Another major airliner gone down!

Correction -16 kids on board.

Another correction -got it right now. 162 on board Including 16 kids and 1 infant.

The missing jet had requested a "deviation" from the flight path due to storm clouds, AirAsia said.

2014  Update - accidents and incidents involving commercial aircraft...

    February 16 – Nepal Airlines Flight 183, a de Havilland Canada DHC-6, crashes near Khidim about 74 kilometres southwest of Pokhara, Nepal, killing all 18 people on board.
    February 17 – Ethiopian Airlines Flight 702, a Boeing 767, is hijacked by the co-pilot while en route from Addis Ababa, Ethiopia, to Rome, Italy, but lands safely at Geneva, Switzerland. All 202 passengers and crew aboard are unharmed.
    March 8 – Malaysia Airlines Flight 370, a Boeing 777 en route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing with 227 passengers and 12 crew on board, disappears from radar over the Gulf of Thailand.
    July 17 – Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, a Boeing 777 en route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, is shot down over eastern Ukraine, killing all 283 passengers and 15 crew on board in the deadliest civilian airliner shootdown incident.
    July 23 – TransAsia Airways Flight 222, an ATR-72 en route from Kaohsiung to Penghu, Taiwan, crashes during go-around, killing 48 of the 58 people on board.
    July 24 – Air Algérie Flight 5017, a chartered Swiftair McDonnell Douglas MD-83 operating for Air Algérie en route from Burkina Faso to Algiers, crashes in the northern Mali desert after disappearing from radar approximately 50 minutes after takeoff, killing all 112 passengers and 6 crew members on board.
    August 10 – Sepahan Airlines Flight 5915, a HESA IrAn-140 (an Antonov An-140 built under license) crashes shortly after takeoff from Mehrabad International Airport, Iran, killing 39 of the 48 people on board.
    December 28– Indonesia AirAsia Flight 8501, an Airbus A320 was en route from Surabaya to Singapore with 155 passengers and 7 crew on board, when contact was lost with the aircraft.

Tommy Toes to be questioned?

called search off for the night.
Seems a bit early, yes its dark but surely they could do something?
that suggests to me they aint confident of finding survivors
how do you tell the family at the airport that they aint searching for em?

Any more of this nonsense and I am gonna refuse to fly again.  Is that three major flights, with proper westernised airlines, gone down in a year.  Or have I missed one?  Fk that.

You didnt look very hard Leopard.  Fair enough if you look and miss it, but just saying you couldnt be bothered to look properly so started your own thread.... Well.

Here, found it

Just got in before me.

Surprising how few posts.  Are we all "missing aeroplane" fatigued after just two in a year?

rob_dylan • December 28, 2014 7:12 PM GMT
Any more of this nonsense and I am gonna refuse to fly again.  Is that three major flights, with proper westernised airlines, gone down in a year.  Or have I missed one?  Fk that.

total worldwide aviation deaths in 2014 = 1212

total UK deaths resulting from car crashes, 2014 = over 2000

youre better off travelling by plane

Not on the A1 your not.

President Widodo gives press conference with 20 people round him.....10 bodyguards maybe?

According to The Economist, Jokowi Widodo "has a penchant for loud rock music" and once owned a bass guitar signed by Robert Trujillo of heavy-metal band Metallica.[51] He claims to be a fan of Metallica, Lamb of God, Led Zeppelin and Napalm Death, a grindcore band that is known for their utilitarian, liberal political views. Napalm Death also congratulated the president on their Facebook fan page recently.[52] In 2 November 2013, while he was the Governor of Jakarta, he was seen in the rock festival Rock in Solo, at Surakarta, in casual dress. It was the second time he was seen in this rock festival, with the first being in 2011's Rock in Solo.

Travelling by plane is not as they claim the safest form of transport,it is the most dangerous...it is covered up in they way they calculate the statistics.

Travelling by plane is not as they claim the safest form of transport

Not for a second contesting what you say, but is there a source of info that we can look at please?

Travelling by Bus is far more dangerous. It's full of drunk crackers vomiting their kebabs.

I should think it is the safest by chances of death per mile travelled.

Aunty Post it is simply in how they do the mathematics. The safety record eg when comparing aircraft to car travel is calculated on the miles traveled not on the no. of journeys.
Therefore if a plane travels say 5000 miles that may be only one trip and yet it could be many hundreds of car journeys over maybe a year.
Therefore it is almost inevitable that plane travel will appear to be very safe when using miles traveled when in fact it is not, just the opposite.
It is a subtle way of covering up the facts..the statistics should be based on no. of journeys, not miles travelled.

are you seriously claiming that there are more air accidents per journey, than car accidents per journey ????

Who mentioned accidents?

The point is nearly everyone has been involved in some sort of car accident..but this not make cars less safe, quite the opposite.

This is really interesting and a classic case of how stats are used and abused to make your point depending on which side of the fence you're standing. I looked up the numbers and sure enough the air travel stats are completely misleading because they're based on miles travelled. A more accurate measure would be by time/hours but even that isn't reliable, so per journey is the fairest way to compare them.

