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Watching the football match tonight got me thinking about this question and I cant think of any.
Ronaldo went on to become the best player in the world in my opinion but not while playing in England. Thiery Henry was possibly the best player in the world for a period while playing in England but never won the award.
Ronaldo went on to become the best player in the world in my opinion but not while playing in England. Thiery Henry was possibly the best player in the world for a period while playing in England but never won the award.
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Torres around 2008. Ronaldo in his last season at Old Trafford was ridiculous as well. Much easier for Messi to look good when he's surrounded by top players.
Fat Ronaldo was sublime in his heyday so no one in late 90s early 00s stood a chance
Fat Ronaldo was sublime in his heyday so no one in late 90s early 00s stood a chance
Could English football ever attract the worlds top player in his prime to its league. Its never happened yet.
Interesting question paddle toe.
I am a little biased, but in about 1980-1 as Cruyff and beckenbauer were leaving the stage, hoddle was the best player in the world.platini was class as well, but hoddle was t his absolute peak in that year as a creative force and goalscorer.
Robert Pires was as good as anyone in he world in 2003 and 2004, majestic artist and again scored a lot of goals.
I am a little biased, but in about 1980-1 as Cruyff and beckenbauer were leaving the stage, hoddle was the best player in the world.platini was class as well, but hoddle was t his absolute peak in that year as a creative force and goalscorer.
Robert Pires was as good as anyone in he world in 2003 and 2004, majestic artist and again scored a lot of goals.
Up late watching the cricket.
Think the Balon Dor only started in 1990 so there are official world players of the year from then. Before then I don't think there would be any argument Maradona was the best player ( greatest ever )from around 84 with probably Van Basten and Gullit taking over from him in the late 80's.
In the period between 70-80 again the top player in the world are the obvious ones such as Pele, Beckenbauer, Cruyff. Even Muller and some of the other Brazilians would not have made it to the single best player in the world in any year in that company.
Which leaves us with the early 80's. While Hoddle was definitely a great player by any standards your forgetting Jed about the great Brazilian team of that period most of whom never played in Europe. I reckon most people including myself would take Zico over Hoddle from 1981-83.
Think the Balon Dor only started in 1990 so there are official world players of the year from then. Before then I don't think there would be any argument Maradona was the best player ( greatest ever )from around 84 with probably Van Basten and Gullit taking over from him in the late 80's.
In the period between 70-80 again the top player in the world are the obvious ones such as Pele, Beckenbauer, Cruyff. Even Muller and some of the other Brazilians would not have made it to the single best player in the world in any year in that company.
Which leaves us with the early 80's. While Hoddle was definitely a great player by any standards your forgetting Jed about the great Brazilian team of that period most of whom never played in Europe. I reckon most people including myself would take Zico over Hoddle from 1981-83.
Huge problem for the UK is climate
I know City and Utd pay £300k but I could think of a thousand better places to live esp if you've grown up on a Brazilian or Spanish beach
I know City and Utd pay £300k but I could think of a thousand better places to live esp if you've grown up on a Brazilian or Spanish beach
I know you cant judge a player by titles alone but in the period 1980-83 Zico won three Brazilian league titles, the south American cup and he just happened to be in the great Brazilian team of 1982 which never lost a game in 20 odd matches prior to that tournament and he was only the second best player on that Brazilian team! What was Hoddle doing during that period.
btw, get some beauty sleep Moonbeam. Any wonder you get grouchy sometimes with all the late nights!
Charming ... it's how some of us make a living but Goodnight .
Pulling the plug on my night shift. Hope you have a good night Moonbeam. Btw, what kind of an hourly rate of pay are you on these days?
Don't mean to be nosey. Just wondering what its like these days in my old job.
stanley matthews, tom finney, billy wright ,dixie dean, len shackleton ?
Doesn't matter. The Prem is still the best league in the world. © Sky, Alan Green, the panel on MOTD etc.
Agree the uk climate is a huge factor.
