Statistics on Immigration

Labour have said in the past they see no upward limit on immigration, Tories
talk a lot about curbing it but  cant whilst we are in the E.U. This is going
to be an ever increasingly crowded island.

something will give.

standard of living is terrible in the uk.
house prices dicatate that.

if you have $$$$ id move abroad for a much higher standard

but at some point the eu countries will pick up employmentwise and their house prices are then well priced and then the real sh1t hits the fan in the uk.

a massive housign collapse

Different story in Scotland where it's generally accepted that we need another 500k in the next few years to sustain the economy.

There's always going to be a housing collapse according to some on here.

Forgetting the pro's & cons  of immigration as an Island we have a population of 64 million at what point is it fair to say we have become overcrowded ?

bix
i think in the past it was all based on the fact what goes up must come down....

if people think properly and underatand whats happening in europe you can clearly see prices there are very attractive atm.
when the job markets improve in these countries you can see a lot of eu immigrants opting for a higher standard of living.

as we are over crowded and on lower wages there is a problem

Havent got a clue how the housing market works. All I know is it keeps going up. Flats that were 60K in the south east 10 years ago are now 120-130K

My mates father-in-law got his 3 bed house in east London for £390 in the early 1960s.     

I paid £11,675 for my first 3 bed house in Cambridgeshire in 1980.

My last house in London I paid £140k for in 2002/3. It sold for £245k in 2005.

The bloke who bought it sold it for £325k about 4 or 5 few years later. 

And that's the cheap end of London.

Forgetting the pro's & cons  of immigration as an Island we have a population of 64 million at what point is it fair to say we have become overcrowded ?

And that surely is the problem. We are now ridiculously overcrowded in the UK. Just too many people in a small area. It's the first thing that hits you when you return to this country from abroad, particularly if you're driving and you get off the ferry to the sheer hell of our traffic.

same old lies,keep repeating what you read in the media and people believe it.

there used to be 9 of us living in a terraced house when i grow up. people used to live in overcrowded house's much worse than today,but people didn't complain about it then and blame the immigrants. stop blaming hard working immigrants and blame the bankers who caused the recession.

This country is largely empty. Just take a look at any map. That doesn't mean we shouldn't limit migration, but with so many areas underpopulated, think about how we can encourage immigrants to move to areas with lower population and greater need for people

many countries that have had mass immigration like the USA and Israel have thrived on it,so whats the problem. immigration is actually a good thing,it shows the economy is doing good,people don't go to countries that have no jobs.

people don't want to live in the sticks,because there are no jobs there,thats why so many people live in cities.

that is the most stupid post i have ever seen clungehungry, by you and anyone.

Gordon Brown stated that open boarders would lead to to a thriving country, turned out he destroyed a generation.

Controlled immigration is better than sliced bread.

The pertinent question is with 2 million people unemployed, why do we require immigration.
you may say its for jobs people are untrained for but statistics say otherwise, most immigration has been low paid unskilled jobs,
We therefore have a failure of long term planning of government to blame for skill shortages.
You may say there are too many people who dont want to work ,this again is a failure of governance.
Wages are stagnating unless you are a ceo of an ft 100 company.
Wwwe require no more immigration we require competent efficient government.

Two sergeants with families leave the British Army and Romanian Army after eight years service, today.

They both settle with their families in say Peterborough and take identical full-time job, 40 hrs a week, £8.00 an hour.

Due to the benefit system the Romanian worker gets an extra £60/week tax free compared to the Brit in his first year back working in civvie street.

Fair play to the immigrant from the poorer country, I'd come here too with that sort of advantage over a local in the labour market but should it be happening.
The benefit and subsidy system is totally fecked.

It's not a perfect system, far from it, it would indeed be better if the idle nationals were pressed to work, but if we're failing to do that, getting a large quantity of hard-working immigrants, paying taxes and contributing, is a good second best. They shouldn't have to support the feckless, but they do. By all means reform the benefits system, but for every lardarse signed off for 20 years, there is an immigrant working their ass off.

22nd October
Read the post at 14:24

What happened with govt 'improvements' and too much immigration to one area.

