Will Jeremy Corbyn step down from the leadership contest?

lol anyway that jeremy bloke he isnt that left wing as far as i can see

from where i am looking he seems quite a sensible guy with a lot of sound ideas

Eggy

From their miserable hovels socialists have been telling capitalists that their system is rotten for many decades and the capitalists just blow smoke in their faces from their cigars.

.......the smoke doesn't make it any less rotten.

......it just masks the smell.

get back to oldham you div ET

Corbyn has no new ideas, the world has changed dramatically in the last 10 years, its very worrying.

I'm a long way removed now Hanks. Tell me. Is it still obligatory to sleep with your sister in Clayton and how is your sister?

I'm ashamed to admit that part of me secretly wants Jeremy Corbyn to win the leadership election just to see what happens next, a kind of morbid curiosity.

Paddle – cheers , I’d been reading the article and I was curious as to how the ‘far left infiltrators’ thing was viewed.


Anx – “lol anyway that jeremy bloke he isnt that left wing as far as i can see”  you win the award for quote of the day from me.

Poker – I agree, it’s going to be very interesting to watch the show if he does win the leadership contest.


I see the bleating members of the left had no retort to my hard figures re gbp, public spending and the general lack of austerity (so far). LOL


If you look at this report re his key advisers etc then I’d say it’s a fair estimate that Labour will make a leap back to 1970s socialism if he gets the job
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11764273/Jeremy-Corbyns-team-the-key-figures-backing-the-left-wingers-leadership-bid.html

This may suit your outlook and you have every right to your opinion but no matter how ‘correct’ you feel your opinion is, it has no more weight than the next voter. So unless there’s an economic meltdown I still think Labour will fair even worse in 2020.

The professional suits are sh!t scared of losing their positions.  The Labour party hasn't existed since Kinnock started his hatchet job.

I simply don't accept this term far left "infiltrator" as it the definition of the phrase does not fit. It implies secrecy and hostile intent. The far left have every right to want the labour party to move to the left of where they are now positioned. It might not suit some people but the Blairites don't own the labour party.

People from the right or outsiders could be seen as infiltrating the labour party if they tried to use votes to influence the result of the election as their intent would would be different.

yeah but that implies the labour party represents everyone on the left and ergo the tory party everyone on the right,  which I'm not so sure about.

I think if I was a Labour supporter I would view the socialist worker party, communist party etal about as much part of Labour as I would view the the BNP as part of the Tory party, and therefore it could be fair comment that members of far left or far right parties should be trying to influence the direction of the larger parties.

shouldn't be trying to influence the direction of the larger parties.  - I meant

22 points ahead...crikey....looks like a done deal of polling is to believed.....

.....his time may just of have come.......if he is elected leader...he will be PM.....yep.

he said if he won he would have 50% of his cabinet made up of women.

If women say only have 25% of labour seats then he is going to actively promote sexism by turning down better candidates because they are men.

Why not just appoint the people who are best for the job whether they be men or women?

He has absolutely ZERO chance of ever being elected PM.

This could be the final nail in Labours coffin.

won't last 5 mins even if labour are stupid enough to elect

how can he lead when hardly any of his MPs support him ?

...I am no fan of labour but I disagree.........

....when the systemic financial system meltdown comes....which it will..it is a mathematical certainty..........there are more and more markers each and every day......

..who are.the conservatives going to blame this time......can't be labour....cos according to Cameron / Osborne all the hard work of repair has been done and we "just have to stay the course".......

...labour won't have been in power for the best part of a decade........can't blame them...they have had no impact on policy......

....if Corbyn is elected ....he will be PM.

Personally I reckon the only way a hard left gov could get into power is via an economic meltdown that would make 2008/09 look like a mere blip.

But if we end up with a hard left government with him or similar in charge, have people considered the potential capital flight and brain drain?

Re income groups the upper 1% pay about 24% of the income tax, the upper 10% pay about 53% and the upper 50% pay nearly 90% of the income tax.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8417205.stm
It wouldn’t take that many of them leaving for it to start biting giv tax receipts in a big way.

Many in the top 10% aren’t just going to take it on the chin if labour get into power and head towards 1970s income tax rates (83% top rate , 98% investment income rate, 33% base rate)
If you look at his advisors I reckon that’s where they’ll head if he’s in power.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11764273/Jeremy-Corbyns-team-the-key-figures-backing-the-left-wingers-leadership-bid.html

If I had anything to do with it the Lord Ashcrofts and Bono's of this world would have their citizenship stripped from them if they want to be tax exiles.

