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12 Jul 15
15:51
Joined:
Date Joined:
20 Dec 10
He isn't armed, he mocks you when you speak, he doesn't attack you, but you stab him, 8 times, and he dies.
It took 3 days for the jury of 10 women and 2 men to find the accused not guilty of murder, and giving a conviction of manslaughter by reason of loss of control.
Laydeez and gennulmen of chit chat...
What would your decision be on the bare facts, considering that the accused carried a knife to his home to 'speak' to him.
If you know of the case, or try to google it, don't let on what happened until after the verdict.
When I shall post more details of the case.
No long stories, or further questions, as the accused was plainly guilty.
The first 12 votes by different forumites will formulate the verdict.
For the sake of would be luvvie jurors, neither of them are black or asian.
You lot, the jury, are instructed to vote with one word only.
Guilty of murder, or manslaughter?
One word posts only, other posts of more than one word will not be counted as a jurors vote.
I shall now retire to my chambers for a short while.
It took 3 days for the jury of 10 women and 2 men to find the accused not guilty of murder, and giving a conviction of manslaughter by reason of loss of control.
Laydeez and gennulmen of chit chat...
What would your decision be on the bare facts, considering that the accused carried a knife to his home to 'speak' to him.
If you know of the case, or try to google it, don't let on what happened until after the verdict.
When I shall post more details of the case.
No long stories, or further questions, as the accused was plainly guilty.
The first 12 votes by different forumites will formulate the verdict.
For the sake of would be luvvie jurors, neither of them are black or asian.
You lot, the jury, are instructed to vote with one word only.
Guilty of murder, or manslaughter?
One word posts only, other posts of more than one word will not be counted as a jurors vote.
I shall now retire to my chambers for a short while.
Show More
I'm sure there was more to this case that your 13 line summing up yet you want people to deliver a verdict.
No long stories, or further questions, as the accused was plainly guilty.
presumably you want the chitchat jury to convict the defendant of murder?
you cannot judge it on the "bare facts" - that is a very bad way to try and deliver justice.
presumably you want the chitchat jury to convict the defendant of murder?
you cannot judge it on the "bare facts" - that is a very bad way to try and deliver justice.
Voting so far:
Manslaughter - 1
Murder - 0
Manslaughter - 1
Murder - 0
Aren't most people going to be familiar with the case?
If you know of the case, or try to google it, don't let on what happened until after the verdict.
Voting so far:
Manslaughter - 1
Murder - 0
Voting so far:
Manslaughter - 1
Murder - 0
Voting so far:
Manslaughter - 1
Murder - 1
Manslaughter - 1
Murder - 1
I don't know of this case, btw, and haven't googled it. Will be interested to find out.
I dont know the case but i can guess it will be manslaughter as the world is full of luvvies.
Voting so far:
Manslaughter - 1
Murder - 2
Manslaughter - 1
Murder - 2
On the bare facts as presented in the OP one might think that if the assailant went armed with a gun and shot him 8 times, or a hammer and hit him 8 times, then it would be prima facie evidence of intent to cause harm; therefore murder.
think as the OP is well known for being very one sided you have to take into account that there is likely to be many mitgating circumstances he hasnt posted.
on that basis it has to be manslaughter
on that basis it has to be manslaughter
The OP posted this..ffs
For the sake of would be luvvie jurors, neither of them are black or asian.
Voting so far:
Manslaughter - 2
Murder - 5
For the sake of would be luvvie jurors, neither of them are black or asian.
Voting so far:
Manslaughter - 2
Murder - 5
Voting so far:
Manslaughter - 3
Murder - 5
Manslaughter - 3
Murder - 5
Voting so far:
Manslaughter - 3
Murder - 6
Manslaughter - 3
Murder - 6
Voting so far:
There's been an error in counting
Manslaughter - 2
Murder - 7
3 votes left
There's been an error in counting
Manslaughter - 2
Murder - 7
3 votes left
lfc1971 12 Jul 15 18:17 Joined: 06 Nov 11 | Topic/replies: 4,853 | Blogger: lfc1971's blog
it will depend on who was murdered.
