Tyson Fury - gotta love his style!

Roger is positively seething.

ennis shouldnt beat murray14

A good seethe is an essential tool for any Chit Chatter.



OK, I'll get me coat.

I have never voted, but will vote for Fury, just to be contrary. Apart from being a betting opportunity what is the purpose of this inane show/award

Some posters must self combust with seethe when they see a spaff on her chebs or smash her back door in thread.

Still you are always going to attack him anyway Roger...so I will always defend him

You continually use the word thick, well not everybody is clever
and bringing the Heavyweight title back to this country is something neither of us could achieve

Attacking his asinine beliefs and the risible notion that he is in any way a role model, other than to the 'pretend downtrodden' who get off on being victims.

Not quite sure what yours or mine ability to win the world heavyweight championship belt has to do with the price of fish either.

He's certainly far from thick. Like most travellers he didn't have much of an education but he's a pretty sharp fella. He's just a bit mad and that mixed up with his old fashioned views seem to be a potent combination.

Disagree with you on this one, EO. He may be 'sharp' but he's extremely thick.

I rather think Easter has made the best post on this thread:

Mikael D'Haguenet    10 Dec 15 09:23 

"Does Fury actually like gays and have the utmost respect for women iyo? I doubt it myself. He's thick and spouts sh!te. She's not thick and spouts evil, bitter, considered sh!te."

Just so spot on.

He's not educated and he's no Einstein but I'm not sure how you can be both sharp and thick.

you'd think a white British heavyweight champ would be more popular than this!

Because he's sharp with his thinking in what will make him loads of dosh; ie spouting tosh so he gets load of publicity, hence more money for fights - but thick in his knowledge of the human condition.
And it's no excuse being uneducated or not.

Yeah because this is great publicity he is getting. Must have only said these things to become more marketable.

This is boxing we're talking about, Shrewd-dude.

So? How much publicity did he get when he made these comments on 7th November? Who was even mentioning it other than the Daily Mail who published it? He's got publicity because he won the World Heavyweight Title and got nominated to Spoty. The stuff since has just been negative from mainly professional offended merchants.

Even so, the more people talk about him - even in the negative - is all fuel to the fire of him making massive amounts of money in his future bouts.
He won't be regretting anything at all.

Boxing is not a terrestrial sport anymore.

Few people who aren't boxing/sports fans would have any idea who he is if it hadn't been for the furore about his comments.

I'll bet most people in Britain now know he is the current WHC, whether they want to or not.

Very sharp.

He's got a platform since he won the World Championship. Well, a bigger platform to spout his nonsense - he was coming out with stuff about being able to spot weather a person is taking performance enhancing drugs when they took off their shirt in his presence, in the run up to the Klitschko fight.

I agree with Shrewd's comments. Who knows how many other boxers out there think as he does? Certainly a fair proportion of the populace will share some if not many of his views (excluding the apocalyptic stuff). Now he is the champ people care?

saying he believes in jesus should be enough to drop him from SPOTY

He won't be regretting anything at all because he doesn't care, if he is asked his views he will answer. He's getting publicity because he won the fight. If he hadn't none of this would have come about. If he was simply doing this for money why wouldn't he add further fuel to the fire if it was going to make him more money?

Don't see how he is going to make money from being known by all these people who didn't care about him or his views until they realised he said something they took offense to.

Look at Joshua, probably will have the same profile in the UK after tonight's fight all because he's got a big promotion company vetting everything he does and building his image. Will have all the media fawning over him because of this and be far more marketable than Fury, even though he's a convicted drug dealer.

thick in his knowledge of the human condition.

I don't think most of us would say that is thick though tommy. I doubt there are many on here who could say hand on heart that they arent "thick" at least when it comes to the other 50% of the population. I'd say that if you disapprove of his views more apposite terms would be unenlightened, intransigent, moralistic, judgmental etc etc.

Good point portman. Should we also retrospectively take away Mo's awards and strip people like Jonathan Edwards of their medals?

Well, possibly, EO - but I rather think he's just plain thick!

Albeit, very sharp.

People are reading far too much into this. He's daft and talks a lot. Anybody thinking there is some machiavellian plan is mistaken.

I think you're trying to get me going here Tommy.

Shrewd-dude, something worth considering is that we're on a sports forum where most of us have a great love of sport.

Out there, in the ordinary world, there is a great mass of people totally uninterested in sport - other than a passing glance of what's 'fashionable'.

