What happened after Jesus was born ... the lost years?

breadnbutter, destroyed the nanny.

Everything in the known Universe is in a state of becoming

Becoming what?
The money-lenders are back, that's all he needs to know.

Becoming what? what a great fred this is.

From wiki...In philosophy, the concept of becoming originated in eastern ancient Greece with the philosopher Heraclitus of Hephesus, who in the sixth century BCE, said that nothing in this world is constant except change and becoming. His theory stands in direct contrast to Parmenides, another Greek philosopher, but from the italic Magna Grecia, who believed that the ontic changes or "becoming" we perceive with our senses is deceptive, and that there is a pure perfect and eternal being behind nature, which is the ultimate truth. In philosophy, the word "becoming" concerns a specific ontological concept which should not be confused with process philosophy as a whole or with the related study of process theology.

It's all Greek to me.

Jesus was a junior pro at Bethlehem Golf Club

Them's big words boxing

Only another 4.22 light years to Proxima Centauri.

away games the worst

Hello atheists.

bigH • December 22, 2015 10:00 PM GMT
Jesus was a junior pro at Bethlehem Golf Club

You liar, he was the fckin green keeper

Hello aasbf. Tell us, why did god need to create all that space when he put us on a speck of dust? Bit of overkill don't you think?

fckin spot on Foinavon.

I think he's consulting a higher authority regarding the correct response.

Foinavon

Foinavon
22 Dec 15 23:12
Joined: 11 Oct 00
| Topic/replies: 3,683 | Blogger: Foinavon's blog
Hello aasbf. Tell us, why did god need to create all that space when he put us on a speck of dust? Bit of overkill don't you think?


What would you want the surrounding area to look like?

The universe is actually a test track for the Jesus spaceship, providing vast open spaces so that he could really open her up in warp mode. That's what I think although I couldn't possibly know for sure. Don't think I'm making it up as I go along though.

Well the surrounding area looks like a dome covering the Earth with tiny holes in it so that god's light can shine through. That's what they thought for much of time and the dome wouldn't take up all that much space. In fact he could comfortably make it in a day or two.
A 13 billion light year universe is a different proposition, take a bit longer to fettle I would think.

The tiny insignificance of Earth in the universe has been known for centuries yet no one thought it had any bearing on the religious question.

Universal knowledge is everlasting, they just don't understand Foinavon,. but then again why would they

I don't believe in religion btw.

Didn't they? You surprise me. Anyone who expressed an unconventional point of view risked horrendous retribution so not many were of a mind to speak out.

aasbff, why the fck would you.

That's a relief, I can go to bed now

Oh good. Bring me up some choccy biccies will ya babe.

Foinaven, happy Christmas mate.

aasbff your username  says it all, no imagination!!!!

The universe had to be vast, and the earth a small speck of dust. This is inevitable because it is important that we cannot see the edge of time and space...if we could we would know everything, there has to be an edge of uncertainty or we would not be human.

Think the religious need to go back and work on their story regarding our galaxy before they make guesses about the universe.

I must admit the thought of the son of God (or God himself to some) learning a trade is amusing.
I wonder if he was ever sent to the local market to buy a longstand or skirting board ladder as an apprentice?

A happy Christmas to you too Foxy

lfc1971
lfc1971 23 Dec 15 00:06 Joined: 06 Nov 11 | Topic/replies: 5,953 | Blogger: lfc1971's blog
The universe had to be vast, and the earth a small speck of dust. This is inevitable because it is important that we cannot see the edge of time and space...if we could we would know everything, there has to be an edge of uncertainty or we would not be human

Are you making it up as you go along?
The earlier dome assertion by the Church would work too as we could never know what was outside of it.They would tell us that's where god resides in heaven looking down on us.

^^^ upside down thinking.

your statement that it is important that we cannot see the edge of time and space presupposes an outside entity who makes that judgement.

Why should we not be able to know everything? Our knowledge of the universe increases every day. Again you are invoking an external judge making decisions about what we can and cannot know.

That's upside down thinking to me. You are claiming to know things you cannot possibly know.

Jesus
Filling in the blanks.

Every year Jesus’ parents went to Jerusalem for the Festival of the Passover.
When he was twelve years old, they went up to the festival, according to the custom.
When they did not find him, they went back to Jerusalem to look for him.
After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions.

are there any irish atheists??