Lol if they were murdered it's murder.
Just saying
it will depend on who was murdered.
Lol if they were murdered it's murder.
Just saying
And taking a knife is pre meditated so murder.
Voting so far:
There's been an error in counting
Manslaughter - 2
Murder - 10
So now we string the killer up?
Or do we?
Let me throw some things into the mix:
1. Neither the killer nor the victim were under the influence of alcohol or drugs.
2. They are both over the age of 18.
3. One of them is 45 years older that the other.
Does anybody who did as they were asked, and voted with just one word, want to change their mind now?
I'll be back in about an hour.
There's been an error in counting
Manslaughter - 2
Murder - 10
So now we string the killer up?
Or do we?
Let me throw some things into the mix:
1. Neither the killer nor the victim were under the influence of alcohol or drugs.
2. They are both over the age of 18.
3. One of them is 45 years older that the other.
Does anybody who did as they were asked, and voted with just one word, want to change their mind now?
I'll be back in about an hour.
I need to know more, then I might change my mind.
I'm going to bed now, will look in tomorrow.
I'm going to bed now, will look in tomorrow.
Yes, thinking about it it would still be murder. This person meant to kill the victim.
I need to know more.
I need to know more.
Money Tree cost me thousands!! 12 Jul 15 22:42
The victim is a convicted pedo
If this was the case then I would suggest it makes it pre-meditated and, therefore, murder.
e.g. you wouldn't go and front up an unarmed Fred West, carrying a knife, and stab him 8 times without having considered that scenario as a likely outcome.
Murder
The victim is a convicted pedo
If this was the case then I would suggest it makes it pre-meditated and, therefore, murder.
e.g. you wouldn't go and front up an unarmed Fred West, carrying a knife, and stab him 8 times without having considered that scenario as a likely outcome.
Murder
If you know of the case, or try to google it, don't let on what happened until after the verdict.
When I shall post more details of the case.
Money Tree didn't bother reading that ^^^
The Guardian were in such a rush to get a bit of white crime on their website they said it was Canning Town.
Sarah Sands, 32, stabbed 77-year-old Michael Pleasted eight times, in Drew Road, Silvertown, following a heated confrontation over allegations that he had abused three boys.
Sands was today cleared of murder but was found guilty of manslaughter following a two week trial at the Old Bailey.
Pleasted was found dead on November 28 last year – two weeks after he had appeared at Thames Magistrates Court charged with sexually assaulting two boys under the age of 18.
He had also been accused of assaulting another boy under the age of 18 and had previously been jailed for other child sex offences.
During the trial, jurors heard how Sands had gone to confront the pensioner over the alleged attacks, after drinking two bottles of wine and a bottle of brandy.
She was armed with a knife, hammer and wrench, but told the court that she had not intended on harming him.
The court heard how Sands had taken the knife out during the heated confrontation during which she tried to convince the salesman to plead guilty to the sex offences.
Sands told jurors that Pleasted had “smirked” at her before accusing his alleged victims of being liars and complaining that his life had been ruined.
She said: “We were staring at each other, I was poking him. He was looking dead in my face and he was just standing there and I don’t think either of us realised what had happened.”
She added that once she realised what she had done and after seeing spots of blood on her jumper, she panicked and made off.
Sands handed herself into police hours after the incident but claimed during a police interview that she had no idea he had died.
The court heard how she referred to the pensioner as “the devil” and told officers during an interview: “[b]Who houses a paedophile on an estate? He was asking for trouble.”
Detective Chief Inspector Dave Whellams of the Homicide and Major Crime Command led the investigation said: “CCTV footage clearly pieced together the movements of Sands in this case and confirmed her involvement in the manslaughter of Mr Pleasted at his home address. Forensic evidence found on the knife she was carrying also linked her to the scene of the brutal attack.”
The jury deliberated for three days before clearing Sands of murder.
