Calling CMAT

10,000 pubs closed in last the 10 years. We need tax equality between pubs and supermarkets.

i know one pub that needs shutting down

Bito

The Co-op have recently purchased my local, apparently to keep it out of the clutches of Tesco. They're supposed to be leasing it to some brewery or other - thankfully not them w@nkers, Marston's.

Very funny bito.

bet daq after the h box

That was a nice clip Tommy, I know very little about the East End but it's a very similar story South of the river. The amount of decent old fashioned pubs that I would go to in a 6 mile radius from me is a maximum of 5. I just want a decent pint, watch the racing and if there is a ham roll going spare then that'll keep me going. Nearly all the old good places are now flats or God forbid the dreaded gastropub. I don't want to have a pint sitting next to people eating fish and chips, chicken madras or chilli con carne with them paying West End prices for good measure. One of the best pubs near me from say 25 years ago The Paxton, order a pint, burger and chips and you'll be lucky to get much change from a score. That aside, kids running about yelling, babies screaming, pap squirting around the place, not for me thanks all the same.

So many have closed here too it's impossible to estimate the percentage in the last ten years or so, Slippy.

The banning of smoking in pubs really was the death knell here. It's a working class area and there's far more than 25% of the population who smoke here than the national statistics show.

So many old boozers shut down who had a steady clientele of locals who smoked (many of them old people) who just had nowhere to spend their time and have a bit of company any more.
It's a bloody disgrace.

ham roll from a pub ffs, I thought all your meat was carefully sourced.

CMAT,

Far be it for me to intrude on a private thread, but I too have some misty water-coloured memories to share of my times in London pubs (most notably from Newham), and have recounted them on the Jeff Lynne thread.

Slippy, there's a pub in Hanley: 'The Auctioneer' (the main town in Stoke) which would be right up your alley.

It's a 'sports' pub and has loads and loads of tellys showing all the sport that's on each day.

I had a look some months ago as to which company it belonged to and it's a Northern chain (originating in Blackpool, I think) who sell booze cheap (£2.50 a pint for Carling, for instance), show as much live sport as they can, positioning themselves as close as they can to a bookies (Korals is right next door to the one in Hanley).

They sell a limited amount of 'pub grub' for about 2 hours in the afternoon and about 3 hours at night.

Plus, there's a big notice in the window saying children are 'not welcome'!

It does for me!

alun2005   
07 Jan 15 01:32 
CMAT,
Far be it for me to intrude on a private thread, but I too have some misty water-coloured memories to share of my times in London pubs (most notably from Newham), and have recounted them on the Jeff Lynne thread.

Alun, I've never looked at the Jeff Lynne thread, but I shall endeavour to do so after after I have left a few notes concerning pubs, for our friend Tommy.

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2014/sep/04/good-pub-guide-londoners-76p-pint-more-than-herefordshire

The best part of a fiver (sometimes more) for a pint, they can fack off. Right off. It's high time they closed down and made way for some more essential industries such as estate agents, coffee shops and little Waitroses.

Tommy, quite a few of those pubs are/were in Newham.

I could probably name 12 more that have gone quite easily.

3 seconds in - that pub has had 3 names, The Trossachs,  Raffles and Valentinos - Canning Town - converted to flats now

The Anchor - Canning Town - shown as closed down on the video - but was demolished years ago

The Black Lion - Plaistow - Still open - used to be home to West Ham Boxing Club, but I heard the council were going to move them on after  being there for over 50 years.

Denmark Arms - East Ham - still open

Fox and Hounds  - Forest Gate - still open

Greengate - Plaistow - now a Tesco Express

Green Man - Upton Park - demolished - converted to flats now

Railway Tavern - Forest Gate - possibly still open, a fault on google maps street view prevents a view of it. 

Salisbury Arms -  Canning Town - converted into flats.