(Over 3 days old, and not one luvvie has argued against it yet)

22nd October
Read the post at 14:24


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http://community.betfair.com/politics/go/thread/view/94150/30369999/did-you-know-that-its-racist-to-call-a-woman-a-man

flush from my experience ,because most English won't do the jobs the Polish are doing,only recently i've seen 2 English walk out of jobs because its too boring or don't want to work with polish. this is the mentality of too many british now.

flush you are right about 1 thing though,minimum wage should be increased and now,not some future promise.

clunge is correct

taxi i don't really know enough about Newham to comment. but to blame it all on immigration is too simplistic. its probably a failure of government and the local council. the vast majority of immigrants come to the UK to work,so why would Newham be any different. if they are lazy then thats a problem with benefits,not immigration.

taxi,what is british culture? binge drinking,smoking and eating curries and kebabs? British culture is a mixture of French,German and many different cultures,read some British history.

if they are lazy then thats a problem with benefits,not immigration

This nails it - the problem is with benefits. ( and subsidies, of course )

Example: Somalis are viewed as really lazy only in Britain. The world view if you visit forums in the US, Turkey etc is that they are average workers neither lazy or otherwise, so it cannot be a racial thing. It has to be down to either the British benefit system which makes them lazy when they get here, or the system meaning that the lazy ones gravitate here.

I've had numerous foreign national who've lived here over that last ten years. Without their efforts, all the spongers off the state or employers wouldn't get their benefits. The guy asking for disability benefit because his back is a bit sore, should remember the Polish guy busting his ass every day is paying for that. Get rid of immigrants and you might actually have to do some work.

i find that most of the time those who are slagging the immigrants are the ones who are too lazy to work.

Sunset Cristo    25 Oct 14 22:42 
taxi i don't really know enough about Newham to comment. but to blame it all on immigration is too simplistic. its probably a failure of government and the local council. the vast majority of immigrants come to the UK to work,so why would Newham be any different. if they are lazy then thats a problem with benefits,not immigration.

You didn't read the whole post, did you?

taxi,what is british culture? binge drinking,smoking and eating curries and kebabs? British culture is a mixture of French,German and many different cultures,read some British history.

I'm English before I'm British.

I don't drink alcohol, I smoke 5 cigars a day, and eat curry once a month, if that. I don't eat kebabs.

no,it was too long,what do you think i missed?

you didn't answer my question,what is in your opinion ENGLISH culture and where did it come from?

I'm not engaging with you because I know you from old on here.
How long before you start on the bible? 

your are not engaging with me,because you know you will lose the debate.

All I said was "That piece of halibut was good enough for Jehovah."

"Blas-phlegmy, he said it again" (I've got a cold)

Anyone who gets a free council house in a decent area would be mad to work unless they're a pop star or hedge fund manager.

Rent and household bills are an absolute joke and if youre single you're truly fooked.

This immigrants fill the unskilled jobs no one wants is a myth. Walk into any supermarket in an affluent area and it's full of white British shelf stackers

benefit system is fecked but everytime IDS tries to do something about it , he gets shouted down. Let him get on with it, I say.

Don't forget the Irish!

I'd say 1 in 5 "British born" have Irish Grandparents. Shocking.

zazu its mostly the immigrants who are doing the factory/warehouse jobs. the zero hour contracts jobs. British for the most part don't want them,for what ever reason. so who will do them if not the immigrants? companies will have to move to China for cheap labour.

The EU migrants has to take the jobs - they can sell their skills for up to £60/week less than the UK based person. That's an extreme number, mostly the differential is a bit less. They can't jack the job in in their first few  months here as they will lose child benefit and child tax credits. Unemployment is higher in their formerly communist home country because of the wholesale slaughter of agricultural job numbers due to mechanisation and subsidies paid for by guess who, Germany and UK mostly.

Once the immigrant worker is here they send funds to family and projects at home, to the tune of around £30bn a year according to the World Bank. The exact number isn't important. It's an immense foreign aid contribution given voluntarily by people who decide where there money should go. What happens on top of that though is that the government semi-coerces tax payers to pay about half this number on top in direct foreign aid. Why the government wants to duplicate what the free market is doing is a mystery.

Get rid of agricultural subsidies, get rid of the first year income disregard of tax credits, amend the HB formula whwihc favours london landlords to say maximum +10% of UK average rents, and halve government foreign aid.
Then you could take people earning up to £10k out of income taxation altogether ( 12% employees Ni and 13.8% employers NI, for people on minimum wage, wtf! ), and immigration would be a level playing field like it was in the US in the 19th century when nobody subsidised them to be displaced from their home countries or to live in the most expensive cities when they arrived.

To be fair most immigrant money goes to israel through m and s tesco and ladbrokes etc.

what a crock ofsh!t£ from clunge

he says most of these jobs are being done by immigrants

if that is true then this shows why we should not be letting them in

they are taking our young people's jobs away as I always say and others deny

also many of these immigrants are coming through polish and other agencies and wages further depressed by the protection foreign agencies get as it is a contract set up abroad which we cannot do anything about

lets just flood the place with immigrants and change our culture for ever

money is pouring out of our country abroad - sent by immigrant workers and now add another 1.7 billion to the bill

but so much of this is about providing low wage labour

Don't forget Ben & Jerry's Ice Cream as well

Actually not bad really, 42 posts before Israel is even mentioned

But how about the nazis - have they been mentioned yet.