Sentencing has been adjourned and is due to take place on a date to be fixed in September.
Judge Nicholas Cooke QC told the court an inquiry was to be held into the decision to bail Pleasted following the two child sex offence charges, adding the jurors were clearly “troubled by the background” of the case.[/b]
The Guardian report says that she said to the police 'He’s ****g harmless now, ain’t he?'
The Guardian report says he was was living under another name, Robin Moult.
The Guardian didn't report she was carrying the hammer and the wrench.
It was Silvertown, not Canning Town.
The Guardian didn't say she drank two bottles of wine.
Top paper, the Guardian.
Ask Facts.
When I shall post more details of the case.
Money Tree didn't bother reading that ^^^
The Guardian were in such a rush to get a bit of white crime on their website they said it was Canning Town.
Sarah Sands, 32, stabbed 77-year-old Michael Pleasted eight times, in Drew Road, Silvertown, following a heated confrontation over allegations that he had abused three boys.
Sands was today cleared of murder but was found guilty of manslaughter following a two week trial at the Old Bailey.
Pleasted was found dead on November 28 last year – two weeks after he had appeared at Thames Magistrates Court charged with sexually assaulting two boys under the age of 18.
He had also been accused of assaulting another boy under the age of 18 and had previously been jailed for other child sex offences.
During the trial, jurors heard how Sands had gone to confront the pensioner over the alleged attacks, after drinking two bottles of wine and a bottle of brandy.
She was armed with a knife, hammer and wrench, but told the court that she had not intended on harming him.
The court heard how Sands had taken the knife out during the heated confrontation during which she tried to convince the salesman to plead guilty to the sex offences.
Sands told jurors that Pleasted had “smirked” at her before accusing his alleged victims of being liars and complaining that his life had been ruined.
She said: “We were staring at each other, I was poking him. He was looking dead in my face and he was just standing there and I don’t think either of us realised what had happened.”
She added that once she realised what she had done and after seeing spots of blood on her jumper, she panicked and made off.
Sands handed herself into police hours after the incident but claimed during a police interview that she had no idea he had died.
The court heard how she referred to the pensioner as “the devil” and told officers during an interview: “[b]Who houses a paedophile on an estate? He was asking for trouble.”
Detective Chief Inspector Dave Whellams of the Homicide and Major Crime Command led the investigation said: “CCTV footage clearly pieced together the movements of Sands in this case and confirmed her involvement in the manslaughter of Mr Pleasted at his home address. Forensic evidence found on the knife she was carrying also linked her to the scene of the brutal attack.”
The jury deliberated for three days before clearing Sands of murder.
Sentencing has been adjourned and is due to take place on a date to be fixed in September.
Judge Nicholas Cooke QC told the court an inquiry was to be held into the decision to bail Pleasted following the two child sex offence charges, adding the jurors were clearly “troubled by the background” of the case.[/b]
The Guardian report says that she said to the police 'He’s ****g harmless now, ain’t he?'
The Guardian report says he was was living under another name, Robin Moult.
The Guardian didn't report she was carrying the hammer and the wrench.
It was Silvertown, not Canning Town.
The Guardian didn't say she drank two bottles of wine.
Top paper, the Guardian.
Ask Facts.
She was armed with a knife, hammer and wrench, but told the court that she had not intended on harming him.
Aye sure. FFS.
You could argue that she has done society a favour but tmm it's still murder.
Aye sure. FFS.
You could argue that she has done society a favour but tmm it's still murder.
Sounds like one of Slippy's ex's..
Still murder btw.
Still murder btw.
Obviously, she's white.
Anybody with any sense moved out years ago.
Anybody with any sense moved out years ago.
'She befriended him and made him hot meals' - The Guardian.
The OP posted this..ffs
For the sake of would be luvvie jurors, neither of them are black or asian.
the question asked was "what colour was the murdered person ??", not what wasn't the colour of either.
hth
For the sake of would be luvvie jurors, neither of them are black or asian.
the question asked was "what colour was the murdered person ??", not what wasn't the colour of either.
hth
had the victim been convicted of any offence involving child sexual abuse - I can only see charges?
