Rouen Atrocity : 'The Independent' states Islam was the victim

You have to be an apologist or a conspiracy theorist.  The obvious is too obvious.
She should be sacked, and the editor too.

You will all rest in your beds safely when you find out the NSPCC's new guidlines for spotting radicalisation.
I would have thought  MUSLIMS would be the persons to spot!!

In further news - the bishop of birmingham says he has regular meetings with muslim, hindu, sikh etc etc   THE CLUE IS IN THE NAME these other 'religions' don't seem to feature much in the headlines do they?

Anyway - you must all feel safer now  - go on - light a candle - they might all go away eventually.

WHEN YOU HAVE BEEN CONVERTED OR.....................

when lots of normal folk start hating muslims because of these nutters then islam
is the victim too

not that difficult to see

of course they are not the intended victims , but nutters dont think

I think it's more a question of the bizarre prioritisation of the victims here - you know, the actual guy who had his throat slit, the congregation that witnessed it, their religion and the country they are from

.....or the 'religion' of the perpetrators.

Let me see if I've understood you correctly Donny. Atrocities like the ones we've seen in the last 2 weeks, carried out by persons whose religion is Islam, committed in the name of Islam (directed by ISIS) are actually 'Nothing to do with Islam" at all, and Islam is the unwitting innocent victim, just as much as those mowed down in Nice and the Rouen Priest were?

ISLAM is a religion it does not kill anyone...

These atrocities are committed by members of ISIS whose religion is ISLAM.
But it is ISIS who are doing the killing.

I consider this act a crime against humanity myself.

I try not to make it a religious war which I see we are getting into, I acknowledge that.

They kill in the name of that religion

The clues are all there,perpetrators generally named Mohammed and this shouting of Allahu Akhbarr whilst killing.

Islam is barely a religion its more of a cult and a dangerous one at that.

They may kill in the name of religion, but it is still men that do the killing?

If we blame ISLAM we are making it a religious war, so I don't play that game.

If you look at religious wars through history they tend to be unwinnable, I would ignore religion myself.

The whole start of this was never religious anyway, it was about bringing down Saddam Hussein, ISLAM has been dragged into this.

My suggestion fight ISIS rather than ISLAM, that way we have less enemies.

You have your views Wildman.

ISLAM must be a religion, because they believe in a GOD, which defines religion.

The only religion, which may not be a religion is BUDHISM, because they believe in self enlightenment, rather than a GOD.

BUDHA was a man.

The good news is that the 2 attackers were shot dead.

alun2005 muslims are victims because it has everything to do with Islam, not because it has nothing to do with Islam.  If it had nothing to do with Islam they wouldn't be victims.

Personally I can't stand the religion and am fed up of the moaning from Muslims that they are victims.  They should accept it on the chin.  Obviously people are going to feel that way and they should take the majority of the responsibility for the situation, which THEY NEVER DO.

Tom Cruise's religion believes in something akin to Spaceship Warlord nonsense I believe ebul.  I'm sure there are others out there somewhere.

If these atrocities were carried out by fans in the name of a football team then that team, and all of its supporters innocent or guilty, would be severely punished and not allowed to travel or compete until they had got their own house in order (viz. English teams in the 1980s inter alia).

There would be an acceptance by that team's fans of communal responsibility for acts committed in their team's name and endeavours would be made to stamp out the rotten apples who were bringing that team's name into disrepute.

Repeating the nothing to do with Islam mantra is like saying the Bushwackers had nothing to do with Millwall.

I agree clouseau. According to the BBC most of the perpetrators were promising young footballers. So following on I suggest we ban Isis and Islam from competing in Europe for 15 years.

ebulGery
ebulGery 27 Jul 16 13:06 Joined: 08 May 10 | Topic/replies: 20,497 | Blogger: ebulGery's blog
They may kill in the name of religion, but it is still men that do the killing?