If Corbyn was elected on a certain platform he would have a mandate to carry out his policies including higher taxes for the more wealthy and if anybody did not like it they know where the door is.

It's ok having that attitude until your income tax receipts drop by 20%, then what? Up taxes for everyone else and keep squeezing the pips??
Given the rate of immigration since 1997 it's not beyond the realms that a signif number of the higher rate tax payers could leave in a few years considering how the world has changed since the 70s and plenty fkd off even then.

The labour leadership process is set up to be compromised,thousands of non labour people are paying their £3 to get Corbyn elected hoping to derail them.The effect they're having on the voting is hardly surprising given the lack lustre nature of Burnham & Coopers campaign,are they really the best that  Labour have got to offer?

I would look at it differently. The people who might be taxed more and or not able to take advantage of aggressive tax avoidance should take some satisfaction that they are contributing a bit more to their country. They are not losing any money because its not their money until they pay their taxes whatever that may be at any time.
I don't believe people as you say might leave the country. If they did want to leave they are the type of people the country can live without. I would like to see their citizenship removed so they cant just return when they want.

I read your last post and weep paddle. I pour my brilliance into your ear at regular intervals and it falls out of the other side of your head. Can you not invest in a plug? Not a butt plug I hasten to add.

I don't see what is wrong EO in taking some parts of socialism and joining it with capitalism. Surely that happened under recent times when the banks were affectively nationalised and socialism had to come to the rescue of pure capitalism.

.....socialise losses.when capitalism....not that it is proper survival of the fittest capitalism.....gets its one way free bets wrong.....

....never seems to happen with profits  though....strange that.

Socialism had to do no such thing paddle. If there was a need for interventionism by socialism it came several years earlier when it was still possible to address the issue relatively painlessly. At all levels there was no pure capitalism for many years. LTCM in 98. Clinton advocating affirmative action and telling banks to lend to people who couldn't pay the money back. The list is endless of politicians interfering.

Privatise the gains and socialise the losses was a motto for idiots.

...the right seems to conveniently forget that it's oh so precious system and the huge losses it had made had to be rescued by absorbing said losses between society as a whole....

Bullshiit.

Utter utter drivel eet

They conned politicians unable to grasp the heist. More fool them.

It is a fact....an inescapable fact.....

...with Greece being the latest example.......

...

Always happy to be corrected by a lucid and informative correction eggy and there is a first for everything even if you have set the bar high. Utter drivel you say:

Enlighten me but don't expect me to pull my punches. Have you got your gumshield in and your cup on?

....you had no reply last night eet.....

I am still waiting for a "lucid and informative" reply on that thread.

...other than "capitalists blowing smoke in the face of socialists"

Greece is an inescapable fact of what Eggy?

Always happy to oblige Eggy. What was your point?

The bankers and their wealthy friends held the whole nation hostage and handed over the biggest blackmail note in modern history which ended up being paid in full by me, you and everyone else. It was an inverted form of socialism but it was still socialism which the bankers and their friends turned to when they needed help. I think its more than justified to expect something back.

That ship has sailed paddle. You want something back? You take it when they come cap in hand. You don't turn round nearly a decade later and say, "about that time we did you a favour".

It's a few posts up Eggy in which you say that capitalism is rotten. Crony capitalism which we have at the moment is certainly rotten. Capitalism is also to some extent rotten. But as Churchill said look at the alternatives. Capitalism proved over many decades to be rotten, sometimes inefficient and often disreputable but it made everybody richer. Socialism/communism wherever it got its hooks in made people poorer. Sure that poverty and misery was shared equally by all but the party apparatchiks but shared poverty was both its redeeming feature and largest vice.

It was a bankrupt philosophy intellectually and even while casting no more than a cursory eye towards its travails capitalism bankrupted socialism in reality ever so easily.

Next question.

..Greece is an inescapable fact of......and example of.....rampant one way free bet nothing to lose capitalism....

An example of a society...and the ordinary population of that soceity......having to absorb the financial losses of decisions made by the capitalist elite to lend to that populations government KNOWING that sais government and by extension the people's ruled by that government could never pay the monies back......

....why would such highly educated master of the financial world universal types lend such vast amounts to a country knowing said country could never pay back.......

...because they knew they would be bailed out on any losses that hadn't already been passed on as CDO's by those sharing the same curency.....namely the taxpayers of Europe........Germany and France primarily......

.....the taxpayers of said countries are simply subsidising the one way free bets of their own countries banks and financial elites.