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They don't here for a holiday
Besides Milan ,France and Germany in the football season is colder than Southern England, hardly up to Brazilian beach standards
Barcelona or Porto is a bit more like it for 6 months of the year - and at least it has a beach
I think culture ,lifestyle and language is the bigger factor - if theyre from Brazil ,Argentina that is
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They don't here for a holiday
Besides Milan ,France and Germany in the football season is colder than Southern England, hardly up to Brazilian beach standards
Barcelona or Porto is a bit more like it for 6 months of the year - and at least it has a beach
I think culture ,lifestyle and language is the bigger factor - if theyre from Brazil ,Argentina that is
Funnily enough paddletoe the Zico thing was a bugbear for me at the time, in that, yes, he was obviously a talent but people would be talk in him up left right and centre, but in most cases it was merely on his reputation because very few had actually seen him play.
And then when they did see him play, namely at that world cup, he was overshadowed by he chain-smoking philosopher and Brazil got knocked out by the first decent team they played.
As for what hoddle was doing, well he won the fa cup twice, scoring in both finals and one of he replays, when that competition was still worth winning - and got spurs to the latter stages of two European trophies, one of which they won.
As I said, I am a little biased, but zico and hoddle were very similar players - the only difference was that zico played for and in Brazil, where his talent was admired and respected, and hoddle played in england, where his talent was barely even understood.
And then when they did see him play, namely at that world cup, he was overshadowed by he chain-smoking philosopher and Brazil got knocked out by the first decent team they played.
As for what hoddle was doing, well he won the fa cup twice, scoring in both finals and one of he replays, when that competition was still worth winning - and got spurs to the latter stages of two European trophies, one of which they won.
As I said, I am a little biased, but zico and hoddle were very similar players - the only difference was that zico played for and in Brazil, where his talent was admired and respected, and hoddle played in england, where his talent was barely even understood.
Hoddle was so good in 1980, he almost single-handedly lifted Spurs to 10th in the league. The following year, they reached the dizzy heights of 4th, despite winning fewer games than Swansea. You'd like to think the best player in the world would have a greater impact than that.
Still, he was probably better than Robert Pires!
Still, he was probably better than Robert Pires!
Jed i know exactly what you mean about Zico. He had this name which summed up a certain style to any young lad growing up in Europe at that time but if you look at some of the old clips of him and his goal scoring record in Brazil at that time he was in my opinion the best player in the world. While I would say Socrates was by far the most important player on and also off the pitch in that great Brazilian national side he was not as good as Zico.
Agree with everything you say about Hoddle. He was similar to Clough in that his talents were never appreciated and used enough by the England national sides. While Keegan won two European player of the year awards Hoddle was a far better player and brought a skill level to the game which Keegan could never come close to matching through his hard work. And I say that as a Liverpool fan from my youth.
Agree with everything you say about Hoddle. He was similar to Clough in that his talents were never appreciated and used enough by the England national sides. While Keegan won two European player of the year awards Hoddle was a far better player and brought a skill level to the game which Keegan could never come close to matching through his hard work. And I say that as a Liverpool fan from my youth.
Pires is a decent shout - Cantona i thought was also brilliant for a time
Pires was so good he got himself a move to Villareal.
There's a place for both types though, Keegan was also a favourite of mine, he did have some skill and his Stakhanovite work ethic impressed.
Mikael, where Spurs finished is irrelevant really, the team was only just emerging from the post-Nicholson slump which had seen it relegated a couple of years before, and may have had the most feeble defensive unit in all my time watching the club.
And Pires was a sublime footballer - his star waxed and waned quickly granted, he was never the same player after doing his cruciate, But for he couple of seasons around the time of the hallowed Invincibles, he was unplayable. Should you have it in you to converse with Arsenal fans, ask one of them.
Mikael, where Spurs finished is irrelevant really, the team was only just emerging from the post-Nicholson slump which had seen it relegated a couple of years before, and may have had the most feeble defensive unit in all my time watching the club.
And Pires was a sublime footballer - his star waxed and waned quickly granted, he was never the same player after doing his cruciate, But for he couple of seasons around the time of the hallowed Invincibles, he was unplayable. Should you have it in you to converse with Arsenal fans, ask one of them.
When Diego Maradona went to Napoli, their entire history was two Coppa Italias and two Serie Bs - one of them shared. Within 5 years, they'd won Serie A twice, were runners-up twice, won another Italian Cup and a UEFA Cup. That's what the best player in the world does for a team. They don't finish 10th, 4th, 4th etc. Using relegation isn't much of an excuse - it didn't stop Notts Forest winning a league and two European Cups, and they didn't have the best player in the world playing for them.
