Russian athletes banned from Olympics - pot calling the kettle black.

Hard to disagree with any of that. Keep politics out of sport starting with Coe, a shameless individual.

what lol - the Russians were given fair warning to clean up their act.  Since that warning they have just carried on as before. 

Look at Russia's reaction to their thugs in the Euros.  Utter disgrace, every other country would be apologising to France, they are hauling in the ambassador to protect.

*protest

The use of performance enhancing drugs seems endemic in the Russian athletics system though.

Yes there are drugs cheats everywhere, plenty of whom have been caught, but cheating on the Russian-level industrial scale is unheard of in modern times (although there was plenty of suspicion of East German athletes in the Eastern Bloc days)

All the more reason why the clean ones, and we must know who they are, are allowed to compete.

pantsonfire - the russians were given every chance.  Since the scandal last year they knew they were on probation but still carried on exactly the same way as before, with security services threatening drug testers, athletes refusing to be tested etc etc.  How do you know there are any "clean ones".

The IOC are punishing the federation not individual athletes.

If there are any clean ones they are collateral damage I'm afraid

At last I thought they'd bottle it.

This will only fuel the Russian paranoia that everyone is against them and they'll feel the need to hit back somehow.

according to the telegraph individual athletes might be able to appeal if they have been regularly tested outside Russia.

I am assuming that there are clean athletes among the Russian teams. If there weren't any at all then I am sure we would have been told about it. If any athletes have been given a clean bill of health then they should be allowed to compete particularly as there will be athletes competing who have been proved drug cheats in the past. Doesn't your daughter compete roger? Would you be happy to see her as collateral damage should the GB teams become caught up in a drugs scandal?

British athletes wouldn't dream of cheating POF.

I would like to think that your tongue is firmly in your cheek. Otherwise I might have had to point out the 59 British spotsmen and women banned by WADA in the last 6 years.

whatever, but I'm fairly certain the British police wouldn't threaten drug testers.

I was being facetious, of course, but I genuinely had no idea that som many had fallen foul of the authorities.

What percentage of cheats get caught iyo? I'd be astonished if they caught even a quarter of them.

The percentage of cheats that gets caught is very, very low when it's the state organising the doping and not attempting to catch anyone, as is the case with Russia

I really wouldn't have a clue. Innocent until found guilty is my stance but ban the cheats and let the clean ones take part. I don't see that as unreasonable at all. I'd also rule that missing testing is unacceptable and  a second missed test implies guilt and would also result in a ban.

How do you know who is clean if the authorities in that country are not conducting testing to an acceptable standard ?

I had assumed that all testing of international standard athletes was done independently. Is this not the case? Do British testers test British athletes? Jamaicans test Jamaicans, Kenyans test Kenyans etc. If so then I would have little faith in any countries testing.

No, it's not independent - or wasn't last time I looked. I think that was something WADA recommended to introduce and Coe/IAAF wants ...

.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/mar/16/lord-coe-iaaf-introduce-independent-drug-testing

Now I'm confused. The Russian testers test the Russian athletes but cover up the doping yet dozens have been caught out? Who is conducting and reporting the failed tests?

The recent round of test and re-tests have been part of the WADA investigation. Normally, out of competition testing is carried out by the local authorities. I'm sure you can read up on the WADA investigations online. Russia is not the only federation on the watchlist.

Drug use is prevalent across most sports.

I don't see any difference between someone sleeping in a very expensive altitude tent and someone taking a pill that does exactly the same thing.

Read any book by a cyclist about doping in the 90s. Either you doped and earned a living or you went back to a 9-5 job

The use of performance enhancing drugs seems endemic in the Russian athletics system though.

Its endemic in every system

Racing Queen

I'm sorry but it absolutely is not.

Yes there are British drug cheats as the evidence and convictions prove and to say there will never be any more is daft. But this is a long way from the state-sponsored and endorsed systemic approach to doping that appears to have been the Russian's approach in Athletics and, to put the cat among the pigeons, I strongly suspect in other sports too.

pantsonfire
     17 Jun 16 16:06   

I am assuming that there are clean athletes among the Russian teams. If there weren't any at all then I am sure we would have been told about it. If any athletes have been given a clean bill of health then they should be allowed to compete particularly as there will be athletes competing who have been proved drug cheats in the past. Doesn't your daughter compete roger? Would you be happy to see her as collateral damage should the GB teams become caught up in a drugs scandal? 


A fair question, which I can only answer by saying that as certain as I can be of anything, I believe British Rowing to be completely clean re PED's.