Foinavon

Earlier you said that because the earth was a tiny speck of dust in a vast universe that this was a bit of overkill on Gods part, I was merely looking at it from a different point of view....the earth had to be a tiny speck and the universe vast....this is the only possible way and means the likelihood of there being a God is greater not less because it is this way, if it wasn`t this way we could not be human and ergo it had to be this way.

aasbff

isthat Diane Abbot ?

Capt_F,

Yes it is, she's a lovely woman. Looks, intelligence and a  great body, what more could you want?

sectioning

I don't think it increases the likelihood that there is a god lfc1971, just makes it harder to prove or disprove.

Capt__F

Capt__F
23 Dec 15 16:05
Joined: 10 Jun 08
| Topic/replies: 10,801 | Blogger: Capt__F's blog
sectioning

Is that me or Diane?

exactly Foinavon. Now the other piece of upside down thinking is when people say because the universe is so vast there must be other lifeforms out there somewhere....wrong!  It means there is almost certainly no other life anywhere in the universe, the sheer size of the universe tends towards there being nothing rather than the reverse.

Can't agree with that. The bigger the universe in terms of number of stars with planets increases the chance of there being more environments where life can develop. The chances of life having developed beyond self replicating molecules or single cell life forms is much lower than the chances of those forms existing but not out of the question.

Foinavon the problem with that theory is that it is impossible for life to exist anywhere in the universe...including earth.

Oi, oi, oi ... you can stop this philosophical stuff about specks of dust and universes.

Just answer the question ... what did Jesus do in the lost years and why didn't the Simon Cowell of the day sign him up as a child star?

Anybody'd think it was Christmas with all this chit chat on the meaning of life, FFS

BTW, Happy Christmas

I don't see how you come to that conclusion. The universe is so vast that it wouldn't be surprising if there were many places where life exists, has existed or will exist in the future. I'm hoping that life will be found elsewhere in the solar system as it will greatly increase the probability that it is very widespread in the universe.

That's it from me for today as the xmas madness has started.
Hell in a handcart.

Happy Xmas mememe, good question you ask.

Thanks Foinavon,

You're a good egg really

"Now the other piece of upside down thinking is when people say because the universe is so vast there must be other lifeforms out there somewhere....wrong!  It means there is almost certainly no other life anywhere in the universe, the sheer size of the universe tends towards there being nothing rather than the reverse."

This is a troll surely? Nobody could possibly think that?

bigH 22 Dec 15 22:00 Joined: 04 Apr 03 | Topic/replies: 5,072 | Blogger: bigH's blog
Jesus was a junior pro at Bethlehem Golf Club

All sitting around at the last supper, half a glass of wine that tastes like vinegar and a p0xy piece of stale bread..........................

A disgruntled voice murmurs,"whoever organized this pi$$ up ought to be crucified" !!

he followed the wise men back to where at least one of them  came from- India where he learnt his religion
bhuddist miracles of walking on water and feeding large crowds on a small parcel of food are reported there prior to Jesus

came back aged 30

was nailed up age 35

crucifixion takes 12 hours +

after 3 hours he was declared dead - but in fact had been drugged with the sponge soaked vinegar drink( think about it- who drinks vinegar?)

was taken to the tomb- and in the contemporary gospels there was never any mention of angels- just  empty tomb

lived out his life in india where his tomb is and where he is still revered as a prophet - google Srinagar India and you should find it



the wise men took 2 years to get to jesus

Pope John Paul II got consecrated as a saint after known miracles despite camera's following him everywhere and giving no proof whatsoever.

Christ performed a few hearsay miracles written many years after his death and was deemed the Son of (a) god.

Allah had a wet dream, married a kid that Jimmy Saville would have been jailed over and has millions of followers.

The more I find out about religions, the more I know it's all make believe. Sad thing is kids are being brainwashed to blow themselves up thanks to the worst religion of them all.

What happened to Jesus' missing years? He worked as a carpenter like everyone, nothing special until he seen religion.

Ovalman - have you read "God is not Great" by Christopher Hitchens?

Puts all religions to the sword

recommended

I listened to the audio book BigH. Wasn't too impressed nor was I impressed with The God Delusion. That's no fault of the authors, trying to disprove an unprovable deity is pointless.