Who else? or do you think a made up god could do it?

if islam wants to de- victimise itself it should do more to stop these murders

it shouldnt be too hard for some leaders to come to public view and condemn
these attention seekers



i'm not sure what happened to bin ladens lot but it seems the cover for
nutters is now islamic state

Islam was invented by a man who wanted power and needed to gather people around and tie them to him.  He was a warmonger and an imperialist.
What better way to control people if you could get them to believe in damnation if they didn't follow his rules.

SUBMISSION

"In what can only be described as a cruel irony, the Roman Catholic parish where Islamic terrorists slit the throat of Father Jacques Hamel Tuesday had donated the land on which the local mosque is built."

I think the eruption of Santorini causing the sea to part is responsible mobo.  Moses was an opportunist, and the rest is history.  At least that seems the most plausible explanation

its nothing to do with the religion of peace , nothing to see here

Something strikes me as rather odd about the recent heightened security leading to tailbacks in Kent. The attack in Normandy still happened and the perpetrators apparently needed no assistance from British holidaymakers. Could the resources have been better deployed elsewhere?

Not if the idea is to punish Britain for Brexit Foinavon

The thought had crossed my mind Roger

stable door job

The media are using words like 'jihad', 'extremism', 'Islamist', 'Radicalised' and of course the 'so called IS'.

What they are pains NOT to say is 'Muslim' or 'Islam'.

Whether it's this poor UK lady in Pakistan 'honour killed', FGM, segregation, the obsession with martydom (see Mohammed's comments in the Hadith), terrorism in 50 countries last year, Islam and Muslims are the problem.

Found this fascinating contrast between Islam and Christianity..

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/articles/jesus-muhammad.aspx

For example..

Muslim Legacy                                   Christian Legacy
   
Countries that Muslims want to escape from.     Countries that Muslims want to escape to.

Foinavon  • July 27, 2016 1:39 PM BST 


ebulGery
ebulGery 27 Jul 16 13:06 Joined: 08 May 10 | Topic/replies: 20,497 | Blogger: ebulGery's blog
They may kill in the name of religion, but it is still men that do the killing?

Who else? or do you think a made up god could do it?

What sort of post is that. I have said men do the killing.
Men like killing each other, they just need a justification.
We kill Muslims I notice.

I agree with that, just thought you were trying to sideline the religious aspect which seems to be the prime mover in the case of IS and their suicide guerrillas. Sorry.

When are the left and Western feminists going to stand up for the rights of women in Muslim communities?

"A Welsh schoolgirl was starved, physically abused and kept in a cage during a series of alleged offences by her father who disagreed with her un-Islamic lifestyle, a court heard.

Amina al-Jeffrey, 21, was born in Swansea but moved to Saudia Arabia aged 16 as her father objected to her western lifestyle...

Miss al-Jeffrey was taken to Saudi Arabia because her father disapproved of her “relationships and conduct”,  Henry Setright, QC, representing Miss al-Jeffrey, said.

Over the course of more than four years, the young woman has reportedly been physically abused, deprived of food and water, kept in a cage when her father leaves their home in Jeddah and is not allowed to marry the man of her choice, the court was told.

Mr Justice Holman said that the jurisdiction of the British courts was unclear because al-Jeffrey was now an adult with dual Saudi and UK citizenship. He said: "We have to be careful about asserting the supremacy our cultural standards."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/27/welsh-schoolgirl-was-kept-prisoner-in-a-cage-starved-and-abused/

Mr Justice Holman said that the jurisdiction of the British courts was unclear because al-Jeffrey was now an adult with dual Saudi and UK citizenship. He said: "We have to be careful about asserting the supremacy our cultural standards."

No we don't.

We say 'our Western way is superior. Free will is better than something starting with a sky pixie, interpreted by an idiot and imposed on a gullible mass'

We then listen to the professionally outraged scream 'Racists!' replying 'Sit the fk down, shut the fk up, you cultural relativist fkwits' before high-fiveing each other and going on a victory lap of honour.

Pope Francis said today, it is not a religious war

I believe him, although I have my ideas as to the cause

But it is becoming a religious war I can see that, so I suppose it is that now

I wont accept it


Women in Muslim society, well I hardly approve of the case Roger has put up

But what the Muslims are doing, is constraining women to their evolutionary role that is all. Which the majority of women would do by choice anyway?

