Chit Chat
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Very controversial idea and Trump got a lot of flak for saying it.Obviously I'm not saying family members should be killed, but, would the Nice attacker (who sent 84,000 to his family before the attack) have been less likely to do it had he thought his family members might be prosectuted or deported?
Seems to have been the strategy that the Russians used in Chechnya.
From the New York times...
In the Russian view, the family is the thread that needs to be pulled to unravel the terrorist group.
“He should understand his relatives will be treated as accomplices,” Kirill V. Kabanov, a member of President Vladimir V. Putin’s human rights council, said of a potential suicide attacker.
“When a person leaves to become a terrorist, he can kill hundreds of innocents,” he said. “Those are the morals we are talking about. We should understand, the relatives must fight this first. If the relative, before the fact, reported it, he is not guilty. If he did not, he is guilty.”
In Chechnya and neighboring Dagestan, they routinely burn or demolish the houses of people suspected of being insurgents or terrorists. Most strikingly, whole extended families are rounded up in high-profile cases, and are often held until the militant either gives up or is killed.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/30/world/europe/russia-chechnya-caucasus-terrorists-families.html?_r=1
Seems to have been the strategy that the Russians used in Chechnya.
From the New York times...
In the Russian view, the family is the thread that needs to be pulled to unravel the terrorist group.
“He should understand his relatives will be treated as accomplices,” Kirill V. Kabanov, a member of President Vladimir V. Putin’s human rights council, said of a potential suicide attacker.
“When a person leaves to become a terrorist, he can kill hundreds of innocents,” he said. “Those are the morals we are talking about. We should understand, the relatives must fight this first. If the relative, before the fact, reported it, he is not guilty. If he did not, he is guilty.”
In Chechnya and neighboring Dagestan, they routinely burn or demolish the houses of people suspected of being insurgents or terrorists. Most strikingly, whole extended families are rounded up in high-profile cases, and are often held until the militant either gives up or is killed.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/30/world/europe/russia-chechnya-caucasus-terrorists-families.html?_r=1
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I cannot really agree with this......we are punishing innocent people.
Still desperate times sometimes call for desperate measures. |
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I can see the logic, if terrorists think their own family will suffer as a result of their actions, it may deter them.
Doubt it will work with ISIS they so extreme, they may think it is worth the sacrifice. |
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It may be unpalatable but would pressure terrorists to think again and families to refrain from covering them up and giving those contemplating such acts a reason to stop and think.I would favour deportation of all immediate wives/ssiblings and children.They would all be watching their social media to report any intolerance.
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The Germans would use something like this in WWII. In retaliation for an attack from the resistance,
they would shoot 50 innocent people. It is not as bad, but you are heading in this direction. |
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treetop?????????????????????????
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I see your logic as I have said.....but this is last resort stuff????????????????
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Where would you deport them to, if they were citizens of a country, ie born the country in it.
People will make their own decisions on this. |
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It may well come to that ebul, we are in the very early days of a terror campaign,the likes of which we find difficult to comprehend. My suggestion may well be seen as too weak by many over the next decade.
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Sick and vile idea that makes you no better than the terrorist
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I hope what you say does not come to pass treetop, but these are troubled times...
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I well understand clyde,it is unpalatable at present but the outcry that will come may well demand such unpalatable measures,I sincerely hope not though. Just surmising what may come to pass.
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I don't know what the solution is. The problem is with the Islamic faith, but it's so deeply engrained and so incompatible with free will and acceptance. Somehow you have to break that cycle of fear and control that is perpetuated through generation after generation. It's this intolerance, incompatibility with freedom of expression and the rise of social media that is behind the terrorism. A culture of violence is what happens when control through intimidation doesn't work. Last week a young and vibrant Pakistani Muslim model, Qandeel Baloch) who embraced social media and her sexuality was murdered by her brother (for embracing social media and her sexuality) This is what you are up against.
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"Waseem Azeem, who was accompanied by police, confessed in a news conference on Saturday to drugging and strangling his sister, 26-year-old Qandeel Baloch. He said that through her risque videos and social media posts "she brought dishonour to the Baloch name," the local newspaper Dawn reported.
Baloch died Friday when one of her six brothers strangled her to death as she slept in the family’s home in the province of Punjab, police said. " The terrorism is the hard core nutters, but what underpins it is stuff like that above. For every Qandeel Baloch, there will be a 100 like her who are too scared to express themselves and to reach out across the religious divide. Put in their place by the fear of intimidation that is the basis for the Islamic faith |
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Baloch had a large following of more than 700,000 people on her official Facebook page. She posted recently she was “trying to change the typical orthodox mindset of people who don’t wanna come out of their shells of false beliefs and old practices.”
Brave girl. Really she deserves a thread of her own. |
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I can see we may adopt this, although I oppose it in principle.
The problem may be the Islamic faith, but this is not going to change. In fact there is no guarantee they are going to lose. My approach is can we try to come to some sort of compromise and understanding here. This is solely on the grounds that I do not see anybody backing down at present. My concern is, can we stop the killing and maiming of human beings, as a start. Changing attitudes, cultures, is a very long job. For this we are going to need patience. |
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My bag is animal cruelty, but trying to reduce this is not something that can be done by war.
It is a very slow job of persuasion. We have to accept that this is the best way for a lot of things. |
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when your own family is touched by it you will all be singing a different tune about the whole muslim issue
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I accept that fully Mobo, in fact I believe yours may have, for which I am very sad for you.
But mine have not been. Sometimes we need thought, not just emotion. I am trying to put thought back on the agenda. But yes I do understand the emotions, we are all human. I am trying not to take sides. |
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you have to look beyond religion and politics, unfortunately its not that simple.
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If Islam had a prominent leadership that was accepted we could begin to talk about such things but renegade Imams keep popping up from nowhere controlling the agenda across Islam and their rabid intolerance understandably makes decent muslims scared for their lives. That young girl from Pakistan showed incredible courage to strike out but it was no more than many europeans showed during the 15th and 16th centuries.I despair about religious brainwashing.
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3632897/Parents-Jihadi-Jack-appear-court-charged-terrorism-offences.html
how far away from family internment are we ... |
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Surely a lot of the terrorists get their ideas and beliefs from their family.
Abase Hussen all over the news when his young daughters ran off to Syria. Sympathy all over the press, even appeared in Parliament saying it was the polices fault etc etc. Everyone else was to blame, don't know where they got these ideas from etc. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31575908 Then it transpires http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3027035/Father-runaway-jihadi-schoolgirl-filmed-burning-flag-protest-admits-attending-says-took-daughter-demonstration-just-13.html He took his daughter at 13 to a hate preachers rally. And was also photographed in attending other Extremist rallies. These famalies are not always "innocents" |
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Trump is an idiot.
Americans are hypocrital as they have played out a proxy war in Syria for 5 years which has brought about IS. There has been over 200k people killed including countless innocent civilians. Millions are now refugees without a place to call home. |
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*hypocritical
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cherie bliar quaking in her boots
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dont think were that many years off army checkpoints surrounding moslem areas
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treetop • July 21, 2016 8:00 PM BST
If Islam had a prominent leadership that was accepted we could begin to talk about such things The problem there is treetop, is we keep knocking them over, Saddam, Gadhafi the attempted overthrow of Assad It does make any sensible communication rather difficult. |
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gery is right - we have done several of these ha ha and now want to do in Assad. You think they would learn.
However - it is good for the arms industry particularly in the US. It is also good to have bogey men to justify expenditure on more and more weapons. Putin bad US good etc. The Berlin wall coming down and the cold war getting warm were bad days for the industry. But lets find lots of battles to fight and we can keep the profits up. |