Russian jet shot down over turk occupied territory

Dave obviously not from Vladivostok

if they were really clever and got their act together they could have written courtesy of cameron and obama on the missiles that shot the rushkie plane down after all they provided them

Who's side is Turkey on ???
So what... maybe the Russian Plane did stray into Turkish Air Space - but shoot it down and then murder the Pilot & Navigator as they parachute down and can't defend themselves ??? 
Very brave ...If I were Putin I'd now slam a few Cruise Missiles into Istanbul and let them pick the bones out of that....see if they want some more !

there syrain rebels who killed the pilots because putin,s defending assad the russians have been bombing them for months, only using the weapons we give them it would be very rude of them not to put them to use after the money theyve cost,this is the barn pot country gideon,cameron,fallon and hammond are tripping over themselves to get involved in, madness i say ,madness, you dont need to be gypsy rose lee to write the headlines for 12 months time

as  regards shooting the pilots commrade cameron said shoot to kill and corbyn was ridiculed for saying otherwise,its war according to the west

David Mitchell on the Russians...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt2u4dlZBHE

Still seems wrong to shoot down an aircraft just because it is occupying your airspace for a short period.

they nearly took one down last week ,theyve been well warned but with putin pulling so many strings in the same battle who,s going to give them any leeway

It was shot down for bombing Turkish backed terrorists/freedom fighters

His rebels shot down a civilian plane in Ukraine..??? crap ...
The BUK Missile was launched from the Ukranian West....it's an out of date model of BUK - no longer used by Russia for years ...that's been proved beyond all doubt by Russia. 
The Russian company that makes the BUK air defense system that was used to shoot down a Malaysian airliner in east Ukraine said on Tuesday, that the plane was hit by a missile deployed by Ukraine and not widely used by Russia's military. State-run Almaz-Antey said its own analysis of the wreckage of the Malaysia Airlines plane brought down on July 17 last year, killing 298 people, indicated it was hit by a BUK 9M38M1 surface-to-air missile armed with a 9H314M warhead. Such missiles have not been produced in Russia since 1999 and the last ones were delivered to foreign customers. They added that the Russian armed forces now mainly use a 9M317M warhead with the BUK system.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The Russian Aircraft posed no threat to Turkey FACT !... so why shoot it down and murder the Aircrew
The Kurds have been fighting ISIL ...The Turks are at War with the Kurds!
Turkey has been buying "Black Market" Crude Oil from ISIL and therefor funding ISIL !
And supplying ISIL with Arms ....
ISIL are Muslim ...Turkey is a Muslim Country !
Wake up and smell the coffee !
Assad Government ...like him/them or not is the legitimate Government of Syria there are over 20 differening warring Jihadi Anti Assad factions fighting in Syria including ISIL  - the only way to defeat ISIL in Syria is to fight along with Assad's troups ...this has been the Russian view from the start ...now the West realise Russia was right and will join this fight along with Assad.
Given this and when Syria stabilises ...only then can there be free and fair elections !
You don't know and I don't know who the Syrian electorate will vote for ....
they may well vote Assad back in !!!!

It was shot down over Syria not Turkey. The plane crashed in Syria and the pilots landed (and were killed) in Syria.

Turkey is buying the oil from IS on the cheap and arming the jihadis. Russia has made a point of bombing the oil terminals and trucks.

WTF is Turkey playing at???

and what did the us do for ages - very little  it makes me laugh how they make out they are so anti daesh when they really want assad out - that is US policy

doesn't seem to be very much factual in dave's post

Syrian gunman shot at Russian pilots while paratchuting down ,both dead

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Cdkf3Xx3nw&feature=youtu.be


one of the pilots--graphic you may not want to look

That is distressing xmoneyx and probably a war crime

"A Brit used to be able to understand that someone sneaking about the edges of the country with submarines and warplanes was an obvious enemy."

what do you think the purpose is of this so called "sneaking about"?

Wings Over Scotland Retweeted


Eric Joyce ‏13 minutes ago
 
Killing an ejected pilot is, straightforwardly, a war crime.