I still believe the best footballer that's played in the Premiership is Peter Schmeichel
During 1992-1994 I reckon he must have been the best footballer in the world
Stopping Van Basten and co. in the semi final virtually on his own and lifting Euro title
Then 20-odd clean sheets for Man Utd.
Those early years of Man Utd finally getting success, were largely down to him stopping attackers bearing down on goal, countless times.
Yet, he's largely ignored, in reverence, by Man Utd fans behind the likes of Cantona, Giggs, Keane etc.
Apart from Schmeichel, I don't support Man Utd and despise some of the things they stand for.
During 1992-1994 I reckon he must have been the best footballer in the world
Stopping Van Basten and co. in the semi final virtually on his own and lifting Euro title
Then 20-odd clean sheets for Man Utd.
Those early years of Man Utd finally getting success, were largely down to him stopping attackers bearing down on goal, countless times.
Yet, he's largely ignored, in reverence, by Man Utd fans behind the likes of Cantona, Giggs, Keane etc.
Apart from Schmeichel, I don't support Man Utd and despise some of the things they stand for.
The best 'footballer' cannot be a goalie. Ever.
He's definitely the best 'keeper I've seen though, I'll give you that, and definitely was as important to Man Ure as the three you mentioned, if not more so.
He's definitely the best 'keeper I've seen though, I'll give you that, and definitely was as important to Man Ure as the three you mentioned, if not more so.
Its often said that maradona won Napoli those trophies single handedly, but hey bought some very good players to play around him. Carnevale and Di Napoli were both super players, then Careca came along, they spent fortunes building that team, inclufing a world record fee for he great man himself. Anyway, this argument is moot because I'm talking bout hoddle in the early 80s, before maradona emerged and as Cruyff and der kaiser were leaving the stage.
Re the forest team, they ere managed by one of the great geniuses of football. They had a great TEAM, the spurs team of that era had a great player.
Re the forest team, they ere managed by one of the great geniuses of football. They had a great TEAM, the spurs team of that era had a great player.
Schmeichel was about half as good as Patrick Jennings. I can't think of any higher praise I could throw at him.
I should add mikael that I think maradona is the best player I've over seen.
The best 'footballer' cannot be a goalie. Ever.
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Schmeichel was exceptional but have agree with the above
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Schmeichel was exceptional but have agree with the above
Of course he didn't win those trophies on his own jed, but Tottenham in 1980-81 weren't exactly devoid of talent either.
You could definitely put up an argument Hoddle was the best player in European football for a very short period around 1980 before Platini and Maradonna came along.
sometimes there isnt a best player in the world
messi/ronaldo seem head and shoulders above the rest
but either could be the best, good job they dont
play for the same team ....
goalies are footballers and schmichel must have been about
the best in the world at his peak, denmark won european
championship, man utd won stuff with kids
messi/ronaldo seem head and shoulders above the rest
but either could be the best, good job they dont
play for the same team ....
goalies are footballers and schmichel must have been about
the best in the world at his peak, denmark won european
championship, man utd won stuff with kids
Speaking of moot points, this thread would have lasted one post had Sheff Utd signed Maradona instead of Alex Sabella!
No they weren't, but you're using their league finishes as a stick to beat hoddle with, and I am telling you, as someone who watched every spurs game home and away between 1974 and 1988, that they had no defenders worthy of he name which made a high league finish impossible.
Hoddle scored twenty league goals in the 1980 season from memory, and they were just about all great goals. He was an extraordinary player, bornat the wwrong time in the wrong country. You dissing him is taking me back to my youth, when I would regularly stand his corner in rows against footballing neanderthals. He was poetry in motion, the greatest English footballer of the last forty years, not that that really says a lot.
Hoddle scored twenty league goals in the 1980 season from memory, and they were just about all great goals. He was an extraordinary player, bornat the wwrong time in the wrong country. You dissing him is taking me back to my youth, when I would regularly stand his corner in rows against footballing neanderthals. He was poetry in motion, the greatest English footballer of the last forty years, not that that really says a lot.
