Mohammad Ali aka Cassius Clay

Andy Peters is good in interviews. Do you like him Rob? i do

You could have spelled his name correctly!

Andi Peters

Sorry

AG, I think Kenny was referring to Muhammad Ali.

Ali is miles in front of any other sports person in all respects.

It was Rob that spelled that wrong, not me Fox.

He was a great fighter - arguably the best. He was also a tremendous personality but much of what he said was written for him.

I suspect he was taken for a lot of money by those around him. People on here will probably know better than me on that.

I know AG, let Kenny sort this out.

Kenny couldn`t sort out his sock draw

Just like the way he was clever in boxing.  Typical politician in interviews.  Determined but ultimately thick.  If he had any real powere god knows what would have happened.

kenny will not be a happy bunny

"much of what he said was written for him." he was a trailblazer,  paving the way for Ant & Dec

I think he is on steroids, looks bigger than David `toey` Hayes these days.

Thick? He was as clever as he needed to be until his illness took over.

It's getting dangerous in here I think I'll plead the 5th.

I wouldn`t fluck with Andi Peters. You see the size of him these days?

Don't know how to answer that AG, without incriminating myself

Tyson Still the best I have ever seen.  He wasn't even human.  He was less than six foot ffs but if he connected it was goodnight,

I've never seen anyone who could throw as many hooks and uppercuts with so much speed and power as Tyson but imho, Ali would have beaten him.

Watch Tyson/Tucker and Tyson/Douglas (both when he was in his prime)

Sonny Liston was viewed as an animal but Ali took care of him. Don't think Liston was in the same class as Tyson but I think Ali was a clever enough boxer to beat Tyson although obviously it's only conjecture.

I concur Aka, comparisons like these are futile, but great fun Ali was truly great and more importantly could take a dig after Foreman practically lifted "Smokin" Joe off his feet with his punching power everyone thought Ali was going to be murdered in Kinchasa. The rest as they say is glorious boxing history.

Tyson/tucker.. Are you habing a laugh?  Just watched it and Tyson could have had him any time be wanted.   All that does is reinforce my theory that Tyson could have annihilated anyone when he was at his peak.

Tyson/tucker.. Are you habing a laugh?  Just watched it and Tyson could have had him any time be wanted.   All that does is reinforce my theory that Tyson could have annihilated anyone when he was at his peak.

Terrible (then topical) joke,..........On one uf Ali's many interviews, Parkinson; Muhammed what do you think of Mandy Rice-Davies, Ali Can't really say.................Haven't seen her box.

must have been one of the few that hadn't seen it then

Funny story about The Ali v Liston fight.
The fight was shown live in some cinemas. My brother and two of his mates paid fortunes for tickets and travelled to Glasgow (80 miles) to see the fight in the Odeon in the  town centre.
Were there from 11ish watching minor bouts until the 'big one' at 3am. Lasted half a round. [:laugh: My brother was pig sick.

Is it fair to assume then that Tyson, at his peak, could knock anyone out.  I mean literally anyone, even if they wwre wearing armour and  sh1t

Rob - you couldn't have watched the whole fight - it went the disatance

^^^^to Aka.

Nick... I am too old and tired to change my mind.  I did actually watch that video.  Half heartedly.  Tyson.  At his peak.  Would have spat anyone out for breakfast,  including Ali.  Including Mayweather.

Aka he literally frightened the sh1te out of Liston, and completely Psyched him out very clever stuff, rob you are completely wrong about him being thick, Tyson......now that's a completely different kettle of thickness.

He was thick(brainwashed muslem) but a good talker.  A tricky juxtaposition, but the overriding theory is that he was actually thick.  And Tyson would have chewed him up and spat him out.  But that isnt my point, my point is he is growing on me.

Thick? I remember This is your Life  and the Has he found my bike  quip.
Too long to explain but anyone who saw it will know what I'm talking about.

He wasn’t that bright, otherwise he wouldn’t have been so influenced and taken to the cleaners by that nation of islam lot.

Hasn’t been a heavyweight in his league since. I probably rate Frazier as better than Tyson. How many could take a punch like Ali did at the end of the first Frazier fight and still get up and finish the fight. The likes of Lewis would take a week to wake up after a shot like that.
His speed and movement before he got banned was unbelievable.

And Liston had beaten Floyd Patterson who they were promoting as invincible.

He wasn’t that bright, otherwise he wouldn’t have been so influenced and taken to the cleaners by that nation of islam lot.

Ali was motivated by the atrocious way that black people were treated in the States at that time. In his prime he was as sharp as a tack.

OK rob the fact that we hold differing opinions on this is unimportant. the important thing is both of them have made an indelible mark on the public psyche the world over, Ali more than any other sportsman I can think of.

Good post from pawras.

I was alluding to the nation of islam in an earlier post.

