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04 Mar 15
11:11
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Date Joined:
09 May 05
Two Australian men convicted of drug smuggling in Indonesia have been taken from a prison in Bali to an island where they face execution by firing squad.
Myuran Sukumaran, 33, and Andrew Chan, 31, were found guilty in 2005 of being the ringleaders of the so-called "Bali Nine" drug smuggling gang.
They were sentenced to death the following year.
Australia has been pursuing a campaign to save the men - but the Indonesian president has refused to grant them clemency.
Myuran Sukumaran, 33, and Andrew Chan, 31, were found guilty in 2005 of being the ringleaders of the so-called "Bali Nine" drug smuggling gang.
They were sentenced to death the following year.
Australia has been pursuing a campaign to save the men - but the Indonesian president has refused to grant them clemency.
Show More
http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/bali-nine-drug-smugglers-taken-to-execut...
Why doesn't Indonesai just say give us a billion bucks and we will release them? Then we will see how much the aussies care.
ebulGery
A tough punishment
But their country their law
I totally agree with that ebul but would add that they knew the risks.
A tough punishment
But their country their law
I totally agree with that ebul but would add that they knew the risks.
Mmmmm...Interesting because I have read about these two men, watched documentaries, read some more, watched more documentaries etc...
When I did, I felt genuine sorrow for the fact that they had done so much positive stuff inside a completely corrupt prison, listened to them talking about their crime. I understand that there may well be bias in production of these books/docs and they may well also just be sorry for being caught BUT I personally can only conclude that It is just plain wrong to kill them. Yes, kill them.
Maybe, one day I may have to look someone in the eye who has sold my daughter drugs or smuggled them, but would I kill them? No, I don't think so.
Google this case...and watch for yourselves what is out there and listen to them. Then if you would still actually kill them, hey ho. I get the rules is rules thing but I suppose it boils down to the death penalty given for what level of crime.
When I did, I felt genuine sorrow for the fact that they had done so much positive stuff inside a completely corrupt prison, listened to them talking about their crime. I understand that there may well be bias in production of these books/docs and they may well also just be sorry for being caught BUT I personally can only conclude that It is just plain wrong to kill them. Yes, kill them.
Maybe, one day I may have to look someone in the eye who has sold my daughter drugs or smuggled them, but would I kill them? No, I don't think so.
Google this case...and watch for yourselves what is out there and listen to them. Then if you would still actually kill them, hey ho. I get the rules is rules thing but I suppose it boils down to the death penalty given for what level of crime.
I don't believe in the death penalty but I believe in the right of a country to set it's own laws.
They smuggled drugs and they knew if they were caught they would probably face the death penalty.
Obviously they are going to be changed characters now.
They smuggled drugs and they knew if they were caught they would probably face the death penalty.
Obviously they are going to be changed characters now.
Well they will be changing their pants frquently now..
Mar 4, 2015 -- 3:52PM, rob_dylan wrote:
Why doesn't Indonesai just say give us a billion bucks and we will release them?
Australia gives a billion in aid to Indonesia every year.
Ido not believe in the right of a country to set its own laws.
Indonesia has rejected a last-ditch offer from Australia of a prisoner swap aimed at saving the lives of two Australian men on death row.
Foreign Ministry spokesman Arrmanatha Nasir told the BBC that Indonesia had no law to provide for such an exchange.
Earlier Australia's Foreign Minister Julie Bishop confirmed the swap offer was among options being explored.
Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumara, from the 'Bali Nine' drug-smuggling group, are due to be executed within days.
The men are due to be shot by firing squad.
Foreign Ministry spokesman Arrmanatha Nasir told the BBC that Indonesia had no law to provide for such an exchange.
Earlier Australia's Foreign Minister Julie Bishop confirmed the swap offer was among options being explored.
Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumara, from the 'Bali Nine' drug-smuggling group, are due to be executed within days.
The men are due to be shot by firing squad.
lfc1971 05 Mar 15 09:29
Ido not believe in the right of a country to set its own laws.
What about the good ol' U.S. of A.? I thought everything was perfect over there?