Geopolitics and a proxy war between US and Russia being played out in Syria.
Western mainstream media are propagandists for the US military industrial complex agenda.
IS/Daesh never existed before Iraq invasion, and there is some doubt still as to whether it does exist in the way we are told (just like Al Qaida.)
IS getting funding from Saudis.
Turkey buying most of the oil from IS.
IS using weapons and equipment from the US.
Who are the three countries that IS should hate religiously more than any other? The US, Saudi Arabia (for allowing infidels into the holy land) and of course Israel
Which three countries never get attacked by IS? The US, Saudi Arabia and Israel.
European economies/politics being destabilised by Syrian refugee crisis.
Wolfowitz´s neocon plan Project for the New American Century describes destabilizing the middle east and invading 7 countries in order to secure oil for US economy.
This plan was confirmed by General Wesley Clarke.
The US wants a pipeline for Quatari gas to Europe to go through Syria.
Assad wants a pipeline from Iran through Syria. (see http://oil-price.net/en/articles/oil-prices-and-syrian-civil-war.php)

The US military industrial complex and an out of control CIA are the biggest terrorists on the planet. Just look at military budgets...The US $607bn - Russia $55bn. The US spends more on military than the next 14 countries put together...Why? The US has military bases in 147 countries, including at least 6 - with nukes - in the UK...Why? Who are they protecting us against?

Wake up people!

its a mess,dont worry PM Cameron will fix it Thursday

I'm not sure if that's same clip I just saw on the google news, that was unpleasant. It's odd how these are supposed to be to be the moderate "good guys" but any clip you ever see of them is them shouting that phrase we know so well by now, as they take joy in killing people. Same as the "bad guys".

...Germans will probably become familiar with it.

You can't really see how these guys killing the crew in cold blood is going to put Putin into a frame of mind for backing off attacking anyone in that area. They'll want blood.

Oh FFS the conspiracy nuts have crawled out of their tin foil four poster beds..

I wonder if conspiracy nuts realise how sad they are..

"This plan was confirmed by General Wesley Clarke."

must be factual then

mover do you even know who he is?

It's true. Just as there was no al Qaeda organization in Iraq before the Bush Blair invasion in 2003, there was no ISIS in Syria before the US and its allies tried to overthrow Assad since 2011.

Osama bin laden hiding in a complex underground cave system.

Just checking, since you take pride in being a mouthpiece for the official versions of events:

Do you still believe the US/UK invaded Iraq for WMDs?
Do you still believe the Vietnamese fired on US ships in the Gulf of Tonkin?
Do you still believe LH Oswald killed JFK alone?
Do you still believe the twin towers were brought down by a bunch of arabs with no flying ability crashing passenger planes first time into two NYC buildings, the subsequent gasoline fire being hot enough to melt steel (despite 2200 of America´s top architects saying this is impossible)?

A lie shouted loudly and long enough is still a lie.

Nov 24, 2015 -- 5:44PM, xmoneyx wrote:

its a mess,dont worry PM Cameron will fix it Thursday

Just hold tight until Dave throws the RAF at this, problem solved

alazeera tv showing a Russian helicopter hit by a ground to air missile

Syrian rebels kicking the shate out of them

Nov 24, 2015 -- 6:05PM, TiptheOdds wrote:

mover do you even know who he is?

Yes, he was the liar that told a journalist that the attempt to link Saddam and 9/11 "came from the White House, it came from people around the White House, it came from all over. I got a call on 9/11. I was on CNN, and I got a call at my home saying, 'You've got to say this is connected. This is state-sponsored terrorism.'"

and later admitted he didn't get a call from the White House at all but someone from a Middle East think tank.

Basically as big a bullsh1tter as you will find

Good. Still can´t make you think independently though, you still need to be told what to think by the DM or whoever. And people like you make me feel sad to be British (Christ we can´t say yanks are dumb!); sad that our education system failed so miserably.

you still haven´t answered my questions Just checking...

Don't come crying to me when the 8 million Syrian refugees are flooded in to Europe. 

Nov 24, 2015 -- 6:26PM, TiptheOdds wrote:

Good. Still can´t make you think independently though, you still need to be told what to think by the DM or whoever. And people like you make me feel sad to be British (Christ we can´t say yanks are dumb!); sad that our education system failed so miserably.

what has the DM or education system got to do with me giving an example of lies spoken by Wesley Clarke who you used in your post to substantiate claims that the US plans to invade 7 countries

Conflict News ‏@Conflicts  · 16m16 minutes ago 
#Russia's Defense Ministry warns #Turkey: “anyone threatening our air forces will be destroyed.” #Syria

Russia tweeter feed meltdown

with I could read russian

When Putin is finished, that won't be optional

a simple yes or no will do just checking.

