Buy to Let w@nkers

because you still need to pay the balance of the mortgage after the term. pensioners tend to be not alive after 25 years.

Does this mean you will get a personality bypass Rob?

Hank..  Believe it or not I always said I would sell out sooner or later.  Even at my lowest and drunkest, now it looks like it will actually happen.

the £450 interest isn't your only cost - presumably there are agency fees ?

Insurance, repairs, interest rates going up, vacant months £2k for a new boiler wipes out 6 months profit etc

No sh1t sherlck.

well, that's why everyone is not doing it. You were the one who asked the question

Property blight, house prices slumped, taxation, brick liquidity, costs & fees...........

Lots of reasons.

And yes, most are w@nkers. You seem like you have already reached that position.

the return is pathetic. anybody with the money would be far better off modernising  properties in good areas. can get off with a 20-40% profit in the space of a few months if you find the right ones.

the big slump is on its way,the last one was only a taster

Are you going to use an agent ?

if not advertise in a local paper .... in my case I advertised in a Friday evening paper .. and interviewed potential tenants before deciding on the Sunday who I would offer it to.

I had gone through this process in reverse as a student.

Rob what you make from the rent is likely to be offset by the fall in property values.
House prices have been falling and places like London will not be differemt. Property
prices will fall for the next 20or 30 years, probably longer.

Property prices near me are beyond obscene. They have gone completely crazy this year.

High property prices can not be sustained by the very rich. It is the millkons of
middle and working classes who drive the market. This part of the population have
falling wages and greater job insecurity. People will live from week to week inable
to plan for the future with any certainty. Higher pppulation levels will(surprisingly)
make this worse.

Mortgage fee's 2k per time are enough to put me off

why are you buying interest Only , when the return is £900 month Rob

I doubt you'll be getting a true 7% yield

How much are the Management fee's / Ground rent

That sure eats into any yield of an apartment by around 1.5%

I believe if you're 65 ,mortgage lenders won't give you a payback term on a mortgage of greater than 10 years ?

Surely its 7% gross rental yield plus ( in normal circumstances anyway ) a yearly capital appreciation in the value of your properties. Sure, house prices can go down but there cant be that much of a downside when your buying at the low end of the market.

Apparently the buy-to-let 'opportunists'/hopefuls are buying into care home rooms now.  Do you really really want to be sustaining Kenny?

Hey, it's Elkie Brooks on BBC4 - just like Janice Joplin but alive.

I know where I live the buy to let market took off in the years before the 2007 crash. With house prices going to the moon in a short space of time rental yield was by far secondary. It was a straight up bet that the capital value of properties would go up far more than rental yield. A lot of people used the yearly increase in capital value to fund their lifestyle so when the crash came they were all in negative equity.

Great thighs.

It could be a slightly low yield if all fee's have to come out of it but obv depends on quality, what area of the country you're in & what your long term aim is , my trouble is i doubt i'd get the mortgage

McMb - I wouldn't do it myself - but sometimes I think you should take an axe and kill everyone in sight.  And then go somewhat further to kill a lot of people you didn't see originally.  I can't help thinking you'd be happier.

Ya don't need a mortgage with the tank your carrying McMoon.

Bodil, this is for you old stick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0RfTsZvk4M

Jeezus - there's Captain Beefheart.  Stalin would have sorted him out.

Never really liked Lilac Wine, slippy.  But I did like Elkie.  Got an autobiography out (Finding my Voice) - will wait til it gets remaindered/kindled.

My god - is that the dead Winters brother?

Who can tell them apart?

And most famous for the Simpsons' zombie episode.  Actually quite funny.

Elkie Brooks sang the theme song 'We Love You' to A Very Peculiar Practice.   Its unsourceable. I've never been able to locate it.    Writing to a Radio 6 music-bod show is my last hope.

Aug 22, 2014 -- 5:57PM, paddletoe wrote:

Ya don't need a mortgage with the tank your carrying McMoon.

lol

Great song, great singer, great program - buy the DVD and you have it (like me) for ever (and repeated for ever).

McMb - I wouldn't do it myself - but sometimes I think you should take an axe and kill everyone in sight.  And then go somewhat further to kill a lot of people you didn't see originally.  I can't help thinking you'd be happier.