Ido not believe in the right of a country to set its own laws.
What about the good ol' U.S. of A.? I thought everything was perfect over there?
It`s alright Gery, smuggling viagra in your man bag is not punishable by execution even in Indonesia.
^^^
Agree, but Indonesia is a barbaric regime.
Long time ago now but they slaughtered 7,000 odd peaceful demonstrators in East Timor with arms supplied by M.Thatcher esq, same woman that helped Pol Pot and that other mass murderer Pinochet.
Most countries have levels of shameful barbarity.
Agree, but Indonesia is a barbaric regime.
Long time ago now but they slaughtered 7,000 odd peaceful demonstrators in East Timor with arms supplied by M.Thatcher esq, same woman that helped Pol Pot and that other mass murderer Pinochet.
Most countries have levels of shameful barbarity.
guinness2dear
Well fark off back to it ye cretin
Peep seem to forget the misery that drugs wreak on communities.
These two were not giving a feck for that and only interested in making money.
They knew the death penalty was a possibility, absolutely stupid decision on their parts.
Well fark off back to it ye cretin
Peep seem to forget the misery that drugs wreak on communities.
These two were not giving a feck for that and only interested in making money.
They knew the death penalty was a possibility, absolutely stupid decision on their parts.
One of the most moronic statements I've read on here - and I'm a regular on the horse racing forum.
KING of dubai, everyone has a point of view.
as has already been stated its the law of the land in some countries and who are we to tell them how to run it. i dont agree with the
death penalty but some would even argue its more humane than spending the rest of your days in a squalid jail.
KING of dubai, everyone has a point of view.
as has already been stated its the law of the land in some countries and who are we to tell them how to run it. i dont agree with the
death penalty but some would even argue its more humane than spending the rest of your days in a squalid jail.
The sheer hypocrisy of the decision, is that Indonesia fights tooth and nail to save its own citizens, that are on death row in other countries, for drug convictions.
It has had success at times in saving the lives of theses citizens.
It has had success at times in saving the lives of theses citizens.
Why are we hearing of these two and not of others who have been executed or are on death row in Indonesia for the same offence? Are there some aspects of the case which qualify them for a more lenient sentence? It's not clear to me from anything I've seen on this thread.
whats going on with the english women dew to be shot
i dont agree with the
death penalty but some would even argue its more humane than spending the rest of your days in a squalid jail.
They are both actually very busy with in the jail, Sukumaran is running a screen print shop and studying other fine art and mentoring. Chan is involved in the church and mentoring others. They would both accept a life in this prison over being shot.
Why are we hearing of these two and not of others who have been executed or are on death row in Indonesia for the same offence? Are there some aspects of the case which qualify them for a more lenient sentence? It's not clear to me from anything I've seen on this thread.
Sukumaran was tagged as being the `Kingpin` and Chan was tagged with being the `Godfather` of the drug deal. The others have been given life sentences.
death penalty but some would even argue its more humane than spending the rest of your days in a squalid jail.
They are both actually very busy with in the jail, Sukumaran is running a screen print shop and studying other fine art and mentoring. Chan is involved in the church and mentoring others. They would both accept a life in this prison over being shot.
Why are we hearing of these two and not of others who have been executed or are on death row in Indonesia for the same offence? Are there some aspects of the case which qualify them for a more lenient sentence? It's not clear to me from anything I've seen on this thread.
Sukumaran was tagged as being the `Kingpin` and Chan was tagged with being the `Godfather` of the drug deal. The others have been given life sentences.
I assume he was talking about the other 8 who are to be executed at the same time.
These two chaps seem to be genuinely reformed and seem to actually be an asset to the prison with the programs they are running. Not sure killing them will solve anything.
These two chaps seem to be genuinely reformed and seem to actually be an asset to the prison with the programs they are running. Not sure killing them will solve anything.
Plus the fact that they used about a million people to transfer these two guys, and even showed photos of the Chief Police Dude smiling next to one of them on the plane, whereas another guy due to be excuted was transferred in a single car or something.
