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voting out to shove a hand grenade under Cameron
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I probably don't have the right to vote on this thread, but I hope you stay in 
Probably out but will listen to the debates with interest.
In but I think the Immigration issue will make it an easy victory for the Out campaigners.
Doesn't matter you'll all be brainwashed into voting staying in Cameron is the master at it....see the Scotland vote and general election. He'll use the fear tactic again financial collapse if we leave, we're better together etc . It's a 1.01.
In as long as Cameron can cut a better deal than we presently have.
This must include more say on immigration.
This must include more say on immigration.
Get the fck out..what the hell is up with you inners
OUT.
Let the soppy German and French divvies bring their own countries down if they must. Dont drag ours down with it.
Let the soppy German and French divvies bring their own countries down if they must. Dont drag ours down with it.
I dont know how anyone can be satisfied by unelected people imposing rules/laws over us.
Out. I'd leave the United Nations too - too many dictators on the panel, and sensationally costly.
OUT
Don't let these 'pros' put the fear into you about leaving like the last time this was put to a vote.
I was too young to cast my vote then - but I remember so well the arguments and the 'fear factor' that swung it for the 'pros'.
They'll carry on with their fear-factoring more and more before the vote, just so they can keep hold of the gravy train they're on - and sod the people of the UK.
♫♫ Nothing but a bare faced lie ♫♫
Don't let these 'pros' put the fear into you about leaving like the last time this was put to a vote.
I was too young to cast my vote then - but I remember so well the arguments and the 'fear factor' that swung it for the 'pros'.
They'll carry on with their fear-factoring more and more before the vote, just so they can keep hold of the gravy train they're on - and sod the people of the UK.
♫♫ Nothing but a bare faced lie ♫♫
But the "fear factor" works so well in this country! It secures the "right" result in referenda and general elections. When even the right-wing press start ramping it up I'm sure some of you hardliners will be joining the "in" camp like well-behaved little sheep. You are all in for a shock. Farage is in for the monstering of his life and his politically dumb decision to play a prominent role in "out" will give a massive boost to "in" as this is the chance to see him off for good.
what would an "out" result do for farage?
Unfortunately, you're correct, Die Linke.
The fear factor is the biggest vote swinger in this country because of the apathy so many have about what occurs in their lives that they DO have some say in but they're too lazy/uneducated/thick/misguided to actually THINK about it.
The fear factor is the biggest vote swinger in this country because of the apathy so many have about what occurs in their lives that they DO have some say in but they're too lazy/uneducated/thick/misguided to actually THINK about it.
Still dont get what the fear is, fear of what ? not being controlled by corporates ?
We are already bust, if it goes t1ts up we all move to europe.
We are already bust, if it goes t1ts up we all move to europe.
Ibrahima, it's the insidious nature of 'fear' that makes people stick with what they have rather than use their brains and realise there's more to things than the ones being served up to them.
That's how we ended up staying in this cart-load-of-monkeys in the 70s, albeit by the narrowest of squeaks - when the EEC, as it was known then had far less impact on everyone's life than it does now.
That's how we ended up staying in this cart-load-of-monkeys in the 70s, albeit by the narrowest of squeaks - when the EEC, as it was known then had far less impact on everyone's life than it does now.
Will be a landslide for the 'Quitters'
Will be the end of our participation in, and funding of, the EU. Will bring down Cameron, and the Union.
Can't wait.
Will be the end of our participation in, and funding of, the EU. Will bring down Cameron, and the Union.
Can't wait.
Big point here Tommy, is that historically people will not go out and vote just to preserve what they have. They will however go out and vote to change it. And unlike last time, when we were fed lie after lie after lie, people now know what the EU means for Great Britain.
Voting Yes will not just mean keeping what we have, it will be the green light for the further and irrevocable subsumption of our culture and country into the European Union.
And contrary to what people above believe, a Yes vote will be manna from heaven for UKIP come 2020, just as the No to Independence made the SNP's fortune in electoral terms.
What one should bear in mind is that the Tories might have won an election under the arch-Europhile Cameron, but on the issue of Europe a significant majority of Tory voters are unwavering - they will vote No. And a large part of them will vote No whatever meaningless titbits he is fed by Merkel and Hollande in the meantime.
One should always remember that the NO campaign will be able to point to a lot of the faces that appear imploring us to surrender again to the EU and say "Hang on one minute, wasn't it you who warned us that we had to join the Euro?"