White Horse - East Ham - still open - got a large bar and used to be a ‘fashionable’ haunt on Saturday nights.  About 100 yards away is ‘The Hammers’ pub, the one that Alf Garnett drinks in, in the film.  It’s a good half a mile from  the football ground


A quick google map search this morning reveals:

Also gone, just in Canning Town, Custom House and Plaistow

The Castle - opposite the Greengate - now a Betfred shop

The Sultan - demolished

The Beaconsfield - demolished 

The Prince Of Wales - converted to flats

The Nottingham Arms - demolished - flats built in its place

The Shakespeare Arms - converted to flats

The Ground Rent Tavern - converted to flats

The Windsor Castle - demolished to make way for the glass monstrosity that is Canning Town bus station
The Chandelier - as above

The Pauls Head - reduced to the outer brick shell - being converted into flats or a large house

The New Gog - been boarded up for the best part of 10 years, still sitting there empty -the site is for sale -  phone 0207 519 5900

The Peacock - closed and demolished - rebuilt half a mile away near the Peacock Gym

Custom House Working Men’s Club -  demolished

St Anne’s Catholic Social Club - demolished

The Artful  Dodger - demolished

Could probably find at least another 10 that have gone.

This street view shot is what‘s left of  The Spotted Dog Inn,   that was once the best pub and steak house in Newham and the surrounding area.  In the  late 1970s  and early 1980s,  at its best, you had to book a table three weeks in advance.  It was a former hunting lodge of  Henry 8th.
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http://i57.tinypic.com/k17oy.jpg



Joint enterprise killed off the pubs

The closure of the docks

The great council house sell off and the mass exodus that followed it

The arrival of  tens of thousands of non-drinking immigrants

The smoking ban

The price of a pint is he biggest reason for pubs closing imo. I always supported the smoking ban, mainly as the cigarette smokers would have to go outside like we potheads had been forced to for years!

Talking about large bars, the Blind Beggar (Whitechapel) must be enormous judging by the number of London cabbies who were in there the night Ronnie Kray shot George Cornell.

The smoking ban was total bollocks.

Slimebag Blair stated that landlords would have a choice of going smoking or non smoking, or if the pub was large enough, having two different bars.

Then the bastard banned it altogether.

Who was he trying to please?

The hordes of asian immigrants who don't go in pubs, or the non-smoking brigade, who were in there anyway?

Nice video Tommy.  Unfortunately I didn't recognise any of them.  Don't think there were any from Stratford, Bow or Leyton where I frequented when working/living in that area.

I don't disagree about the anti-smoking gobsh!tes who cited it as a reason that they didn't frequent pubs, CMAT, but I do agree with the ban in general.

The hordes of Asian immigrants is BS, though!

Why agree with it?

What was wrong with Blair's initial stand that landlords would have a choice.

If they got it wrong and lost customers, they could just switch back to whatever they wanted, whether it be smoking or non-smoking.

I can't see a problem with that.

I did say 'in general' as I can see a case for having smoking establishments, for those who don't care about the dangers of smoking. You can't do half and half though.

The hordes of Asian immigrants is BS, though!

There are no closed down pubs anywhere near where I live now.

So that leaves him appeasing non-smokers.

And as can be clearly seen, that hasn't worked.

Cheap supermarket booze as well as no smoking has killed off pubs in London, and given the problems of street drinking. Perhaps he envisaged this as a way to nick a few quid from Joe public, as you can now be fined in some areas for drinking in the street, even if you're sober.

Whether it was Blair, Brown or Cameron, the ban was going to happen sooner rather than later.

There's some architectural masterpieces on that video, CMAT and Rob.
I particularly liked the pub at 32 seconds in - but couldn't make out the name of it.
It's such a shame they've been lost to redevelopment of pulled down.

I wonder if 'The Railway Tavern(s)' were built by a railway company a century or so ago, as I know of two around here that have the same name and the exact same design as the one shown in the East End video?

Amazing that they're both still open, TT. Surely Stoke-on-Trent could use yet another Costa Coffee and a Tesco's Local?