.....and just as populations all round the globe did in 2008 and are continuing to do under the guise of financial probity.

I don't personally want anything back! I was just saying....and pointing out the irony of the situation which would involve a lot less financial loses for the wealthy under Corbyn than it would have if the banks were not nationalised.

I don't think anyone would say sharing poverty is a good thing. But how can sharing prosperity a bit more equally be a bad thing?

...you are missing the point entirely eet.....

...I have never and am not advocating socialism.

You obviously either didn't read or understand my earlier post which you described as drivel Eggy. There was a clear precedent set in 98 with LTCM being bailed out which sent a clear message to such investors. Gone were the days where your company sank with malinvestment but only if you were too big to fail. So private banks piled debt onto countries like Greece betting that the effects of default would be so great that instead of them being on the hook it would as also happened in 2008 be taxpayers. These people don't take decisions in an intellectual vaccuum and their gamble paid off.

I made the point circa 2009 to explain things. Think Karate Kid. You walk on the left side of the road where everybody knows that if you fucck up you pay the price in terms of your job, your company, your shareholders and investors losing their money and any combination of them losing their liberty. Okay. Here you can rely on oversight from a variety of sources. Or you can walk on the right side of the road with proper Glass Steagel type oversight and again. Okay. Walk in the middle of the road with lax oversight and the assumption that if it goes t1ts up that somebody will bail you out and pretty soon like grape. You go squish.

Or rather somebody does and it isn't you.

Well take your dancing shoes off Eggy and explain clearly what you are advocating.

Capitalism......pure and simple.

The devil in the sharing prosperity is in the detail paddle.

This is all a bit too complicated for me. I know just enough about some things to be dangerous! Where I come from you pay your debts and don't go crying to mummy and daddy looking a pull out.

And by pure and simple what do you mean exactly? Lassez fairre of the libertarian perspective embracing the Austrian economic perspective?

Are you googling Eggy? It's not a trap. Honest.

......forget all the different schools and economic philosophies eet......

....capitalism...pure and simple......you succeed or fail on the quality of the goods or service you provide and the efficiency with which you provide said goods and services.......

...your success and failure should not be dependant on your size or the social or political consequences of your failure......

..or your access ......to thanks to political connection and favour.....of capital at preferential....almost zero cost....rates.

....obviously not eet......

...common sense will suffice for me.

Without putting words in your mouth it seems you rail against crony capitalism which if my political philosophy can be distilled down to one principle that is the crucial fight of the 21st century.

...chop chop eet.....

....your not googling Adam smith are you......

....on that we can agree eet....

Just too late to hit home. Eggy.

I told you I'd win you round. You seem a smart guy so I knew it wouldn't be long.

.hhhhmmmmmmm.

I detect a hint of doubt still Eggy? Other than point out that in less than the golden hour I turned your denouncements of my "drivel" to having you eating out of the palm of my hand. Not a record but not far off. Will nobody present a real challenge? Facts and Studybore have signed themselves into a clinic. I feel like Alexander.

.....it is still a fact that the bad....reckless....contrived....decisions of the financial elite and those that are in control of all money issuance.......who support them.......

.....and the financial losses that resulted as a consequence of those decisions were socialised........

......capitalism's losses were bailed out by socialism....most notably since 2008 .....and Greece 2010 to 2015....but as you mention before then as well and actually as far back as the inception of the fractional reserve Ponzi system......

...(war being the loss socialiser of last resort)......

........seems to me Corbyn simply wants the other side as well.......share the profits as well......doesn't seem that unreasonable......if you are getting the downside why not get some of the up.......

.....we are all in it together after all.......

.....hhhmmmmm..sounds familiar.........where have I heard that before????????

...a small fox is looking at me through the patio doors....he wants some bread and honey.....yep.

Ahhaaaa...got a rubbishy pic of the fella....will post it tommoro

Which begs the question why you denounced as drivel very similar sentiments I expressed earlier?

1042 eet...

In response to paddltoe....

...you said socialism had to do no such thing.

And 1044

....bullshiit....was your response

I'm a firm believer in pure capitalism but I alluded to the fact there and then in my later post that socialism/interventionism could have it's place as long as it is done consistently and early enough. Running round like Chicken Little screaming for bailouts when the wheels come off is both immoral and as I said socialising the losses which is venal.

I called bullshiit on your comment that socialism had to sustain the losses. It didn't. I also called bullshiit on your suggestion that it was the "right" when as you have now agreed this amounts to no more than crony capitalism and not what any right wing posters on here advocate. And as I pointed out earlier the world and his dog had seen that capitalism had retreated a decade earlier to be replaced by cronyism.

