Martin Brunt , sky "journalist"

Seriously, I looked at those questions and there is no way that they could answer them. They were questions that that they couldn't answer whether guilty or innocent.

Rubbish. They were straightforward questions. Why couldn't they answer them ?

I'm amazed that Facts seems to have gone over to the dark side. I thought he had a brain in his head...

It's a shame she wasn't abducted and found a home with a family more interested in a caring for children rather than than out boozing.

That she would never be returned to this odious pair would be the perfect ending.

call me a taxi
13 Oct 14 01:23   
Have you got any children?

naydam
13 Oct 14 01:32   
Was that one of the 48 questions? If the question is directed at me, I would need to know why you seek this information.

call me a taxi
13 Oct 14 01:42   
Have you got your grey matter in gear?
Why would the McCanns be asked that question?
Unless your implying  that none of the children are theirs?
It was obviously directed at you?
A simple 'yes' or 'no' would have sufficed.
I'd guess, given your reluctance to answer, that the answer is 'no'.
But on the off chance that it's 'yes' -  would you have stayed to try and find your 'abducted' child?
Or scarpered home when named as a suspect?

naydam
13 Oct 14 09:51   
Hmmm.  CMAT. It's interesting that you question the parentage of the child. I believe that some of Amaral's infamous (MY choice of words) list of questions made reference to similar anomalies.

That's the best you could do?

Why didn't you answer the question I asked at 1:32, instead of asking a stupid question at 1:42.

I now make you an odds-on chance to be childless.

For one so vociferous on here, why duck a simple enough question.

Here it is again:

A simple 'yes' or 'no' would have sufficed.

I'd guess, given your reluctance to answer, that the answer is 'no'.

But on the off chance that it's 'yes' -  would you have stayed to try and find your 'abducted' child, or scarpered home when named as a suspect?

Not that difficult to answer, is it?

crags     13 Oct 14 17:10 
I'm amazed that Facts seems to have gone over to the dark side. I thought he had a brain in his head...


Dark side ? Not at all. I'm just intrigued after watching the youtube  video, which  genuinely raised a number of questions ( from factual evidence) that do not appear ( imo ) to have received satisfactory answers.

CMAT. Well, as a person sitting here, with no outside pressures or context to the question, the obvious answer (which seems to be chitchat favourite) would be that I would stay. But that  bald question doesn't reflect the reality of the situation to which it is supposed to apply.
When faced with an aggressive detective who, in my opinion was trying to pin a murder charge on me, my answer might be very different. If, on top of the threat of a murder charge, I concluded that my presence might, in fact, be hampering the search for my lost child, I might well think about returning home to await developments. And if, on top of all that, I had concluded that I could best help in this search by mustering the services of the British media, I would give it serious consideration. And then when I thought about how upsetting all of this palaver was to my remaining children...I would head home.

Now then, giving some context to the situation and all things considered. What would YOU do?

That would be the children she left alone whilst boozing out with her mates. And the twins she left alone , whilst she  went off to tell her friends Madeline was gone.

Yes, those are the ones. Your point is...?

You were implying that the reason she refused to answer the questions and head home, was because it was upsetting the children........

Hmmm. I'm not really sure that I was implying that at all. I answered the question of whether I would have remained in Portugal to assist in the search. Just as all other chitchatters are happy to declare.
I think it's just a case of you deliberately misunderstanding. I only mentioned the children as part of several contributing factors that may have affected their decision.

It seems to me that I'm the only one who replies to any questions with a proper answer. Perhaps you're just not used to that sort of thing.

You are wearing that pompous hat again naydam..

Don't think it's a hat g2d. He's certainly arrogant . And obtuse.

naydam    13 Oct 14 19:53 
Now then, giving some context to the situation and all things considered. What would YOU do?

You still didn't answer if you have children or not.

Have I hit a touchy subject or something?

I have children, so I wouldn't get suspected, questioned or arrested.

The simple reason being that I wouldn't go out on the lash and leave my children alone, ever.

Anybody can be sympathetic to the McCanns, but not me, and I'm not alone. 

On the whole, I'd guess that those with no children probably feel more sympathetic than fathers do.

This alleged 'abduction' was totally self inflicted.