The people of Great Britain were gulled last time this vote happened, there is no way on God's Green Earth it will happen again. Let them lie, let them monger their scares, they simply can not win. We are leaving the EU, and that is that.
Voting Yes will not just mean keeping what we have, it will be the green light for the further and irrevocable subsumption of our culture and country into the European Union.
And contrary to what people above believe, a Yes vote will be manna from heaven for UKIP come 2020, just as the No to Independence made the SNP's fortune in electoral terms.
What one should bear in mind is that the Tories might have won an election under the arch-Europhile Cameron, but on the issue of Europe a significant majority of Tory voters are unwavering - they will vote No. And a large part of them will vote No whatever meaningless titbits he is fed by Merkel and Hollande in the meantime.
One should always remember that the NO campaign will be able to point to a lot of the faces that appear imploring us to surrender again to the EU and say "Hang on one minute, wasn't it you who warned us that we had to join the Euro?"
The people of Great Britain were gulled last time this vote happened, there is no way on God's Green Earth it will happen again. Let them lie, let them monger their scares, they simply can not win. We are leaving the EU, and that is that.
How will it bring down Cameron ?
He has already said he is not staying until the next election !
He has already said he is not staying until the next election !
VOTE NO !
KEEP MORRISONS AND OUR SAUSAGES AND PASTIES !
VOTE YES !
TO LIDL, ALDI AND CHEAPER NOURISHING FOOD INCLUDING CROISSANTS,CRUMPETS AND CHICKEN CASSOULET !
KEEP MORRISONS AND OUR SAUSAGES AND PASTIES !
VOTE YES !
TO LIDL, ALDI AND CHEAPER NOURISHING FOOD INCLUDING CROISSANTS,CRUMPETS AND CHICKEN CASSOULET !
Out, its a failing project and is now nothing more than a gravy train for the political classes
when the EEC was founded, barring the micro state of Luxembourg, all the member states GDP was very similar in size and in fact the Netherlands had the highest GDP of the founding members. When we joined in '73 along with Ireland and Denmark, yet again barring Luxembourg, everyone's GDP was of a similar size.
Since the turn of the century a further 12 countries have been admitted to the EU (almost 50% of the total membership), of those 12 only Iceland had a GDP on par with the original members. The others were mainly ex Soviet bloc states and their economies were in trouble, and as we have seen there was a vast movement of labour to the wealthier countries including an estimated 1 million Poles to the UK alone. Eventually they will expand the EU further to include Ukraine, Turkey, Serbia, Bosnia Herzegovina, Macedonia, Montenegro and Albania and they all have a far inferior GDP to the wealthy EU states. This means that there could be another 140 million people admitted who then have the option to move anywhere they want to work. This is also ignoring the possibility that further eastern bloc states do not also want to join.
Their ambition is to have a state that is as big as the USA, Russia and China and it has been since the end of WW2. If they stuck to the rules that they made themselves then, barring Iceland, none of the latest admissions to the union would have been allowed anyway under the 1993 Copenhagen agreement and none of the others queuing up would get in either. As we have seen with the Dublin agreement and the Schengen treaty if the rules don't suit France or Germany then they can be ignored.
To come is further erosion of the ability of member states to make their own rules. Although the Euro has been an economic failure, they will push on to make it the only currency in the EU, and that includes getting rid of the £. If the UK votes to stay in then the first thing to happen will be making us accept the Euro as a replacement for the £. There will be a European army without doubt which will effectively be controlled by France and Germany as they have the most votes. Did you know that there was not a World War 2? they want it to be taught in schools that it was the European Civil Conflict. Education will also be standardised through out all member states with everyone using the same curriculum. A European health service will also be established to enable any EU citizen to receive treatment in any country free of charge.
The fear factor that is going to be used is trade. We import more from the EU than we export that would not change with a Brexit. Germany would no more stop importing Welsh lamb than we would stop importing their bottled lager.
OUT please.
Since the turn of the century a further 12 countries have been admitted to the EU (almost 50% of the total membership), of those 12 only Iceland had a GDP on par with the original members. The others were mainly ex Soviet bloc states and their economies were in trouble, and as we have seen there was a vast movement of labour to the wealthier countries including an estimated 1 million Poles to the UK alone. Eventually they will expand the EU further to include Ukraine, Turkey, Serbia, Bosnia Herzegovina, Macedonia, Montenegro and Albania and they all have a far inferior GDP to the wealthy EU states. This means that there could be another 140 million people admitted who then have the option to move anywhere they want to work. This is also ignoring the possibility that further eastern bloc states do not also want to join.