Are the other 8 Australian?
They are pleading for clemency for their own citizens I suspect
These two were ringleaders, glad to see they are reformed ,but does tis excuse their original crime
It is a harsh punishment, but maybe that is the only way to deter drug trafficking in Indonesia
They are pleading for clemency for their own citizens I suspect
These two were ringleaders, glad to see they are reformed ,but does tis excuse their original crime
It is a harsh punishment, but maybe that is the only way to deter drug trafficking in Indonesia
if ALL drug dealers in ALL corners of the globe
even your bottom of the chain ones peddling v small amounts
knew incontrovertibly that they would be exterminated by their own govt
or transgressing away from home by the govt of the country they transgressed in
how many drugs do you think would be sold illegally?
THE bane of society
even your bottom of the chain ones peddling v small amounts
knew incontrovertibly that they would be exterminated by their own govt
or transgressing away from home by the govt of the country they transgressed in
how many drugs do you think would be sold illegally?
THE bane of society
I went to a small indonesian jungle village in Sumatra 1 year ago. Was awash with Marijuana. I knew westerners that did it but no fkin way i was even touching it, The locals were all smoking it openly too. At the time that Sandiford woman was in some stinking indonesian jail ready to be taken out into the woods and shot. I'm stupid but I ain't that stupid. But my point is that threat didn't put off the locals, nor a few westerners (who surely would be even more sh1t scared of an indonesian jail than the indonesians).
interesting that they were taking drugs (Heroin) out the country rather than in,not sure if Indonesia is a poppy producer but sits just outside the golden triangle ,no doubt they are trying to stop the corruption that comes with the trade ,not sure about the politics of it all but the message is loud and clear.
Would not like to be in the shoes of those facing the death pen but once a community is awash with smack and the old ladies are getting battered and mugged everything that is not tied down stolen ,no go areas rife and junkie zombies all over the shop its hell for everyone so little sympathy .
Would not like to be in the shoes of those facing the death pen but once a community is awash with smack and the old ladies are getting battered and mugged everything that is not tied down stolen ,no go areas rife and junkie zombies all over the shop its hell for everyone so little sympathy .
ROB...that's more the end user ur alluding to tho' doubtless some villager was also supplying it
more to the point were u still able to bet & get live feeds?
more to the point were u still able to bet & get live feeds?
I have little sympathy for the Aussies as they knew what they were doing and they knew the risks.
However, before labelling drug dealers "the bane of society", it's important to realise how much fun drugs can be. I mean, the idea is that they provide pleasure, after all, just like with alcohol and gambling. Sure, they cause problems too, but it's not obvious to me whether there would be more or less happiness in the world without them. I'm pretty sure I'd be less happy, though.
However, before labelling drug dealers "the bane of society", it's important to realise how much fun drugs can be. I mean, the idea is that they provide pleasure, after all, just like with alcohol and gambling. Sure, they cause problems too, but it's not obvious to me whether there would be more or less happiness in the world without them. I'm pretty sure I'd be less happy, though.
yeah these 2 were not foolish young travellers conned into taking drugs through customs. they were masterminding the operation
i don't agree with the death penalth per se but they knew full well what risks they were taking
i don't agree with the death penalth per se but they knew full well what risks they were taking
72 hours notice of execution has been given.
At least three of 10 people on death row in Indonesia for drug smuggling have been given formal notice of their imminent execution.
Two Australians, Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran, and a Philippines woman, Mary Jane Veloso were notified by Indonesian officials on Saturday.
Under Indonesian law, convicts must be given 72 hours' notice of execution, but no formal date has yet been set.
At least three of 10 people on death row in Indonesia for drug smuggling have been given formal notice of their imminent execution.
Two Australians, Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran, and a Philippines woman, Mary Jane Veloso were notified by Indonesian officials on Saturday.
Under Indonesian law, convicts must be given 72 hours' notice of execution, but no formal date has yet been set.
I guess with a death penalty as the deterrent then potential profits would be much higher as fewer are prepared to risk it.