I think I'll just give up. All you seem to post is a bit of name-calling. What is all this 'arrogant, pompous and obtuse' business about? Could you please name a specific example? Any example.

naydam, you are right to ignore the thread, or give up as you say, as these sicko haters will always hate no matter what you or anybody else says

Good luck if you persevere

What is the significance of whether I have children or not?
I didn't ask if YOU would go 'on the lash'...I asked what your actions would have been IF you had been in the McCann's position. In those circumstances at that time. I have given examples of how the pressures upon them might lead to them refusing to answer questions and also as to why they might decide to continue the 'search' from back in the UK.
I'm not asking you to be sympathetic, just what would you have done with regard to the '48 questions' if YOU had been in their place.
If I can get you to try and imagine the situation, then perhaps I could get you to see that YOU also might have refused to answer the questions. All you need to do is answer the question. But please give it some thought.

naydam    14 Oct 14 01:16 
What is the significance of whether I have children or not?

And there was I, thinking you were intelligent.

A father (imo) would have a different outlook than a single man with no children, on this case.

I asked what your actions would have been IF you had been in the McCann's position.

I would NEVER be in that position, pointless question. 

I'm a responsible adult and father.

Oct 12, 2014 -- 7:44PM, scandanavian_haven wrote:

They moved back to England as they were afraid of being stitched up, which is what the Portuguese police were trying to do, also, the Portuguese public were largely against them thanks to media coverage over there, they had to come back some time.

What basis is there for saying the portuguese police 'were trying to stich them up' , that is part of the McCann narrative that i can't see why you accept . This is something that happens when a police force has no idea what happened ,the investigation is going nowhere , so they choose a likely suspect and then cobble together some evidence against them . The opposite happened here: they investigated the case very thouroughly ,and the evidence they gathered pointed overwhelmingly to the McCanns , so they interviwed them on that basis .  'Stiching up' requires the police inventing evidence . Well that didn't happen here did it (and a great deal of the case against them was made by UK Police ) .

FWIW though i don't think Kate not answering the 48 questions is all that damning . An innocent person , if it seems the police have made up their minds against them , might feel ( or be advised legally ) that no comment is the best option.

The thing is , even if you give them a pass on that , and remove whole other chunks of the case against them , it still leaves a big pile of things they have said and done that make no sense for innocent people to have said and done.

Not so long ago, and it may still go on now, thousands of parents left their children, including very small children, all night without checking up on them at all. They were oh holiday at the likes of Butlins and Pontins and I've worked for both.

They had what was called Chalet Patrols, this meant people walking round the chalets and reporting if a child was crying.The people who did this were generally any of the staff who fancied a bit of extra work on top of their normal job. So some would be responsible in this task, others not so. I've seen kitchen porters stumbling round with a bottle of cider or even not hardly bothering to go round at all!

Should all these parents be vilified? The McCanns did far more to ensure the safety of their children than these people did. You might say that they weren't to know that maybe the patrols weren't as good at times as they thought they would be, but they were still leaving very small children for hours on end without anyone being in the chalets with them at all.

Hunt them all down and lock them up, I say

tobermory, Goncarlo amaral is a man with a suspect reputation who uses unorthodox methods to extract what he wants from suspects to end a case. You say they thoroughly investigated, but they a)failed to seal off the crime area comprising potential evidence and b) conducted a piss poor search for her. They may have been made suspects some time after, but in the meantime, the Portuguese media were being fed different information to put pressure on them.

Amaral's reputation has been trashed by the Mccanns and The Sun/Mirror and the rest of their media puppets . He was a good detective . What 'unorthodox methods' was he using ?

Amaral himself was unhappy that the crime scene was not sealed off at the start . It was nothing to do with him ; senior detectives were based a long way off and just ordinary coppers were first on the scene . When they got there the tapas group were all there roaming all over the place and so the damage had largely been done anyway .

Why was the search 'piss poor' ?

This is just the Mcann logic being applied imo ....

1. The Portuguese Police failed to find evidence of the abductor in the apartment.
2. Therefore the Portuguese police are incompetent.
3. Later , these same police developed the theory that the parents were responsible.
4. But as we've already established their incompetence this theory must be wrong.
5. If the cover up is wrong, then there must have been an abduction.

Look into how he's investigated other cases.

The initial search was not comprehensive, they did not even search the homes of known paedo's until he was off the case.....