You have a habit of hitting the nail on the head bodil, just as i'd do to crags

Yes!

Jains Joplin ( great raw  blues/ rock  singer)  far far superior to Elkie Brooks( lightweight)

I had an endowment mortgage,6 years ago,switched to a repayment mortgage,over payments,now owe less than 5k on a £120k property.

happy days debt free end of year

It can give you a great sense of freedom to have your own house and mortgage free. In a way Rob is right
to look at propery as an alternative to relying just on his 9-5 job. It will make it easier tobear office life.

I'd get a letting agency to do the every day running of it,to give you freedom to enjoy every day life,time is money

Letting agents are not the way to go if you rent out property.
They take an awful lot for doing very little and you're still responsible if anything goes wrong.

I don't know about England, but there has been far more legislation for letting in Scotland introduced in the past two years.

Extra legislation means more work for councils which means more council jobs. To be paid for out of higher rents of course.

All the legislation they need to protect tenants is already in place.
It's legislation to protect landlords from rogue tenants that's needed. There isn't any at all at the moment.

toffee 87 is correct of course

it's not
free money



nice to have you back mr meerkat 

Hey Coach 

Thanks

How's you ?

Borrowing hundreds of thousands of pounds to place one-way bets, in this case on property prices. What can possibly go wrong?

If you're going to do it, the time to get involved is when interest rates are 10%-plus, prices are falling and everybody is losing money on property. The worst possible time to get involved is when interest rates are as low as they possibly can be, prices are rising and you're having to outbid thousands of other geniuses looking for free money.

Well said that man.

If I cant rent them out and I lose my job and house prices drop and interest rates increase dramatically then I could be in a spot of bother admittedly.  As opposed to doing nothing and working until I am sixty plus and not ever having enough money to move into a bigger place it is a bet I am willing to take.  Especially as I am currently mortgaged up anyway and at the mercy of interest rate hikes, house price crashes and an unstable job market regardless.

And as a last resort I would need my family to desert me in my hour of need for it all to go t1ts up.  Most of the people that got burnt in the past were buying at stupid prices, i honestly dont think I am...I realise that everyone thinks that.

go bankrupt!, its moral hazard but people are doing it as its been state endorsed already with the failed banks being bailed out by tax payers. Ireland are even doing debt forgiveness
.
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/personal-finance/sharp-increase-in-debt-write-down-deals-1.1730844

In one case, involving a couple in Cork, the bank had written off €195,000 in mortgage debt while allowing the couple and their two children to remain in the house.
The deal is believed to be one of the largest mortgage write-downs agreed by the State-owned bank. The couple had borrowed €478,000 to buy their home.
Under the terms of the deal, the family will have to service a new 30-year variable rate mortgage of €200,000, with an additional €100,000 being warehoused – effectively parked until a later date – and €195,000 written off.

Must be a crash bubble burst coming, otherwise it is a one way bet. 7 years after the start of the longest recession/depression in a hundred years and house prices are at new highs. thats as good as one way bet you can get surely with a 20 year investment

Its better to  be cautious. House prices in Britain have generally followed an upward trend
But things are completely different now and it would be possible to make 20,000 on rent but lose
25,000 on the house value. The big danger is if prices are falling in real terms for decades.

I don't believe house prices are risimg, even im London.

Plenty of people who bought just before the financial crisis are still sitting on properties worth less than they gave for them.
The ones who bought a year or two after the top when everybody said the market was shot and was going lower are now sitting on decent gains.

You see the safest time to buy is when things look black and prices are depressed through lack of buyers. You'll do well to find a bargain when things are picking up like they are now.
The housing market will certainly slump again at some point.
It always has and it always will. That is the time to pick up your bargains.
Although there is a certain amount of insulation from price drops with buy to let. Providing you can always find tenants of course.

House prices arent booming, they are not even as high as the previous peak 7 years ago iirc.