Anthony Joshua, as great as he is as an up-and-coming fantastic prospect of a future WHC for us who love boxing, will be unknown to the majority of the general public.

Tyson Fury will now not be, because of all the negative publicity.

And he'll love it.

haha EO!

If Joshua fulfills his potential I've no doubt he will be a household name Tommy.

Definitely, EO - and hopefully because he'll be the real deal and no nonsense.

'No nonsense' = promotion of gays and abortion??

Nah, just the recognition that he's a true World Heavyweight Champion - and should be celebrated as such.

He's wearing very snug shorts tonight with The Pink Pounder written on the back.

hahahaha!!

..as opposed to the fella who went the distance (and beat) an 11 year reigning World Champ?

Point taken, Injera.

I suppose I'm just showing my preference to a boxer who looks like someone I want to be a WHC.

A convicted drug dealer?

The linear champ no less Injera which counts for quite a bit amongst true fans especially in these days of the alphabet soup of titles. I'm not too interested in what he says in truth. It's like Richard Prior said when he asked Neon Leon what he did and he said, "knock motherfrukers out". Not a bad job description. If I want wit I'll look for somebody other than a boxer. Even Ali wasn't that witty.

Well no, Shrewd_dude, just someone who has the physic and true ability of a heavyweight champ.

Again, I'm showing my personal preference.

Haha!! Yes, it's refreshing when someone tells the truth.

Wouldn't it be nice if a footballer said (with a huge grin) 'blimey, I'm getting paid £10m a year for kicking a bag of wind..'.

Tommy's also right. It's good to focus on the sport. Sadly the media are quick to overlook Fury's achievements and ridicule him for daring to have an opinion.

They would rather praise a long jumper and a lady footballer who I admit, I've never heard of.

why do u think he has more ability than Fury? I don't.

Weird. Its not a beauty contest.

*physique

Sorry, my computer is in whirring mode and it's very difficult to post at present.

Yes, I do think Joshua shows more ability - and yes, I do want a man with a superb physique to be the WHC.

It's the same with everything in life: we all have our own preferences.

Only just seen: Talk of the fight on Radio 5 Extra at the moment until transmission of the fight on R5 at 22:30

maybe bodybuilding's your thing then tommy

He is odds on Joshua but not a complete certainty

Dillian Whyte is undefeated himself.....so hopefully a good fight

I prefer them to one sided affairs,

Haha, no, Freddiek - just an old fashioned notion of 'perfection' in things.

There is nothing more satisfying in the visual world of sport than a great athlete being accompanied by a great body.

And that's a fact.

We, as human beings, are automatically programmed to admire beauty.

In my mind, Joshua outflanks Fury just a tad in those stakes.

Eubank Jr fight on Radio 5 Extra now.

Joshua wins, very impressive, brave fight from Whyte

7th ko

I am not sure the boxing game is about beauty Tommy

All Tyson Fury did was express values from a time slightly in the past now

I prefer them values myself, todays values baffle me

Enjoyed the fight. Lot of credit to Whyte who was very game. Joshua will have learned some useful stuff in that fight. Maybe more than in all his previous wins put together.

Bruno had a great body. Norton may have had the greatest physique of any heavy. Doesn't mean a great deal. Joshua was too caught up in the emotion of wanting to damage Whyte that he forgot the cardinal rule of creating your opportunities and he got tagged a couple of times. Even so his stamina was good and he will learn not to get emotionally engaged. Adrenaline is great for a street fight but keep your brain in the fridge in the ring. Lennox used to have a nap until it was time to warm up. On balance I'm in a better place regarding what I think Joshua can do than I was before the fight. Which may seem paradoxical but like I said it was a great fight to learn some valuable things which will help him as he moves into world class.

Ebulgery, of course the boxing game isn't about beauty - but it appeals to our human notion of aesthetics when someone is a champ and also looks like a champ.

Ali set the trend.
Some of the photos taken of him in the sixties/early seventies still stand up today as magnificent portraits of a beautiful man who was also the World Heavyweight Champion, a title once so revered by all - even non-sports fans.

We also had Norton, as EO has referred to, and Foreman had the most magnificent physique in his early years.
Joshua reminds me very much of Foreman body-wise.

Remember the horrible 80s when so many so-called boxers were lard buckets with limited ability?
It used to make me wince to see them even step into the ring.