Gentlemen, I think we are ALL agreed. The Government-driven enforced closure of pubs was a disproportionate and heavy-handed method by which they could stop Queenie W doing her lunchtime pub striptease shows.

Haha! Well, I think they're still open, Easter.
I'm sure Sparky mentioned he'd been in one of them on one of his walks on the way to Froghall last year (or the year before) but I haven't been past it for years.

It looks exactly as the one in the video - right down to the paintwork (or did the last time I saw it).

You've hit the nail on the head, Alun!

Queenies pub, The Iron Bridge Tavern, as it's name implies, was near the iron bridge that separates Canning Town, Newham (E.16) from Poplar, Tower Hamlets (E.14)

The Bridge House in Canning Town, a famed music venue in the 1970s, was just across the bridge from the IBT.

The Bridge House was nowhere any houses, but due to 99% of the clientele being rock fans, it was known that there were drug dealers in there, and it used to get constantly raided by the police. It sits at the end of Stephenson Street, and is a hotel these days. 

Either side of the bridge had different licensing laws.

The IBT got an extra half an hour than the Bridge House, so for those who wanted a last drink to last longer, there was a procession of half pissed pedestrians walking over the bridge between 10-30 and 10-45 p.m. to get their extra pint in.

Tommy Toes   
07 Jan 15 13:21 
There's some architectural masterpieces on that video, CMAT and Rob.
I particularly liked the pub at 32 seconds in - but couldn't make out the name of it.

I don't know that pub, Tommy, it's not anywhere in West Ham, and I'd guess that there weren't that many Manns houses either.

Perhaps it was the restructured next pub in the video, the Bishop Of Bonner. It was up for sale at £1,495,000 but has been removed from the site.

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http://pubshistory.com/LondonPubs/BethnalGreen/BishopBonner.shtml

I was right.

Pretty famous pub in it's day apparently.

It's in Bonner Road, Bethnal Green. (Micky Flanagan territory) 

Where the London Chest Hospital used to sit, or still does sit.

It was a lovely looking pub, CMAT. Wouldn't you just love to explore the second storey?

Blimey, what a great write up on that link of how it became a 'boxing pub' frequented by the likes of Henry Cooper and co.

Correct Tommy. I for one will never forget the tag-team fight there between Henry Cooper and Ronnie Kray vs Wilfred Hyde-White and Robert Morley back in December '63. Morley was a little past his best by that time, but pound for pound still the best bare-knuckle man in the game. Once Wilfred had kicked the opponents in the g00l!es it was a simple matter for Morley to deliver a decent right-hander to them both to bring events to a premature close. A no-contest if ever there was one. Oh what a night indeed, as the Four Tops once sang.

Afterwards, Wilfred and Robert of course had the pick of the mini-skirted lovelies waiting for business under the lamp-posts of Newham High Street, and went off with three each to Claridges for the night. I gather that at least one of the lovelies was actually a woman too so quite a result.

I've got a million stories like this from the mean streets.

It may have been Barking High Street come to think of it.

hahahaha!

Not  a lot of people know this but the real guv'nor of London in those days wasn't Billy Hill, The Krays,  Jack 'The Hat' McVitie or even Eamonn Andrews. No, it was JACK 'The Driver' PARNELL. Many times I've seen him go into Newham pubs and removing the contents of the till while everyone watched, to scared to respond.

Anyone who failed to pay up could expect to put in a solid 4 hours saxophone practice under his merciless gaze.

Show business eh?

I wonder why Bernard Delfont was never mentioned in any of these old time stories.

We still don't like to talk about Bernie found our way. He still has a long reach, even from the grave.

I made a joke once to Bernie's face about his barnet, or his 'syrup' as I referred to it. For my sins, I found myself booked on a tour of the Outer Hebrides for 6 months cleaning up Flanagan and Allen after they had been 'entertained' nightly by their retinue of gimps. Let me assure you, that is a job I would not wish upon any flunky.

I was brought Ray Winstone's new book for christmas, there's a lot of talk about Newham in that.

