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StillSkint
30 Sep 14 15:55
Joined:
Date Joined: 13 May 12
| Topic/replies: 38 | Blogger: StillSkint's blog
Got a meeting soon with the CEO of a medium size, family owned,  construction related company I work for. I have (as well as other key staff) been invited to invest a minimum of 50k to buy equity in the company. The company turnover is around £25m annually but has no real assets except for software / fixtures & fittings & a real strongly skilled workforce & customer base. The order book has a minimum of £6m for the first quarter of next year with some potentially large wins in the wind.

I am just below executive level & have no access to the accounts so can anyone give any quick advice on what I should look for / question?
Why the need to raise capitol (except for growth & expansion)
Perceived value of the company (independently based?)
Tax commitments
Future Public listing

It is an Australian company governed by Australian law if this makes any difference.

Thanks in anticipation for the serious replies
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Report Deltâ September 30, 2014 4:01 PM BST
forum name doesnt inspire for this venture, and is a sign

hth
Report Crisp77 September 30, 2014 4:04 PM BST
The thing that Equity entitles you to is a share of dividends and a share of the profits when the company is sold.

The main things you should concern yourself with are what the dividend levels have been historically and what they are likely to be in the next few years and/or if anyone likely to buy the company in the foreseeable future. That's the only real way to get a return on your £50k.

The reasons they are doing this are likely to be (i) to raise money because it's cheaper/easier than from banks and other lenders (ii) They think they can get you to work harder if you buy a stake in the company and are less likely to leave.
Report StillSkint September 30, 2014 4:09 PM BST
LOL......reverse psychology Delta......
Report Capt__F September 30, 2014 4:14 PM BST
2 in  a day for crisp
i going 4 lie down
Report StillSkint September 30, 2014 4:15 PM BST
Crisp....thanks for the response. Is there any point attempting to place a time constraint for staged withdrawal of the 50k if I were to go ahead. Is this normal behaviour? I understand the intent is to let the money work for you (or be prepared to lose it) but maybe a safety net could be put in place to see how things go in the coming years
Report Crisp77 September 30, 2014 4:15 PM BST
And if that's not good enough the International Management Consultant will be on in a while Plain
Report Crisp77 September 30, 2014 4:17 PM BST

Sep 30, 2014 -- 4:15PM, StillSkint wrote:


Crisp....thanks for the response. Is there any point attempting to place a time constraint for staged withdrawal of the 50k if I were to go ahead. Is this normal behaviour? I understand the intent is to let the money work for you (or be prepared to lose it) but maybe a safety net could be put in place to see how things go in the coming years


Normally you get the money back by selling the shares. They might do shares where the company has redemption rights meaning that they can buy them back at a fixed price and fixed date which would make them more like a loan.

Report Ozymandius September 30, 2014 4:17 PM BST
Responding to a point made by Crisp;

It is a bit of a misnomer to think of equity as being cheaper financing than debt.  The opposite is true, equity is a higher risk investment therefore demands higher returns.  Also debt repayments are tax deductible whilst dividend payments are not.
Report Ozymandius September 30, 2014 4:19 PM BST
It will be easier to give advice, Stillskint, when we have answers to the questions you have outlined to ask.
Report Crisp77 September 30, 2014 4:21 PM BST

Sep 30, 2014 -- 4:17PM, Ozymandius wrote:


Responding to a point made by Crisp;It is a bit of a misnomer to think of equity as being cheaper financing than debt.  The opposite is true, equity is a higher risk investment therefore demands higher returns.  Also debt repayments are tax deductible whilst dividend payments are not.


Depends on the company circumstances however generally you are right. I would never sell equity in my company if I could get a decent priced loan if I needed finance.

In this case with it being construction they may have exhausted all their reasonably priced funding lines. Just an assumption because not sure why they want to sell equity.

Report StillSkint September 30, 2014 4:28 PM BST
Thx for the advice Crisp & Ozy. I will post an update after the initial chat.
Report Capt__F September 30, 2014 4:38 PM BST
is crisp Deborah Meaden ?
Report Crisp77 September 30, 2014 4:39 PM BST
If your buying I am Plain
Report posy September 30, 2014 6:30 PM BST
This must be a wind up as op doesn't even state the percentage of the company his £50 k will buy.
If by some chance this is a genuine enquiry my advice would be to go to a local chartered accountant and ask him to value the company for you for a fixed fee.Almost certainly if you're going to end up with a small minority holding in a family company and you're not even at director level the advice will be to steer well clear.
Report Paddy Hair October 1, 2014 3:32 AM BST
You mention turnover and the value of current orders on the books with potentially more orders.
As others have said, what equity do you get for 50k.
What is the profit or loss for the last 5 years.
As a share holder you are still likely to be in a minority, because it's a family business.
Skilled workforce and customer base isn't a value, what happens if the customers or workforce get a better deal from  competitors.
The equity you are offered will tell you what they value the company at this time, have this valuation checked.

This could be a great opportunity,or it could cost you your future, think about it for a long time.

Good Luck with what you decide.
Report mememe October 1, 2014 12:42 PM BST
I'm an accountant and management consultant (or rather was until I discovered Betfair).  My advice is don't unless ...  In my younger and more ambitious greasy pole days I worked for a very blue chip uk accountancy and management consultancy firm.  The rule was that we were not allowed to buy shares in clients (and as we did something for nearly all big companies, tax, accounting, IT, etc) and my boss always used to say he was very grateful for that rule.
unless ...
you can see the accounts, financial projections, influence the management and decisions in the business, trust the current owners, know what your equity is going to be used for.
Better stick to Betfair, IMO
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