WMDs? Yes/No
Gulf of Tonkin? Yes/No
JFK? Yes/No
9/11? Yes/ No

Or are you just gonna come on spouting your usual BS about conspiracy theories but run away and not tell us where YOU stand on the most famous ones...

putin will drop a battlefield nuke 1.01

TiptheOdds  • November 24, 2015 6:10 PM GMT 


Just checking, since you take pride in being a mouthpiece for the official versions of events:

Do you still believe the US/UK invaded Iraq for WMDs?
Do you still believe the Vietnamese fired on US ships in the Gulf of Tonkin?
Do you still believe LH Oswald killed JFK alone?
Do you still believe the twin towers were brought down by a bunch of arabs with no flying ability crashing passenger planes first time into two NYC buildings, the subsequent gasoline fire being hot enough to melt steel (despite 2200 of America´s top architects saying this is impossible)?

A lie shouted loudly and long enough is still a lie.


I was gonna suggest you write a book and make a fortune but that ship has sailed and many a time too.
people make themselves millionaires out of the mugs who lap up their conspiracies.

The plane spent 17 seconds in Turkish airspace

Why do we have Turkey in NATO? They could drag us into a war with stupid sh*t like this.

How many miles is it from Turkey to the North Atlantic?

typical bulll**** troll.

Obama will surely go down as the worst US president in US history. Whilst arabs behead his citizens, bomb and fly planes into his buildings, he and his ilk seem to think Russia is still the enemy.....


The moron probably thought Rocky was real

what on earth are you on about, it was turkey who reported it was 17 seconds.

Just the 1200 diff factions got their oars in on Syrian soil apparently so not quite as straight forward as a few might have us believe by senderany means ,Russians won't be in a hurry to leave ,they never are .although they scurried out of Afghanistan after just 9 years of occupation ,let the big boys play with their toys and let them kill and maim ,glad we are not getting involved and glad the yanks are keeping out as well ,let NATO deal with it that's what they are there for ,Turkey is no doubt playing a hand in Syria and Russia has no doubt been bombing them inside Syria but they can't complain when the Turks protect their borders ,believe Turkey has one of the biggest armies in Europe so this could get very ugly ,seems like their is an ineviatability about it ,not good

dave, you seem to have a real hate problem with Putin and Russia. What´s he ever done to you?

Have you ever seen him interviewed? He was asked many questions by western journos in press conferences recently and, contrary to his image in the west, he actually comes across as an intelligent and sensible guy.

Turkey said earlier they gave 10 warnings over 5 minutes, though. Which sounds like BS.

You'd think that entire area will be be watched by everyone involved anyway, the allies and russians will have their own records.

Sometimes with the "fog of war" you have to let things fly...

Dave, Russia lied so much it became funny in the Ukraine, I completely agree they lie, but it doesn't mean Turkey isn't lying here. They may both be lying.

No matter what, Turkey are playing a dangerous game here, I don't think Nato who are trying to pull Russia into a grand coalition are going to be best pleased.

the yanks wouldnt turn over their satellite information on mh17 to the dutch investigation, why would that be? i expect them to show the info this time if it proves the russian plane was in turkish airspace. however, if they refuse to provide the info then we should be sceptical. regardless, listen to all of them and believe no one.

I think i'm related to Racingqueen.

17 secs eh; blow the shít out of the bastards. Start with the border..

The bit of Turkey that was crossed projects South a bit.  With the course of the planes and they're destination it will be easy to prove either way.  Note that the first Russian story was that it was a SAM strike and the planes were always in Syria.  Then Putin was it was Turkish planes and the Russian plane was hit in Syria (which might be right but the missile would have been fired when it entered Turkey).

The Russians had been pushing the Turks for weeks, they are bombing non-ISIS Turkish affiliates.  The Russians must have known that flying over Turkey to bomb Turkish allies was an absurdly high risk strategy.

They also had rescue teams quickly in the area, so the obviously thought that getting planes shot down was likely at some point.

@jollyswagman don't even go there its 1.00001 that Russian backed rebels shot down MH17 by mistake.  However it was fun seeing the Russian lying machine at work and having a massive fail.