Yes
The Guardian
A woman who stabbed a convicted paedophile to death while he was on bail for abusing young boys has been cleared of murder but found guilty of manslaughter.
Sarah Sands, 32, took the law into her own hands within weeks of hearing that her neighbour, 77-year-old Michael Pleasted, had sexually abused three children.
On the evening of 28 November last year she armed herself with a knife and stabbed Pleasted eight times at his flat in Canning Town, east London.
After the “determined and sustained attack”, he crawled from his living room and collapsed in his hallway where he bled to death.
Within hours, Sands handed herself in to police, telling an officer: “Who houses a ****g paedophile on an estate, like, seriously? He was, like, asking for trouble.”
She explained she had thought Pleasted was just a nice old man, adding: “He’s ****g harmless now, ain’t he?”
At the time, Pleasted was on bail awaiting trial at Snaresbrook crown court on two charges of sexual assault on two children aged under 13. Police were investigating a further allegation he had abused a third boy.
The Old Bailey heard that Pleasted had a string of convictions for sexually assaulting boys between 1970 and 1991.
The serial child abuser, who also went by the name of Robin Moult, had a total of 24 previous convictions for sexual offences before he met the children he was accused of molesting last year.
He served sentences of between nine months and six years for sex crimes which included indecent assault on a male over 16, indecent assault on a male under 16, indecent assault on a male under 14 and buggery.
But before the fresh allegations emerged, Pleasted had become a well known community figure running a bric-a-brac stall from a local shop, the court heard.
Sands had befriended him and used to go round to his flat with home-cooked meals.
She sobbed in the witness box as she insisted she had not meant to hurt Pleasted when she went to his flat armed with a knife on the night of the killing after drinking a bottle of brandy.
She told jurors she had gone there to plead with him to admit his crimes and spare his young accusers from having to go to court.
But when he answered the door, he ignored her request and just “smirked” as he told her the boys were all liars who had ruined his life.
Sands said: “I was frightened. It was not how it was meant to go. He was meant to listen to me.”
The jury of 10 women and two men deliberated for three days before clearing her of murder and convicting her of manslaughter by reason of loss of control.
Sentencing was adjourned for reports and will take place on a date to be fixed in September.
The trial judge, Nicholas Cooke QC, told the jury that an inquiry was under way into the decision to bail Pleasted, adding that the jurors were clearly “troubled by the background” of the case.
The Guardian
A woman who stabbed a convicted paedophile to death while he was on bail for abusing young boys has been cleared of murder but found guilty of manslaughter.
Sarah Sands, 32, took the law into her own hands within weeks of hearing that her neighbour, 77-year-old Michael Pleasted, had sexually abused three children.
On the evening of 28 November last year she armed herself with a knife and stabbed Pleasted eight times at his flat in Canning Town, east London.
After the “determined and sustained attack”, he crawled from his living room and collapsed in his hallway where he bled to death.
Within hours, Sands handed herself in to police, telling an officer: “Who houses a ****g paedophile on an estate, like, seriously? He was, like, asking for trouble.”
She explained she had thought Pleasted was just a nice old man, adding: “He’s ****g harmless now, ain’t he?”
At the time, Pleasted was on bail awaiting trial at Snaresbrook crown court on two charges of sexual assault on two children aged under 13. Police were investigating a further allegation he had abused a third boy.
The Old Bailey heard that Pleasted had a string of convictions for sexually assaulting boys between 1970 and 1991.
The serial child abuser, who also went by the name of Robin Moult, had a total of 24 previous convictions for sexual offences before he met the children he was accused of molesting last year.
He served sentences of between nine months and six years for sex crimes which included indecent assault on a male over 16, indecent assault on a male under 16, indecent assault on a male under 14 and buggery.
But before the fresh allegations emerged, Pleasted had become a well known community figure running a bric-a-brac stall from a local shop, the court heard.
Sands had befriended him and used to go round to his flat with home-cooked meals.