It turns out that there are a lot more fatalities (12-15 times more) in air travel then car travel, per journey. So car travel is safer then ?   NO, and here's why.... Air travel journeys have around 100 times more people than car journeys, on average. You can argue with the number (I'm basing it on average of around 200 passengers on a flight versus 2 people in a car) but you can be sure it's an awful lot bigger than 12-15 times as many. When you factor this in, air travel is much safer than car travel.

And let's not get started on motorbikes where fatality rates absolutely dwarf all the other transport modes put together

The no. of people in an aircraft should not be factored in, it is the no of fatalities per journey that any individual may make. It is not logical to say because 100 people died in an aircrash and 110 people died in 50 car crashes then air travel is safer.

No man has ever been killed in a car crash while wearing one blue sock, one red sock, one size 8 shoe, one size 12 wellington boot, a ra-ra skirt and an alice band, while eating cheese on toast.

Conform and live longer.

Simples.

(I would, but I can't stand cheese)

of course it is.

It's like gambling. play the percentages. There's less chance of an accident/fatality on a plane than in a car.

^logical, I mean.

The % say there is a higher chance of injury/fatality on a plane than any other form of public transport.

Including cars.

Look at it this way say there was one aircraft accident and one car accident, and in both 2 people died. the aircraft had travelled 1000 miles and the car 10 miles. Would you then claim, as they do, that air travel was 100 times safer then cars

No, of course not. The distance travelled is irrelevant.

But you do have to factor in the number of people being carried.
Put it this way, if cars carried the same number of passengers as planes, the number of fatalities would rival world wars.

That's a very good point Platini.

The one thing I am thinking is that if air travel was that dangerous, how do the cabin crew com to terms with it?

Cars carry many more passengers every day, just not in the same car. This is why you must base it on the number of people, no. of trips.
If cars were bigger and carried more people there would be less off them and therefore less accident.(and maybe would be called a bus)

The most important statistic isnt causualties per mile or casualties per journey but casualties per hour.  Simples.

We can argue about stats all day long. But I just know I feel safer in a plane. Roads are dangerous places because there are too many nutters who either can't drive properly or won't drive sensibly. I've seen loads of road accidents, and a couple of fatalities on the road - and I don't even drive !

Exactly, and aircraft fly much quicker than cars travel and people spend more time in cars then on planes.

Per hour planes are safer than cars.  That is the important statistic.

Buses are safest generally.  Which is good news for me.

yep. buses are safest. (excluding nightbuses of course   )

motorbikes are the most dangerous by a country mile
bicycles are 2nd most dangerous

The problem of comparing accident rates between different modes of transport has a long history of circularity. Try comparing cars with bicycles and watch the same problems come up. Throw in pedestrians and.....

Perhaps better to isolate the modes and compare each with itself over time. It doesn't tell us which is safer, but it does tell us whether things are getting better or worse. In the cases of both car and air travel safety has improved.

Per hour planes are less safe than cars, trains, or buses.

No one flys a ryanair to go to the shops

Wikipedia says 30 deaths per billion hours for air travel.  130 per billion hours per car.

Flying at a rough estimate has between 30 and 40 times more fatalities per hour spent as driving.

And you accuse the airlines of being sly with statistics.  Pot calling kettle black.

When compared on a mile per mile basis flying is about 9 times more dangerous...and this is taking into account pedestrians killed in car accidents.

You're trying to compare modes of transport which travel at different speeds, over widely varying distances, carry very different numbers of passengers and which are not alternatives to each other in any case.

Which one's best - Usain Bolt or Stephen Hawking?

Flight magazine 2004...Is flying really safer than driving ?

fatalities per 1000 hours flown or driven(USA)
2.1 general aviation
1.25 commercial aviation
0.06 motor vehicles

This makes general aviation 35 times more fatal than driving and
airlines 21 times more fatal.

Are you multiplying the aviation figure by the number of passengers per flight?  If so why?  That is just fiddling with statistics to prove your point. 

I have possibly spent 500 or more hours on planes, by your stats I should have died.

The no. of passengers per flight is not part of the equation, it is simply hours spent flying compared to hours spent driving.

“There are three degrees or classes of lies; there are lies, damned lies and statistics.” ......apparently

In a couple of weeks i set off for a jaunt- 4 x Malaysian long haul flights + 2 x shorter Air Asia.

Oh well.....

lmfao, are you taking in Singapore on your jaunt.

Strangely I enjoy flying and don`t like driving.

I'd rather use Malaysian airlines every time I fly rather than use a bus. At least on a plane I know I am safe from drunken chavs who can't handle their drink.

Rob you can relax the figures should read per 100 thousand hours and not 1000, sorry my mistake

boxingfox-

possibly - we'll probably nip over to east malaysia from kl - but its been a while since i've looked at singapore so we could visit for a few days
years back i was involved in somework on Santosa and i've half a mind to see the result!

KL to Medan in Indonesia is 1 hour flight, cost me about thirty quid.  Forty quid taxi journey to Bukit Lawang in the middle of the sumatran rainforest.  Accommodation is peanuts.  Forty quid for a two day trek to see Orangutans and plenty of other animals in the wild.  That is what I would do if I had a few days spare in KL.