A ferrari engine makes a deep, distinctive sound.
When the children at Portugal's most famous orphanage heard the sports car roaring down the driveway, fear swept through the dormitories.
The noise could mean only one thing: the man known as The Doctor was coming to call.
Yet this medical practitioner had no intention of adhering to the ancient Hippocratic Oath.
Madeleine McCann in hat
Instead, arriving at Casa Pia (House of the Pious), a 17th century Lisbon orphanage where more than 4,000 children are cared for each year behind high stone walls, the doctor would summon selected boys and girls from their beds for examinations one night each week.
Where possible, he chose deaf-mutes.
After checking that the children were not suffering from any sexual infections, the doctor was joined by the orphanage caretaker, known as Bibi, who ushered the unfortunate children outside to a waiting van.
With the doctor following in his red Ferrari, Bibi drove the van to the prestigious homes of some of the leading members of Lisbon society - ranging from Portuguese government ministers and high-ranking diplomats, to famous television stars and members of the judiciary.
Scroll down for more...
McCann family
There, the children were repeatedly sexually abused. Some were allegedly drugged to make them compliant; others were plied with alcohol.
This continued for years. Assaults were filmed; pictures of one attack were subsequently found at the home of a suspected paedophile in Paris.
According to medical records, the victims' injuries were horrific - and consistent with serious sexual assault and rape. In witness statements, many were able to describe in minute detail the homes where they were taken and identifying marks on the bodies of their abusers.
The existence of this so-called "magic circle" of the Portuguese establishment, allegedly involved in an international paedophile ring using boys and girls from Casa Pia, was last week likened to an earthquake waiting to shake Portugal to its foundations.
New allegations about the scale of the network will be put before the country's highest court within the next few weeks.
Amid rumours of links to other paedophile gangs across Europe and the U.S., international experts on child sex crimes and murders are expected to be in court when the case re-opens, four years after a group of victims broke a silence lasting more than 30 years.
But what relevance does this have to the disappearance 170 days ago of four-year-old Madeleine McCann in Praia da Luz, about 280km from Lisbon?
And what does it mean for Kate and Gerry McCann, who have not only had to cope with losing their child, but have also been subjects of a vicious campaign in the Portuguese press to smear them?
It is crucial for two reasons; first because it proves what international crime agencies have long suspected: that Portugal has become a magnet for predatory paedophiles from around the world, using the country's lax laws and preying on the high numbers of poor, abandoned children.
And second, because Paulo Rebelo, an urbane, methodical detective who led the Casa Pia paedophile inquiry, was last night finishing his first week as the new chief of the investigation into the disappearance of the British child.
Rebelo has replaced Goncalo Amaral, the "oafish" local police chief out of his depth in a case that has captured unprecedented world attention, with millions fascinated by the story of the girl snatched from her bed on holiday while her parents ate with friends 200 yards away.
The sight of the sweaty, corpulent Amaral in restaurants and cafes near the Portimao police headquarters had become commonplace since Madeleine disappeared.
While the McCanns were warned repeatedly they faced jail for speaking about the case, he was been overheard, during his daily three-hour lunches of wine and shellfish, accusing the couple of killing their daughter.
In one conversation with Portugal's ex-Formula One racing driver Pedro Lamy, Amaral revealed he was convinced the McCanns drugged their daughter and accidentally killed her. "The police case is we are sure the parents killed Madeleine. They are both doctors and know about drugs.
"We are confident in our case," he said.
In an effort to make up for lost time following Amaral's dismissal, Rebelo has recruited his own men from Lisbon. To the fury of the original officers, he has lost little time in sidelining them, bringing in two child sex experts from the Casa Pia case as well as homicide specialists and computer analysts - known as "the cleaners" due to their reputation for leaving no stone unturned.
According to senior police sources, he also launched a furious private attack on the 100 officers involved in the original inquiry, which he has now cut back to 40.
At a meeting, he accused some officers of having "closed minds" about who was guilty, saying that "pre-conceptions should be challenged".
In addition, he oversaw Operation Predator - raids on more than 70 suspected paedophiles, whose computers were searched last week for images of Madeleine or other evidence of criminal sexual acts. Although by last night Rebelo had failed to make a breakthrough, sources say it is a clear sign, along with reports that Russian child traffickers may be involved, of a strand of his current thinking.
In a Lisbon café, an associate of Rebelo told the Mail: "The Casa Pia case had a deep affect on Paulo. You come across things that are appalling and cruel. But you get a feeling that there are some seriously bad people in the world, and some of them are here. He does not rule anything out."
So, after enduring months of soul-destroying leaks from the Portuguese police - from claims that they drugged Madeleine and then disposed of her body, to allegations that Gerry was not even her real father - the McCanns are no longer the sole focus of the Portuguese police investigation.
But the nightmare goes on. A group of officers loyal to Amaral are still leaking smears to the Portuguese press.
The latest?
That bodily fluids from Madeleine's corpse were found in the boot of the couple's hire care and that "background checks" were to be carried out on Gerry McCann's laptop. And then the police "sources" claimed that Kate killed Madeleine without telling Gerry, and that the body was "refrigerated" before being dumped up to 25 days later.
His career in tatters and now back on desk duties in Faro, Amaral faces a criminal hearing in the case of another missing child, Joana Cipriano, after being accused of concealing evidence that the girl's mother was tortured into confessing to her murder.