Ultimate risk/reward for the dealers. They got caught, they lost.
One said they are reformed characters on here. Most are reformed after they get caught and face the death penalty. If they got away with it and had pockets bursting with cash do you think they would be reformed and give all their profits away to good causes. NOT BLEEDIN LIKELY.
Ultimate risk/reward for the dealers. They got caught, they lost.
One said they are reformed characters on here. Most are reformed after they get caught and face the death penalty. If they got away with it and had pockets bursting with cash do you think they would be reformed and give all their profits away to good causes. NOT BLEEDIN LIKELY.
No sympathy for them as I doubt they thought for a minute about the devastation that drugs bring to communities.
I think the 'reformed character' argument holds much clout. I honestly believe they are reformed, having followed this case in some depth but I am no expert. The point is that they have done great things whilst in prison, they have changed other people's lives for the better and developed themselves and their skills and they have had time to reflect on what they did.
I also agree, that had they got away with it, they would still be gobby, selfish drug couriers...
Nevertheless, all things considered now, the powers that be are going kill them and I do not see that is right. Keep'em banged up doing the good work they were, yes, kill them, no.
If the Ozzy government want them saved , which they do, send 'em back there so they can pay for it.
I also agree, that had they got away with it, they would still be gobby, selfish drug couriers...
Nevertheless, all things considered now, the powers that be are going kill them and I do not see that is right. Keep'em banged up doing the good work they were, yes, kill them, no.
If the Ozzy government want them saved , which they do, send 'em back there so they can pay for it.
much easier to do great things in prison when you hope it paints you in good light. Especially if your trying to get out of a death penalty.
Whereas when they had the opportunity to do great charitable work or good deeds when free men they chose drug smuggling and tried to get very very rich out of it.
See the difference paulypaul?
Whereas when they had the opportunity to do great charitable work or good deeds when free men they chose drug smuggling and tried to get very very rich out of it.
See the difference paulypaul?
also paulypaul profits are high in Bali because of the death penalty.
They knew this and went after the cash accepting the punishment if they got caught, no point crying over it now.
They knew this and went after the cash accepting the punishment if they got caught, no point crying over it now.
Judge: Norman Stanley Fletcher, you have pleaded guilty to the charges brought by this court, and it is now my duty to pass sentence. You are an habitual criminal, who accepts arrest as an occupational hazard, and presumably accepts imprisonment in the same casual manner. We therefore feel constrained to commit you to the maximum term allowed for these offences: you will go to prison for five years.
instead of imprisonment swop for death penalty.
instead of imprisonment swop for death penalty.
@Patra I think that far more people suffer from drugs than actually enjoy them.
It's impossible to know for sure if they are reformed and would eventually carry on doing good things if released or even if they remained banged up.
What if they were though, absolutely corrected and prepared to put other people first and make a difference to others for the rest of their lives Maleuk01? Even the top prison governor stood in their defence at an appeal saying he never seen prisoners like them and that he believed they were reformed human beings, asking the court to save them.
That's why I feel for them a bit.
What if they were though, absolutely corrected and prepared to put other people first and make a difference to others for the rest of their lives Maleuk01? Even the top prison governor stood in their defence at an appeal saying he never seen prisoners like them and that he believed they were reformed human beings, asking the court to save them.
That's why I feel for them a bit.
they had that chance paulypaul before they got caught.
If a country has a death penalty for certain crimes then they carnt just say ohhh well you 2 seem like nice chaps now so toodle pip.
It then no longer acts as a deterent as people know if caught they can get out of the death penalty.
They DID know about the death penalty and they ACCEPTED the risks involved.
What happens after they get caught is actually irrelevant.
If a country has a death penalty for certain crimes then they carnt just say ohhh well you 2 seem like nice chaps now so toodle pip.
It then no longer acts as a deterent as people know if caught they can get out of the death penalty.
They DID know about the death penalty and they ACCEPTED the risks involved.
What happens after they get caught is actually irrelevant.
Could be one big act.
Whatever they are now they were drug dealers not giving a feck for anyone but themselves. Why waste time on them.