I'm hardly dissing him, just not drinking the White Hart Lane kool-aid!
Re Keegan, he was a great player but unlike someone like Hoddle, Keegan was that type of great player who could not do anything with the ball that I could not do! He could just do things a bit quicker and better. Players like linekar and even Gerd Muller were similar types of player. With players like Hoddle he could do things on a football pitch I could only dream of doing.
Platini was already established as a great player around that time paddle toe, he had been the heartbeat of the very capable st Etienne side of the late 70s and early 80s which won the french league and reached a couple of cup finals. His fame was not at its zenith though to be fair.
Yeah sorry, as I said I might be a touch biased. And I'm enjoying the argument, been a while since I had it. If you really want to get me going, just give Andy Cole a bit of stick........lol
And football is a sport when you are a neutral where history will not look back as fondly on those 40 odd goals inside the box Gerd Muller or Linekar scored but those special passes and goals by Hoddle should be much more appreciated.
I just looked through the spurs history site top spurs.com, and I can remember at least ten of the goals he scored that season, as they were all of of this world. Not bad 34 years later, especially a I can't even remember what I had for tea yesterday
Cole, Cole, Andy Andy Cole,
he get's the ball,
he trips and falls,
Andy, Andy Cole.
What a beautiful day that was when he missed about 10 chances against West Ham, allowing Blackburn to win the league.
You're on...
he get's the ball,
he trips and falls,
Andy, Andy Cole.
What a beautiful day that was when he missed about 10 chances against West Ham, allowing Blackburn to win the league.
You're on...
Btw, wasn't it Hoddle who famously dissed Andy Cole?
Please excuse all the typos, new tablet and fat fingers.
I apologise for using an apostrophe in gets. New tablet etc! 
It was, but my love for hoddle does not extend further than his playing career, as he is an arse of the first order, a crank, and a messianic fool. And had David pleat (PBUH) not rescued the situation after hoddle was sacked, he would have led us into the second division.
Btw Jedd you made a comment on another thread recently when you said all sports improve in standard and players in those sports get better. Would you not agree that may not be true for football because if you look at all the truly greatest footballers in history one common social factor made them all. They were all products of playing in the back streets of big cities and players are not produced in that same way today. Sure, some modern day players have great technical ability but they are coached from an early age in a way the players from the past were not.
I'm not getting into it mikael, I have actually had a fight in a pub over Andy Cole.that's nothing though, I would have gone to war on Jermain defoes behalf. Lol
I said most sports to be fair, and I was probably a bit hasty, even though I stand by my point about the sport under discussion at the time. Your more nuanced dissection of the point was spot on I thought.
I'd agree with that rob, again it was a slightly fallow period for true greats, wit maradona winding down. I don't think there would even be a discussion to be had about Gascoigne had he not killed himself in that cup final, he was a true one-off. So sad.
Gazza should have been sent off in that final. He was out of control.
I'm a Spurs fan.
I'm a Spurs fan.
I used to be football mad as a kid but to be honest I find it hard to watch a live football match outside of the world cup in my middle age. Its just not the same sport in used to love as a boy when you watched the big match on itv and saw that Frank Worthington wonder goal reruns to an opening sound track that give you goose bumps. You had the FA cup which you could watch the build up from early morning. And then there were the world cups which had so much more mystery about it than today when you saw some great players from far off countries for the first time.
Jed, you must not have believed your luck when Spurs signed Klinsman and the Romanian fellas in that summer after the 94 world cup. That bit of business by Sugar must go down as the best transfer coup in English football.
In all the chat on this thread I had forgotten about the signing of Klinsman, not a huge fee needed to be paid due to his age but he was probably the best player at that world cup and that spurs side was one of the most exciting sides I can remember watching as a neutral football fan. Klinsmans celebration dive after his first goal in English football was one of the great pieces of football theatre and I went to watch spurs during one of his early games at white hart lane and he was the best player I have ever seen in the flesh. His movement off the ball was worth the admission the way he was always on his toes on the shoulder of defenders.
Spurs could never have bought a 25 year Klinsman but he probably was the best player in the world that summer.