As to how far their constraint goes...I see there are issues here, fair enough


In the West we now want to regard women as the same as men????????????????????????????????????

I don't.

I do wonder who is right here, only the future will decide that.

"In the West we now want to regard women as the same as men???????????????????????????????????? I don't".

OMG, youre in big trouble when MD and Annie see that.

We have to separate the treatment of women from a religious interpretation to that of a medieval and backward community that has lagged behind the rest of the world in development of free speech and tolerance.Some areas of Islam have shown modern tolerance and progressive approach but are being demonised by the rabid intolerance and readiness to kill others, and die themselves,of the uneducated rabble who interpret Islam in its extreme fashion.We have to support the modernisers,including women and westernised  muslims, and help them to resist the nutters.Weakness and appeasement by our governemnts is not and has never been the answer.

treetop, there you go again................................................putting forward, reasoned, common sense views, the last time you did that the cooonts twisted your words and slated you, will you never learn!!.

Seriously, fair play to you, although having worked with and lived in/near thousands of 'English Muslims' for over 50 years, I have yet to find truly 'westerised' modernised ones, who don't revert to type at the first questioning of their beliefs. or the marriage arrangements of their offspring.

Muslims are victims as are all brainwashed people.

"westernised  muslims" Our Large Towns seems to be Full of these Types East and West London

Parts of Birmingham 10s of 1000s of them Chaps with Long Beards and Women wearing Masks ,I didnt

realise they were Westernised ..

Or Perhaps you can Explain what a "westernised  muslim" is ?

As far as I am concerned...someone who does not want to kill us for a start

There are obvious problems with the difference in cultures

I would define a westernised muslim in law, a list of do's and dont's

I would be fair, to all.

I do not mind their women wearing masks, or black, as long as it is their own choice.

case,I would venture to suggest,with some hesitation,that muslims born and raised in UK that have not been exposed to radicalism may be classed as westernised although the parents of many are determined to hang onto old fashioned values dating from their own village and national backgrounds. I met many decent lebanese and egyptian and syrian people who were far more tolerant than the nutters prevailing today. The BBC,Guardianistas and our media have made the idiotic mistake of promoting the intolerant demagogues rather than the more liberalised muslims as the face of Islam suggesting their cultural extremes represent a good thing and that has helped to indoctrinate their young people with the internet of course.Even the archbishops have done that but may soon be changing their views now they are getting pulled into thefront line that the working classes have begun to witness.

treetop, do not dismiss the preachers in the mosques, it's not just parents that hold on to 'old values' if you know a Muslim who attends a mosque the you do not know a westernised one. IMO.

I can't disagree much foxy,the preachers were sent by Saudi to spread the word and reinforce Islam in the 90's and our stupid academics supported their right to free speech of hatred and damnation of others,daft ?

We say 'our Western way is superior. Free will is better than something starting with a sky pixie, interpreted by an idiot and imposed on a gullible mass'

We then listen to the professionally outraged scream 'Racists!' replying 'Sit the fk down, shut the fk up, you cultural relativist fkwits' before high-fiveing each other and going on a victory lap of honour.

I do like Roger's approach. Common sense, robust and bullseye. I do however disagree with the 'high five ing' which seemed to begin when the West Indies had those naughty fast bowlers.

A firm handshake will suffice.

What the hell was I thinking??!

Did Tony Lock go and frotter wildly with Jim Laker after the latter took the 19th wicket against the Aussies at Old Trafford in 1956?

No he did not!

High-fiving indeed. I must have been out of my mind.

Thanks for straightening everyone out on this one, Injera

A firm and SEMI-EMBARRASSED handshake would be more preferable still, as it reflects the modesty that should be observed, even when taking 19 wickets in a match.

We'll have none of this showy and self-aggrandising over-celebration thank you.

Indeed - whilst wearing Brylcreem.....none of this wax / clay muck they go in for nowadays