Where's the other pilot btw? I hope those filthy Ottoman twáts are using lube..

Forget the airspace thing that's a substory. Russia have been bombing Turkmen who have nothing to do with ISIS! Obama knows this and is concerned. They are supposed to be up there bombing ISIS targets not taking out Assad opponents on the snide.

The worry is Russia will now smash more Turkmen in response further angering Turkey and therefore, Nato.

heres a good reason for the UK not to join airstrikes

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/downing-russia-jet-should-silence-6892352#ICID=sharebar_twitter

Turkey entered Greek airspace 20 times on one day in July.

The Turkey supported Turkmen are using the Syrian conflict to attack the Kurds (on behalf of Erdogan), who are one of the biggest enemies of IS on the ground.

dave you keep saying "the missile" that brought down the Russian plane "would have been fired when it entered Turkey". I´m wondering how you know this? Do you have friends in Turkey? Deffo not in Russia?

The plane came down inside Syria - not Turkey - indicating a likelihood that it was hit over Syria. From the video you can see that it doesn´t travel too far before plummeting.

they don´t fly so fast once they´ve been hit by a missile you tool.

dave1357 seems angry lads.

"The Turkish UN ambassador, Halit Cevik, told the UN Security Council in a letter that two planes had flow a mile into Turkey for 17 seconds. “Following the violation, plane 1 left Turkish national airspace. Plane 2 was fired at while in Turkish national airspace by Turkish F-16s performing air combat patrolling in the area,” he wrote"

patrolling in the area

Nov 24, 2015 -- 9:15PM, TiptheOdds wrote:

they don´t fly so fast once they´ve been hit by a missile you tool.

what part of the scenario don't you understand - Russian plane flying at 1400mph on a course that will cross a southern part of Turkey.  Told not to cross it.  Continues.  Crosses.  Is engaged.  Is hit by the missile on the Syrian side of the border.

dave it may well be the rebels that shot down mh17, but the yanks wouldnt pass on information that could have proved it one way or the other. someone with an open mind would surely ask why?

you seem to think that the russians have a monopoly on lying. i'm not sure if i find that amusing or just plain daft. they all lie all the time. 

i dont know what happened over turkey/syria, you seem in a rush to blame the russians.

as i said, believe no one.

i do though respect your right to believe what ever you want.

what part of the turkish version of events do you not believe?

btw just for the record the Su-24 has a top speed of 800mph - not 1400mph - hey but let´s not let facts get in the way eh?

17 seconds in foreign territory and the pilots bailed out? That sounds like premature ejection to me.

@jollyswagman I just despair at the inability of people to apply occam's razor.

some idiot on twitter posted a pic of Russian pilot skinned --under a diff title

I wont sleep for days

i dont know y u are getting angry at each other. it's ur dumb govts. u should b having a go at.

dave we should consider all available information before reaching a conclusion and if someone is witholding information we should ask why?

who is to say that the simplest explanation is that the rebels shot it down by mistake? imo its no more complicated to think that pro government forces shot it down by mistake. it is merely your subjective view that rebels shooting it down is the simplest explanation and so you use occam's razor to discount something that you dont want to believe anyway. even if we were to agree that rebels shot it down by mistake is the simplest account and were to apply occam's razor that does not prove this is what happened. we should base our conclusion on what happened on all available evidence and my point is that some evidence has been witheld.

it was shot down by air to air sidewinder missile from Turkish F16

Strange the mood of the British media in reporting this.

Not exactly gleeful.... but certainly not a lot of sympathy for the pilots or the helicopter crew.
And we can all hear the familiar 2 word phrase being shouted by the perpetrators.

The simple fact is that 'downed' aircrew must expect very short shrift when they fall into the clutches of the people that they have been bombing.
It has been thus since WW2...and probably beyond. People don't like being bombed with impunity.

Geneva convention quote:
Attacks on parachutists, in term of the law of war, is when pilots, aircrews, and/or passengers are attacked while descending by parachutes from disabled aircraft during a war. This practice is considered by most militaries around the world to be inhumane, barbaric, and unchivalrous, that it is unnecessary killing (i.e., they would eventually become prisoners of war if parachuted over enemy territory), that it is contrary to fair play, and that military pilots have to be held to a higher standard.
Attacking people parachuting from an aircraft in distress is a war crime under Protocol I in addition to the 1949 Geneva Conventions.