It really was a great test for Joshua last night and he came out of it learning a lot - and admitting to the fact.
All good stuff.
This is a purple patch for British boxers at the moment, with so many World Champs and so many other fighters bubbling under - and everyone of them are really skilled and honed.
That really is something to be excited about.

One of the iconic photos of Ali, underwater, in 1961 before he was champ:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/d2/f8/cb/d2f8cb92ab175f5020628e48789f16d4.jpg

Just perfection

In terms of physique I'd say he's not a million miles away from someone like Cleveland Williams seen here fighting Liston. He's just about four inches taller and thirty or so pounds heavier. It puts it into context when you think someone like David Haye would have been seen as a pretty big heavy if you went back pre 80's. Even Foreman used to come in at a similar weight to Haye and he was naturally a significantly bigger man.

Oops. Forgot the link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWbpM99wD2M

Excellent link, EO - and yes, it's amazing to think these days that most heavyweights pre 80s were around the 15 and a half stone mark (or even lighter).
But, as seen in that fight, what a far better contest it made for when heavyweights were more mobile because they weren't so heavy - even though they had the height.

The link also showed just why they thought Ali (then, Clay) would be 'murdered' by Liston in their first title fight and why Clay was 6/1.

What a bruiser Liston was.

Well yes tommy I suppose boxing has a beauty of its own

This country seems fortunate with its heavyweights at the moment

We are living in the era of the 'Super Heavyweights', I think more food and better food is producing bigger people

and modern training methods

The old fashioned boxing divisions could be a little out of date, they all need to move up in weight a bit?


That was a stiffer test for Anthony Joshua last night, but he has come through with flying colours, his future

looks bright at the moment

Although I still think Boxing is an extremely hard way to make a living

The problem with Liston is nobody had a clue how old he was and was almost certainly a fair bit older than his published age when he fought Ali. One thing which is kryptonite for the older fighter is speed and Ali had it in abundance as a young man. Marry that up with the fact that he was a prime physical specimen and a big heavy for the time and you had the perfect heavyweight.

Good point you made about the fighting. That's what they did. Not like two drunks holding each other up. The problem being that none of todays light heavies or cruisers can offset the physical disadvantages in height and weight to some of these big heavies despite their superior speed and footwork. Even arguably the greatest lighter guy to go up in Holyfield avoided the biggest guys where he could and didn't have a good record against the best of em in Bowe and Lewis when he had to fight them.

On Liston though people forget what a good jab he had when he worked it. Him and Holmes were a joy to watch in that respect.

“All Jews and gentiles are devils… Blacks are no devils… Everything black people doing wrong comes from (the white people): Drinking, smoking, prostitution, homosexuality, stealing, gambling: It all comes from (the white people)”
.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/12/13/muhammad-jews-are-devils-ali-was-the-bbcs-sports-personality-of-the-century-but-tyson-fury-is-beyond-the-pale/

Yes but Fury is the wrong end of the BBC affirmative action Dulux wall chart.

Good point you made about the fighting. That's what they did. Not like two drunks holding each other up.

Yes EO, and that's what was so sickening come the 80s when that's what the majority of heavyweight contests tended to be.
It really saddened my dear old dad who would tut and holler when ever he saw such an abuse of the skilful art.

It's so much better this last decade or so - but I agree with you that because of this era of the 'super-sizers' it's very rare that a fast 'normal' heavyweight can get the better of one of the monsters by sheer skill.
Which is a pity - but terrific when it comes off.

BB

I forgive Ali, I really liked him, I don't care if he has a few weird views

As for Tyson Fury, well I agree with him, so no problem there with me

Also these are only WORDS remember that

tommy when you talk about how bad the 80s heavyweight scene was you're forgetting one mike gerard tyson.

I agree freddiek, awesome at his best, I have never seen a fighter who was able to generate so much menace is this man did

A great many of his opponents were beaten before they ever got in the ring with him

Later on he was not quite so good, Evander Holyfield did a job on him. But at his best, he terrified the lights out

of anyone else, and he always had his big punch

No I'm not, Freddiek - as he was the one bright light of that miserable decade - and by heck, when he came on the scene it was like a throwback to the glory days - or even something even more special
But,on reflection, it's probably because the heavyweight division was so inferior then that he looked so magnificent.