I read that..a load of old pony

Still in Newham, but not on my old patch...


Avenue Hotel - Manor Park - closed 1980s

The Gatsby - Forest Gate - closed 1993

The Canteen - Stratford - closed 1994

The Green Gate - Stratford - closed 1997 (12 in the bar and it was packed)

The Chobham Arms - Stratford- closed 1997

The **** - East Ham - closed about 1998

The Green Man - Stratford - closed 2000

The Chatsworth Arms - Stratford  - closed 2000

The Falmouth Arms - Stratford - closed 2001

The Bakers Arms - Stratford - closed 2001

Albion Hotel - Upton Park - closed 2002

Adam And Eve - Stratford - closed 2002

The Earl of Derby - Forest Gate - closed 2002

Lord Henniker - Stratford - closed 2003

The Roundhouse  - South East Ham  - closed 2003

The Angel - Stratford - closed 2003

Burnell Arms - Manor park - closed 2003

Eagle and Child - Forest Gate - closed 2004

The Log Cabin - (used to be The Yorkshire Grey) - Stratford - closed 2005

Graving Dock Tavern - Silvertown - closed 2006

The Charleston - Stratford - closed 2005

The California - North Woolwich - closed 2007

The British Lion - Stratford - closed 2008

The Duke's Head - East Ham - closed 2010

The Forest Glen - Forest Gate - closed 2010

The Essex Arms - Stratford - closed 2010

The Hope - Stratford - closed 2010

The Royal Oak - North Woolwich - closed 2010

The Dew Drop Inn - Stratford - Dennis the guv'nor was a good gambler, always paid on time) - closed 2011

The Pigeons - Stratford - closed 2012

Earl of Wakefield - East Ham - closed 2013

Manby Arms - Stratford - closed 2013

The Duke Of Edinburgh - Green Street - closed 2014

Also closed  - year unknown

The Camden Arms - Forest Gate

Odessa Arms - Forest Gate

Freemasons Arms - Forest Gate

Duke Of Fife Fife - Forest Gate (renowned poofs pub)

Three Crown  - North Woolwich (another poofs pub)

The Ram Tavern - Silvertown

Jubilee  - North Woolwich

Kent Arms - North Woolwich

Lord Nelson - North Woolwich

Huntingdon Arms - North Woolwich

The Star - Manor Park (known locally as Manure Park) - converted to flats
 
The Drum And Monkey - East Ham, had its name changed to 'The Perseverance' but was still known to all as 'The Drum' - that's now a community centre.

Earl Of Essex - Manor Park

Three Rabbits - Manor Park (renowned 'trouble' pub)

Other recalled from my patch of Canning Town, Plaistow and Custom House

Duke Of Cumberland - Plaistow - ex-coppers pub behind Plaistow nick - my 2nd favourite haunt - just found out that it was demolished recently

Britannia - Plaistow

Coach and Horses - Plaistow

The Royal Oak - Canning Town - home of the gym of Frank Bruno and Terry Lawless - now a Bairstow Eves estate agent office

Rose Of Denmark - Canning Town - closed 1993

Flying Scud - Canning Town - closed 1995

Churchills - Canning Town - closed 1999

The Barge - Canning Town - closed 2002

Pitts Head - Canning Town - closed 2008

Golden Lion - Plaistow - closed 2011

There are still more but my fingers ache

Jesus Christ....somebody give this man a job.

s.kenbo    07 Jan 15 18:06 
I was brought Ray Winstone's new book for christmas, there's a lot of talk about Newham in that.

One of my sons-in-law has been on karaoke with Ray Winstone.

Neither of them can sing.

The Royal Oak - Canning Town - home of the gym of Frank Bruno and Terry Lawless


CMAT the legend that was Jack Bodell, his training gym was also the Royal Oak up here.

There's a difference, I never knocked Jack Bodell over.

Will never forget the Mighty Jack Bodell. A boyhood staple. A man from Swadlincote no less. A fact I've probably remembered from a time before I even learned how to do a  Hand Shandy, and no doubt it will be the very final fact I process in my fading brain.