She sobbed in the witness box as she insisted she had not meant to hurt Pleasted when she went to his flat armed with a knife on the night of the killing after drinking a bottle of brandy.
She told jurors she had gone there to plead with him to admit his crimes and spare his young accusers from having to go to court.
But when he answered the door, he ignored her request and just “smirked” as he told her the boys were all liars who had ruined his life.
Sands said: “I was frightened. It was not how it was meant to go. He was meant to listen to me.”
The jury of 10 women and two men deliberated for three days before clearing her of murder and convicting her of manslaughter by reason of loss of control.
Sentencing was adjourned for reports and will take place on a date to be fixed in September.
The trial judge, Nicholas Cooke QC, told the jury that an inquiry was under way into the decision to bail Pleasted, adding that the jurors were clearly “troubled by the background” of the case.
The OP posted this..ffs
For the sake of would be luvvie jurors, neither of them are black or asian.
the question asked was "what colour was the murdered person ??", not what wasn't the colour of either.
hth
There's not a lot left after black or asian are taken out.
Yellow?
Or is that racist?
For the sake of would be luvvie jurors, neither of them are black or asian.
the question asked was "what colour was the murdered person ??", not what wasn't the colour of either.
hth
There's not a lot left after black or asian are taken out.
Yellow?
Or is that racist?
The Guardian print the expletives in full, btw.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news
Not a black or asian crime in sight on that page.
Not a black or asian crime in sight on that page.
murder, from what is on this thread
I don't post lies.
I don't post lies.
A two week trial with the jury out for three days -- wtf did they talk about for that length of time? From the story, the bare facts seem beyond dispute as she admitted taking a knife and killing him, so it was a question of motivation and premeditation.
What is slightly worrying is the "he was a paedo so it doesn't matter" defence might become a get-out-of-jail-free card, or the "I'd had a bit to drink" defence.
The composition of the jury is a bit odd as well: ten women and two men.
What is slightly worrying is the "he was a paedo so it doesn't matter" defence might become a get-out-of-jail-free card, or the "I'd had a bit to drink" defence.
The composition of the jury is a bit odd as well: ten women and two men.
I'm not going to shed any tears over the victim, and on the face of it the verdict is questionable to say the least, but for me the most troubling aspect of the case is this: how is it possible that a man already convicted of 24 sexual offences against children be allowed to remain at large and live under an assumed name when he is awaiting trial for yet more offences of the same nature? He has been bailed ffs, when he should be under lock and key. Little wonder people feel the need to carry out such violent acts when the justice system exposes their children to danger, in his case a known recidivist paedophile.
Little wonder people feel the need to carry out such violent acts when the justice system exposes their children to danger
True. However, we should note the published stories do not mention the killer has any children.
True. However, we should note the published stories do not mention the killer has any children.
Ok an explanation as to really what happened here for the benefit of the jury, probably the judge also, and chit-chatters.
There are a few clues, the question is what was her motive in killing the man. The assumption by the jury and most people is that when she heard he was a paedophile she lost control because of her revulsion and pity for the victims and killed him..
But reading through here someone said that she was friendly with this man and even made dinner for him. She was living on an estate and working class people are not capable of logical thinking...she was worried and fearful about the reaction she would receive from other people on the estate...her thoughts were not sympathy for the victims but in her muddled and callous thinking how she would appear to the rest of this neighbourhood.
In her anger and rage and fear, she killed him not out of compassion for his victims but as a savage brutal and morally dishonest way, to disassociate herself from his crimes, this is the nature of the world she lived in....she comitt3ed this murder in cold blood using the limited and warped logic that her brain processed
It was murder as brutal and callous and dishonest as most.
There are a few clues, the question is what was her motive in killing the man. The assumption by the jury and most people is that when she heard he was a paedophile she lost control because of her revulsion and pity for the victims and killed him..