Amaral and his colleagues face countless unanswered questions about mistakes in the original police investigation into Maddie's disappearance, such as failing to ensure the McCanns' apartment was sealed off for forensics. (This did not happen until the next day, by which time the McCanns, their friends, resort staff and detectives had traipsed through, destroying potentially vital evidence.)
They also failed to seal off the Mark Warner Ocean Club resort. No roadblocks were set up and police on the Spanish border - two hours' drive away - were not alerted for 12 hours. Staff were only quizzed 60 hours later. And the CCTV footage from a busy main road was never studied. The list of mistakes goes on.
While the shift in the investigation may ease the intolerable pressure on the McCanns, it will do little to console them.
As well as growing fears that Madeleine was abducted by a paedophile ring, they can have little hope of justice when leading Portuguese figures are allegedly involved in covering-up their own child sex scandal.
Both cases - the two highestprofile criminal investigations in the country since the end of the Portuguese military dictatorship in 1974 - have been riven by allegations of compromised police officers, high-level interference and vicious, virulent attacks on key witnesses.
Pedro Namora, a former Casa Pia orphan who witnessed 11 rapes on fellow orphans, during which they were tied to their beds, sympathises with the McCanns. He believes elements in the force have conspired to suppress both scandals, fearing damage to the country's reputation.
"Portugal is a paedophiles' paradise," said Mr Namora, now a lawyer campaigning on behalf of the Casa Pia victims. "If all the names come out, this will be an earthquake in Portugal. There is a massive, sophisticated network at play here - stretching from the government to the judiciary and the police...
"The network is enormous and extremely powerful. There are magistrates, ambassadors, police, politicians - all have procured children from Casa Pia. It is extremely difficult to break this down. These people cover for each other, because if one is arrested, they all are arrested. They don't want anyone to know."
Now 44, Mr Namora watched as friends sank into alcoholism, drug addiction and death after their traumatic childhood experiences at Casa Pia. "I was the only one who made it," he said. "What could I do? I couldn't keep silent."
He has received death threats and warnings about what will happen to his own children, after taking up the case when an orphan called "Joel" approached him, saying prominent paedophiles were using Casa Pia as a "supermarket for children".
Mr Namora has been threatened after fighting on behalf of the abused children he grew up with.
After being telephoned by a stranger offering to pay off his mortgage, he was told the exact movements of his own three children, and warned that they and their father would come to a grisly end unless he shut up.
An open, warm man, Mr Namora makes an unlikely conspiracytheorist-But he believes the case, which he brought to light in 2003, will underscore Portugal's growing attraction for paedophiles, which has seen six children disappear in recent years...
One reason for this attraction is that the law was quietly relaxed last year, ahead of the forthcoming trial, meaning that repeat offences against the same child would merit only a single charge - and a lesser sentence.
In echoes of the McCanns' ordeal, the initial investigation was badly handled when allegations of abuse were first made at Casa Pia in 1982. Carlos Silvino, the man known as Bibi, was linked to rapes and assaults, but police "lost" pictures showing prominent Lisbon politicians with him and the children.
He was only charged after dozens of children came forward in 2003. They also accused Jorge Ritto, a former Portuguese ambassador, of child abuse. Ritto, it transpired, had also once been sent home in disgrace from a posting in Germany after an incident involving a young boy in a park.
The conspiracy did not end there. Teresa Costa Macedo, a former secretary of state for the family, has revealed that she knew about the attacks in the early Eighties - and that she had alerted General Antonio Ramalho Eanes, the then Portuguese president, about the allegations.
Mrs Costa Macedo, who remained silent for two decades after being warned she would be killed if she spoke, now says that the caretaker "was just one element in a huge paedophile network that involved important people in our country. It wasn't just him [the caretaker]. He was a procurer of children for well-known people who range from diplomats and politicians to people linked to the media".
While still a government minister, Costa Macedo handed police "photographs, an account of the methods used to spirit children out of the orphanage and testimonies of a number of children". Many of the photographs were found at ex-ambassador Jorge Ritto's house. Police reportedly found four children locked up who had been missing from Casa Pia.
Under armed guard at a safe house last week, Bibi could count himself a lucky man. He originally faced allegations that he had sexually assaulted more than 600 children. That has since been reduced to 30. Silvino has hinted at the high-level of the conspiracy, saying: "They can't touch me - there are too many people involved."
Following Ritto's arrest, the police questioned Carloz Cruz, known as Portugal's "Mr Television", and Joao Diniz, a high- society doctor and driver of the red Ferrari. The network allegedly went further. Paulo Pedroso, a government minister, was arrested and quizzed about 15 cases of child sexual abuse.
Amid allegations that paedophile networks have become endemic in Portugal - the European police force Interpol has named the country as one of the worst offenders in Europe - there are fears that the Casa Pia scandal will come to eclipse Belgium's notorious Marc Dutroux case, in which the arrest of a notorious paedophile and child murderer revealed a sordid picture of judicial and political corruption.
Of course, the Casa Pia case may have no direct link to the disappearance of Madeleine, but the culture in which such a serious child abuse network was allowed to operate is the same culture that pervades the whole of Portugal. Was it this attitude that led to the bungled initial investigation in the McCann case?
Perhaps the appointment of the man who exposed the Casa Pia scandal will give the parents of Maddie hope that a proper investigation will now discover the truth.