Education and rational thinking is the key. Give kids the evidence and let them decide. Kids are the future and it's they who decide by the wisdom from us.

My favourite quote is misattributed to Carl Sagan

You can’t convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it’s based on a deep seated need to believe

Just answer the question ... what did Jesus do in the lost years and why didn't the Simon Cowell of the day sign him up as a child star?

He did appear on "Jerusalem's Got Talent" performing some miracles but was beaten into fourth after a street dance ensemble,  Peter Andre and a dog that said "sausages".

Jesus was a Capricorn
He ate organic food
He believed in love and peace
And never wore no shoes

Long hair, beard and sandals
And a funky bunch of friends
Reckon we'd just nail him up
If he came down again.

good afternoon!

mememememememe, the first 30 years of Jesus' life were inall likelihood, massively unremarkable. there's one account in Luke of Jesus appearing in the temple at around 12 years old which someone has already pointed out but as there is then nothing until he appears at the River Jordan to be baptised by John at around age 30. The significance of this event is that this is when his minitry began. Where was he before this? Living a very normal, unremarkable life around Judea. What was he doing? Living a very typical jewish life, learning a trade et al - just like everyone else? Why is it not recorded? The gospel's aren't a documentory, they're a collection of eye witness accounts compiled into a timeline of events. There's no account of Jesus' childhood because it was the same as thousands of other boys, who'd have remembered him? There was over 20k people ready to testify to Luke about Jesus' adulthood because that was highly remarkable and every man woman and child in Judea who'd seen him would have wanted their witness statement taken by the man who could write!

Ovalman, you can clutch to Carl Sagan all you like but the truth is you have your head in the sand. I don't believe because I "need" anything, I believe because i've studied the evidence of Jesus' life death and resurrection. I believe in its truth. I've read the promises from God of what happens when you put faith in him. I've put faith in him. I've watched him deliver on those promises. Sorry, you're a highly likable gent but Carl Sagan was way off the mark here, and so are you!

your statement that it is important that we cannot see the edge of time and space presupposes an outside entity who makes that judgement.

Why should we not be able to know everything? Our knowledge of the universe increases every day. Again you are invoking an external judge making decisions about what we can and cannot know.

That's upside down thinking to me. You are claiming to know things you cannot possibly know.

Foinavon hilarious as always!

Why should we not be able to know everything?

Because you're a puny human, you don't even understand quantum gravity never mind grand unification. no one does! why is that? because no one cares? don't think so. its because its currently beyond the capability of human understanding. you aint clever enough to get it! what on earth makes you think you're capable of understanding the origins of the universe (just for starters) without knowing these things. Never mind what triggered the big bang, never mind what was there beforehand Why do you think you're capable of understanding creation? Genesis 1 v2 says "The Earth was without form and void". WITHOUT FORM - since the form of the earth now is a lump of iron and nickel with a rock crust orbiting a small star on the outskirts of an unremarkable galaxy, for Genesis to say that in the beginning, the Earth was without form suggests that to God, the Earth was or is something else apart from just a lump of iron and nickel. Being honest , you can't get your head around that, neither can I, neither can anyone else. We're not supposed to. Why? Because it's got nothing to do with Jesus. He is the focus of everything, hence the name CHRISTianity, not GODianity or CREATIONianity. It's all about Jesus. Creation is beyond our understanding, Jesus is not but then I guess to you that's just another coincidnce isn't it?

Rabid atheists are the most boring people on the planet and even worse than religious zealots. Perhaps in a million years or even when we die, we will discover the true answer. The vast majority of the human race don't give a damn or don't care. All they are interested in is that they have enough money for booze, f@gs, betting and burds. Nice post Fkqmz.

thelordallmightymac

"Rabid atheists are the most boring people on the planet and even worse than religious zealots."
In my experience atheists are some of the most stimulating and interesting people I have met (but I've never met a rabid one). Religious zealots are often complete nutters who do atrocities in the "name of God".

"Perhaps in a million years or even when we die, we will discover the true answer."
If everything is truly beyond our comprehension then a million years wont help. NOBODY has reported back from the dead.

"The vast majority of the human race don't give a damn or don't care."
Statistics seem to say that followers of a religion outnumber atheists by about 2:1.

All they are interested in is that they have enough money for booze, f@gs, betting and burds."
Now you're talking sense.