I think it is sad Mike Tyson is not allowed in this country now

Of course he did wrong but he has served his sentence

My usual complaint, our society is being ruled by women, who are nothing if not vindictive

You're not wrong ebulgerry, William Congreve had them sussed.......
"Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned, Nor hell a fury like a woman scorned ..

People romanticise Tyson burnishing his many attributes and glossing over his flaws.

His flaws have little to do with his boxing have they?

Yes he is a flawed man, but you must realise the sort of environments these boxers come from?

Very much from the underclass and often very violent environments, don't expect Saints

We all make mistakes, he did

He had one major flaw. Like all bullies, he didn't like getting hit back and didn't know what to do when he was. You mention Holyfield. At the end of the first round of their first meeting, Tyson punched Holyfield clearly after the bell. The ref jumped between them but Holyfield hit him back anyway. As he sat on his stool, his trainer Don Turner said to him "all you gotta do is stay calm and it's you... you the bully in here, he ain't the bully." It may not be as memorable as Angelo Dundee's "you're blowing it now, son," or Eddie Futch's "it's all over. No one will forget what you did here today," but it is to me. 14/1!

Well that is your view Mikael

But in Boxing I should think everyone gets hit back...part of the art of Boxing is to defend against or avoid this
or I don't think anyone would last long in Boxing

Also I don't think anyone would win many fights if they were not prepared to 'Bully' their opponent..I do not think Tyson differs from any
other boxer in this respect.

Tyson projected himself as a 'Bully' in order to psyche his opponents out. If an opponent doubted his confidence and/or courage it made Tyson's job a lot easier. This is quite common in boxing and other sports.

It is to Holyfield's credit he did not allow this to happen. He also worked out how he could beat Tyson.
I did not see the fight. I don't know if it is on the Web anyway? Tyson's biggest complaint after the fight was that
whenever Tyson got in close enough to unload his punches, Holyfield was holding on to him. Tyson felt the referee should have stopped this..
Holyfield does not appear to have had much trouble hitting Tyson.

There was a rematch but I don't Tyson was fairing any better than first time round, when he resorted to the 'Luiz Saurez' defence
biting off part of Hollyfield's ear.

I thought Tyson should been banned for life, he may claim to be an animal, but he really cannot start attacking opponents
with his teeth. It is not in the rules.

I think on his ability, he can be thrown into the ring as one of the better heavyweights.

As for his crime and other character flaws, I can live with them myself

But everybody has to make this decision for themselves

Also I don't think anyone would win many fights if they were not prepared to 'Bully' their opponent..I do not think Tyson differs from any
other boxer in this respect.

You've obviously never seen Floyd Mayweather (49-0) fight.

For tommy.

[   This image is no longer available.   ]

His flaws had everything to do with his boxing ebul. Some men are made in the furnaces of hell and will claw their way out if necessary. D'Amato created a monster in terms of his abilities but also contributed to him being a weak man mentally. That was a problem which was exploited by all the people who beat him and some of those who didn't. Tyson was a great on top fighter and completely hopeless at turning fights around where he was struggling. Which is often the case with those fighters who project the aura of menace instead of truly being menacing. I lost count of the fights where people had the temerity to wack him back and he had that little boy lost look on his face. Even in the first Bruno fight he didn't like Bruno roughing him up and looked completely sorry for himself sat in his corner before Bruno ran out of steam.

Non of the great fighters from history would have been in the least intimidated by Tyson and once you took that away from him he was a much diminished fighter.

I remember watching a fighter interviewed who worked with all three of Tyson, Holy and Lewis and his assessment closely corrolates with my own views of their merits. Tyson had the strongest single punch power. Lewis was the best boxer. Holyfield was the toughest man.

Boxing will never be a mainstream sport again because of PPV.  Greed over legacy.

And some men take in Syrian refugees.

Gone quiet again sucker?

Now that was ALOFS and you'll never live it down. Ever.

Well you seem to have psychologically worked him out eternal..

A fighter may seem a bully because he dominates his opponent. In fact he is faced with a man of equal weight

who has been trained to fight as he has, who will hit back when he can.In that sense it is deemed a fair contest.

Other fearsome heavyweights I remember who appeared very menacing were Sonny Liston and George Foreman, both having a very

hard punch. Ali beat them both as underdog. Still my best Heavyweight.

Floyd Mayweather was an all time great Mikael he bullied many an opponent.

