Chit Chat
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10 Apr 16
20:15
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Date Joined:
29 Sep 10
Listening to ch4 news about Tax avoidance and Tax evasion.
Is society against people who make money? was a question.
The rich and their lawyers say we just follow the tax rules. We pay our taxes.
tax in the seventies was really high at 85-95 percent for rich people - ABBA famously suffered. Lobbyists and political parties have changed that rate to 40-50 percent? They've also changed the tax rules enormously. This favours manipulation.
my point is they've reduced the tax by half and still they are wriggling in and out of tax havens. In America they've talked about a ten percent flat rate? Big companies want to avoid tax completely and want to just make donations like Google and Apple.
you dont need complicated tax rules -
if you make as an individual...
under £15,000 - zero
between £15,000 - 25,000 - tax 20 percent
between £25,000 - 50,000 - tax 33 percent
between 50,000 - 100,000 - tax 40 percent
between 100,000 - 250,000 - tax 50 percent
between 250,000 - 1,000,000 - tax 60 percent
over a million - tax first million at sixty percent then anything over 75 percent.
for corporations like google - ask what was your profits within this country?
okay - tax that amount. At similar rates above
simple tax code - anyone who decides they dont want to pay - ask why.
Is society against people who make money? was a question.
The rich and their lawyers say we just follow the tax rules. We pay our taxes.
tax in the seventies was really high at 85-95 percent for rich people - ABBA famously suffered. Lobbyists and political parties have changed that rate to 40-50 percent? They've also changed the tax rules enormously. This favours manipulation.
my point is they've reduced the tax by half and still they are wriggling in and out of tax havens. In America they've talked about a ten percent flat rate? Big companies want to avoid tax completely and want to just make donations like Google and Apple.
you dont need complicated tax rules -
if you make as an individual...
under £15,000 - zero
between £15,000 - 25,000 - tax 20 percent
between £25,000 - 50,000 - tax 33 percent
between 50,000 - 100,000 - tax 40 percent
between 100,000 - 250,000 - tax 50 percent
between 250,000 - 1,000,000 - tax 60 percent
over a million - tax first million at sixty percent then anything over 75 percent.
for corporations like google - ask what was your profits within this country?
okay - tax that amount. At similar rates above
simple tax code - anyone who decides they dont want to pay - ask why.
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Tax on earnings from non working activities 90% tax on working activities 30%...
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does that include pensioners.. unemployed or is it living off interest if you are a billionaire?
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Does that include profit from Betfair?
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what profits - thought we was supposed to throw it away?
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in the days of 80%of high tax rate the rich said cut it too 40% etc and they will all pay their tax and not live abroad for 6 months etc.
The rate is lowered and they use offshore accounts to avoid tax. They just pay what and when they want. But think of all those billions tied up in offshore accounts that could be in circulation helping everyone. The average PAYE tax payer keeps the country afloat, not the millionaires/billionaires as they make out. |
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I can see why they had the French revolution......perhaps we need one here
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famous saying - a kept dollar is a stinking fish.
when money doesn't circulate it's like your leg has went to sleep. the money could be used to buy a big house, a big house needs work done on it. servants. deliveries to it. energy supply to it. on and on - but a number in an account does nothing for the rest of us. sooner or later digital cash will be enforced and paper money will vanish. |
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The whole point of any off shore tax avoidance scheme is to keep money off a tax return. So tax returns don't show tax avoidance, they are irrelevant if you are fiddling.
These tax returns Dodgy Dave is showing are only a summary of his tax paid not a full statement. Dave and his rich mates should be asked to publish any hidden assets ! Last week he gave about 4 or 5 different explanations in 4 or 5 days, if he had nothing to hide why didn't he come clean straight away. And now trying to defuse it all by publishing his tax returns. Some politicians might be feeling a bit uncomfortable if they are forced to publish tax returns. |
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I concur entirely with that assessment. HD2
It's been an odd week where the operations of political subterfuge has started to unravel at the seems. The series of tailored responses have in effect treated the public whom they should be serving with utter contempt. I wasn't particularly interested in this story until the point of releasing the summary because inevitably he will now have to release his actual return and that could be very interesting if there are parts that don't tally with the summary....that will be the absolute death of his political career IMO. At each stage him and his team have attempted to show just as little leg as possible to stop the dogs but as Shakespeare said; the truth is sharper than the sword. The summary contained a version of events that the mother was 'making a more fair alteration' by gifting 200k. Well I'm sorry but that isn't how the summary reads. It suggests that even without that gift he has around 800k in assets that are declared.....so what was the rush to attain that extra money from his father's will? His house is owned and he's provided with an extra one so its not like he's scrabbling around for cash to make a purchase. He could have waited for that money upon his mother's death....but then there would have been tax to pay. Which brings us back to the subterfuge. |
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We are now in a state of transition which could very well end up with all members of parliament having to table returns each year.