Whatever they are now they were drug dealers not giving a feck for anyone but themselves. Why waste time on them.
If it's the Bali nine, why only two going to be shot dead?
The Godfather and the King Pin apparently pauly.
Although Andrew Chan did ridicule the Godfather tag in his words `I must be the only godfather that still lives with his parents`
Although Andrew Chan did ridicule the Godfather tag in his words `I must be the only godfather that still lives with his parents`
Yes, I saw that in the documentary Gabrial. I think I just have an issue with the death penalty in this case.
What happened to Schapelle Corby?
What happened to Schapelle Corby?
At least three of 10 people on death row in Indonesia for drug smuggling have been given formal notice of their imminent execution.
Two Australians, Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran, and a Philippines woman, Mary Jane Veloso were notified by Indonesian officials on Saturday.
Under Indonesian law, convicts must be given 72 hours' notice of execution, but no formal date has yet been set.
The appeals process for a French national is still under way.
The group is being held on the prison island of Nusakambangan
Appeals for clemency
"Indonesian authorities today [Saturday] advised Australian consular officials that the executions of Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran will be scheduled imminently at Nusa Kambangan prison in central Java," Australian Foreign Minister Julie Bishop said in a statement.
She said she would continue to press for clemency. However, Indonesia's government has rejected all appeals so far.
Veloso's parents, two sons and sister travelled to the island on Saturday to see her.
Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran were the leaders of the "Bali Nine" group arrested in 2005 while attempting to smuggle heroin to Australia.
A court ruled that they had organised a nine-member smuggling operation and they were sentenced to death in 2006.
Indonesian President Joko Widodo, who took office last year, has taken a tough stance on drug crime.
In January he authorised the executions of six people, including five foreigners, convicted of drug offences.
The group of 10 awaiting execution also includes Brazilian and Nigerian nationals
Family informed that the excution of two leaders of "bali nine" will take place this Tuesday night local time
Two Australians, Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran, and a Philippines woman, Mary Jane Veloso were notified by Indonesian officials on Saturday.
Under Indonesian law, convicts must be given 72 hours' notice of execution, but no formal date has yet been set.
The appeals process for a French national is still under way.
The group is being held on the prison island of Nusakambangan
Appeals for clemency
"Indonesian authorities today [Saturday] advised Australian consular officials that the executions of Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran will be scheduled imminently at Nusa Kambangan prison in central Java," Australian Foreign Minister Julie Bishop said in a statement.
She said she would continue to press for clemency. However, Indonesia's government has rejected all appeals so far.
Veloso's parents, two sons and sister travelled to the island on Saturday to see her.
Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran were the leaders of the "Bali Nine" group arrested in 2005 while attempting to smuggle heroin to Australia.
A court ruled that they had organised a nine-member smuggling operation and they were sentenced to death in 2006.
Indonesian President Joko Widodo, who took office last year, has taken a tough stance on drug crime.
In January he authorised the executions of six people, including five foreigners, convicted of drug offences.
The group of 10 awaiting execution also includes Brazilian and Nigerian nationals
Family informed that the excution of two leaders of "bali nine" will take place this Tuesday night local time
Dont do the crime if you cant withstand a bullet to yer brain.
As the saying goes.
As the saying goes.
i doubt it will be a head shot ,more likely a firing squad with the heart/chest being targeted .
WHY INDONESIA IS SO TOUGH ON TRYING TO STOP DRUG TRAFFICKING
Here is some more accurate information on the overwhelming drug problem in Indonesia:
In Indonesia there is today about 4.5 million people (close to the population of New Zealand)
undergoing drug rehabilitation, while 1.2 million are still trapped in drug addiction. With its very
strategic position as an international hub and huge market with majority of young population (around
90 million young people) , Indonesia has been used by traffickers as a very fertile land to carry out
these extraordinary crimes. The 'market' for drug dealers is massive.