.
http://www.theguardian.com/money/2014/aug/19/uk-house-prices-record-high

The ONS index, which is based on completed mortgages, and so lags this data, showed prices had risen in all regions of the UK since June 2013. The biggest increases were in England, where the average price reached £276,000 and the index was higher than its pre-crisis peak in 2008. This has been driven by growth in London, the south-east and east of England, where prices have reached record levels.

hard to see prices not continuing to increase when demand continues to out strip supply

also mp's wont want their voters to suffer with "lower house prices" due to their restrictions so you wont get hard hitting policies.

the knock on efefct will be some time in the future if things dont naturally lower other countries will be a lot more atractive to invest in...and the workers wont suffer with a lower standard of living because housing and rents are taking a large chunk out.

the polititians do need to hit the housing bubble but they wotnt dare to...

its a no win situation and the people suffer either way....

Prices will fall once the Govt is unable to pursue policies needed to maintain the bubble. That moment is probably not far way now.

Property prices have little to do with supply and demand. They're determined by the price of credit, i.e. interest rates.

Take a look at the crash of the late 1980s, which continued for nearly a decade. Had hundreds of thousands of homes suddenly been demolished? Had millions of UK residents emigrated? No. Supply and demand remained stable.

But interest rates had sky-rocketed and remained sky-high, and there was nothing the government/Bank of England could do about it. Leaving the European exchange-rate mechanism, which had triggered the initial shock, made no difference.

well i suppose the 1st time buyers help wouldnt have helped the situation..

key is rate rises.....but if that happens the economy will suffer.

still maintain if your looking to invest in europe youd stay well clear of the uk because propty prices are way over priced...that impacts on costs.

other european countries are far more attractive

Property prices have little to do with supply and demand.

Wrong.
Build too many houses and prices level off and start to fall regardless of interest rates.
Then no one will lend on a depreciating asset which causes more price falls.
Look at Spain, look at Ireland.
They both built too many houses and ruined the market.

BTL and social housing should be abolished. We should aim for 100% home ownership. Housing benefit is nothing more a transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich, it inflates the house prices by subsidies (housing benefit). 100% home ownership means no one will retire and claim housing benefit till they die. Paying state pension and housing benefit to pensioner is unaffordable and if state pension is unaffordable in the future, then surely paying housing benefit as well will compound the costs of looking after pensioners.

Benefit breeders and disabled people living in rental properties for life is simply unaffordable. Mortgage is 25 years and many would get housing benefit for 40+ years, madness. It would be better if the government were to pay the mortgage on the condition that when one dies......the house is sold and the money goes back to the government. If one were to pay 20 years of the mortgage (4/5) and the government assisted for 5 years (1/5), then one after death can pass on 4/5 to their children and 1/5 back to the government.

Spain and Ireland both built too many houses, yet prices rose all through those building booms. They only fell after the banks failed and the supply of credit ceased.

Spain and Ireland built too many houses expecting the population to boom via immigration. The problem in Spain case is that people couldn't sell their house in their home country in order to emigrate to Spain. In Ireland case, they miscalculated the immigrants subjective behaviour. When there were no jobs after the boom, the immigrants moved out of Ireland and went elsewhere and the Irish people, unemployed, went elsewhere.

There was a documentary about 5 years ago showing a new 'town' and new houses. It was very nice, lovely big front gardens with driveways, spacious but quiet. A couple who bought a house up-front was the only family living in one street and the rest were empty. That's socialism and monetarism for you.

The reason supply and demand doesn't apply to homes is that demand varies not according to the number of people looking for a home, but according to the number of dwellings available.

If a village inhabited by three families in three houses builds a fourth house, then the children of each of those families will bid against each other to buy that new house for the same value as the three existing ones as long as a loan is available.

Increase the supply of houses and you just increase the number of households. The only constraint on prices is the supply and price of credit.

I wasn't disagreeing with your theory on S&D.....the problem is that S&D is distorted by £20bn+ subsidies and creation of money out of thin air.

If a village inhabited by three families in three houses builds a fourth house, then the children of each of those families will bid against each other to buy that new house for the same value as the three existing ones as long as a loan is available.
Or an outsider will buy it and forever stand accused of artificially inflating local property prices

the market is spain and ireland isnt ruined though.

its at an affordable level....

England's average price is unhealthy...ie.not affordable to the masses

ski
interesting view.

if politicians devalued the market (which they wont) then rents come down and so does housing benefits.....