responsible parents dont leave their kids in open apartment and go on the lash, night after night. This is where mccann defenders fall down, they wont accept the obvious conclusion on even this simple point.

Scan_ h


And when was this piece of journalism printed ?

7 years ago.

So Paulo Rebelo was not the white knight then !

He was a good detective

I've heard everything now!

I'd say with Amaral on the case and a chitchat jury he'd get his conviction. And they still keep quoting irrelevant remarks like "I wouldn't go on the lash". We KNOW that. The question is: If you found yourself in the McCann's position, regardless of how it came about, would YOU have answered THOSE questions? He is virtually trying to prove that they wanted rid of the kid!! They are questions which are designed to help prove the guilt of the respondent.
No wonder they wanted to see the questions first.

As the McCann's realised they were becoming the number 1 suspects then they have every right not to answer the questions and may have been told not to by their lawyers. I would not have answered the questions if I thought the police started looking at me as the culprit.

Witness statements can be expected to be wrong/different. If 6 of us saw something happen then were questioned about it ten minutes later there is a strong chance that our stories would not add up.

I still believe that the police have interviewed the person responsible.

"If 6 of us saw something happen then were questioned about it ten minutes later there is a strong chance that our stories would not add up."

That's not really what the problem is here. The first statements of Kate and Gerry are virtually identical as if they are reading from the same script.  On the other hand the first and second statements of Gerry (for example) contain significant differences.  The biggest problem is inconsistency of individuals, not inconsistency between individuals within the group

It appears that some of you are under the impression that if you don't answer questions you won't be arrested.

Katie hopkins is a cint the mc canns must regret every day of their lives what they did,
But the fact remains ,some pervert is out there who took their child.

flushgordon1    14 Oct 14 16:34 
Katie hopkins is a cint the mc canns must regret every day of their lives what they did,
But the fact remains ,some pervert is out there who took their child.

Could you please explain how you know this?

What you reckon they did it?
Hopkins follows a long line of vacuous sun columnist littlejohn,clarkson who of they caught ebola would be begging the mc canns to treat them if push came to shove.