Fkqmz,  you can clutch to your precious New Testament all you like but the truth is you have your head in the sand.

Believe in the myths and legends if it makes you happy, but unfortunately when you are dead, you're dead, same for everyone including you.

Charlie: In my experience atheists are some of the most stimulating and interesting people I have met (but I've never met a rabid one). Religious zealots are often complete nutters who do atrocities in the "name of God".

"Often" I mean, I've met my fair share of folk armed with pamphlets who reckon I ought to let the Lord into my life, but I seriously doubt whether a majority of them would have known how to commit an atrocity, even if they'd wanted to.

On the other hand, Josef Stalin had an "atheist five year plan" from 1932–1937, intended to eliminate all religious expression in the USSR. He declared that the concept of God would disappear from the Soviet Union. And by coincidence he starved 5 million Ukrainians to death in 1932-3 alone (although Stalin gleefully confided to Churchill that he'd actually managed to kill 10 million).

fkqmz knows, imo.

Well written.

foinavon, it's not about clutching at anything.

It's about having faith and seeing answers in day to day existence.

Have you ever opened your heart - not just your brain - to the Lord?  Have you?

only the Landlord

Which god would you have me open my heart to Trilby? There are lots and lots of them, all widely revered and very real to their followers. Are you saying that you're right and the others are wrong? How do you know?

Only the One you seek in your heart, Foinavon.

^ and trust (in your heart) to receive guidance by (in your brain).

Trilby, with all due respect wtf does that actually mean?
Give me examples of what you believe to be evidence of a religious god's existence please.
Also explain what 'opening your heart' means and how it's done in a practical sense, are you saying force yourself to love something that shows no sign of existing?

Love is a bi product of external factors it's not controlled internally

screaming while not attempting to defend the indefensible viv a viz Stalin I think I should mention a few points:

1. Stalin came from a very religious family and was a trained priest before becoming an atheist.
2. Relatively few deaths attributable to him were for anti-religious reasons (maybe 100,000 which is of-course indefensible).
3. The starving of Ukranians was done for political reasons not religious ones.
4. Atheists may not give two hoots about religion but they generally don't go around killing because of this belief. Millions of people have been slaughtered solely in the name of religion. This is the crux of the matter.

Dec 31, 2015 -- 10:31AM, dustybin wrote:

Trilby, with all due respect wtf does that actually mean?Give me examples of what you believe to be evidence of a religious god's existence please.Also explain what 'opening your heart' means and how it's done in a practical sense, are you saying force yourself to love something that shows no sign of existing?

dusty, i'm doing things i shouldn't aught today.  I'll answer your question when i'm sobre.

Meanwhile, God's Spirit lives in us all.  Whether we seek Him, is up to us.

Don't feel obliged trilby, I'm hardly waiting with baited breath.

Love just as hate is a product of our environment, people don't chose either but are shaped by their own chemicals and their experiences.
'Virtue is and of itself the reward' says philosophy. They can't possibly have known then what happens in the human mind when doing a virtuous act but they summed it up almost perfectly.
What we now know is that we reward ourself due to chemical release for being virtuous. This explains the leap of faith, generating a belief in something greater than the some of its parts.

I.e. It ain't God rewarding you, it's yourself

So much of the Jesus story is complete BS, that all of his story should be treated with a pinch of salt.  Had L. Hubbard or even David Icke been born 2,000 years ago then I'm sure their disciples would have written some BS stories about how wonderful they were.

I know if I'd been nailed to a cross there are two ways you can hurt those doing it.
One is to scream obscenities at them.....the other is to suggest they are doing something very wrong and will pay an almighty price.
'Forgive them (or don't) for they know not what they do'

It's actually a beautiful con trick.

If the story is true that Mary claimed she was a virgin, then his mother was clearly a BS artist.  Perhaps she put the idea he was the son of god in his head.

Arnt there accounts that the person to whom the scripts refer was actually one of seven siblings and he wasnt the eldest?

Charlie

1.Stalin came from a very religious family...not relevant, his intention was to eliminate all religious expression in soviet Russia...until he though they were in an almighty pickle during WW2 and he brought the priests back on board.