Wiki says that the ratio is 130/30 deaths per unit time cars/plane. 

Your figures sound very dubious.

This Air Asia Airbus 32O has indeed crashed into the sea with at least  40 bodies recovered so far .

Early speculation surrounds it climbing to avoid a thunderstorm being and a suggestions it was not travelling fast enough in the climb and could have stalled resulting in complete loss of control .Plane has a good record up to now ,hopefully the black boxes are recovered soon and a crash investigation is completed quickly although a year would be a minimum .Although a preliminary report could be out after 6 months or so .Must still be plenty hardware in the area from the still missing MH-370 but not sure what sort of depth the sea is .

total worldwide aviation deaths in 2014 = 1212

total UK deaths resulting from car crashes, 2014 = over 2000

youre better off travelling by plane
________________

most car deaths are self inflicted

I'd sooner go down and die in a plane crash than a  fast car crash....
I always feel a lot more vunerable going 70+ on a motorway than on a plane because of someone else's carp driving taking me out.

tbf pauly ,you're  safer on the motorway .

try driving around Wales for  a week - total lunatics in that place  -  not safe

whats the per journey figures ,there is 34m vehicles in the uk .
would really only be fair liking commercial  passenger vehicles ,Taxis and buses and trains (professionally driven)in like for like journeys imo ,the stat of miles traveled is massively  biased in air travels favor.


would like to see the true plane v car pollution stats as well ,one plane taking off must be equal to thousands and thousands  of car journeys .

Of course flying is more dangerous than driving.  The stats rolled out to the contrary are always bollocks of the first order.  In one you're travelling up to 100mph in a metal box on the ground, in the other you're travelling up to 500mph in a metal tube 35,000ft in the air.  Any old fool can see which is more dangerous, but the airline statiticians like to put a comforting spin on things to suit their own ends.

that argument doesn't work because of traffic
it's other cars that make driving more dangerous.

Oi, Oi, Tony Fernandez Air asia owner off loaded nearly a million shares in Air Asia travel passenger insurance company days before the accident ?

http://www.tarnews.co.za/airasia-ceo-tony-fernandes-cynically-dumped-shares-days-before-flight-disappeared/

Fernandes decision to dump the shares less than a week before AirAsia Flight QZ8501 disappeared over the Java Sea prompted some to speculate that he may have had prior knowledge of the incident.

“Did Fernandes know his company stock was about to take a hit? The timing is suspicious,” asks Heavy.com, adding, “If so, it indicates knowledge of an impending attack on AirAsia.”

The International Business Times adds that the move has prompted many to voice the theory that Fernandes, “possibly knew about an impending attack on one of the company’s aircraft.”

Quite amazing the rubbish people will believe, ample evidence on this thread that the working classes are not capable of logical thought!

S*d that....what about the new info???

What, the info of the dead passenger recovered wearing a life jacket even though there was no emergency message sent out by the captains to air traffic control ?

Shirley should compare like for like: numbers killed on car journey to airport vs. killed on that plane journey.

transfer window opening for epl maybe Fernandez wanted to free up some funds for that

the only fair way to do it is to compare time spent in each - i mean you wouldn't go to the supermarket by airbus ,or drive to Sydney .

everyone on earth (except airline staff)  spends more of their life in a car than a plane  .

i would say if you spent equal time in both you would still die sooner in a car .

  maybe you'd reach 4,000 years of age or 50 lifetimes ?  before death  in a car ,20,000 years maybe  in a plane - assuming around 1 hour per day in each .

maybe someone knows the figures

In the end :

It doesn't matter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transportation_safety_in_the_United_States
_______________

minute for minute , the likelihood of death is around 2 to 5 x greater in the car  (on an airport run ,depending on the route to the airport) )

driving around town would be safer at the lower speeds i'd guess

so i'm gonna say around 3x  overall as most driving time  is urban  driving

Coachbuster the wiki statistics have been incorrectly calculated.

Taking their US figures..
fatalities 1.5 per 100 million vehicle miles and
fatalities 1.9 per 100,000 flt hrs

If we take 40 miles per hour for cars this equates to 2.5
million vehicle hours, therefore
1.5 deaths per 2.5 million vehicle hours and
1.9 deaths per 100,000 flt. hours.

Although there may be more fatalities when a single aircraft crashes this should not be taken into account because also more do not when an aircraft travels safely.

lfc - are you not getting confused with the flight figures ?


commercial airliners are safer , other aircraft are less safe

f uck me, one of the most boring dialogues I've ever read on here, I would imaging most of you are either stamp collectors or plane spotters

Buses and trams are both safer modes of transport than Planes.

So planes being the safest mode of transport is indeed a myth.

They are infinitely safer than driving though whichever method you use to work it out whether it be miles or time.

If you drive you have a 1 in 48 chance of your method of dying being a car crash!

Even if true a 1 in 48 chance of dying in a car crash would not of its self make driving more dangerous than flying or even buses or trams.

Malaysia  alone to have one disappear  and one shot down must be a big odds but Southeast Asia to lose THREE  in a year must be lottery odds and more