The problem is flushgordon, when you assert as fact that a pervert took their child, there is no independent, corroborated evidence that supports this supposition other than the say-so of McCanns and their drinking buddies.

Can we agree that they were irresponsible parents then, possibly criminally irresponsible

Or that when you leave 3 kids, (1 of whom can get up and about and was crying for her parents the night before) alone in an unlocked apartment, to go out on the lash. for multiple nights then "bad things" might happen like an accidental child death

Why can't we move on from people asserting over and over again that the parents were negligible?  Its hardly breaking news nor one of the more interesting aspects of the case.

It would be breaking news if they admitted that small fact..

One thing that has always puzzled me is a quote from Gerry Mccann on 3rd June 2007, so just a month after she had gone missing

'We want a big event to raise awareness that she is still missing, It wouldn’t be a one-year anniversary, it will be sooner than that.'

How could he anticipate then that there would be a one year anniversary, she could conceivably still have been found at any time then.

what do you want then to do, Guinness, self-flagellate? In losing a child, they have already paid an enormous price for their actions.

Also from 28th June that year ': “I have no doubt we will be able to sustain a high profile for Madeleine's disappearance in the long-term”.  It just seems a little premature, at that stage, to be speaking of 'long term'

the McCanns are lucky they're not in prison

I want them to accept responsiblity for their part in their daughters disappearance. I have never once heard them accept any blame. They are quick to blame (or litigate) anyone else who has the utter temerity to question their actions during that holiday.

And self flaggelation would be a start.

For me, it goes without saying that their actions played a part  Unlike you, I see no need for them to publicly shame themelves further, they know and have paid the ultimate price.

They are suing Amaral for a shameful one-eyed, biased, preposterous unbalanced documentary and book.  I hope they clean him out.

There is no evidence that an abduction took place.

The rest is smoke and mirrors.

"a shameful one-eyed, biased, preposterous unbalanced"

You could just as easily be describing the British media..

What evidence can the McCann supporters produce that indicates that an abduction took place?

Answer: ZERO.

Their main fact relies on blind faith.

They are suing Amaral for a shameful one-eyed, biased, preposterous unbalanced documentary and book.

Actually they are suing him for saying Maddie died in the apartment and it was covered it up.

If you accept they were negligent and the child is not here, with no evidence of an abduction (then or now), then other scenarios obviously have to be considered.

Not by the Met (seemingly)

not by "abduction" theorists either, just interested to try and understand why they believe something with no evidence to support it

I don't get it.

Do the McCann's have to prove they didn't do it before it can be considered a possible abduction? 

The kid is missing, if the parents are not involved, and there is no proof, definitve or otherwise that they are, then it was abducted. QED. There doesn't need to be poof of an abduction, other than the missing child, for it to have been an abduction.

no evidence of abduction QED parents should be number 1 suspects, its just the same

It's more 'comfortable' than other scenarios..

i think thats it, its easier for some to come to terms with

a bogey man did it, not 2 middle class doctors

A helpful and worthwhile post, AT.....they are not suing because of the documentayr but rather the contents of the documentary.. No sh1t, sherlock, talk about splitting hairs.

As with every aspect of UK life, class envy is the main dynamic at play.

Ozy,

everyone needs to keep an open mind rather than accept the slavish media-driven narrative constantly spouting on about abduction when there is zero evidence to support it.

They and everyone else should be talking about a missing child rather than offering unsubstantiated facts regarding how the disappearance came about.

Strangely enough the Met's only meaningful contribution to the investigation has been to dismiss the bundle carrying man who, until then, the McCanns had insisted was a sighting of Maddie + abductor.

Wait till they unveil the black one-armed peg seller (with asthma)

It is almost as if this case is keep alive as some kind of bait.

Provocative comments that do not toe the accepted media line seem to provide a pecuniary benefit.

I wish that thed go on Nat T/V & take a lie detector reading................ so as I could be behind em as we all were at the onset.....................

         How did it ever get like this ?

Hmmm. No change then? Had a busy(for me) day.Thought I'd catch up.

Good evening naydam..

It looks like they've found the peg seller in Malta..

Ye can almost set thy watch by em..