2.Relatively few deaths by him were for anti-religious reasons...debatable but the point is he was responsible for millions of deaths

3.The starving of Ukranians was done for political not religious reasons...exactly

4.Athiests may not give two hoots about religion but they generally do not go around killing because of this belief. Millions of people have been slaughtered solely in the name of religion. This is the crux of the matter....the crux of the matter is that athiests and non athiests have killed millions, this is the nature of man and the strange thing about evil is it will always find a reason.

who determines what is or isnt 'evil'?

Everything that is good and beautiful exists and everything that is evil exists outside of man, it is up to man to discover this and not to determine it.

so man doesnt know what is evil?

If we take a beautiful painting, or a mathematical formula...the beauty exists not because man says it is so and the formula is correct not because man says it is so...these things are there to be discovered.

aesthetics is just a perception

not so, if everyone in the world said that a Van Gogh painting was poor and not a masterpiece they would be wrong..indeed if Van Gogh himself said it was not a beautiful masterpiece he also would be wrong.

it is a masterpiece because people said it is, many ofc wouldnt give it wallspace

therefore art critics are devine?

that's because they do not have the capacity to understand, like a mathematical formula you might as well say it is not true because I don`t understand...all these things exist outside mans limited intellect and are there in time and space waiting.

some people will not like or understand or enjoy the beauty of Mozart...the fault is theirs and not in the music

a golden ratio exists perhaps due to overlaps or similarities to nature. We know laws of science exist or are perceived to exist, this doesnt suggest god by default however.

If we are all part of matter that is governed by the same laws then we can appreciate certain forms, the form that exists in nature as the champion of those that failed.
Masterpiece is still just an opinion

No but it does suggest something spiritual beyond the materialistic world. The point a lot of scientists seem to forget is just how strange it is that life exists...it is quite simply impossible that there is life on earth or anywhere else

Painting has got nothing to do with appreciating form really, it is about capturing an emotion or feeling in time..or course it has to use certain formula to portray this but you might as well say that  a beautiful piece of music is just notes...yes and no

Well I dont know what scientists think personally but I dont think they are blasie about life simply existing, but infact attempt to find causation as apposed to simply believing in proverb.

Im not entirely convinced we have yet proven life actually does exist, I believe we await a cosmic blast to calculate that one, my personal opinion is that consciousness is the collective of the part, like a perfect circle made of other shapes, when the other parts deviate or fail consciousness is lost, yet the circle was assumed to exist once but once gone shows no signs of ever existing

I hope not, I don't want to be part of everything, a small 9 hole golf course would be enough for me.

I dont find that concept disconcerting, if we are all part of the same matter then that could in itself be a form of eternal life, concepts of heaven just man made dreams for security and imo utterly superfluous.
What does spirituality suggest happens with clones? If a person is cloned are they 1 or two people?

As soon as they start to exist they will be two different people because they will have different thoughts, that cannot be cloned.

Im not suggesting they arnt 2 people, I was just curious as to how 'self' was assumed to be individual/
Arnt those two entities different simply as a result of the minute differences in perception then?

Not every person is equal and not every painting is equal and not every religion is equal. People are born and may or may not become human.

but all of that suggests evolution, since all painting aspire to be perfect and each defective human is the collective of genes attempting the same.
Im not so sure humans have as much importance as they believe they have in the context of 'being'
This ofc is a sideshow to where I was going originally which was to determine whether we regulate our own actions based on the opinions of fellow humans or a deity that judges each decision.
Love cant be directed imo, holding one to account for not doing it is akin to blaming a child for not being able to levitate.

trilby22
trilby22 31 Dec 15 02:02 Joined: 21 Aug 10 | Topic/replies: 6,784 | Blogger: trilby22's blog
Only the One you seek in your heart, Foinavon.

You're one of the good guys trilby, don't be like fkqmz who thinks he's doing "God's work". How egotistical is that!

We don't all think like you (although many do) and I'm not seeking a god in my heart or anywhere else. We were all brainwashed with religious ideas from an early age, I'm no exception but some of us managed to break free from the shackles of superstitious nonsense. I wouldn't criticise you for still believing but as I wrote before be wary of those who claim to know things they can't possibly know.
As an example Jihadists are told that if they become martyrs there will be a large number of virgins awaiting them in heaven. This belief is so strongly held, that some are prepared to don a suicide vest and murder innocent civilians.
We have all been told to believe things which on the face of it are unlikely to be true. You just have to engage your critical faculties a bit more, that's all.