This to me seems fair, the political system is rank and has so many dark corners that destabilise the very intent of what it is there for, democracy is undermined continually and MPs interests arnt properly accounted for. They absolutely should IMO be forced to act in accordance of their role, that is about serving their constituents not their own interests. |
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Governments tend to turn a blind eye to tax avoidance amongst companies because it allows companies to expand and create jobs with the money instead of giving it to the government.
They certainly don't want to kill the goose that lays the golden egg in this respect. If they tax companies to the hilt, where are the new jobs coming from? Multinational companies simply endeavour to make their profits in the country that charges the least in tax. They do this by shifting their expenses to the country that charges the most in tax, to reduce their tax liabilities there. Nevertheless by shifting their expenses like administration to a certain country, they are boosting that countries economy. So if that country loses out on tax revenue from the firm, they are still benefitting hugely from that company's tax avoidance measures in other ways. |
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This is true crippen but like I've said many times on here enterprise doesn't employ people for the good of the community, and however long you trace back the length of wool there's always funding from the state that opened up the opportunities for the private sector in the first place.....who then use any and all means to strip as much away before having to pay anything back to the state.
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That is why when politicians talk about clamping down on companies avoiding tax it's all hot air.
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Private off shore accounts are common amongst the rich.
Nevertheless if and when the money comes home it still has to be accounted for and is subject to tax. |
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Legal Tax Avoidance is not to everyone's taste.
Still, I'm sure we will ALL agree that one very good thing about the Exchequer NOT having these 'avoided' receipts in the coffers is that our Government can not spend such money on ridiculous 'projects' such as these : 'Tell Mama' (erm, why not just 'Tell The Police'?) . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tell_MAMA The 'Prevent' (de-radicalisation strategy) . http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/mar/09/anti-radicalisation-prevent-strategy-a-toxic-brand and thank Allah himself that no more tax will be squandered on this national embarrassment . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_Company |
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Tax returns are what they declare. It's what's not declared we want to know about !
Cameron has been very slippery about this all last week, utterly discredited himself ! As the Americans would say, doesn't pass the smell test. |
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enterprise doesn't employ people for the good of the community
I agree completely, enterprise won't create anything if it isn't worth their while. That's why any meaningful tightening of the company tax laws isn't going to happen under any government that understands that. |
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Cameron has been very slippery about this all last week,
some no 10 twerp said the reason he wasnt forth coming about his avoidance was that journalists didnt ask the right questions earlier  |
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Of course the tax rates mentioned at the top of the thread would raise less than they do now but I guess this is isnt about raising money just persecuting the rich.
A sensible tax policy should be designed to maximimise revenues. Its hilarious that people think the rich dont pay tax. True some dodge/avoid/evade but some on here seem oblvious to the fact that 28% of all income tax is paid by the top 1%. |
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Its all a load of bollox, tax returns are not going to show money moved to and from tax havens and Labour giving an empty promise of cracking down on tax havens if they were in power makes it all even more comical.
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not sure if they clapped down on it but you used to be able to get debit card from an offshore bank and use in uk, so not even money to and from shows up a uk bank/hmrc etc
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nice to see gideon gets nearly 50 grand in dividends last year off his fathers company that hasnt earned enough profit in 8 consecutive years to pay corporation tax
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Jeeza speaking up for the poor ,makes you want to vomit ,the man has copped over 3m wages from the public purse ,lives in a 650k house ,knows feck all about being poor ,just another gravy trainer .
"speaking up for the poor" has paid handsomely ,tough work but someone has to do it .... |
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as for a fair tax what number between 50% and zero did jimmy carr ,gary barlow etc decide was a fair amount of tax to pay,1 to 3% LOL
saw that celebrity money expert on tv yesterday who said he was proud to pay his share of tax and payed a 7 figure sum last year |
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same as apple, google, facebook, zero is what they want
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