Wesdag 14 Oct 14 19:37 Joined: 05 Aug 09 | Topic/replies: 5,563 | Blogger: Wesdag's blog
There is no evidence that an abduction took place.

The rest is smoke and mirrors.

There's no evidence of any crime having taken place at all that's the point. What crime are you suggesting the lack of evidence of any crime implies though?

The two dogs findings would suggest a crime did taker place.

Has every single crime scene where a child has been abducted let evidence of an abductor?

No, professional child thief's don't like to leave clues.

So why people keep drawing attention to the non existence of evidence I don't know, there may be no evidence of an abductor in this case, but there is no conclusive evidence the McCann's had accidentally killed her either.

I have to say, the non stop moral high ground people take in regards to the McCann's "being out on the lash" and "guilty of child neglect" is becoming very nauseating, 7 years later we get the picture, you are perfect parents they are not.

ffs professional child thief its comical

Its a balanced debate

"abductorists" go on about professional child thieving and carlos the bogey man, who slips and out through the window unnoticed, like a breeze

rest talk about the possibility a child could come to arm if 3 very young ones are left alone night after night in an unlocked apartment in a foreign country while parents went out on the pish.

harm

The 'window' is one of the first major anomalies in this case. McCann made great play of the fact that she knew an abduction had taken place , because the window was open and the wooden shutters broken and pushed up.
In reality, ( photos confirm), the shutters were in place and untouched.

I have to say, the non stop moral high ground people take in regards to the McCann's "being out on the lash" and "guilty of child neglect" is becoming very nauseating, 7 years later we get the picture, you are perfect parents they are not.

well said

The two dogs findings would suggest a crime did taker place.

What crime, by who and against who?

All the dogs suggest is that they smelt the scent of death but that no forensic evidence was found.

All the dogs suggest is that they smelt the scent of death but that no forensic evidence was found.

Two different dogs, at two different times.

One was a cadaver dog that smelt 'death'

The other was a blood dog that smelt 'blood'

Both dogs smelt it in the same place, where the skirting board touched the floorboards, behind the sofa, that the McCanns say was never moved.

How did Madeleine's 'grazed knee' manage to get into the 90 degree angle between the floor and the wall.

The dog findings aren't evidence. Intelligence only.

I've no idea how it works, but could you rule out they smelt death from before the McCanns were there. Albeit the dogs smelt death in the car and (?) the McCanns' second apartment.

Two different dogs, at two different times.

One was a cadaver dog that smelt 'death'

The other was a blood dog that smelt 'blood'

Both dogs smelt it in the same place, where the skirting board touched the floorboards, behind the sofa, that the McCanns say was never moved.

So?

How did Madeleine's 'grazed knee' manage to get into the 90 degree angle between the floor and the wall.

No idea I wasn't there. It wasn't even conclusively Madeleines blood? How did it get there?

Ozymandius    15 Oct 14 09:48 
I have to say, the non stop moral high ground people take in regards to the McCann's "being out on the lash" and "guilty of child neglect" is becoming very nauseating, 7 years later we get the picture, you are perfect parents they are not.

well said

Yes, far better to be thought of as being neglectful parents than anything worse.

Shrewd.

I have to say, the non stop moral high ground people take in regards to the McCann's "being out on the lash" and "guilty of child neglect" is becoming very nauseating, 7 years later we get the picture, you are perfect parents they are not.


Idiotic

it's not, there is no point droning on and on about how they were bad parents, that ground has been worn out, and it's tiresome reading it over and over

I will keep repeating it until they themselves admit it.

If that's ok with you of course? If not, then don't read it.

And you don't have to be a "perfect parent" to understand right from wrong..

Well said

I just think that they have suffered enough, one way or another they have lost a child who would be in secondary school now, if that isn't enough to deal with, then they've been subjected to relentless hate campaigns on a daily basis from people playing judge and jury, if it makes you personally feel better then fell free, doesn't affect me. I will say it's Gerry McCann that does himself no favours, his terse replies doesn't help his cause, whereas kate mccann always looks broken.

Well, we can agree on your last point.

It's not a "hate campaign" btw. It's just a different view of what the McCanns, Met, and the British media want you to listen to or read. That is why i take exception to you saying "droning on" Have a read of what the rest of the world think of the McCanns. I can assure it isn't just Chit Chatters.