The politicians don't need to devalue the market but stop creating money out of thin air. This will then allow S&D to function as intended and the price will fall. Changing the housing benefit system will bring the prices down as there will be no landlords buying up 'surplus' properties. Houses will then be sold based on market affordability.

which will also go down because there will be less money propping up the economy.....nice little vicious circle all because they let the market be a platform to mint it.


it will come back to bite the uk badly...

other european countries are a in a much better position to rise from the doom

"the market is spain and ireland isnt ruined though.

its at an affordable level...."

Now it is in Spain, you can pick up villas and apartments for literally peanuts. Prices have less than halved from say 8 years ago when I had people literally fighting over plots buying off plan. My mate just got rid of a villa for €200,000 when back in the day he paid €450,000 for it. People were turning up from the U.K. with barely enough for a 10% deposit. The banks were literally champing at the bit to give them the 40% balance on an interest free mortgage and then they pay the 50% balance in a couple of years when the property was complete.

Back then people going out to retire were getting €1.60 for their pensions and could afford the running costs and have a decent lifestyle quite easily, when the euro and sterling hit parity it left a trail of devastation as people could barely afford to get by let alone anything else. I left when the company I was working for ceased trading owing everyone fortunes. It was good while it lasted but the amount of people walking into the banks and just chucking the keys on the managers desk was horrendous. The amount of my clients who were investors who done serious money were untold.

Nothing will change.
The poor will pay rent and landlords will get richer.
Property prices will rise in the long run and they won't build enough houses to go round putting more upwards pressure on property and rents.

It's a bad time not to own your own house.

What a run property professionals have had since Labour were elected, with a good buying opportunity  thrown in after 2007.
All of them must love this country.

Spanish property can't get better with so much oversupply holding back prices.
People aren't buying because lenders are only granting 70% mortgages, if at all. That's because the security on the loans isn't guaranteed by rising house prices. It's more a case of the opposite.
So they're in a gridlocked situation.
There's no way out under present conditions - the market is ruined.

Aug 24, 2014 -- 12:46PM, SlippyBlue wrote:

"the market is spain and ireland isnt ruined though.its at an affordable level...."Now it is in Spain, you can pick up villas and apartments for literally peanuts. Prices have less than halved from say 8 years ago when I had people literally fighting over plots buying off plan. My mate just got rid of a villa for €200,000 when back in the day he paid €450,000 for it. People were turning up from the U.K. with barely enough for a 10% deposit. The banks were literally champing at the bit to give them the 40% balance on an interest free mortgage and then they pay the 50% balance in a couple of years when the property was complete.Back then people going out to retire were getting €1.60 for their pensions and could afford the running costs and have a decent lifestyle quite easily, when the euro and sterling hit parity it left a trail of devastation as people could barely afford to get by let alone anything else. I left when the company I was working for ceased trading owing everyone fortunes. It was good while it lasted but the amount of people walking into the banks and just chucking the keys on the managers desk was horrendous. The amount of my clients who were investors who done serious money were untold.

That's what happened when everyone got involved in making malinvestment.....fake economy based on funny money.

Supply and demand is not what counts, it is more important that people are secure in their jobs and a country has a growing and secure middle class. It dosn't mi
iatter if 1000 people want to buy a house if
they are not in the position to do so.
Now here is the problem, Britain and the rest of Europe are in decline, possibly termimal. It is almost
impossible for house prices to rise in the present circumstances.

We are living off money and people coming in from the rest of the world, especially london.But
this is not sustainable because we no longer produce or invent anything and everyone is getting
poorer in real terms.

same **** different fred

The only thing that can change this is if Britain, or even some other European country comes up with
some new industry to rival theimpact of the new computer industry of theUS in the 1970s This created
thousands, millions of new jobs and stoppedthe general decline in theUS and europe until now.
House prices are built on growing industrial wealth and nothing else.

so slippy.
spain etc had to go through the pain to get to that affordable level....

imo the uk has to do the same which it will try to avoid for the wrong reasons.

which ever party alows the market to deflate to an affordable level will always be labelled ...
but if the rets of europe are doing it then that simply puts them in a better position when the world economy stabilises.

who will seriously invest int he uk with sky high real estate???