If the nazis were here a lot of employers wouldn't have to pay any wages AT ALL.

This is the effect of membership with the eu of course - drive wages down to as low as they can get away with or threaten to send the jobs to india, china, malaya  etc etc

I work in a far from affluent area, and still a good third of the jobs in our supermarket are taken by overseas workers. It doesn't mean they're better than British people, it means they're better than lazy British people. We've had three Poles through here in the last two years, all working for minimum wage, all with university degrees. They're not stealing anyone's jobs, they're just doing a better job. I only take lodgers who can get work, and they all, whether they are from the UK or elsewhere - do - if you are healthy and you can't find work it's because you're too lazy to do so. Blaming someone who gets off their arse and travels hundreds of miles to a foreign country to get up at 5am and work for just over 6 quid an hour is no excuse for your laziness.

Yes they are stealing jobs. Much of the reason also is the polish and other foreign agencies setting the wage and we can do nothing about it legally.

You need to look much further and deeper for the problems with your flirtation with the eu federalist experiment.

QMV on 1st nov and the eurozone crisis much more sinister - check out the latest news of the banking problems.

I repeat - it is all about making britain a low wage economy.  The eu doing the capitalist's work for them.

In some cases certain groups and agencies are operating as a cartel and not allowing ANY home grown in for jobs.

This also happened with a spanish company who had a building contract.  But you will not want to see that.

But my wages keep going up. I'd rather they did by more but even on a 24 hour week with a bit of overtime I can get by nicely. We're really very well off, partially in thanks to the immigrants who come here and do jobs the layabouts can't be bothered to.

Is that the best you can do -'layabouts'  - no wonder they would ever want to work with you and your friends.

not allowed to bet,you are not listening,you are not even addressing the issues that have been raised,like talking to a brick wall

its the governments fault,not immigrants,they could raise the minimum wage if they wanted,but you would rather blame the hard working immigrants.

there are many British layabouts,i've worked with them,2 recently went for breaks at work and never even came back. they make me ashamed to be British.

That proves nothing sunset just because that is your local experience. Purely an anecdote. 
Polish and romanian employment agencies set up contracts in their own country and decide wage levels.
Our government can do nothing about it.
You obviously haven't read my posts properly.

My personal anecdote is that I know a couple of young 'layabouts', one did a year of voluntary work. No pay!!  And the other dashed from one part time job to another (both of these whilst at school and university)
So it is so easy to pen stuff like this.  ('I know a bloke who...etc etc etc)

nothing wrong with anecdotal experience,i'm sure you go by it a lot and its accepted in a court of law.its called eye witness testimony. they can't decide wage levels,they have to pay at least minimum wage.

then if they did that,they are not layabouts are they.i'm not saying all British are layabouts,but from my experience the average immigrant is more motivated and will run rings round the average worker who i've worked with any way.

You are using micro to prove macro.  Don't do it.  It is laughable.
Look at the 5 million low paid and work out why it is. The eu is at work for Capital and yet they say it protects workers rights and wages??
Labour have had a determined effort to boost their vote by allowing unfettered immigration which produces lower wages.  The tory boys sit on their hands and do nothing and produce the same result.

Which of these two parties have done anything for you?

My evidence(as an employer) is that the average british person is more motivated and will run rings around the average immigrant.

there are 5 million low paid workers because the government won't increase the minimum wage.neither has done anything for me,thats why i'm voting for the green party next election.

you having a laugh,what is your business?

i also have stats to back up my experience,you don't. 8 percent of British claiming benefits compared to 3 percent of immigrants.

I am certainly not going to reveal that on here !!  Do you think I am stupid.
Another chit chatter on here will confirm what and who I am  - someone who has met me face to face.

No you don't  you make it up as you go along
5 billion going to foreign born residints in this country

or residents even

"about £5 billion of the £30 billion annual tax credit bill goes to foreign nationals, according analysis by the Migration Advisory Committee (MAC)"

And SC thinks that 3% are are claiming benefits.

For info: no-one on here as far as I can tell is blaming immigrants, and almost no-one is blaming immigration as a cause. Immigration is the consequence of a fecked up benefits and subsidy system which promotes job losses in agriculture in eastern europe and then encourages them to come here with tax credit incentives in their first year that exceed what a UK worker can get. A benefit system that also pays the biggest housing benefits to people in the most expensive city which has the highest rate of non-UK born and are having the largest families and the highest value illegal sub-lets.