But reading through here someone said that she was friendly with this man and even made dinner for him. She was living on an estate and working class people are not capable of logical thinking...she was worried and fearful about the reaction she would receive from other people on the estate...her thoughts were not sympathy for the victims but in her muddled and callous thinking how she would appear to the rest of this neighbourhood.
In her anger and rage and fear, she killed him not out of compassion for his victims but as a savage brutal and morally dishonest way, to disassociate herself from his crimes, this is the nature of the world she lived in....she comitt3ed this murder in cold blood using the limited and warped logic that her brain processed
It was murder as brutal and callous and dishonest as most.
After reading all the information, I still say it's murder.
G1_Jockey_4
13 Jul 15 13:30
knew the OP left something out..euthanasia imo
I left out plenty, the ides was to see if any manslaughter voters changed to murder after seeing all the evidence, which I was going to put in bit by bit, until Money Tree googled it and found it.
Note the differnces between the local rag where he was murdered, and the Guardian.
You were gutted because there were no blacks or asians in it, which is what you were expecting as it was posted by me.
Even more so after it was discovered it was in Newham.
13 Jul 15 13:30
knew the OP left something out..euthanasia imo
I left out plenty, the ides was to see if any manslaughter voters changed to murder after seeing all the evidence, which I was going to put in bit by bit, until Money Tree googled it and found it.
Note the differnces between the local rag where he was murdered, and the Guardian.
You were gutted because there were no blacks or asians in it, which is what you were expecting as it was posted by me.
Even more so after it was discovered it was in Newham.
i am gutted now because if the killer was asian i could have used youth in asia ...........i'll get me coat
and tbh your obsession with ethnics is a bit more than someone being a throwback.
your a worrying individual ....well not worrying just a nutter
your a worrying individual ....well not worrying just a nutter
Murder.
She armed herself before going round to his flat so it was premeditated.
Any other verdict is a vigilante's charter.
Hope the judge gives her the maximum sentence allowed otherwise there should be an appeal.
She armed herself before going round to his flat so it was premeditated.
Any other verdict is a vigilante's charter.
Hope the judge gives her the maximum sentence allowed otherwise there should be an appeal.
The verdict was in. 10-2
The crime of the victim should not make any difference.
You don't take 2 tools and a knife round without the intention of killing him.
If she says was for self defence then the best form of that would be to not go round in the first place.
The crime of the victim should not make any difference.
You don't take 2 tools and a knife round without the intention of killing him.
If she says was for self defence then the best form of that would be to not go round in the first place.
All part of the prevalent atmosphere of paedophile hysteria. Murder.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-33464970
worth a read and thought provoking.
prevention has to be worth a shot at.
worth a read and thought provoking.
prevention has to be worth a shot at.
lfc1971
She was living on an estate and working class people are not capable of logical thinking.
^^^^^^ Must live in a mansion in 50 acres, with no neighbours.
She was living on an estate and working class people are not capable of logical thinking.
^^^^^^ Must live in a mansion in 50 acres, with no neighbours.
Remember the "working class mob" that attacked the house of a "paedo" (woman)who turned out to be a paediatrician FFS.
It was probably up north, they don't read too well up there.
An update from our Newham correspondent.
WHAT A SURPRISE!!…….NOT!! SENTENCE FOR MANSLAUGHTER
She got 3 and a half years for what was clearly a murder, and not manslaughter, the jury were wrong.
http://www.newhamrecorder.co.uk/news/crime-court/woman_sentenced_after_stabb...
WHAT A SURPRISE!!…….NOT!! SENTENCE FOR MANSLAUGHTER
She got 3 and a half years for what was clearly a murder, and not manslaughter, the jury were wrong.
http://www.newhamrecorder.co.uk/news/crime-court/woman_sentenced_after_stabb...
good luck to her...i hope she gets a cushy number in the shovel....the vile piece of **** she killed should have been castrated or killed years ago...what a fackin shambles our penal system is ..that allows filth with over 20 convictions of sex abuse to still be allowed in society...get nicked for abit of housing benefit fraud and youre classed as public enemy number 1...our country is run by nonce cases.
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