Fwiw, by his own admission, Ali didn't have a clue when he took the aptitude tests for the US Army.

Iawn, he did not want to go to Vietnam, flunk the test no brainer!!. that has at the very least a possibility??. he was as sharp as a sharpshooter from sharpsville, jeeze im regressing to the 80s, time for more wine.

yeah he was motivated by the way black people were treated , but at the same time he should have recognised what a bunch of shysters those who latched onto him were.

I'm not saying he was a plank like Tyson but he was no Bobby Fischer either

boxingthefox - yes, that is certainly a possibilty and that did occur to me.

Have you read his biography by Thomas Hauser? Ali was quoted as saying that the questions might as well have been written in a foreign language. But, as I said, you could be right.

Fair play mate I'm working in the dark on this one.

What is irrefutable is that he made boxing an acceptable sport to the general public.
I can't think of any other sportsman that has made as big an impact in their sport as Ali did in boxing.

Initially he was extremely unpopular in the USA for refusing the draft but when the tide of public opinion turned against the Vietnam War, he bacame a hero.

Ali would have far been too quick, strong and intelligent for Tyson to cope with. For me Ali would have stopped him inside the distance, preferably in a 15 rounder so Tyson would know he was looking for a haymaker when miles behind on points in the latter rounds and just being picked off. Ali would have beaten him absolutely no question in my mind.

None Aka, people in Britain,and elsewhere staying up half the night to catch his fights was a first on a global scale.

Ali was streetwise but not an educated chap

Intelligent in a boxing sense AG, I'm not saying I'd want Ali in my University Challenge team. Amyone who thinks he wouldn't have put Tyson to the sword is seriously deluded.

Ali still buzzing, got us all talking, and sharing opinions and memories, and I don't mean in the "usual chit chat" fashion.

Something Lenny Henry said which I can relate to: "My dad would wake me up in the middle of the night to watch Ali beat someone up".

He was the best I've seen and have no doubt he'd have stopped Tyson.

SlippyBlue
Ali would have far been too quick, strong and intelligent for Tyson to cope with. For me Ali would have stopped him inside the distance, preferably in a 15 rounder so Tyson would know he was looking for a haymaker when miles behind on points in the latter rounds and just being picked off. Ali would have beaten him absolutely no question in my mind.

Spot on summation.

AG, you're not wrong, but being black in America in Louisville demanded all your attention and intellect. I imagine??. sure when he became world famous he could have changed but he had fame,(world fame)and the attention of leeches, women, promoters, etc, he did not have the time afforded to Robben Island inmates (for example) to contemplate everything. I for one would not be too harsh given the circumstances/times.

Slippy stop pinching my thoughts I don't know anyone who has actually lived through both era's who thinks Tyson would have been anything but inferior to Ali in every department save power, but as Foreman, Frazier and others found power is not enough. It's not called boxing for nothing!!.

Do you know why it's called boxing?

Do you know why it's called boxing?

It was easier to say and spell than pugilism?

the middle English word "box" means "blow" or "hit", later it was defined as "blow by fist". It has nothing to do with "the box" where you can "box........OK copy and paste I'm a one fingered typist, It's easier, I meant in in the sense of the sport evolving from the "Gentleman Jim Sullivan days, But you you knew that you rascal you.

Ask any Fox.

Fox, with both men in their pomp Ali would have jabbed Tyson's head off. Tyson would have a punchers chance but would be disillusioned at constant stinging punches and no doubt get cut up and would lose composure. No brainer for me this one.

2/13 Ali
5/1 Tyson
50/1 draw

Far too generous with those odds, or just roping the dopes in??









I'll get me gum shield.

Ali would have made Tyson look silly, Tyson would not have mentally be able to cope with him imo. I always thought it was a great shame we probably never saw Ali at his peak during his exile from boxing.

Ali didn't have an education but he was a pretty sharp fella even without Bundini rhymes.

People who make outlandish claims about Tyson were taken in by the hype and don't know boxing simple as that. Tyson was a bully who shrunk when faced with someone who didn't shrivel in front of him. Anybody with a good jab and balls of steel would have beaten him. Ali would have beaten him. A prime Liston would have beaten him. A prime Holmes would have beaten him and Lewis would have beaten him. Holyfield would have always beaten him. Foreman circa 72 would have thrown him over the top rope. A fight against a peak Frazier I'd have close with Tyson slight favourite. You cant get away from the whipping Buster Douglas lay down on a 24 year old Tyson. From first bell to when Tyson was smashed apart he stuck that jab and right cross in his face and Tyson didn't have an answer.

ITTG, how many sportsmen at world level, have come back from an enforced layoff. There are some on here who know Ali was a one off, amazing athlete.