It is more about how immigrants and ourselves are being used by a cretinous system.  Certainly one that doesn't act in the interests of the general population. Immigrant workers or other.

You may have read  - (was it taxi's rendition) about newham.
population goes from 200,000 to 300,000.  Mainly immigrants. As job opportunities plummeted as most factories etc were closed in the area,
He kept repeating 'Immigrants come here to work' - the mantra of Labour/left/lib  - hilarious if it wasn't so sad  - the irony.

Who was doing all the work before New Labour opened the floodgates?
Where big Hotels shut because they couldn't get maids and cleaners?

Perhaps the luvvies should take a day trip to Newham, east London,  and visit the Jobcentres and the DWP offices.

Don't forget the luvvies mantra 'All immigrants come here to work.'

Especially to a London Borough where the population has increased by over 90,000 in 30 years, yet most of the factories and warehouses have vanished.

Then report back.

Sica Dan   
26 Oct 14 22:44 
Who was doing all the work before New Labour opened the floodgates?
Where big Hotels shut because they couldn't get maids and cleaners?


Did anybody see the farmer on the BBC documentary in Wisbech last year? 

Much news was made of  how hard the immigrants worked, and the way that a handful of locals plucked from Wisbech Jobcentre didn’t.

The farmer seemed displeased that he had to pay the locals £6-19p an hour no matter how much asparagus they picked, while the eastern Europeans were working their nuts off. 

Two things the programme never mentioned:

1)  The asparagus picking season only lasts a few weeks. Less than 3 weeks after the programme ended, the hard working eastern Europeans were queuing alongside the locals for their JSA at Wisbech Jobcentre.


2) Why did the BBC lackey not ask the farmer how him and his father managed not to go bankrupt with only locals to pick his crops for over 50 years before the eastern Europeans came to the UK. 

Because picking fruit or vegetables is not a 12 month job.  He didn’t want to admit that before the eastern Europeans got here that he employed locals, and paid them am extremely low rate of pay, cash in hand, while they signed on for JSA.

Play fair Taxi ffs. Where would the world be without eastern European asparagus pickers?

Something you may not know about some of the Employment Agencies that bring foreign workers to the UK, is that they own or sub let the accommodation they live in. The rent they charge is very high and is deducted from their salary at source, but when a couple save enough for a deposit to move out to cheaper accommodation the Agency tell them they can no longer promise them work.
To move out you need to find a new job,they also have to move out if they are taken on full time at the company they have been working for.

There is currently a single African immigrant living next door in a three bedroom house claiming benefit. Can only speak very little English and has little regard for the property. He has **** up some makeshift curtains for the living room and overgrown garden. The area is pleasant and a three bedroom council house rare stock in this area.
Woke up today to find local authority installing a brand new kitchen. 
Meanwhile other single local UK residents on housing list are being housed in the poorest areas where crime is an everyday occurrence. As they have no family they are being housed in a council block flats which the Council say is appropriate. Local Housing Authority say it’s the only areas available.

He didn’t want to admit that before the eastern Europeans got here that he employed locals, and paid them am extremely low rate of pay, cash in hand, while they signed on for JSA.

They call it working tax credits now cmat ! If we hadn't had the mass immigration we have had for the last decade the unions representing the lower paid could have had a stronger hand for bargaining to get higher wages at the lowest end of the market. Funny how the Labour party stopped all that and the unions cooperated fully by supporting mass immigration at the expense of their members ? The Labour party is now turning all that upside down by fighting for a living wage (???) and trying to shift the blame onto others ?

Broomwagon   
27 Oct 14 13:41 
There is currently a single African immigrant living next door in a three bedroom house claiming benefit. Can only speak very little English and has little regard for the property. He has **** up some makeshift curtains for the living room and overgrown garden.

.
http://i61.tinypic.com/1huft1.jpg

That window is my old council flat in Newham.

When I put that kitchen blind in, it was brand new, that was in 1997.

I moved away for just over 2 years, then purchased the house opposite my old flat.

The blind was torn back then, just not as badly.

This is a 2014 google image I just took.

Guess the ethnicity of the tenant, who moved in when I moved out.

call me a taxi   
26 Oct 14 23:07 
Perhaps the luvvies should take a day trip to Newham, east London,  and visit the Jobcentres and the DWP offices.

No response from the luvvies, have they gone to Newham for the day?

Its an open & shutter case