people become Christians than consider what they say has happened to them.
Look at it this way many religious people believe in miracles, very good but no one had ever seen one as far as we know.
seperate poster, I know
the thing is, if something did happen, you would never concede it as being a God given miracle. You'd just look to every explanation under the sun to arrive at another conclusion. Take Fabrice Muamba for example. Heart stopped for over an hour and then came back to life without brain damage. Fabrice Muamba, a Christian said it was a miracle. The doctor, an atheist, said it was a miracle. I'm not claiming that God brought Fabrice Muamba back from the dead but the point is, in spite of what the patient and the doctor say, you would no doubt tell me that its a complete impossibility. How would you ever know if you did see one?
No more so than those of us who have no religious beliefs.
fkq.........kids die in Africa from famine disease and dirty water but god saves a mega rich footballer............have a rethink
why do people say when a person in found weeks after a disaster its a miracle and attribute it to god............but when people die from lack of food or lack of clean water in Africa god moves in mysterious ways...........that's a fuc**d up way of thinking
Religious “nones” – a shorthand we use to refer to people who self-identify as atheists or agnostics, as well as those who say their religion is “nothing in particular” – now make up roughly 23% of the U.S. adult population. This is a stark increase from 2007, the last time a similar Pew Research study was conducted, when 16% of Americans were “nones.” (During this same time period, Christians have fallen from 78% to 71%.)
Overall, religiously unaffiliated people are more concentrated among young adults than other age groups – 35% of Millennials (those born 1981-1996) are “nones.” In addition, the unaffiliated as a whole are getting even younger. The median age of unaffiliated adults is now 36, down from 38 in 2007 and significantly younger than the overall median age of U.S. adults in 2014 (46).
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/05/13/a-closer-look-at-americas-rapidly-growing-religious-nones/
Overall, religiously unaffiliated people are more concentrated among young adults than other age groups – 35% of Millennials (those born 1981-1996) are “nones.” In addition, the unaffiliated as a whole are getting even younger. The median age of unaffiliated adults is now 36, down from 38 in 2007 and significantly younger than the overall median age of U.S. adults in 2014 (46).
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/05/13/a-closer-look-at-americas-rapidly-growing-religious-nones/
In reply to Foinaven.
"According to John, Jesus was crucified the day before Passover. The others say it was the day of Passover. Given the importance of Passover in the Jewish calendar you would think they would know especially given all the other unlikely events like saints rising from graves and mingling with the people, earthquakes and temple shrouds being rent in two.
Oh and they all agree it was on a Friday so that would make it different years then.Crazy"
The gospel of John doesn't say that Jesus was crucified the day before Passover. The last mention of the Passover in the gospel of John is in 19:31. which uses the phrase "the day of preparation". That's not the same as saying "the day before Passover". Jesus was the fulfilment of the Passover feast. So, the Passover Lamb was selected on the 10th day of the month (nisan); Jesus rode into Jerusalem on the 10th day of the month. Jesus hung on the cross at the same time as the Passover lambs were being slaughtered, the 14th day of the month, the day of Passover, also called the day of preparation. The Hebrew day begins at sundown, and so the Passover meal wasn't eaten until after sunset, the 15th day of the month. which was is first day of the Feast of Unleavened bread (which is always a Sabbath regardless of which day of the week it falls on). So the Passover is part of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. The Gospels used those terms interchangably, which can cause confusion. Once one understands how the terms Passover, Unleavened bread and day of preparation are used in the Gospels there really is no conflict at all in the gospel record. Then during the feast of Unleavened Bread, on the day after the weekly Sabbath each year, which we call Sunday, is the Feast of Firstfruits, when Jesus rose from the dead. Then 49 days later on the Feast of Shavuot (Pentecost) the Holy Spirit was given.
You also make the comment, "they all agree it was on a Friday". Well, Jesus wasn't crucified on a Friday, and none of the gospels teach that. According to the gospel record, only a Wednesday or Thursday crucifixion is possible. Any other day of the week can be ruled out.
So the Spring feasts were a shadow picture of the Messiah's first coming, which Jesus fulfilled perfectly, to the very day and hour. In the same way, the autumn feasts, Day of Trumpets, Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur) and feast of Tabernacles, prefigure the Messiah at His second coming, and He will fulfill those to the very day and hour too. How exactly that will pan out or which year I don't know!
"According to John, Jesus was crucified the day before Passover. The others say it was the day of Passover. Given the importance of Passover in the Jewish calendar you would think they would know especially given all the other unlikely events like saints rising from graves and mingling with the people, earthquakes and temple shrouds being rent in two.
Oh and they all agree it was on a Friday so that would make it different years then.Crazy"
The gospel of John doesn't say that Jesus was crucified the day before Passover. The last mention of the Passover in the gospel of John is in 19:31. which uses the phrase "the day of preparation". That's not the same as saying "the day before Passover". Jesus was the fulfilment of the Passover feast. So, the Passover Lamb was selected on the 10th day of the month (nisan); Jesus rode into Jerusalem on the 10th day of the month. Jesus hung on the cross at the same time as the Passover lambs were being slaughtered, the 14th day of the month, the day of Passover, also called the day of preparation. The Hebrew day begins at sundown, and so the Passover meal wasn't eaten until after sunset, the 15th day of the month. which was is first day of the Feast of Unleavened bread (which is always a Sabbath regardless of which day of the week it falls on). So the Passover is part of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. The Gospels used those terms interchangably, which can cause confusion. Once one understands how the terms Passover, Unleavened bread and day of preparation are used in the Gospels there really is no conflict at all in the gospel record. Then during the feast of Unleavened Bread, on the day after the weekly Sabbath each year, which we call Sunday, is the Feast of Firstfruits, when Jesus rose from the dead. Then 49 days later on the Feast of Shavuot (Pentecost) the Holy Spirit was given.
You also make the comment, "they all agree it was on a Friday". Well, Jesus wasn't crucified on a Friday, and none of the gospels teach that. According to the gospel record, only a Wednesday or Thursday crucifixion is possible. Any other day of the week can be ruled out.
So the Spring feasts were a shadow picture of the Messiah's first coming, which Jesus fulfilled perfectly, to the very day and hour. In the same way, the autumn feasts, Day of Trumpets, Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur) and feast of Tabernacles, prefigure the Messiah at His second coming, and He will fulfill those to the very day and hour too. How exactly that will pan out or which year I don't know!
Don't you guys ever feel like you are clutching at straws?
No I don't suppose you do. Carry on.
Thanks for your explanation Owmybrainhurtz. Rather complicated but hangs on what is meant by the day of preparation it would seem. Perhaps a Jewish forumite could confirm this?
No I don't suppose you do. Carry on.
Thanks for your explanation Owmybrainhurtz. Rather complicated but hangs on what is meant by the day of preparation it would seem. Perhaps a Jewish forumite could confirm this?
Sep 26, 2016 -- 6:24AM, mobo wrote:
I don't know how many of you have read history in any depth but take a poke at anything 2000 plus years ago if you want to see dodgy vague accounts of ANYTHING that went on. Just saying.
You don't need to go back 2k year ,most of the MSM have trouble telling the truth about what happened yesterday.
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