That's what people found hard to look beyond ebul. They were dazzled by his speed. In awe of his footwork and amazed by his unorthodox combinations. They didn't and possibly even now don't truly appreciate that the cherry on top of the cake was his indomitable spirit. The quest for victory. The refusal to succumb. He had that whereas Tyson didn't.

I remember writing a piece for a boxing publication many years ago about The Rumble In The Jungle and it's something which I don't think anybody else had seen about that fight to my knowledge. It's what happened in the first round. I'm sure you can get it up on you tube to check my assertions. He comes out to destroy Foreman mentally. What you never do in boxing is out of an orthodox stance throw right hand leads. They travel much further and so immediately hand the initiative to your opponent who will throw jabs which travel a much shorter distance. He did this quite deliberately to show George that his speed would embarrass the younger man. Of course Foreman being an absolute killer at this time and a great heavyweight in his own right didn't take this lying down and he was enraged by Ali's antics.

If you see the film look at Ali as he stands up in his corner after that first round. Look closely. What do you see? That's right. Fear. It's there for about five seconds as he realises that what he intended to do to Foreman can't work because he simply doesn't have the legs to carry him for long enough. That's the beauty of Ali as a fighter. He doesn't crumble in the moment. He looks inside himself and asks what does he have to win this fight and he comes up with the answer. Heart. You see him at this moment give a brief nod. That is when Rope A Dope is born. Ali tried to be too clever after the fight because had he been straight with people his legend would have been even grater for that one moment when he looked into his soul and came up with gold.

That is an impressive post eternal I must admit

I do still question you over Mike Tyson though....I never saw a coward sorry
I don't think anyone who gets into a Boxing ring is a coward, although some are more steadfast than others

I just watched his fight against Hollyfield on Utube was a very good fight
Hollyfield looked the bigger and stronger man, was always pushing Tyson back. He did hold on a bit inside but don't think that was reason for
Tysons defeat.Tyson was not at his best, but I think he beaten by a better man on the day.
A couple of times Tyson landed a good punch was not able to follow it up

He has lost to Buster Douglas before this and been in prison for 3 years. I don't think he was as good as he had been.

He seems to have financial problems now, often happens???
Seems a very mixed up man to me, instincts govern him a lot. But I wish him well.

I will remember him when he was at his best

Tyson weighed in 7lb heavier than Holyfield for the first fight. In the final 31 fights of Tyson's career, ie. from the time he became champ against Trevor Berbick, he only fought one fighter who weighed less than Holyfield - Michael Spinks. He'd made a career out of KOing 'bigger and stronger' men. He got his ass handed to him by a blown up cruiserweight.

You misconstrue what I'm saying ebul. Boxing is far too important not to be precise in what you are saying. I said Tyson was mentally weak. I don't recall ever saying any boxer is a coward. I've been in the ring a lot when I was younger, even sparring it can be a lonely place and I just don't see boxers in that way. Like I said in line with my previous experiences in life I choose specific words rather than others in order to illustrate a point.

Let me explain this using another word which I think illustrates my point more clearly and that is passivity. Hang with me while I explain. I've already said that Tyson was a great on top fighter. Maybe the best three round heavyweight in history. If he could put the hurt on you or intimidated you in that time he would invariably finish you off. Totally lethal. Did he ever let anybody off the hook? I'm struggling to recall. My point is that beyond those early rounds he was more greatly subject to the laws of diminishing returns than any great fighter I can think of. He fell off from an incredibly high point fairly quickly. He ran out of ideas. By the time he got to the middle rounds if he wasn't in control he fell into a virtual non aggression pact with his rival and was happy to take it the distance. You saw it so many times even early in his career against much inferior fighters who refused to budge. I can provide a list if you like and it doesn't make pretty reading.

How many times did he stop an opponent in the later rounds? I'm struggling to remember any. He had quite a few points victories and also stoppage losses on his ledger. Don't get me wrong. He usually took his beatings like a man and tried to the end but he simply wasn't the same fighter against opponents who were able to withstand his early onslaught and then fired back.

Seeing as I'm in a boxing talk mood I'll put some flesh on those bones. With all due respect to some of the legendary figures from boxing anitiquity, Sullivan (first gloved champ) Johnson (arguably first truly great heavy) and Dempsey (the man who did the most to make boxing into the bonanza it became) heavyweight boxing, partly due to the colour bar, didn't become the talent laden sport it did become until at least Louis era. Even then he had to fight a bum a month because fighters just fought so much more than they do today.