In all the chat on this thread I had forgotten about the signing of Klinsman, not a huge fee needed to be paid due to his age but he was probably the best player at that world cup and that spurs side was one of the most exciting sides I can remember watching as a neutral football fan. Klinsmans celebration dive after his first goal in English football was one of the great pieces of football theatre and I went to watch spurs during one of his early games at white hart lane and he was the best player I have ever seen in the flesh. His movement off the ball was worth the admission the way he was always on his toes on the shoulder of defenders.
Spurs could never have bought a 25 year Klinsman but he probably was the best player in the world that summer.
Think ZICO played in the World Club Championship against Liverpool - 3-0 - and Souness said he couldn't get near him.
Keegan always sticks out in my mind as one of the greats. Brilliant player, hard worker. Bit like Messi on speed.
English soccer was head and shoulders above Euro opposition for long time (between i'd say 1976 and 1989 )
Some of the English players around before Maradonna must be in with a shout about that time ,Cruyff was on his last legs by then
Some of the English players around before Maradonna must be in with a shout about that time ,Cruyff was on his last legs by then
Hoddle's finest hour - setting up and taking apart Cruyff's Feyenoord with 4 goals in 1984
Jed i too might be a tad bias ..but Pat Jennings was without doubt the best keeper i have ever seen ...Hoodle the best english man i have ever seen
I watched a oF Martin Chivers from 70-74 when i think he left ..good goal scorer...good in the air ...but god he was lazy
JIMMY GREAVES was the greatest footballer of his time, in any country, and the greatest of any era in any time and place...the greatest the world has ever seen.
eyeball, an article here by Calum Best about his Dad.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2997832/Dad-s-bitterly-poignant-word...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2997832/Dad-s-bitterly-poignant-word...
Redcar its a difficult question. As I alluded to above Gascoigne was just unique - his talent was incredible, he had pace, he was incredibly strong, he could do anything. But he was at Spurs for three seasons, and spent a lot of time injured. When he left Spurs he was still brilliant, ask any Lazio fan, and any Rangers fan, but he was playing on one leg. It was a miracle that h was playing at all, he was one of he first players to even resurrect any kind of career after the cruciate injury - surgery and rehabilitation from that injury was not as advanced as it is now, and even now its a painfully slow process.
There is no doubt in my mind, whatsoever, that had Gascoigne stayed fit and gone to Lazio in peak condition he would be recognised worldwide as among the best footballers ever born. But he didn't, he went there cattled and hardly played due to the existing problem and a number of other injuries.
Hoddle played at Spurs for over a decade, and was just as majestic in his last game as his first. He was also a Tottenham youth team graduate, so our feelings for him developed over a long time. I can still remember the sadness I felt when it became known that he was leaving us. And he was a different type of player to Gascoigne, despite them both being true outliers in the pantheon of English footballers. For me the difference we this - I loved Gascoigne, I absolutely worshipped Hoddle. If I was england manager, he'd have about 2000 caps because I'd still be picking him now.
There is no doubt in my mind, whatsoever, that had Gascoigne stayed fit and gone to Lazio in peak condition he would be recognised worldwide as among the best footballers ever born. But he didn't, he went there cattled and hardly played due to the existing problem and a number of other injuries.
Hoddle played at Spurs for over a decade, and was just as majestic in his last game as his first. He was also a Tottenham youth team graduate, so our feelings for him developed over a long time. I can still remember the sadness I felt when it became known that he was leaving us. And he was a different type of player to Gascoigne, despite them both being true outliers in the pantheon of English footballers. For me the difference we this - I loved Gascoigne, I absolutely worshipped Hoddle. If I was england manager, he'd have about 2000 caps because I'd still be picking him now.
Surprised Robbie Keane, Justin Edinburgh and Gary Mabbutt haven't had a mention yet...
Face facts : since the dawn of the game, there never has been an English player who was the best in the world at ANY time...ya deluded fuds! 
For a BEST EVER WORLD 11 side, there are only 2 possible English candidates - Gordon Banks and Bobby Moore, with both just missing out IMO...
Carlton Exley-Grainger, cultured left-half for Burton Swifts circa 1878, reputed to be the best player in northern Europe except for Spunky McTavish, the Queen's Park winger.
In those days, Queen's Park played with six men on the left flank, two centre forwards and Spunky McTavish unencumbered on the right.....Filthy Jackson played in the HOLE.
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