By the way, the biggest issue facing the IOC and which athletes are being warned about isn't drugs, it's betting.

zorro is f******* stupid [ flipping]

state sponsored doping by Russia ... which other country has done that ?

may not be state sponsored but its endemic in every country and run on a professional basis

I believe British Rowing to be completely clean re PED's.

sure everyones clean....no drugs in any sport

Racing queen

The fact you can write has been duly noted.

The jury is out on whether you can read however.

Roger, when you say you believer British rowing is clean, what is this belief based on ?

This is just part of the us tactic of discrediting russia.ITS ABOUT SNOWDEN 40% of the files were encrypted,think about how explosive the unencrypted stuff was,russia has now cracked the codes.

scandanavian_haven
Joined: 27 May 11
Replies: 4210
    17 Jun 16 20:10

Roger, when you say you believer British rowing is clean, what is this belief based on ?

Witnessing an athlete drugs tested at 06.00hrs on Boxing Day morning

Knowing the lengths athletes go to - such as discarding bottles of water that have been opened and therefore run the risk of being spiked - when they come in from an outing / race.

Knowing the self-policing and pressure that crews put on individual members (it's like the relay in athletics; if one gets done, the whole team gets slung out) to adhere to PED guidelines

Knowing many of the athletes and coaches involved in the set up and the honesty and ethical stance I believe they have

Knowing the rigour of the testing procedures (an athlete who had to wait 6 hours before they were re-hydrated enough to give a sample because they refused to so against point 2 above) athletes go through.

Well that was a pretty succinct answer, thanks.

I agree with zorro here, I think part of this is politically motivated

However it has to be said Russia does not have a good record

I am not sure banning Russia from Olympics is the answer

The Olympics has always been politically motivated anyway

another politically motivated nutter

zorro and ebulgery  make good bedmates.

Jun 17, 2016 -- 8:45PM, gooroo wrote:

This is just part of the us tactic of discrediting russia.ITS ABOUT SNOWDEN 40% of the files were encrypted,think about how explosive the unencrypted stuff was,russia has now cracked the codes.

ha ha  Everything Russia says is for local consumption - foreigners aren't actually meant to believe it

Witnessing an athlete drugs tested at 06.00hrs on Boxing Day morning

Knowing the lengths athletes go to - such as discarding bottles of water that have been opened and therefore run the risk of being spiked - when they come in from an outing / race.

Knowing the self-policing and pressure that crews put on individual members (it's like the relay in athletics; if one gets done, the whole team gets slung out) to adhere to PED guidelines

Knowing many of the athletes and coaches involved in the set up and the honesty and ethical stance I believe they have

Knowing the rigour of the testing procedures (an athlete who had to wait 6 hours before they were re-hydrated enough to give a sample because they refused to so against point 2 above) athletes go through.


Not one of those "Points/soundbytes" prove anything. The history of doping shows it has touched every sport.
I wouldn't judge anyone who chooses to dope. In alot of arenas you either do it or retire.

Racing Queen

I'm sorry but it absolutely is not.

Yes there are British drug cheats as the evidence and convictions prove and to say there will never be any more is daft. But this is a long way from the state-sponsored and endorsed systemic approach to doping that appears to have been the Russian's approach in Athletics and, to put the cat among the pigeons, I strongly suspect in other sports too.

Well there was just a 3 year court case in Spain in order for WADA to even get over 200 bloodbags suspected of being doped blood from Spanish athletes because the Spanish Judiciary ordered them to be destroyed instead of handed over to be tested by them.

He didn't say it did prove anything, but he used the word 'belief'....it would be different if he insisted the use of peds wasn't in use in rowing.

Any endurance based sport especially is always bound to come under suspicion, I can understand also that British rowing and Cycling is looked upon with added interest given how much Britain excels at them in recent years.

Drugs cheats play a strange game because surely it must weigh on their mind that even if they don't get caught initially, they can be caught years later as we have seen with the retesting of samples from the Beijing games 8 years ago in 2008, don't know how athletes who are cheating can have that added weight on their mind, they really must be desperate.

They weren't made to 'prove' anything (although they did inadvertently underline your inability to read anything and then make a cogent point).

They were an answer to Scandinavian havens question re my belief that British Rowing at least is clean......as opposed to unsubstantiated mudslinging

curious-cat  • June 17, 2016 10:31 PM BST 
another politically motivated nutter
zorro and ebulgery  make good bedmates.

Not really, how do you know anything you hear is true?

I did admit Russia did not have a good record

To go from there to accuse them of state sponsored doping is a bit of a leap??????????????????????

I believe what I choose..

right or wrong

Seb Coe the purest of the pure. said they was bad men. i believe Seb always.