Eeternaloptimist, please cease and desist, do not introduce fact, and obvious common sense to this discussion, otherwise it will die. I thank you, didn't A A say that a lot ???? only going on old clips you know.

a great boxer but like so many of them not a great human being

Tyson would have made an unbelievable mixed martial arts fighter he was in his prime now. He would beat Ali in MMA but not boxing, not in their prime because Ali would never stop moving and dodging but then he would pounce. The best heavyweight there has ever been for sure.

BB, are you talking about Ali, and his disgraceful "whats my name" bout, and his racist views. No defense for that, but generally we are talking about his sporting prowess.

Anyway. I'm boxed out, GN and GL to all.

Tyson in MMA? I'm sorry AG but have you seen those heavyweight critters in action in that sport? Tyson would be carried out on a stretcher sharpish after a roundhouse or two and being pinned down and seriously taken apart. He would get properly slaughtered by a top flight MMA heavyweight. It's a completely different form of combat. I have to disagree with you there old stick.

Nite Fox,

no boxing I mean the way he treated his many wives

Tyson would have been a car crash in MMA. For a short heavy he was bad enough on the inside with very average strength and tended to get tied up easily. If he didn't KO someone on the way in he would have been taken down quickly in MMA and it would have been game over.

AG, none of them would have beaten the best "street fighter" of all time Bruce Lee, he utilized every form of fighting to perfect his art. I'm offski, GN.

It was pretty unedifying when Ali did that to Terrell but the best fighters have to have a nasty streak when they get insde the ropes and Ali was no exception.

I've seen some very interesting interviews with Chuck Norris about Bruce Lee. Norris was very complimentary about Lee's abilities but I got the distinct impression that he saw him more as an actor than a straight up fighting man.

I think I'm right in saying he was the Hong Kong Cha Cha champion as a young man.

old Chuck used to train with Bruce as did Mike Stone who knocked off Elvis's wife, he said nobody could beat Brucie pound for pound

Ali lost a few fights, and also got the benefit of the doubt in a few others he probably lost.

anyway Chuck Norris is a wuss Marco Pierre White would do Chuck no bother

EO, AG is usually a very sensible chap but that was not exactly his finest moment of judgement, imo.

MMA heavyweight champion Dude - No offers.
Tyson - Name your price, for me.

Tyson had no MMA training to  any degree to fight within that category, i was supposing if he did. In my mind he would be made for the game. He was always adamant in a street fight he was unbeatable. Obviously this opens up another debate.

it's hard to compare fighters from different eras the same as it is footballers

I'd back Marco Pierre-White to make the better lobster thermidor out of the two, not sure he'd beat Chuck in a slug fast though B-B to be honest unless he speared him in the peepers with his chopsticks in the first few seconds and even then he'd be big odds against in my book.

Revised odds..Blue.sports.com

Ali 1/16
Tyson 12/1
Draw 150/1

Messi the greatest

slippy Marco would only have to flash his evil gaze and Norris, Tyson and Ali would all sh1t themselves

anyway what you doing up this late?

whilst agreeing that ali would beat Tyson.

at is peak Tyson would always have a punchers chanced

an interview I saw made me laugh when tyson said everybody has a game plan till they get punched in the face.

My bro the train driver is staying at my house tonight as he can't get back to Bedford and he won't be in til about 2.30 am and have to be awake to let him in. They pay his taxi fare in the morning from Dulwich, much cheaper and easier for him than Bedford. I'll have to get him a key cut..Bloody shattered though, it's a stressful world I live in to be honest. I haven't even shaved for a week, I look like Colonel Sanders now with my grey whiskers. I never signed up for that mate.

If you are staying up as well then Mike Leigh's film "Naked" is starting on Film4.

Slippy don't worry about shaving, there's loads looking for Santa's this time of year.

ah well I'm off now just stopped up to watch the Football League show. laters.

Indeed Paddy, dark on the face but the chinny chin chin has decided to go white for some reason. I'll look like Roy Keane in about a week at this rate.

Nite B-B, speak to ya later, sweet dreams mate.

Slippy it's an easy mantra, " who's been good" followed by " ho ho ho ". Of course if you are not in one of our Afro Caribbean areas, where "ho ho ho " means something different and is more expensive than buying every kid in the world  a present.
Hope your Mum has a good Christmas, we have spoke before. Irish ba5tard or black and tan, you can't win sometimes.
The thing is your family know what you are, here or in the "old country ".
Have a Jamesons over Christmas, you know you want to.

dreamed last night that Ali died

Something Lenny Henry said which I can relate to: "My dad would wake me up in the middle of the night to watch Ali beat someone up".

He was the best I've seen and have no doubt he'd have stopped Tyson.

My dad would wake me up in the middle of the night to watch Tyson beat someone up.  Normally Frank Bruno.

I heard on TalkSport this morning that Ali has been admitted to hospital with a bout of pneumonia. Let's hope he gets over it very rapidly.