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Is it just me or does anyone else find rugby hard to understand? Ref just seems to blow up and give penalties or scrums at random. Do the players understand the rules? If so why do they keep giving penalties away under the posts?
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Can't believe the number of forward passes that are let go.
And yes the rules are arcane. And it's a really daft game (IMO) |
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I've just watched the highlights from the S.A-Japan game after all the talk of it yesterday, and I didn't have a clue what was going on. Right at the end the commentator said how brave Japan were to take a scrum instead of a penalty kick. The rules baffle me, but I have no intention of learning them.
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Who was Mark? If you shout out his name you get to kick it apparently.
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A penalty would have given them a draw but they went for the try, and win..
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As for the rules, refs interpret them differently depending which side of the world you are.
3 points is better than 7 given away, in regards as to pens under the posts.. |
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In Laymans terms, taking that scrum was like going for the star prize in Bullseye.
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 ^^^That's cleared things up for me. |
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I used to watch Worcester and saw endless games when in the dying seconds the side that was leading by 1 or 2 points would give a penalty away under the posts and lose the game.
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You've watched "endless" games live and still don't understand the rules? Players can phuck up in any game, not just rugby..
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No wonder you don't understand...... they are LAWS not rules. Hope this helps.
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It can't be much good watching from the stands, the ref sees something, blows up. probably a pen that gets converted and it changes the game and you've got no chance of seeing what the hell it was for.
Unless you can watch a replay on the telly. Apart from the atmosphere, better off at home. |
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There aren't any.
Hope this helps. |
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The laws of the game are really not that difficult to understand but like most games you can't just tune in and expect to understand them immediately. It's a bit like explaining the off side rule in football to someone who knows little about football. Not that easy. Similarly with football everybody knows the laws of the game in rugby but they will try to gain an edge by playing the referee. A footballer gives away a free kick. It isn't because he doesn't know the rule more often in that situation he just knows that giving away the foul is the lesser of two evils and there is always the chance that the referee doesn't spot it.
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I agree with mememe.
If think the reason they now allow forward passes is that the players would otherwise be completely motionless for the full 80 minutes, instead of the current 79 minutes. |
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On a separate note seeing the number of stoppages for video referee decisions highlights that as a spectator it would be difficult to use in football.
Long live the mistakes. |
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They have tinkered with the game so much re the technical laws over the years for various reasons, many safety, which has changed the game so much. The game used to be fairly simple and the game flowed.
I had a long discussion with a rugby player and coach one day to see how the laws could be improved, so that the game could return to one where the main aim was to score tries and that the risk/reward in the awarding of and kicking of penalties including the relative points from tries, penalties and conversions. We recognised that foul play had to be penalised as it was very often a reason why the flow of the game stopped, but we didn't want it to be as simple as a penalty and 3 points and giving away field position and possibly possession after the restarts after the penalty, whether successful or not. So, the gist of it was to penalise a team for foul play the ref could award a penalty and the wronged team would take the penalty and, if they scored from the penalty they would get the ball back via a put in to a scrum or maybe tap penalty. Some similar rule would be required for a penalty in their own half - to penalise the offenders and get better field position for the wronged team. |
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I'm just waiting for a yellow hanky to come flying on the pitch when one of the 16 refs and TMO's spots a misdemeanour. Then i can truly say we have turned into RFU#NFL..
Wayne Barnes and Joubert are whistle happy and narcissistic enough as it is without TMO's helping them out.. Although having said that, twas joyous to see that serial offender for eons around the fringes get pinged for his sly trip yesterday.. |
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I thought Barnesy did quite well yesterday, but I did chortle when I saw the appointment. The AB's have always blamed him for their exit in 2007.
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I think he complied with the AB's wishes when he gave the first 2442447 pens to them yesterday, HH..
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It seems a lot of the misdemeanors are only spotted by the ref standing a few yards away. In the stands it's very difficult to know why he keeps blowing the whistle.
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Few months ago on a club rugby roundup program there was a referee being interviewed about the laws, mainly iirc correctly the scum laws.