I see.

...thanks for coming round to my way of thinking.

..I knew I'd win you round. Your a smart guy so I knew it wouldn't be long.

Arguments with EO are not supposed to end like this. Getting EO to bow on the altar of an opposing argument is exceptionally rare. 

Congratulations Egner.

why would he step down if he wins surely better to not bother running in the first place

why would he care about a no confidence motion of MPs when it is not MPs deciding the election ? what confidence would the members have in the MPs if they disown him ?

they will just have to put up with him if he wins  , otherwise the party will split like 1931

Paddle,   “I would look at it differently. The people who might be taxed more and or not able to take advantage of aggressive tax avoidance should take some satisfaction that they are contributing a bit more to their country. They are not losing any money because its not their money until they pay their taxes whatever that may be at any time.
I don't believe people as you say might leave the country. If they did want to leave they are the type of people the country can live without. I would like to see their citizenship removed so they cant just return when they want.”

That is where we differ completely.
You seem to have a socialist statist mind set where you see everything as belonging to the state and we should be grateful for what we allowed to hold onto.
I have the opposite view, anything I earn or possess is mine first and foremost and will be passed on to my descendants, taxes are just a cut that the government are demanding and I will always seek reduce that amount . I take no satisfaction at all in handing over 40% of some my earnings (and I’ve yet to speak to someone on higher rate that does), especially when I am vehemently opposed to how some of that money is spent and ‘distributed’.
People left in the 70s and are leaving now for a better life elsewhere, this would just accelerate under a Corbyn style administration and I would probably be one of them.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1579345/Biggest-brain-drain-from-UK-in-50-years.html
I’m not sure how you think “they are the type of people the country can live without” if a very noticeable number leave given how much the economy depends upon them via their skills and the taxes they contribute already.
E.g. We could lose the bottom 5 million and the country/economy wouldn’t even pause, if we lost 5 million off the top end , the economy would lose a massive chunk of it’s tax receipts, let alone the lost intellectual capital, how  would that pan out? 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8417205.stm
The hard fact is most people have no desire to be Boxer in Animal Farm and don’t strive to get on just hand most of it over so useless cnts down the road who didn’t want to bother can have an easier time of it.

A growing wave of support for Corbyn. A proper socialist in the mould of Tony Benn.

Jeremy now 13/8 2nd favourite with 365, the other 3 Blairites on the drift, Jeremy the the truth will be victorious happy and glorious.

paddletoe   

29 Jul 15 01:42 
Joined:   24 Jul 07      | Topic/replies: 9,371  | Blogger: paddletoe's blog   

Arguments with EO are not supposed to end like this. Getting EO to bow on the altar of an opposing argument is exceptionally rare. 

Congratulations Egner.


......thanks paddletoe..........somehow though I doubt EO sees it quite like that.......!!!!!!!

...though if nothing else I was up late enough to see our resident fox......and help him on his way with a honey sandwich....the handsome furry fella.

...now fav with 365 and Hills. Will be fav across the board by end of today

Don't be taken in paddle. The more intelligent ones see which way the wind blows and fall into line. It's a bit like a Sergeant Major telling his slovenly charges to fall in. Some of the wags may say they are only doing it because they like standing to attention. They can explain it however they like as long as they do as they're told.

He must be minted. A trouser press in every hotel room in the country.

...you may or may not be more or less intelligent than average EO....

..but as paddletoe has commented......your bow to the altar of an opposing argument was quite welcome....thankfully you eventually saw sense and fell into line!

...new poll puts Burnham in third:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11769764/Jeremy-Corbyn-takes-20-point-lead-in-Labour-poll-with-Andy-Burnham-in-third-place.html

lol corbyn is 2.6 on the exchange, I'd like to be a fly on wall at labour party central

