Tax Credits Vote/Debate in Lords

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Lords

Opposition being led by Tory peers which is an indictment of Labour under Corbyn.

Tories understand.....but don't care.

bishops put a regret motion with the help of the tory gov


****

KANTS

Freeview 131 ......a lot of old-stagers on.

its class war simple

Hanlon's razor again brendan.....

Tories are a clever lot. Their sole objective is to turn workers against fellow workers and the unemployed.

They want to cut 4bn and they choose those on tax credits for the hit. They could have brought in increase in minimum wage first if they were even marginally concerned. They are not

Your explanation is its a genuine mistake beacuse they didnt run the figures through some software first they know exactly who is targeted by cutting tax credits, no software model needed.

brown did the same with the 10p tax rate.

they all f*ck it up all the time because it requires a thoroughness few have the appetite for*, and when other institutions do that work for them and point out their mistakes, they risk exposing their carelessness should they amend their policies accordingly.


*supposedly it's actually one of main reasons major impressed thatcher...

how are they going to cut tax credits by 4bn and not affect those receiving tax credits to the tune of 4bn.

You still seem to think it came as a surprise to those implementing it

because they incorrectly believed that those at the poorer end of that spectrum would be make up the money elsewhere.

just like broon with the 10p tax rate.

where is "elsewhere"? like work harder or more hours?

Turn the screw George - turn the screw.

I believe the reasons stated were the introduction of the living wage, the rise in the threshold for the basic rate and more free child care.

defeated

excellent news.

maybe not


- Anyone who becomes eligible for tax credits from now on will suffer the cuts immediately, without the three-year “protection”.

- Anyone already on tax credits will still suffer the cuts, but they’ll pay them through reductions in Universal Credit rather than tax credits.

- The total final amount of cuts will actually be HIGHER than those planned by the Conservatives.

I could never fathom the argument that the tories used to attempt to intimidate the lords with when they called their action unconstitutional.
What's it matter if the very method of getting the votes was by deceit in the first place?
How can a party that said they'd find 12bn in cuts if elected but not say where and have a leader that promised not to touch the wtc if you voted him in then talk about being elected as though it's something of worth?

It's like buying a car and not having any of the specs or payment plan details before signing for it.

Politics is a festering dung heap of (false) representation, sharp practice and out right lies, not democracy.

The prime minister is determined we will address this constitutional issue. A convention exists and it has been broken. He has asked for a rapid review to see how it can be put back in place.

Not taking no for an answer apparently

the lies of the tories and their friends, its a pity 11.3 million sheep voted for them

agreed, surely the sheep knew 12bn of cuts to welfare will fall on someone, probably watching strictly and reading the sun and it passed them by while they raged at immigrants

What we learned about the election was that for all the talk people tend to act differently when they know nobody will know.
They are fundamentally selfish irrespective of the front they portray and a vote for tories tends to be about protecting ones own lot hopefully at the expense of others.
They were played because they didn't know who would suffer (except die in the wool tories, they knew it would never be them) the rest simply assumed those worse off than them would be those sacrificed.

I can't sympathise really, dark patterns exist everywhere due to opportunism that is believed to be virtuous.
If people continue to allow this to occur then they get what they deserve.

the term 'tax credits' is a misnomer;

so called tax credits are just state charity payments

the country cannot afford to continue paying charity payments at today's stupidly high levels - so cutting them makes absolute sense

a fair proportion of tax benefits are being spent on mobile phones, tv's, booze and drugs

much better to stop these payments - harmful to the recipients who then get into negative spiral of relying on benefits - wasteful  in their administration ;

what we need is a much higher tax free personal allowance and slash the welfare budget

raise income tax and N.I. contribution threshold to £20k - £25k  per annum

then every £ earned is available to the poor to spend as they wish


simples.

so they plan to save £4bn on tax credits,but increase the overseas aid budget by £3.5 bn,so much for deficit reduction.

Tax Credits started as a replacement for Family Income Supplement, which was a blunt tool and easily abused. The replacement wsa a better way of giving help to the working poor. In theory it was a good idea.

However, the old chestnut of unintended consequences came along. As employers realised that paying somebody minimum wage made very little difference to the employees overall wealth (as the Tax Credits made up any shortfall) it became normal to pay minimum wage and to lower everyone else's wage (assisted by mass immigration).

So a benefit that was intended to help a few people at the bottom of the ladder became a crutch for lots and lots of people - hence the spiralling cost of the benefit - leading to inevitable cuts.

The tories are trying to get employers to pay better wages - that is the problem. Employers should be forced to pay more based on how many people claim benefit (under Universal Credit, this figure is easily known) and have a minimum wage localised to take account of local costs (ie, rent).

Lmfao
It wouldn't have been so bad had those wtc's been spent on mobiles, TVs and booze had everything not been sold off in the first place.
The result is a balance of payments deficit as all the wtc said go elsewhere because nothing is owned here anymore.

It's actually good for the economy when each person spends all of what they have compared to earning more than an individual can spend and 'invest' the rest seeking returns on it which in turn creates shareholder value maximisation which hurts the economy still further by crushing workers pay and moral.

this guy rips into Andrew Lloyd Webber




http://averypublicsociologist.blogspot.co.uk/2015/10/dear-andrew-lloyd-webbe...

agree dustybin.

the greedy dont realise such actions long term damage themselves....but been saying for ages their own short term thinking will come back to kick them in the teeth.

that was a good read xmoneyx.

the flabby fish lipped boggled eye **** deserved it too.

Here's another 11 of the famous Lords who voted for the cuts, Loyd Webface included

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/11-millionaires-who-voted-for-tory-tax-credit-cuts-in-the-house-of-lords/ar-BBmuilb?li=AAaeUIW

Michelle Mone, Karen Brady, Seb coe probably the most famous

cut my tax credits - next week i'll sign on. so much for keeping people working.