Interviewer reading out a question from a viewer asked - "Can you just clarify? When technically speaking is the ball out of the ruck?" "When I say it is." was his reply.  |
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The refs do allow a lot of technically unlawful play to go ahead. Namely:-
- Forward passes; so many are marginally forward, but the ref plays on - Crooked feed into the scrum. Can't ever remember the ref calling a foul on this; it's been allowed to become like Rugby League - Playing the ball on the floor. The tackled player is supposed to release the ball immediately upon hitting the ground. Almost always they are give a second or two to pass it up from the floor, or place it back on their teammates' side. Technically they should be penalised. Just as in football, with all the pushes, tugs, and "minor" infractions, the rules are always open to interpretation, but if you ran the absolute rule of law over every single moment there would be 100+ penalties in every game. |
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I was always led to believe that the ball had to be thrown in straight for the scrum ie midway between the 2 front rows but can't understand how the side putting the ball in always manages to get the ball.
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You haven't watched Dylan Hartley throwing the ball in then Bix.
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My favourite rugby move is called 'The Conga' where the fat lads make a train across the floor with the one at the back shoving the ball up his jumper so the opposition can't see it. Once they've choo choo chooed across the try line he flops on the floor like a beached whale and claims 5 points.
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bix
21 Sep 15 20:10 I was always led to believe that the ball had to be thrown in straight for the scrum ie midway between the 2 front rows but can't understand how the side putting the ball in always manages to get the ball. Theoretically, the hooker of the side putting the ball into the scrum is closer to the put in (due to the alignment and packing order of the front-rows) and therefore has a greater advantage at the put in. I said 'theoretically' because it's rare for a hooker to strike a the ball in the scrum nowadays because, as has been pointed out, the ball is virtually fed into the feet of the second row nowadays. |
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Thanks for that Roger.
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The hooker of the side putting in the ball also knows exactly when its coming in as he signals with his hand when he wants his scrum half to put it in.
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Rogerthebutler in the 70s City played Country and Country had a tap penalty. All 15 players stood in a line with their backs to the City defenders. The half tapped and passed and all the other players put their arms up the front of their jerseys and all turned and ran for the line. City couldn't tell which one had the ball. It was a try.
Hookers are needed to push. The scrum moves forward over the ball. Hopefully. I doubt any 9 in the history of the game has ever put the ball in straight. Danno - "Playing the ball on the floor. The tackled player is supposed to release the ball immediately upon hitting the ground. Almost always they are give a second or two to pass it up from the floor, or place it back on their teammates' side. Technically they should be penalised." Not true. You are allowed to pass the ball off the ground and you are allowed to place the ball in any direction. You do NOT have to release it immediately you hit the ground. The defender MUST give you time to place it. Jack Hacksaw - doesn't the team that scores from a penalty get the ball back by virtue of it being kicked off to them? Assuming they are competent enough to catch it. |
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in the above, all the laws state that the pass or placement of the ball is done IMMEDIATELY upon being tackled. Frequently "immediately" is allowed to turn into one or two or more seconds. It's this interpretation that is the grey area between legal, allowable & unlawful in the context of the game.
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Here's the relevant law > http://laws.worldrugby.org/?law=15.5
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I was a hooker at a very high standard. Back then, technically I was on a different planet to everyone else at under 21 level, coached at Dulwich by the man who went on to be the British Lions forward coach. This feeding into the second row as they have done in rugby league for decades makes my blood boil. No skill now in being a hooker, just three meathead props in the front row. Sean Fitzpatrick was my hero and to me the best hooker of all time, even he would struggle now to be dominant as the game has changed so much.
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A man amongst men Fitzy.
It was like a throw back to another age to see the scrum half, hooker and number eight in perfect synch for Japan during the South Africa game. The new rules of engagement are near perfect for a hooker who can actually do his job because by the time the Saffers put the squeeze on, the number eight was already exiting the scrum with ball in hand thus totally negating the extra beef of the oppositions pack. |