PLP Nominations for Jeremy Corbyn

Diane Abbott MP for Hackney North and Stoke Newington
Rushanara Ali MP for Bethnal Green and Bow
Margaret Beckett MP for Derby South
Richard Burgon MP for Leeds East
Dawn Butler MP for Brent Central
Ronnie Campbell MP for Blyth Valley
Sarah Champion MP for Rotherham
Jeremy Corbyn MP for Islington North
Jo Cox MP for Batley and Spen
Neil Coyle MP for Bermondsey and Old Southwark
Jon Cruddas MP for Dagenham
Clive Efford MP for Eltham
Frank Field MP for Birkenhead
Louise Haigh MP for Sheffield, Heeley
Kelvin Hopkins MP for Luton North
Rupa Huq MP for Ealing Central and Acton
Imran Hussain MP for Bradford East
Huw Irranca-Davies MP for Ogmore
Sadiq Khan MP for Tooting
David Lammy MP for Tottenham
Clive Lewis MP for Norwich South
Rebecca Long-Bailey MP for Salford and Eccles
Gordon Marsden MP for Blackpool South
John McDonnell MP for Hayes and Harlington
Michael Meacher MP for Oldham West and Royton
Grahame Morris MP for Easington
Chi Onwurah MP for Newcastle Upon Tyne Central
Kate Osamor MP for Edmonton
Tulip Siddiq MP for Hampstead and Kilburn
Dennis Skinner MP for Bolsover
Cat Smith MP for Lancaster and Fleetwood
Andrew Smith MP for Oxford East
Gareth Thomas MP for Harrow West
Emily Thornberry MP for Islington South and Finsbury
Jon Trickett MP for Hemsworth
Catherine West MP for Hornsey and Wood Green


...some of the usual suspects you would expect...but others who "lent" him their vote in order to get him in the contest and have the widest possible debate......

...presumably they thought he didn't stand a chance of winning!!!..yikes.

Good man Eggy.

Blairites starting to have meltdowns.......will be so interesting if he wins.....

..and to see him as PM.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/who-are-the-morons-who-nominated-jeremy-corbyn-for-the-labour-leadership-contest-10406527.html

well interesting if he wins the leadership anyway

JC now outright favourite with most bookies , from a 100-1 outsider to the hot fav he is now on an unstoppable charge which on September 12th will see him elected as the new leader of the Labour Party.

JC....has the messiah returned?

@egner

These are the 18 Labour MPs who presumably lent their vote to Corbyn to get him nominated. It's based on them abstaining on the welfare bill which Corbyn opposed:

Rushanara Ali MP for Bethnal Green and Bow
Margaret Beckett MP for Derby South
Ronnie Campbell MP for Blyth Valley
Sarah Champion MP for Rotherham
Jo Cox MP for Batley and Spen
Neil Coyle MP for Bermondsey and Old Southwark
Jon Cruddas MP for Dagenham
Clive Efford MP for Eltham
Frank Field MP for Birkenhead
Rupa Huq MP for Ealing Central and Acton
Huw Irranca-Davies MP for Ogmore
Gordon Marsden MP for Blackpool South
Chi Onwurah MP for Newcastle Upon Tyne Central
Andrew Smith MP for Oxford East
Gareth Thomas MP for Harrow West
Emily Thornberry MP for Islington South and Finsbury
Jon Trickett MP for Hemsworth
Catherine West MP for Hornsey and Wood Green

Beckett has already admitted being a moron. I hope she resigns her seat on principle that the people of Derby South should be represented by a non-moron. And some of the others too.
10 UKIP MPs by Easter next year!

i know it's incredibly difficult to get rid of a labour leader and traditionally they're very reluctant do so but surely he has little chance of making it to 2020 even if he wins

how does it work if most of the MP's are against him but is popular with labor party members?

see:ed milliband

pawras. what happens is they wait until there is an excuse to "lose confidence" in him and then he is gone.

Since he is friends with terrorists and has allegedly failed to act on child abuse in his own constituency I think it wont be too long before a reason to challenge his leadership surfaces. They will of course wait a few months not to be too blatant about it.

I know he can't run from this
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11758612/Jeremy-Corbyn-accused-of-inaction-over-paedophile-scandal.html

I dont know pawras,Harriet Harman seemed to sail through her litte bit of trouble on that subject serenely enough.

Jeremy - finally a voice of reason.

Pray god he gets through to 2020 unscathed so the people can render their verdict on just how reasonable his voice is. I'd venture he's a bit more sane than you and a little less sane than that fella who regaled us with tales of alien encounters.

But looking on the bright side. If he did manage to convince the electorate to vote him in he'll be about 90 halfway through so people won't know if it's the madness or alzheimers talking.

EO fancies his chances again......he has recovered from his last bruising encounter......bit of ice and a few stiff Lavagulin's...

..and he is back in the game...

paddletoe   

29 Jul 15 01:42 Joined:   24 Jul 07      | Topic/replies: 9,381  | Blogger: paddletoe's blog   

Arguments with EO are not supposed to end like this. Getting EO to bow on the altar of an opposing argument is exceptionally rare. 

Congratulations Egner.

..paddletoe can be ref again.....

..come on EO...whats left in the locker.....