Finally, can i just say, that yours and others assumption that they have suffered enough, would i take it be on the basis that they had nothing to do with Madeleine's disappearance?

They wouldn't of killed her on purpose would they, so if she did die that apartment, then it would have been accidental death, why they would cover up an accidental death and then (and this is the most baffling part) go to extraordinary lengths to keep their names and her name in the public eye for 7 and a half long years? and to keep the story going on an on, even today there's a front page story on a new suspect in today' papers, a guilty set of parents would want the story to fade away surely, they are smart people after all. Can't be money either, they are hardly destitute. I'm not saying what's written here is a  hate campaign, more on twitter and youtube, the youtube comments in particular are 10 worse than anywhere else.

They're hardly likely to turn around and say 'we've given up looking' now, are they? Guilty or not.

There has to be a new 'suspect' every so often, otherwise the Government would tire of paying for this investigation. Hence my earlier quip about you can set your watch by them.

If, and i say IF, the McCanns are guilty of more than neglect, then you would have to understand the morals - values, and probably more importantly the reasons why. It is my opinion, that any parent who had contributed to their own childs death, would quite simply be capable of anything.

scandanavian_haven    15 Oct 14 14:56 
They wouldn't of killed her on purpose would they

Who knows?

The police don't (The Met. or the Pork'n'cheese) so all avenues are still open.

The 'Sympathy for the McCanns' group don't know, and neither do the 'Fack giving them sympathy' group.

For a child who allegedly had trouble sleeping, and didn't like strangers (which was the reason they gave for having no child minder)

was she:
carried off awake and screaming by a stranger (1,000/1)

carried off awake and quiet as she knew who was carrying her

carried off asleep and/or 'out of it'

not there to be abducted in the first place

i quite like the theory in the early days that one or the other doesnt no the truth and the one probably gerry coluded with 1 or more of the gang in a cover up,letting kate go check knowing she wasnt there,harsh but everyone agrees he,s one cold fish,as for why cover up an accident,
she may have been sedated
2 health care pro,s putting their career ist
reaction of the other kids
etc,etc

why would you cover up accidental death

A father who left his infant son and 2-year-old daughter at home alone while he went to a job interview — returning later to find the boy dead — has been sentenced to 10 years in prison.

.
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local/article/Dad-gets-prison-for-infant-who-died-while-home-5654989.php

Plenty of others

wow SH was making fairly sensible comments earlier in the thread ( though a bit too 'balanced' to the Mccans when the evidence is very unbalanced ) , now i can only think he has been on that pro McCann looney forum to be coming up with his latest posts

No, professional child thief's don't like to leave clues.



Seriously if there are such people ( are they in the yellow pages under P or C  ? )  , and they must be good as i've never heard of one being caught and convicted ,then how would they likely operate if a client has placed on order for a 3 yr old blonde girl ?

He could either... Go to an orphanage in Polsnd/Russia/Ukraine (of which there are loads if the adverts to raise charity money for them are a guide ) , say he wants to adopt said girl , pay what i imagine would be a fraction of what the paedo ring are offering him , and make a his profit when he delivers her . The biggest crime he would have committed in aqquiring the child would be bribing a bureaucrat to get around the adoption red tape . No one is going to be looking for her : the parents have given her up the orphanage have one less to look after , police/media interest is zero.

OR

he could get into an apartment , hope no one is there to challenge him or comes in before he leaves , kidnap the girl , hoping she doesn't start screaming (or maybe he sedates her, taking up even more of the max 4 minutes he has to do all this according to the 'checking' timeline ) , then -having left not a trace of his prescence -  carries her out ,walks through the streets with her , and gets away unseen . But he hasn't really got away yet even then because now police/media interest is far from zero .... instead we have the biggest police operation in the history of the country  and europe wide 24/7 media coverage .

whats the latest on the libel case

They exist tober, children go missing all the time without trace, you might not hear about it so much in the western world, which makes this case so peculiar given the attention it's received with no end result.

As regards the libel case...I would guess that it being reprinted. It now contains evidence from a Basset Hound in order to clarify Eddie's findings.

Who is Eddie?

http://www.bay.com.mt/top-stories/1140-maddie-mccann-suspect-sent-from-malta...

I see Martin is back on sky now.....it must've been a bit of a misunderstanding