The amount of substance being misused is astonishing: Seizures include ten tonnes of heroin, at least
49.5 tonnes of crystal meth (ice), 147 million ecstasy pills and hundred of tonnes of marijuana every
year. It costs Indonesia's economy over Rp. 57 trillion per year (Almost Au$ 5.6 Billion.) and destroys
families, children, grandparents and communities.
Only two weeks ago, Indonesia's BNN agents seized over 860 kg of ice, locally known as 'sabu-sabu'.
This is one of the largest captures in Indonesia and South East Asia. This syndicate, wanted in seven
countries were arrested as they moved the drugs from from China to Indonesia by boat taking
advantage of this country's 17,000 island entry points.
Drug-related abuse and crimes kill around 40 Indonesians every day and leave thousand others
without adequate education...
So the new president asks...."Who can help to prevent these young people dead from drugs?"
Dont forget the people convicted were taking drugs out the country not into ,the death penalty is there to save lives .
Here is some more accurate information on the overwhelming drug problem in Indonesia:
In Indonesia there is today about 4.5 million people (close to the population of New Zealand)
undergoing drug rehabilitation, while 1.2 million are still trapped in drug addiction. With its very
strategic position as an international hub and huge market with majority of young population (around
90 million young people) , Indonesia has been used by traffickers as a very fertile land to carry out
these extraordinary crimes. The 'market' for drug dealers is massive.
The amount of substance being misused is astonishing: Seizures include ten tonnes of heroin, at least
49.5 tonnes of crystal meth (ice), 147 million ecstasy pills and hundred of tonnes of marijuana every
year. It costs Indonesia's economy over Rp. 57 trillion per year (Almost Au$ 5.6 Billion.) and destroys
families, children, grandparents and communities.
Only two weeks ago, Indonesia's BNN agents seized over 860 kg of ice, locally known as 'sabu-sabu'.
This is one of the largest captures in Indonesia and South East Asia. This syndicate, wanted in seven
countries were arrested as they moved the drugs from from China to Indonesia by boat taking
advantage of this country's 17,000 island entry points.
Drug-related abuse and crimes kill around 40 Indonesians every day and leave thousand others
without adequate education...
So the new president asks...."Who can help to prevent these young people dead from drugs?"
Dont forget the people convicted were taking drugs out the country not into ,the death penalty is there to save lives .
i suspect some people posting here object in principle of one country executing another countries citizens but unsure ? .
Strangely enough Indonesia is against its own citizens facing the death penalty in another country
i would be in favour of bringing the death penalty back in the UK ,but maybe drug smuggling would not be top of the list ,Murder for sure ,although i suspect Indonesian gov view drug smuggling as a form of taking others lifes .They dont actually execute that many of their own people and it seems just a handful have been executed in each of the last few years (mostly foreign nationals)
In 2007, the Indonesian Constitutional Court (Mahkamah Konstitusi Republik Indonesia) upheld the constitutionality of the death penalty for drug cases, by a vote of six to three.[14] The case was brought by prisoners sentenced to death for drug crimes, including some of the Bali 9, a group of Australian citizens sentenced to prison and the death penalty for drug trafficking in Bali in 2005.
Strangely enough Indonesia is against its own citizens facing the death penalty in another country
i would be in favour of bringing the death penalty back in the UK ,but maybe drug smuggling would not be top of the list ,Murder for sure ,although i suspect Indonesian gov view drug smuggling as a form of taking others lifes .They dont actually execute that many of their own people and it seems just a handful have been executed in each of the last few years (mostly foreign nationals)
In 2007, the Indonesian Constitutional Court (Mahkamah Konstitusi Republik Indonesia) upheld the constitutionality of the death penalty for drug cases, by a vote of six to three.[14] The case was brought by prisoners sentenced to death for drug crimes, including some of the Bali 9, a group of Australian citizens sentenced to prison and the death penalty for drug trafficking in Bali in 2005.
The men were issued with a 72-hour deadline on Saturday to face a 12-man firing squad, and both the Australian government and their families have pleaded with Indonesia to spare the convicted drug smugglers
*Family informed that the excution of two leaders of "bali nine" will take place this Tuesday night local time
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