Chit Chat
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18 Jul 16
21:02
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04 Jul 15
leopard watching something else
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Replies: 60
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Recording the Brian Cox prog....
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1.5 million shells before the actual battle
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Our intelligence services were not very intelligent.....failure of the public school system.
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Gonna rec this....got to do some work related emails
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indeed.
no matter how many serious programmes i see about this i cant get away from blackadder with a quote along the lines 'oh well another 60 thousand men have to die to get haigh's drinks cabinet three feet closer to paris' or something similar. one of my english teachers lovced first world war poetry, many of the writers died in battle. madness. |
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Rockstar early death syndrome.....they can't make a fool of themselves later.
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didnt expect that from you leopard.
what would each of us write, knowing some upper class **** was sending us to mcertain death? |
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when i see old black and white film i think 'how many of these men survived?'
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Weren't the poets Upper middle class?
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It doesn't matter how many ww1 docs I watch I still struggle to suppress my anger and sadness that so many fine men, including members of my family were sent over the top to walk straight into the machine guns.
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Why didn't they attack round the line ....up the coast?
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leopard thats unlike you, i dont care what class they were, they were were sent to death by a bunch of imbeciles.
walking into machine gun fire, the whole thing just seems so stupid. |
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The elites lead those men to their death....the poets were from the elites I would reckon.
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No working man had time to mess about with word
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words
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surely most of the elite were behind lines giving orders, leaving the lower classes to be slaughtered?
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surely plenty of time, probably too much, to be left with time to be left thinking of certain death?
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They had their officers amongst the men.....who would prevent them turning and running from the obvious carnage.
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dont you like their prose leopard, i thought you would?
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allied brutality? not surprising really, war brings out the worst in humans.
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underestimation of medical requirements and as a result a countless number died who may have been saved.
i cant believe its only me and you discussing this leo. |
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I have heard snippets but never been a big fan of poetry......our poetry are the lyrics contemporary music.
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What age are you.....I'm guessing older than my 57....may have a bearing
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im no big fan of poetry either but in my first year at big school we had a teacher who loved france and what had gone on in there abouts. it is really moving to hear peoms written by men who died not long after they wrote their stuff.
its all about mans inhumanity to man, we never seem to learn. |
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leo i feel suicidal now old boy, partly tinged with laughter.
i'm 47 born in this country but with irish parents so no lover of nationalism but feel lucky to live in this country. born in kent and fortunate to have been to grammar school but feel sorry for those who never made it to decent schools. never been a great consumer or worried about careers and finance or keeping up with the jones. |
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My grandparents were miners in the North-East so do not have a direct connection to the slaughter
They both died early of Pneumoconiosis though. I don't like to dwell on the negative ...it is not good for your soul......always look on the bright side of life ! |
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Just thought you may be older as you are interested in WWI
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that was a very good programme -
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sorry leo, maybe superficial interest as it just seems so stupid to walk at machine guns. economics is my thing more than history. that poetry just seems so touching when you know the authors were often killed not long after writing their stuff.
i want to be the nosey one now  where did you grow up and where's your education from? |
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Near Cheltenham......and near Cheltenham
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do you still live there as well? a lovely part of the country imo and you must prefer nh to the flat?
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Bloody hell another "I learned my ww1 history from blackadder" fred
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I lived there for 28 years.....and have now lived in Ealing for 25 years....and I prefer NH to the flat
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i didnt say that at all. what i said is it raises a very strong point which you havent rebuffed.
ww1 poetry is very moving imo. |
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Some points missing about the "walkign into machine guns" is firstly they were weighed down heavily with kit (weapon, helmet, ammo, grenades, extra ammo) etc which I believe came to about 30kg. I'd like to see how fast you'd run over mud in boots carrying 30kg and what state you'd be in after 50 yards. Secondly they also used creeping barrages so the point was to move at a defined pace behind it as if you overshot it you'd be hit by your own shells. Thirdly re the "class" thing, from what I've read the middle/upper classes actually took higher casualties than the enlisted men as officers (apart from the Darling's of the world) tended to lead attacks and were targeted first. And unfortunately AFAIK stood out as they had different uniform, carried revolvers etc. For example: 5,660 from Eton went to war, 1,157 were killed, that's more than 20%.
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^^^ so it was a complete waste of time then???
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I think they initially thought it would work. I don't think the generals were deliberately trying to kill their own men. Otherwise why fire 1.5 million shells first. Apparently it was such an incredible barrage the men thought it would work. But they learned from their mistakes and changed tactics, especially when they got and worked out how to use tanks etc.
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i'm no historian but it seems to me it took them a long time to learn from their mistakes?
leo, how the hell did you end up in ealing? |
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Re why didn't they go around they stretched from switzerland to the sea, there was no "going round" as such.
The british focus mentally on that area the british covered around Belgium which was only a fraction of it, the French were facing off with and fighting the Germans all the way down the east of their country. |