Their ambition is to have a state that is as big as the USA, Russia and China and it has been since the end of WW2. If they stuck to the rules that they made themselves then, barring Iceland, none of the latest admissions to the union would have been allowed anyway under the 1993 Copenhagen agreement and none of the others queuing up would get in either. As we have seen with the Dublin agreement and the Schengen treaty if the rules don't suit France or Germany then they can be ignored.
To come is further erosion of the ability of member states to make their own rules. Although the Euro has been an economic failure, they will push on to make it the only currency in the EU, and that includes getting rid of the £. If the UK votes to stay in then the first thing to happen will be making us accept the Euro as a replacement for the £. There will be a European army without doubt which will effectively be controlled by France and Germany as they have the most votes. Did you know that there was not a World War 2? they want it to be taught in schools that it was the European Civil Conflict. Education will also be standardised through out all member states with everyone using the same curriculum. A European health service will also be established to enable any EU citizen to receive treatment in any country free of charge.
The fear factor that is going to be used is trade. We import more from the EU than we export that would not change with a Brexit. Germany would no more stop importing Welsh lamb than we would stop importing their bottled lager.
OUT please.
It might be only a question of semantics for you curious-cat, because as you say Cameron has already announced he will not stand again.
For Cameron however, it is a matter of the most vital importance, legacy-wise, whether he is remembered as the man who won an improbable election and stood down with the country at his command, or as the man who was outed having overseen the Brexit and the break-up of the Union. There is also the small matter of the succession - it is inconceivable that his favoured successor Osborne will get the job if Cameron is forced out after a NO vote.
It is commonly felt that Cameron might recommend an exit were he unable to wheedle the concessions out of Europe that he allegedly seeks, but my own feeling is that he is more likely to adopt such a position if the polls tell him that we will vote Out regardless of his recommendation.
For Cameron however, it is a matter of the most vital importance, legacy-wise, whether he is remembered as the man who won an improbable election and stood down with the country at his command, or as the man who was outed having overseen the Brexit and the break-up of the Union. There is also the small matter of the succession - it is inconceivable that his favoured successor Osborne will get the job if Cameron is forced out after a NO vote.
It is commonly felt that Cameron might recommend an exit were he unable to wheedle the concessions out of Europe that he allegedly seeks, but my own feeling is that he is more likely to adopt such a position if the polls tell him that we will vote Out regardless of his recommendation.
Out
It will collapse anyway sooner or later,but get out before the euro fantasy bankrupts us all.
It will collapse anyway sooner or later,but get out before the euro fantasy bankrupts us all.
It is also a bit rich for Stuart Rose to be the face of the In campaign when only a couple of years ago he was at the forefront of Business for Britain, and for him to claim our security is at risk in the event of our exit, given the EU's repeated attempts to tweak the nose of Putin over the Baltic states and Crimea.
anyone see that article in the independent?
I have lost the authors name.
He bangs on about Celia Malmastrom who leads/represents on the TTIP deal between the eu and usa.
A commissioner I believe.
He says how behind close door there is no proper involvement of governments and mps etc etc etc.
He gets a quote out of her when questioning as he raises these issues, she arrogantly states
'I do not take my mandate from european people'. This is an unelected person by the way.
Despite this - the author is proud to be a european and goes on to lambast xenophobic little englanders.
Has he got his head on straight or what!!!
I have lost the authors name.
He bangs on about Celia Malmastrom who leads/represents on the TTIP deal between the eu and usa.
A commissioner I believe.
He says how behind close door there is no proper involvement of governments and mps etc etc etc.
He gets a quote out of her when questioning as he raises these issues, she arrogantly states
'I do not take my mandate from european people'. This is an unelected person by the way.
Despite this - the author is proud to be a european and goes on to lambast xenophobic little englanders.
Has he got his head on straight or what!!!
Malmastrom is another Euro-fanatic, the prime mover behind the Eurocrats' attempts to inveigle the Swedes into adopting the single currency.
Obviously not satisfied with the damage her fellow multiculturalists have inflicted on Swedish society.
But the eu has kept the peace for 70 years- so shut up!! This is the sort of propaganda you antis will face.
NO it hasn't - NATO has done that!!!
NO it hasn't - NATO has done that!!!
The people coming up with that argument won't like being reminded about the Balkan Wars and Germany's role in kicking them off.
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