Fine words, indeed. Doesn't apply (as far as I know) to civilians or armed rebels who haven't signed the convention.

stacks of my posts deleted in this thread absolute disgrace.  Think one of them had bad language in it.

That is way beyond moderation, it is political censorship.

Erdogan when boot was on the other foot

Mr Erdogan spoke of Turkey's "rage" at the decision to shoot down the F-4 Phantom on 22 June (2012) and described Syria as a "clear and present threat".
"A short-term border violation can never be a pretext for an attack," he said. The Turkish jet was on a training flight, testing Turkey's radars in the eastern Mediterranean, he said.

Vlad is deploying the 'S-400' surface-to-air missile launcher to Syria.
Has a range of 400km. Here it is in action. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIpqCmEKmNc


In other news this weekend's Turkish Hang-Gliding Championships have been cancelled.

I personally never could really get my head around the logic of the term 'rules of war'
War ain't tennis. You can't overkill somebody, and they are trying to kill each other.
i recall seeing a huge bomb in a museum that hitler dropped in ww2 that didn't detonate. The message said something about breaking conventions (not sure if it was the Geneva one as that might have come after, but they implied some rule of engagement was broken when he dropped it) which completely boggled me noggin.

In other news this weekend's Turkish Hang-Gliding Championships have been cancelled.

I am unsure on putin except he is supporting assad.
He sees the area as one of their area of influence. But still wouldn't trust him, yet he is the one that has really spurred on the eradication of daesh, while the rest mainly sat on their hands as far as getting rid of the raqqa based nutters goes.
Turkey is muslim and Erd' wants to turn syria into another brotherhood of man  ha ha

The US has been on the biggest 'grab the oil and who has the biggest dick(?) swinging' operation in the mid east -
removal of leaders in -
Iraq, Libya, an adventure into Afghanistan   - what next and we are allies of the trigger happy Turks -
fk off. 

the yanks and the saudis are really the pits and are really helping to fk the middle east

but then again obomber is a muslim so he doesnt like the idea of a secular state in syria

imagine if they get rid of syria, and based on the 'successes' quoted above, imagine the fate of damascus et al!!!

France have no intention (SHOCK) of sending in ground troops to Syria. So that's that. Whatever chance they had of introducing Article 5 has now gone whistling into the wind.

Same old same old. They'll be bombing for 30 years and still get nowhere.

that erdo geezer couldn't wait to give permission to shoot that jet down
a lot of votes for him in that

long live jihad erdogan is a slightly less dangerous version of Islamist Imperial aims !!????  its all about hegemony in the region but then you all know that

they support daesh and have helped arm them and allow them free passage up till recently

they want rid of the kurds and assad

not much else to say really

and they want to join the EU?????????????/

Britain would do well to stay out of this one, can't see it though

May as well; mussies will be the ruling majority in Europe soon anyways...

Nothing will change until the US of A get hit hard again. And even then if it's under the cuckoo's watch i wouldn't bet on it..

40 percent of brussels is muslim - where did they get that figure from!!?? It must be wrong - don't they mean the muslim area the bomber came from - anyone seen that article??

Have you heard the one about turkey getting oil at 10 dollars a barrel from daesh!!??  I have.

30% was mentioned last week.

And ye wonder why Erdogan is protecting the Turkomans..

ye can never be sure I just know you need to beware of mad islamic land grabbers
ye know erdogan is another one of them
ye know russia won't like it

ha ha

If the Russian jet was shot down over Syria then it was an act of war. Erdogan is using his membership of NATO to deter Putin from responding militarily.

the question is: if Turkey is supporting IS in any way - with weapons, poison gas or by buying oil - then Turkey should be kicked out of NATO immediately. But when was the last time that happened? And would the yanks agree to losing their bases?

Nah. So Turkey stays in NATO and gets away with supporting nutters, massacring Kurds and risking starting WWIII for no other reason than geography.

maybe it´s time the CIA destabilised Ertdogan...

Amazing how silent the yanks have been over this whole incident, they would know exact placement and the audio of the bomber.

US Foreign Policy has one guiding principle: my enemy´s enemy is my friend.

No matter how fecking dumb that ends up in practice.

turks/isis in a spot of bother, anyone feel sorry for the genocidal ones?