All that said you can run through a list of the great heavies from Louis, Marciano, Liston, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Holmes, Holyfield, Bowe, Lewis and both Klitschko's and they all had several fights which were stopped either by TKO or KO in the later rounds (from 8 onwards).

Tyson had one. That was against Ribalta who he'd already put the hurt on earlier in the fight and had his down three times before he was stopped in round 10.

Now that's not just a selected great doing that. It's all of them. All except Tyson.

You may be throwing too much at me eternal so I may have to retire...

When I watched the Hollyfield - Tyson fight, you would have sworn Hollyfield was the bigger man

He pushed Tyson back and was holding so I think Tyson must have felt it was part boxing, part wrestling, this tired Tyson badly

Interesting how the commentary changed from Hollyfield wins the early rounds...but we all know what Tyson can do
,to the middle rounds, Hollyfiled is leading on points, to the later rounds when the commentator said, the only way Tyson can win this is to knock Hollyfield out.......It the end it was Tyson who was stopped.

I do some empathy for Mike Tyson a man who has been both up and down

I was born of a generation who thought Ali was the greatest....well he kept telling us he was!, but he also proved it.

Sad he now has Parkinson's he was a very articulate man

I think he took far more punches than any one thought throughout his career, despite his speed, he just did not show it.

It looks as if it has  caught up with him

Howdy ebul. I may appear to be but I'm not dogging Tyson. He was what he was and he had many great attributes. His combinations as a young man and head movement were terrific and given he's average sized in stature his ability to work his way into striking range without getting tagged too much was superb and even when he was tagged that 20 inch neck could soak up plenty.

Tyson was never a great in fighter though. Many fighters now don't bother. Look at the Wlad/Fury fight. Wlad clinched whenever they got close. Fury threw something. Anything to get the judges attention that he was still firing in scoring shots. Once Tyson was in range to clinch though he more often than not allowed the clinch to happen and leaned on his man. Which took away what should have been another attribute that a smaller man should have over a bigger one because they are usually more agile and can operate in tighter confines. Holyfield was determined to impose himself on Tyson physically by fair means or foul. People often said they should have put a glove on his head the amount of times he'd stick it on an opponent.

That said he turned Tyson into his biitch that night. Tyson spent his career hitting low, after the bell, trying to break peoples arms in clinches etc. Like I said before he met somebody that night just as willing to dish out the rough stuff and he didn't like it.

All that said let's also be fair to Tyson. He blew his career and that was his own fault but in one respect prison saved him because after Douglas everybody wanted to fight him and as Ruddock showed they would now fight him hard. Prison allowed the aura to build again and all he needed afterwards were a couple of easy wins to smooth his path. It was bad luck that the mid/late 90's had a lot of good big fighters around and if Holyfield hadn't got him Lewis would have.

Did you know that Tyson paid Lewis several million dollars not to fight him in about 1996?

I'll tell you the story if it interests you.

Ali was the opposite to Tyson. The similar amount of time he spent out of the ring over the draft robbed him of his speed. Angelo Dundee said that after he was cleared to fight after so many years out of the ring it just wasn't there any more. Even so in the 70's when he was a diminished fighter he was still good enough to be the best of the era many consider the golden era for heavyweights.

Tyson v Bowe would have been an interesting fight. say in the late 1990s..2 new yorkers, both a bit er, unstable.

There was the briefest window around early 96 after Bowe beat Holy in the decider where they could have got it on freddie but Tyson was after easier pickings, big money and the titles and Bowe didn't bring those to the table. By the time Golota had finished using his knackers as maracas Bowe was a crazy man. Wonderful fighter at his best who had all the tools.

I have decided to throw in the towel eternal.....I am not coming out for the 7th

Incredibly brutal professional boxing, people get destroyed physically and mentally in the ring
but sometimes wonderful

Did you know why men's faces tend to be flatter than women's
Because we punch each other in the face..there must have been a lot fisticuffs in cavemen days
So it appears there is wannabe Heavyweight Champion of the World in all men, even the most timid.

You keep your eye on the apparently timid ones ebul. Coward Of The County and all that.

The thing with Boxing, especially Professional Boxing, is when somebody is defeated, particularly if badly,

I feel his manhood has been diminished

I think that is what separates it from all other sports

I hate seeing one sided fights, I really do


I can see I am never going to defeat you on Boxing Knowledge Eeternal, you do know your boxing

i doubt Bowe was banging down doors to fight Mike either.