Here he is against Danny McAlinden in the early 70s. Blink though and you'll miss it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLJhiaqkf_o

he was from Newhall

they always put Swad in the records Alun because it was the nearest town, he was actually born in a large house in Newhall at the rear of the Hope and Anchor pub. I think he is something like my 5th cousin removed, he once tried to tap off with my mum and my old man knocked him spark out and hid him in some bushes in Swad bus park as he thought he'd killed him. My great grandad used to help out with the training at the gym, and he said Jack had an older brother who was a better boxer (I know that's not hard) but he had no interest in going pro. Jack now lives in Coventry, used to come over quite often but not seen him for a year now.

I remember this one quite clearly.

Jack v Jerry Quarry, who had mixed it with the best of them.

I was at my mates house and we had it on the radio. About 15 seconds after it started we found we had no ashtray in the room.

I was closest to the kitchen so I went out to find it.

By the time I did, and got back to the living room, the fight was over.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dfypx1zTRuQ

Cheers BB. You've just smashed one of the 'facts' that I held most sacred. You've just unwittingly demolished one of the building blocks of my life. I am a broken man.

he was a boozer and a womaniser CMAT, the brief glory he had went to his head. Kenny could have taken him in his prime.

sorry Alun, we'll call it Swad if you want it's only half a mile away.

The Hope and Anchor was incidentally a former venue at which some of my favourite 70s artistes played (Elvis Costello and the Attractions, XTC, to name but two).

Don't tell me, you're going to reveal that's a load of baloney and they actually played in your great grand-dad's shed, right? 

I knew I had heard the name before but I was thinking on the boxing lines. The pub is one of the few left now in the village of Newhall and it is just called the Anchor now. Another useless fact for you is the village now has only 4 pubs, at one time there were 60!!!! 60 pubs in a small village some towns would love that. No body gigged in grandad's shed as he hated all music.

Ah come on BB, he'd surely have loved this one. I feel confident he'd have been rocking the joint in his ripped drainpipes and gobbling at everyone onstage in 1977.

XTC : "I'm Bugged"   recorded at the Hope and Anchor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cefo-L7koNg

honestly alun he hated all music for some reason, even classical. He used to watch Top Of the Pops with no volume on. (in the 70's) and sit there p1ssing himself with laughter at the acts prancing around on stage. I must admit though he did have a point some of them did look like helmets.

Bunch of east end lads who formed in the 70s in The Bridge House, Canning Town (and still play today)

This was in 2007 in The Prince Albert, Plaistow, which is now a mini-supermarket. (Missed that off my list)

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGZP6CmXo54

The Colby Arms opposite Gypsy Hill train station is one of the few pubs that I go to sometimes to watch the racing, The Flying Pickets recorded their hit Only You in there. It has had a lick of paint since then but not much else has changed thankfully.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgDKtLPp46s

I was in a pub sarf of the river many years ago, just for one night, can't recall where it was, but it was called The Dun Cow.

Cheers, I hadn't seen that RDB band before.

Old Kent Road cmat, the famous pub in that road was the Thomas A Becket where they had the boxing gym upstairs, two of my brothers fought out of there. Bermondsey wasn't a place I ever used to go to that often if I could help it.

The Old Kent Road eh...

The cheapest square on the Monopoly Board.

Nothing from east London on the Monopoly Board.

The new version has no railway stations, but does have 4 mosques.

alun2005   
07 Jan 15 22:51 
Cheers, I hadn't seen that RDB band before.

Imo, they were the best band to ever appear at the Bridge House, and had a huge following.

Here's Dennis Stratton and Dave Edwards (both from Canning Town) doing 'Comfortably Numb' in 2009

I felt sorry for Davy in the 70s short, tubby and not going to win any good looking contests, but he was a good musician,  and by fack he could rock a guitar.

Plenty of stuff with them in videos on youtube.

 

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCPRBhKeEok