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Politicians may deal in terminological inexactitudes, but I can’t think of many black-is-white, war-is-peace practitioners as downright deceptive as Iain Duncan Smith. Originally, the question was whether to put it down to simple stupidity, as he didn’t understand that the numbers he promised were impossible. Yesterday, poring over his big speech on welfare reform, a few of the more polite experts spoke of his “magical thinking”. But his motives and state of mind hardly matter to the millions affected by his evidence-free, faith-based policy-making.
His speech was a paean of self-praise. To read it, no minister has done such good for so many. This was a sublime response to a battery of critics who include Treasury briefers, the National Audit Office on the failure of his work programme, the chair of the UK Statistics Authority for his abuse of figures, and the Major Projects Authority awarding his universal credit an amber/red warning.
The man does have indefatigable self-confidence: “We are fixing society,” he says. The Times, Sun, Mail and Telegraph happily swallowed it whole, rather than explore the thickets of his benefit system. His great claim is that his reforms have been the key driver in getting people back to work.
Let’s start with where he’s right: this recession has been unlike any other, as employment fell by far less and now grows by far more than economists can explain. Fraser Nelson, the Spectator editor, eagerly backed the view that IDS’s big stick has been the “game-changer”.
But Jonathan Portes, head of the National Institute of Economic and Social Research, formerly Treasury and a Department for Work and Pensions economist, makes mincemeat of the claim. Comparing numbers with charts over time, he concludes: “The idea that those on JSA are getting a job more quickly than before the recession, let alone that welfare reform has anything to do with it, has no support in the data.” When it comes to the sick on employment and support allowance, numbers fell steadily from 2004, rose a bit in the recession and were starting to fall on trend. But now they’re rising again. Why? Portes says it’s “the result of the administrative chaos surrounding the Atos contract for the work capability assessment”.
Duncan Smith takes credit for one of Labour’s successes: Labour raised the number of single mothers into work from 46% to 58%. He says it’s higher than ever now, which is true – but only up by 2 percentage points in his time. He hurls accusations at Labour’s welfare bill: welfare expert Declan Gaffney says Labour cut the bill and kept it stable as a proportion of GDP – until the crash. It peaked in 2012 on IDS’s watch.
His universal credit was due this April to cover a million people: so far it covers just 16,000 easy households with no children, writing off £130m in failed IT. But you would never guess when IDS says it “completes the cultural shift”. Rolling many benefits into one doesn’t magically simplify them: the online form, 50 pages long, still needs to record every changing detail of every member of the household in real time.
Better incentives? Donald Hirsch, economist for the Joseph Rowntree Foundation, finds that on universal credit, families who work full-time can easily end up with less than if they worked part-time. Worse, it traps mothers at home: if one partner works, the second gains virtually nothing by taking a job. Nor does Duncan Smith say that 65p is cut from every extra pound earned. Raising income tax thresholds for the low-paid hardly applies to those on universal credit: most of the gain is lost as their benefit is cut back.
There are traps, hazards both moral and practical, in any benefit system. These deserve debate – but IDS prefers falsifications of reality. The bedroom tax, he says, is imperative. He doesn’t say that only 4% or 5% of people have moved as a result, the rest taking a huge hit, sending them to loan sharks and food banks. Nor does he tell of the doubling, by next year, of the number of working people drawing housing benefit, due to soaring rents and falling pay.
Take the disaster of his 20% cut and transfer of disability living allowance into personal independence payments (PIPs). Forced to delay existing cases to after the election, that’s a nasty gift of 3.6 million assessments for his successor. But worse, people applying now are held in a long backlog, often very sick.
Macmillan Cancer Support, campaigning hard about waits of over six months for be
nefits rulings, mentions one typical case: a 25-year-old father with advanced cancer waiting for PIP has almost no money. His wife has had to work while he cares for their baby. Without his PIP, he waits for carer’s allowance, severe disability premium, escape from the bedroom tax, bus pass, taxi cards to get to hospital and heating grant. Latest figures show only 24% of claims have been processed; the rest wait, and some claimants die waiting.
“There is a lot of misleading talk about sanctions,” Duncan Smith says. Indeed there is, by him. Any benefit system has to prevent fraud or idleness, but he must know how his Jobcentre Plus offices have become sanction factories, his staff under unbearable pressure to cut people off. Research by Inclusion finds an unprecedented gap between the number of unemployed and those drawing JSA – invisible people living on thin air.
Last week the Guardian reported the tragic death of a diabetic former soldier, sanctioned into starvation. Go to any food bank and you’ll find heartbreaking cases. Every week, my inbox tells of people struck off unjustly – the latest, Jim, was sent on a course by the jobcentre then struck off for not signing on, as if he could be in two places at once. Tricks abound as staff are forced to hit targets called “spinning plates”. With George Osborne taking another £12bn cuts after 2015, it’s possible Duncan Smith doesn’t know the abominations he oversees........
This man is destroying people's lives
His speech was a paean of self-praise. To read it, no minister has done such good for so many. This was a sublime response to a battery of critics who include Treasury briefers, the National Audit Office on the failure of his work programme, the chair of the UK Statistics Authority for his abuse of figures, and the Major Projects Authority awarding his universal credit an amber/red warning.
The man does have indefatigable self-confidence: “We are fixing society,” he says. The Times, Sun, Mail and Telegraph happily swallowed it whole, rather than explore the thickets of his benefit system. His great claim is that his reforms have been the key driver in getting people back to work.
Let’s start with where he’s right: this recession has been unlike any other, as employment fell by far less and now grows by far more than economists can explain. Fraser Nelson, the Spectator editor, eagerly backed the view that IDS’s big stick has been the “game-changer”.
But Jonathan Portes, head of the National Institute of Economic and Social Research, formerly Treasury and a Department for Work and Pensions economist, makes mincemeat of the claim. Comparing numbers with charts over time, he concludes: “The idea that those on JSA are getting a job more quickly than before the recession, let alone that welfare reform has anything to do with it, has no support in the data.” When it comes to the sick on employment and support allowance, numbers fell steadily from 2004, rose a bit in the recession and were starting to fall on trend. But now they’re rising again. Why? Portes says it’s “the result of the administrative chaos surrounding the Atos contract for the work capability assessment”.
Duncan Smith takes credit for one of Labour’s successes: Labour raised the number of single mothers into work from 46% to 58%. He says it’s higher than ever now, which is true – but only up by 2 percentage points in his time. He hurls accusations at Labour’s welfare bill: welfare expert Declan Gaffney says Labour cut the bill and kept it stable as a proportion of GDP – until the crash. It peaked in 2012 on IDS’s watch.
His universal credit was due this April to cover a million people: so far it covers just 16,000 easy households with no children, writing off £130m in failed IT. But you would never guess when IDS says it “completes the cultural shift”. Rolling many benefits into one doesn’t magically simplify them: the online form, 50 pages long, still needs to record every changing detail of every member of the household in real time.
Better incentives? Donald Hirsch, economist for the Joseph Rowntree Foundation, finds that on universal credit, families who work full-time can easily end up with less than if they worked part-time. Worse, it traps mothers at home: if one partner works, the second gains virtually nothing by taking a job. Nor does Duncan Smith say that 65p is cut from every extra pound earned. Raising income tax thresholds for the low-paid hardly applies to those on universal credit: most of the gain is lost as their benefit is cut back.
There are traps, hazards both moral and practical, in any benefit system. These deserve debate – but IDS prefers falsifications of reality. The bedroom tax, he says, is imperative. He doesn’t say that only 4% or 5% of people have moved as a result, the rest taking a huge hit, sending them to loan sharks and food banks. Nor does he tell of the doubling, by next year, of the number of working people drawing housing benefit, due to soaring rents and falling pay.
Take the disaster of his 20% cut and transfer of disability living allowance into personal independence payments (PIPs). Forced to delay existing cases to after the election, that’s a nasty gift of 3.6 million assessments for his successor. But worse, people applying now are held in a long backlog, often very sick.
Macmillan Cancer Support, campaigning hard about waits of over six months for be
nefits rulings, mentions one typical case: a 25-year-old father with advanced cancer waiting for PIP has almost no money. His wife has had to work while he cares for their baby. Without his PIP, he waits for carer’s allowance, severe disability premium, escape from the bedroom tax, bus pass, taxi cards to get to hospital and heating grant. Latest figures show only 24% of claims have been processed; the rest wait, and some claimants die waiting.
“There is a lot of misleading talk about sanctions,” Duncan Smith says. Indeed there is, by him. Any benefit system has to prevent fraud or idleness, but he must know how his Jobcentre Plus offices have become sanction factories, his staff under unbearable pressure to cut people off. Research by Inclusion finds an unprecedented gap between the number of unemployed and those drawing JSA – invisible people living on thin air.
Last week the Guardian reported the tragic death of a diabetic former soldier, sanctioned into starvation. Go to any food bank and you’ll find heartbreaking cases. Every week, my inbox tells of people struck off unjustly – the latest, Jim, was sent on a course by the jobcentre then struck off for not signing on, as if he could be in two places at once. Tricks abound as staff are forced to hit targets called “spinning plates”. With George Osborne taking another £12bn cuts after 2015, it’s possible Duncan Smith doesn’t know the abominations he oversees........
This man is destroying people's lives
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It isn't that generous
Only if you don't believe your eyes.
How many of these long term scroungers are underweight or poorly dressed?
How many cars on the road are funded from welfare payments?
Look at the scroungers' kids all kitted out in new clothes while they're munching on their pop and crisps in their pushchairs. Being pushed by their mothers with a cigarette in their mouth carrying a can of pop, and another bun in the oven ready to claim for.
It's no wonder they won't work when they can get everything free off the state.
Only if you don't believe your eyes.
How many of these long term scroungers are underweight or poorly dressed?
How many cars on the road are funded from welfare payments?
Look at the scroungers' kids all kitted out in new clothes while they're munching on their pop and crisps in their pushchairs. Being pushed by their mothers with a cigarette in their mouth carrying a can of pop, and another bun in the oven ready to claim for.
It's no wonder they won't work when they can get everything free off the state.
IDS is only scratching the surface.
The UK is still a scroungers paradise.
The UK is still a scroungers paradise.
Look at the scroungers' kids all kitted out in new clothes
Please share your magical formula for telling "scroungers" kids from others just by looking.
Please share your magical formula for telling "scroungers" kids from others just by looking.
It's no wonder they won't work when they can get everything free off the state.
Are there any state food banks? Does IDS or any of his family need to use them?
Are there any state food banks? Does IDS or any of his family need to use them?
Dr Crippen
Ignorance and arrogance are not attractive features. And why are you venting your spleen at this section of our society?
You'd be better employed ' looking up ' at the fat cats who are stealing countless times the revenue that you think the ' scroungers' are getting. This Tory government love people like you. You have fell for the biggest con trick ever. I.e create a divisive society and get the less well off beating up and blaming their peers.
Ignorance and arrogance are not attractive features. And why are you venting your spleen at this section of our society?
You'd be better employed ' looking up ' at the fat cats who are stealing countless times the revenue that you think the ' scroungers' are getting. This Tory government love people like you. You have fell for the biggest con trick ever. I.e create a divisive society and get the less well off beating up and blaming their peers.
I left the UK to live in Ireland for two reasons, I have been followed by many members of my extended family. The reasons were -
1. The UK continues to suffer from the guilt of the "empire".
2. I spoke to many of those in a military hospital who had to fight for the UK 1939-45, to a man they say "if we had known this was how the country was going to turn out we wouldn't have bothered ".
Every time I read information like that above I know I made the right decision.
1. The UK continues to suffer from the guilt of the "empire".
2. I spoke to many of those in a military hospital who had to fight for the UK 1939-45, to a man they say "if we had known this was how the country was going to turn out we wouldn't have bothered ".
Every time I read information like that above I know I made the right decision.
Facts.
Why do you back scroungers?
Is it because you are one of them yourself?
Why do you back scroungers?
Is it because you are one of them yourself?
Are there any state food banks?
Absolutely, many food banks are funded by councils using state money.
Does IDS or any of his family need to use them?
Of course not they work for a living.
Absolutely, many food banks are funded by councils using state money.
Does IDS or any of his family need to use them?
Of course not they work for a living.
Don't forget that the flood of low paid immigrants has caused an annual bill of £5billion in tax credits.
high-brow tories, royals, bankers,utility companies, the real scroungers, cant believe some people still fall for daily mail shyte.
yeah he's a right Arse
he was the only one who helped my wife's
Irish friend and her Colombian Husband get
a passport visa that would allow them to holiday
in Spain,
he was the only one who helped my wife's
Irish friend and her Colombian Husband get
a passport visa that would allow them to holiday
in Spain,
As i've said before i fully support IDS in his attempt to get individuals and their families off welfare however he's not doing enough.It's not that many years ago that the undeserving poor would have ended up in the workhouse and whilst not advocating the return of such institutions a way has to be found of getting the feckless,indolent and lazy into working for a living. It is reasonably clear that there are tens of thousands of families where they've been breeding like rabbits and have sponged off the State receiving generous housing and cash benefits and spending their days doing nothing to contribute to Society.If i were in IDS's position I would stop the problem from multiplying by preventing the women in these 'problem' families from having children. Thereafter all able bodied men and women under the retirement age would be either given three months to get jobs and if they fail their benefits would be restricted to subsistence level.They would then be made to live in old army camps and subjected to a military type regime with the aim of instilling discipline ,getting them fit and giving them training for various vocations.
To some this might sound a tad harsh but in my view drastic measures are needed to deal with this huge problem.It's ridiculous that the tax payer should have to subsidise these people.
To some this might sound a tad harsh but in my view drastic measures are needed to deal with this huge problem.It's ridiculous that the tax payer should have to subsidise these people.
As i've said before i fully support IDS in his attempt to get individuals and their families off welfare however he's not doing enough.It's not that many years ago that the undeserving poor would have ended up in the workhouse and whilst not advocating the return of such institutions a way has to be found of getting the feckless,indolent and lazy into working for a living. It is reasonably clear that there are tens of thousands of families where they've been breeding like rabbits and have sponged off the State receiving generous housing and cash benefits and spending their days doing nothing to contribute to Society.If i were in IDS's position I would stop the problem from multiplying by preventing the women in these 'problem' families from having children. Thereafter all able bodied men and women under the retirement age would be either given three months to get jobs and if they fail their benefits would be restricted to subsistence level.They would then be made to live in old army camps and subjected to a military type regime with the aim of instilling discipline ,getting them fit and giving them training for various vocations.
To some this might sound a tad harsh but in my view drastic measures are needed to deal with this huge problem.It's ridiculous that the tax payer should have to subsidise these people.
Thats how the 'final solution' started
To some this might sound a tad harsh but in my view drastic measures are needed to deal with this huge problem.It's ridiculous that the tax payer should have to subsidise these people.
Thats how the 'final solution' started
Of course not they work for a living.
No, decent people work for a living, if they are lucky enough to have a decent job. The likes of IDS and the Cameron crew meanwhile, are trying to make sure 100% of the workforce are on zero hours contracts. That way they can never be "scroungers".
No, decent people work for a living, if they are lucky enough to have a decent job. The likes of IDS and the Cameron crew meanwhile, are trying to make sure 100% of the workforce are on zero hours contracts. That way they can never be "scroungers".
posy, the forum gauleiter.
Maybe that would be a great idea though posy, since it would be sure to trigger the required revolution.
Maybe that would be a great idea though posy, since it would be sure to trigger the required revolution.
He does not look much like a Scots Guard but then Liam Fox does not look much like the lover of Natalie Imbruglia.
Umbriglia,Imbroglio? You know the one I mean.
Umbriglia,Imbroglio? You know the one I mean.
Dr Crippen
Food banks being funded by councils ?
Really ?
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/20/emergency-welfare-scheme-local-councils
Food banks being funded by councils ?
Really ?
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/20/emergency-welfare-scheme-local-councils
We're in a situation that we created in the 1970's - effectively we pour resources into encouraging the least "fit" to procreate.
No other species does this, and its unsustainable.
Problem is, you can't pull the rug out from under the feet of these people without being cruel.
It took a generation to get into this mess, and in my opinion it will take a generation to get us out.
My luvvie-of-centre solution is to set those born from 2016 onward as the "year zeroers" (assuming we agreed on the policy now, this would give us 16 months to enact the law and get the word out). So, anyone born from then onward will not have an automatic right to housing, benefits, or anything else.
No other species does this, and its unsustainable.
Problem is, you can't pull the rug out from under the feet of these people without being cruel.
It took a generation to get into this mess, and in my opinion it will take a generation to get us out.
My luvvie-of-centre solution is to set those born from 2016 onward as the "year zeroers" (assuming we agreed on the policy now, this would give us 16 months to enact the law and get the word out). So, anyone born from then onward will not have an automatic right to housing, benefits, or anything else.
To clarify So, anyone born from then onward will not have an automatic right to housing, benefits, or anything else - when they reach the age they'd normally get them.
Food banks being funded by councils ?
Really ?
Absolutely, and your link confirms it - £136m allocated to local welfare schemes.
And that's on top of their housing benefit and all the cash they receive.
Really ?
Absolutely, and your link confirms it - £136m allocated to local welfare schemes.
And that's on top of their housing benefit and all the cash they receive.
Stevie Strikes
We're in a situation that we created in the 1970's - effectively we pour resources into encouraging the least "fit" to procreate.
No other species does this, and its unsustainable.
The good people of the world should be shagging and impregnating women like crazy.
History tells us that no culture with a fertility rate of less than 1.6% has survived.
Mayans, Incas, Aztecs and lots more, all gone.
By 2500 the world will probably be muslim.
Then the can wipe each other off the face of the Earth, and Mother Nature can start from scratch.
We're in a situation that we created in the 1970's - effectively we pour resources into encouraging the least "fit" to procreate.
No other species does this, and its unsustainable.
The good people of the world should be shagging and impregnating women like crazy.
History tells us that no culture with a fertility rate of less than 1.6% has survived.
Mayans, Incas, Aztecs and lots more, all gone.
By 2500 the world will probably be muslim.
Then the can wipe each other off the face of the Earth, and Mother Nature can start from scratch.
Impending rant coming up, (i ran out of time to complete it).
Gotta get ready for my trip to the pool to join the blue rinse brigade lovelies in our "Aquafit session."
Gotta get ready for my trip to the pool to join the blue rinse brigade lovelies in our "Aquafit session."
We're in a situation that we created in the 1970's - effectively we pour resources into encouraging the least "fit" to procreate.
No other species does this, and its unsustainable.
You've hit the nail on the head.The problem can be traced back to the watershed decade of the 1960s where 'values' were done away with and the labour governments started the shift away from Social Security being a subsistence payment to what it has become today where thousands of problem families fervently believe the State owes them a comfortable life as a right. As Steve Strikes points out this is an unsustainable situation and rather than people just abusing me on here for putting up a solution why not post your ideas of how we can get out of the current dependency situation that many families are in.
Bear in mind all these people have received National Health and free schooling...they've been given at taxpayers expense the basic tools for free;surely that's enough and as a tax payer myself i see no reason why they don't have to work to live.
No other species does this, and its unsustainable.
You've hit the nail on the head.The problem can be traced back to the watershed decade of the 1960s where 'values' were done away with and the labour governments started the shift away from Social Security being a subsistence payment to what it has become today where thousands of problem families fervently believe the State owes them a comfortable life as a right. As Steve Strikes points out this is an unsustainable situation and rather than people just abusing me on here for putting up a solution why not post your ideas of how we can get out of the current dependency situation that many families are in.
Bear in mind all these people have received National Health and free schooling...they've been given at taxpayers expense the basic tools for free;surely that's enough and as a tax payer myself i see no reason why they don't have to work to live.
posy, I gather the policy has something to do with producing enough children to sustain their parent's and granparent's pensions, because the pension system is one giant Ponzi scheme. Or something.
myself i see no reason why they don't have to work to live.
I see no reason why people who want to work are forced onto zero hours contracts. You seem fond of quoting stuff from the sixties, which is around the time the 40 hour week was consolidated, with union pressure of course. Then there's holiday pay, sick pay etc etc. No doubt you'd abolish all that too.
I see no reason why people who want to work are forced onto zero hours contracts. You seem fond of quoting stuff from the sixties, which is around the time the 40 hour week was consolidated, with union pressure of course. Then there's holiday pay, sick pay etc etc. No doubt you'd abolish all that too.
Bear in mind all these people have received National Health and free schooling...they've been given at taxpayers expense the basic tools for free;surely that's enough and as a tax payer myself i see no reason why they don't have to work to live.
Tell this to the thousands and thousands who want to work, but there are no jobs for them
Tell this to the people who are working ,but whose pay is so low they can't afford to put food on the table and are forced to use the food banks.
Tell this to the people who are sick and disabled and unable to work, but have had there benefits removed, because some third party organisation hired by the government has counted the ' boxes ticked ' and have deemed them fit for work.
Open your eyes man and see what's happening to a huge swathe of this country's population . The divide between the have and have nots is growing ever wider. And fascists like you would have it so.
Tell this to the thousands and thousands who want to work, but there are no jobs for them
Tell this to the people who are working ,but whose pay is so low they can't afford to put food on the table and are forced to use the food banks.
Tell this to the people who are sick and disabled and unable to work, but have had there benefits removed, because some third party organisation hired by the government has counted the ' boxes ticked ' and have deemed them fit for work.
Open your eyes man and see what's happening to a huge swathe of this country's population . The divide between the have and have nots is growing ever wider. And fascists like you would have it so.
1. Deport every immigrant who has no job.
Then have a recount of the benefits bill before deciding step 2.
For me.
Then have a recount of the benefits bill before deciding step 2.
For me.
Simple solution, affordable rents, i.e. young single person in a one bedroomed house in the SE of England paying £400 a month rent, on minimum wage they are better off not working, this is unsustainable, cap the rents at £100 per month and give people an incentive to work.
We force them to get a job. Then there will still be maybe 1.5m unemployed. Who really knows as the figures as manipulated to fck.
What do we then do with the 1.5m? A work camp? 60 quid a week to pick up leaves?
Housing benefit was mentioned. The reason that bill is so high is because house prices are out of control. House prices cannot fall as much as they need to, as it would 1) ruin the banks (who are most responsible for putting us in the mess and 2) it would destroy the 'aspirational dream' of having other people pay your own mortgage.
What do we then do with the 1.5m? A work camp? 60 quid a week to pick up leaves?
Housing benefit was mentioned. The reason that bill is so high is because house prices are out of control. House prices cannot fall as much as they need to, as it would 1) ruin the banks (who are most responsible for putting us in the mess and 2) it would destroy the 'aspirational dream' of having other people pay your own mortgage.
Certainly not your version of the ' final solution ' posy.
For a start I'd introduce a super tax for the mega rich
I'd bring in a super mansion tax.to reap revenue from the huge amount of multi million pound homes sitting empty in and around the city of London.
I'd make it illegal for any company to make profits from sales in the uk to not pay the correct level of tax./ vat etc.
I'd abolish the obscenity of million pound bonuses being awarded to anyone.
I'd stop the paying of mp expenses for anything other than proved essentials. The money ripped off of taxpayers by the payment of 'expenses' far outweighs any ' benefit fraud ' by so called ' scrounges '
In other words if you earn more and are super wealthy then you contribute more to the workings of this country . At the moment lawyers etc, earn millions finding ways for their clients to avoid tpaying what they should. So that these clients can live a life of untold luxury on the backs of those that have to choose wether any money they have goes on food or heating the house( for those still fortunate to live in one) this winter. In this country of ours millions are living below the poverty line. People are going hungry, people have nowhere to live, children are dying. The sick and disabled are having the door shut in their face. We should be ashamed.
And the lies we are fed, puts the blame on immigrants and on the scrounges in our society. The deprivation that millions are suffering is down to these two factors is the line that keeps being spewed out, mainly by the people who aren't much better off. They point downwards, because it's something they can understand and it's easy to find fault and blame in those sections of society. To ' look up' at the section of society that's really to blame is too difficult. It's not easy to have a voice to these people, the small percent who own the majority of wealth. Not surprising really, because to all intents and purposes they live on a different planet !
For a start I'd introduce a super tax for the mega rich
I'd bring in a super mansion tax.to reap revenue from the huge amount of multi million pound homes sitting empty in and around the city of London.
I'd make it illegal for any company to make profits from sales in the uk to not pay the correct level of tax./ vat etc.
I'd abolish the obscenity of million pound bonuses being awarded to anyone.
I'd stop the paying of mp expenses for anything other than proved essentials. The money ripped off of taxpayers by the payment of 'expenses' far outweighs any ' benefit fraud ' by so called ' scrounges '
In other words if you earn more and are super wealthy then you contribute more to the workings of this country . At the moment lawyers etc, earn millions finding ways for their clients to avoid tpaying what they should. So that these clients can live a life of untold luxury on the backs of those that have to choose wether any money they have goes on food or heating the house( for those still fortunate to live in one) this winter. In this country of ours millions are living below the poverty line. People are going hungry, people have nowhere to live, children are dying. The sick and disabled are having the door shut in their face. We should be ashamed.
And the lies we are fed, puts the blame on immigrants and on the scrounges in our society. The deprivation that millions are suffering is down to these two factors is the line that keeps being spewed out, mainly by the people who aren't much better off. They point downwards, because it's something they can understand and it's easy to find fault and blame in those sections of society. To ' look up' at the section of society that's really to blame is too difficult. It's not easy to have a voice to these people, the small percent who own the majority of wealth. Not surprising really, because to all intents and purposes they live on a different planet !
jackdanny 18 Aug 14 13:29
Simple solution, affordable rents, i.e. young single person in a one bedroomed house in the SE of England paying £400 a month rent
£400 a month ain't a good example mate.
I rented in the cheap end of London for 6 weeks in the spring of 2005, while waiting for house sales to go through.
A refurnished 3 bed ex-council property on a sh!tty estate cost me £275 a week.
The week after we moved out the landlord let it to the local council.
Within days, an immigrant family were in it.
Up to January 2008 the man of the house had never worked.
I never visited that area after 2008, but it's a shade of odds on that he's probably still there with his wife and kids, and not working.
There should be a survey on how much Housing Benefit is paid out in London alone, then compare that figure with the rest of the UK.
Simple solution, affordable rents, i.e. young single person in a one bedroomed house in the SE of England paying £400 a month rent
£400 a month ain't a good example mate.
I rented in the cheap end of London for 6 weeks in the spring of 2005, while waiting for house sales to go through.
A refurnished 3 bed ex-council property on a sh!tty estate cost me £275 a week.
The week after we moved out the landlord let it to the local council.
Within days, an immigrant family were in it.
Up to January 2008 the man of the house had never worked.
I never visited that area after 2008, but it's a shade of odds on that he's probably still there with his wife and kids, and not working.
There should be a survey on how much Housing Benefit is paid out in London alone, then compare that figure with the rest of the UK.
Facts an interesting response although it is not answering the question of what to do about the tens of thousands of families who contribute nothing to society and are generationally conditioned to believe they have the right to claim benefits which give them a much better standard of living than many who actually work. You have actually outlined your left wing belief in the redistribution of wealth and income which is not one i agree with, but that's beside the point because it's not the issue we're trying to resolve.
How are you proposing to restrict the hopeless cases from breeding like rabbits thus costing both left and right wing taxpayers billions of pounds . Or perhaps i've misunderstood you and you are not concerned about this problem and are happy for them to ever multiply.
How are you proposing to restrict the hopeless cases from breeding like rabbits thus costing both left and right wing taxpayers billions of pounds . Or perhaps i've misunderstood you and you are not concerned about this problem and are happy for them to ever multiply.
Your statements
'......'To restrict the hopeless cases from breeding like rabbits....... '
and
' happy for them to ever multiply '
Do not deserve to be dignified by an answer.
'......'To restrict the hopeless cases from breeding like rabbits....... '
and
' happy for them to ever multiply '
Do not deserve to be dignified by an answer.
Facts 4 million + have come and are still coming from all over Europe .We have untold illegal immigrants and asylum seekers plus enormous numbers risking life and limb to reach these shores .
Do you think these people would be or trying to get here if ,according to you,
is equivalent to a third world country where the poor and disabled are in a dire state .
Most people accept that the Welfare State needs reforming and that abuse of the system is a problem you may not share that view and we
should have more of the same?
When dealing with millions of people dependent on the state mistakes will be made and the genuine claimants will suffer but in most cases the situation will be rectified . The critics of reform are quick to pinpoint these rare cases which are sad but inevitable when the situation as been allowed to get out of hand.
Your solution would make a minimal impression ,although abuse at all levels should be tackled,on the abuses of the Welfare State .
Facts you are entitled to your opinion but I find it offensive you use the fascist slur with people who do nt share your view which is similar to the slur of 'racist' to those of us who highlighted the problems of unlimited immigration would have on communities and housing ,jobs and the Health Service .
The people who made those slurs are now in the fore front of saying it is a problem that must be addressed.
Do you think these people would be or trying to get here if ,according to you,
is equivalent to a third world country where the poor and disabled are in a dire state .
Most people accept that the Welfare State needs reforming and that abuse of the system is a problem you may not share that view and we
should have more of the same?
When dealing with millions of people dependent on the state mistakes will be made and the genuine claimants will suffer but in most cases the situation will be rectified . The critics of reform are quick to pinpoint these rare cases which are sad but inevitable when the situation as been allowed to get out of hand.
Your solution would make a minimal impression ,although abuse at all levels should be tackled,on the abuses of the Welfare State .
Facts you are entitled to your opinion but I find it offensive you use the fascist slur with people who do nt share your view which is similar to the slur of 'racist' to those of us who highlighted the problems of unlimited immigration would have on communities and housing ,jobs and the Health Service .
The people who made those slurs are now in the fore front of saying it is a problem that must be addressed.
Facts 4 million + have come and are still coming from all over Europe .We have untold illegal immigrants and asylum seekers plus enormous numbers risking life and limb to reach these shores
Less than 2 million net migration in the last 10 years
Less than 2 million net migration in the last 10 years
Epicurean
Extract from an earlier post by posy
I would stop the problem from multiplying by preventing the women in these 'problem' families from having children. Thereafter all able bodied men and women under the retirement age would be either given three months to get jobs and if they fail their benefits would be restricted to subsistence level.They would then be made to live in old army camps and subjected to a military type regime with the aim of instilling discipline ,getting them fit and giving them training for various vocations.
This ' solution ' is fascism in my book
Extract from an earlier post by posy
I would stop the problem from multiplying by preventing the women in these 'problem' families from having children. Thereafter all able bodied men and women under the retirement age would be either given three months to get jobs and if they fail their benefits would be restricted to subsistence level.They would then be made to live in old army camps and subjected to a military type regime with the aim of instilling discipline ,getting them fit and giving them training for various vocations.
This ' solution ' is fascism in my book
And as IDS does his best to save a couple of million at the expense of the vulnerable Theresa May spunks off a quarter of a billion.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28840966
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28840966
Yep. Just one of many instances of huge sums of money being either spent,wasted or defrauded. Hey but let's blame the immigrants and benefit scrounges - more easily understood by the plebs !
The first step towards reversing the decline would be to only allow income tax payers the right to vote.
We could do the same for local council elections by only giving people who pay council tax the right to vote.
These changes would be a major step towards putting things straight.
Why should people who don't pay income tax be allowed to vote for tax increases, for the money to be spent on bigger benefits?
Political parties are bribing the scroungers to vote for them using tax payers money.
We could do the same for local council elections by only giving people who pay council tax the right to vote.
These changes would be a major step towards putting things straight.
Why should people who don't pay income tax be allowed to vote for tax increases, for the money to be spent on bigger benefits?
Political parties are bribing the scroungers to vote for them using tax payers money.
Whats the revenue lost to the government by non tax payers( ' scroungers '? ) vs revenue lost to the country by creative accounting for fat cats and big businesses ?
what's that got to do with the price of fish ?
The question is what would YOU do about the tens of thousand of scrounger/scum families ?
The question is what would YOU do about the tens of thousand of scrounger/scum families ?
Give us some proper figs. Dont just keep waving a banner of hysterical generalisations i.e tens of thousands of scroungers/scum families. What arrogance.
How many people exactly are 'scroungers'?
Define scroungers
Define scum
What revenue are they taking out of the economy ?
How many people exactly are 'scroungers'?
Define scroungers
Define scum
What revenue are they taking out of the economy ?
Whoever it was that said Julius Streicher was dead is obviously wrong.
and his pal "Pol Pot" who wants to take us back to the year zero 
Louise Casey, the head of the Government’s troubled families unit, says the state should “interfere” and tell women it is irresponsible to keep having children when they are already struggling to cope.
The Government must not be a “soft touch” but instead be prepared to “get stuck in”, challenge taboos and change lives.
Britain’s 120,000 problem families cost taxpayers an estimated £9 billion in benefits, crime, anti-social behaviour and health care. A fifth of them have more than five children.
Now tell me what YOU would do about them ?
The Government must not be a “soft touch” but instead be prepared to “get stuck in”, challenge taboos and change lives.
Britain’s 120,000 problem families cost taxpayers an estimated £9 billion in benefits, crime, anti-social behaviour and health care. A fifth of them have more than five children.
Now tell me what YOU would do about them ?
So what would you do about them Gruppenführer Posy? Extermination perhaps or would you be happy with sterilisation and put into work camps until death?
£75,000 per problem family per year (according to dubious Govt statistics [always reliable])
I doubt any sensible organisation would come up with the label "problem families", looks like the telegraph used that from the governments original 'troubled families'.
You can see the agenda clearly, those familes needing help and troubled are a problem for those that read the telegraph
You can see the agenda clearly, those familes needing help and troubled are a problem for those that read the telegraph
there is, however, one problem family living at the taxpayers' expense which costs far more than that
All political parties have betrayed the British working class History shows that the only way that living standards improve for both middle and lower classes is when there is a shortage of labour. Surprisingly
although it is counter- intuitive a labour shortage not only benefits indivjduals it also benifits industry
and the country. (It is not difficult to see why)
The massive increase in immkgration means it will be impossible for Britain to be prosperous again.
although it is counter- intuitive a labour shortage not only benefits indivjduals it also benifits industry
and the country. (It is not difficult to see why)
The massive increase in immkgration means it will be impossible for Britain to be prosperous again.
mightymac if you read this thread i've set out very clearly what i think should be done and with one or two notable exceptions most have responded by name calling.All i'm asking for is Facts to tell me what he would do rather than just refer to me as a fascist which assuredly i'm not.
I just can`t understand how they can refer to you as a fascist.
Everybody should be made work, providing they are fit, including the Royal Family and their aristocratic friends and Everybody from a road sweeper to a brain surgeon should be paid the same wage.
cant we sterilise the royal family to stop them breeding and scrounging
I have already told you.
Distribute the 99% of the wealth owned by 1% of the population, and people on the poverty line will have somewhere to live, will receive a better education and standard of living. will become contributing members of society, and be made to feel of worth.
As opposed to now, where they have no hope, ill educted and bought up in ( at best) sink estates where they're all put together to rot.And then you wonder why these areas are crime ridden.They have no hope, they're on the streets, no hope of a job.Outcasts in society. Many hungry and sick. Made to feel hopeless, useless, worthless.Its a shameful way to allow to people to get to this stage and be allowed to live like this in the 21st century.
Distribute the 99% of the wealth owned by 1% of the population, and people on the poverty line will have somewhere to live, will receive a better education and standard of living. will become contributing members of society, and be made to feel of worth.
As opposed to now, where they have no hope, ill educted and bought up in ( at best) sink estates where they're all put together to rot.And then you wonder why these areas are crime ridden.They have no hope, they're on the streets, no hope of a job.Outcasts in society. Many hungry and sick. Made to feel hopeless, useless, worthless.Its a shameful way to allow to people to get to this stage and be allowed to live like this in the 21st century.
To be clear, a shortage of labour overrides everything else in being a good thing.
And again because I am not sure any of our parties realise this it is not just good
for workers but it is good for every aspect of a countries society
It is so fundamental to the success of a nation.
And again because I am not sure any of our parties realise this it is not just good
for workers but it is good for every aspect of a countries society
It is so fundamental to the success of a nation.
lfc1971, you're miles ahead of the field with a post like that.
Most of these working class left wingers can't see any further than their next benefit payments.
Even more of them that work still think that Labour are on the side of the working man.
They've all been sold down the river, and immigration is the evidence that no one can argue with.
Most of these working class left wingers can't see any further than their next benefit payments.
Even more of them that work still think that Labour are on the side of the working man.
They've all been sold down the river, and immigration is the evidence that no one can argue with.
My uncle had been a labour member since the late 1950s, on 2nd January this year he sent his membership card back. He said Keith Vaz with his one man welcoming commitee to those 2 Romanians was the final p!sstake.
From Team Leader to Dole Queue ~ I have been on both sides:
Here's a bit of reality and what it's like from my own view point.....
As a Team Leader i worked my nuts off for 50-60hrs per week, then was made redundant following the company's decision to sell/re-locate half the business to China with the then Labour Government's backing???
Over 14 years service then on the scrap heap as manufacturing in our once great country slowly ebbed away.
I went to the dole office - A truly awful place and one i wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. I signed on once! Then chose to swerve the opportunity of benefits of which I was "100% entitled to." I fecked off with my redundancy money for a spot of travelling at home and abroad which lasted some 18 months!
This is where it gets interesting...I was now ready to work again but firstly i started a new claim. As the weeks went by i found the job centre to be a place where the exact happened. Where were all these so called jobs? And furthermore, where was the help and advice?
I kid you not, i would literary be pleading for help and assistance to gain employment.
At every turn on each job centre visit i was repeatedly told - sorry sir, your time is up, i need to see the next person (poor bastard more like).
Off my own back i signed up to all the temping agencies in town. Workworld were the one's who got me on the payroll in next to no time. I'd escaped the dole and was on my way. I did all kinds of temping jobs, (also refreshing to watch and observe other team leaders giving instructions to the many idle and workshy workforce).
Then a temp driving job became available via the agency so i took it. Six happy months of delivering rehab supplies to our not quite fit and healthy country men and women on a daily basis passed when i got called into the office to say they had to let me go. Basically, it was a case in law that they had to take me on full time or reel in the next temporary sucker.
Next job was a storesman which became a rolling temporary contract still via worldword. Hey! I even had a paid week's holiday! Happy days!
After several months i got talking to my neighbour who said he knew someone who was looking for a driver and was I interested? Four years later, thanks to my new gaffer and my neighbour (of course) I was a fully self employed courier driver, on call 24/7, working 60-70+hrs per week and rolling in money.
Then one day things changed, for the worse.
On a delivery in London, i was sat at the traffic lights "on red" with "handbrake on" (as you do) when a van struck into the back of us at speed ! I'll never forget the name of the road as it was the same as Ian Dury's band. No not the fecking Blockheads lol.
Things were never the same from that day forward and eventually i could no longer do the lifting and bending and had to give the driving job up. Gutted being an understatement. This was November 2009.
Guess what! I went to the dole who told me I wasn't entitled to any benefits as i was "self employed" and "hadn't paid a full stamp" for the last four years, but would receive NI Contributions providing i signed on fortnightly.
I refused benefits when i was entitled to them, and when i needed benefits i wasn't entitled to them?
I'd gone from working all hrs to sitting in a room full of utter morons, who i'd best describe as ****g useless to society and incapable of any work. Trust me, you wouldn't employ these people, yet I was sat amongst them being talked down to by your typical BS employment consultant type with a flip chart.
The next week i stayed away and received a letter asking me why i didn't attend the dole and that my NI stamp wouldn't be paid if i couldn't give a valid reason. I NEVER WENT BACK!
I got word that my old place where I was Team Leader (for those of you who have read this far i salute you) as in the opening paragraph, were taking on. It was meant to be around christmas time, so i sat on my hands and waited and waited. The months went by and April 2010 was when i was back in the groove and working for them again. Some what reluctantly i might add.
One year passed and everything was going great. I was now working 7 days a week. Although my back was getting worse by the day i soldiered on. Think of the money? I thought it was just a virus i had as the pain seemed to move from by back and down my leg. A work colleague said it was sciatica.
On my way to work on Sunday 09th May 2011 my world was turned upside down.
I'd been working 7 days a week for weeks when all of a sudden something snapped in my leg.
Now who's the moron? as i lay on the floor on cardboard in the middle of the factory in sheer agony!
I should have gone straight to hospital from work but insisted my gaffer take me home.
Next day i hobbled into my Drs surgery and asked the receptionist if she could cut my leg off. That's how bad the pain was. Six months later i was under the knife having a back operation. For someone who has a phobia of needles and tubes that soon went out the window.
From bad to worse....The operation was not a success. Though it took two days for someone to come and explain what had happened? The horror on the ward nurses faces when i told them of my symptoms raised more than a red flag.
One of the neurosurgeon's team came to see me, closed the curtain and was practically pleading on his knees. Within the hour I had an emergency transfer to another hospital.
In came the ambulance guys who as one slid me (by the bed sheet) off my bed and onto the trolley and i was whizzed out the hospital as i said my goodbyes to fellow patients and ward staff. WTF is going on? Up the ramp and into the back of the ambulance where i was strapped down. I'm sure the driven was in a rally the speed he was travelling around bends.
When I finally got discharged i became the shadow of my former self. I was told to do feck all but rest for Six weeks. Any excuse to watch the PDC & BDO World Darts Championships!
Following the neurosurgeon's feck up i was left up **** creek and unable to return to full time employment and duly got shoved onto the ESA with no change insight.
I received a letter to attend the much hated ATOS for a medical assessment. It was ruled i was able to return to employment and i received Zero points of the 15 required on their "near to death" to still qualify for ESA assessment?
I appealed and took it to court.....
On the bench were a neurosurgeon and a judge, with a geezer frantickly typing away.
After 20 mins of arguing my case and telling the judge i'd have to be practically dead to pass the ATOS abomination plus having a go at the nuerosurgeon for being unable (or wanting to) to give me an answer or any advise as to why my back continuously seizes up after doing menial light duties after a couple of hrs...I was told my time was up and the result would be sent to me in the post.
We both knew it would be rejected, but it never stopped me going bananas as i sought answers and the head of the bastard who **** my back up up on a stick!
With everything **** up in my life, there was one thing i was still good at, though my practice became limited at the time. Being a seasoned money tournament player i continued to somehow drag my body across the midlands to enter tournaments. Though most journey's home were a nightmare once the adrenaline had worn off.
Two years after my op i qualified for the UK Open Darts @ Reebok Stadium in Bolton, Live on Sky Sports. (I may have mentioned it once or twice on the darts forum)
Having a goal to stay as fit as possible and continue to partake in tournaments was something that kept me going. Week on week i'd push myself through the pain barrier with the aid of top shelf meds and a large intake of booze (which i found to be the best sedative).
Never take Adrenaline for granted either. By far the best free drug of all!
There comes a time in your life when you reach the crossroads and realise something has to change, as moping about blaming others becomes a weight baring negative and won't change the past.
Earlier this year i went to London and qualified for the Darts National Masters Finals at Wolverhampton. Thus proving to myself i could still play to a good level and that my qualification to the uk open wasn't a fluke as some fellow jealous dart players may have suggested?
Positive changes - In the last three months i've put all darts on hold and knocked the booze on the head in an attempt to turn my life around. The intake of junk food replaced booze, mainly chocolate and ice cream. Mmmmmm Haagen Dazs.
In August of this month i went to see my Dr to change my meds as they were not only fecking me up mentally but making me drowsy etc..."You must go swimming" was drilled into me. So along with new meds i set about changing my ways and going all in - **** or bust! Kill or cure!
I joined the local leisure centre and now visit on a daily basis in order to stretch my "excessive scar tissue." There's something i missed out. After complaining to my Dr that i wasn't getting any better he sent me for follow up MRI Scans. The consultant fobbed off that it was excessive scar tissue."
The fact i'd been going for physiotherapy every week for several months, as well as twice daily back stretching exercises on my own convinced me it was a cover up!
So here i am typing away having returned from Aquafit session/jacuzzi/sauna.
Oh yeah, my diet has changed for the better. Out have gone potatoes, pasta and bread. In have come ryvita crispbread, cheese, many fruits and veg. Also taken a liking to tropical mix from my local grocers, (dried fruits & nuts). Previously it was chocolate and more chocolate. I now only drink water!
At the leisure centre, apart from daily exercises in the jacuzzi & sauna, i've also done Pilates, though i ache like feck the next day. Don't mind if it helps strengthen my back muscles etc...
This week i'll also be trying Yoga & circuit training classes. Zumba & Kettlebells will be in the near future (without over doing it)? If i see no progress with my back then at least i've given it my best shot and will be hunting that man down!
If successful, i'll be back on the job market and no more wasting my time at the useless work programme (something else i've yet to mention) on a fortnightly basis as they follow the ridiculous guidelines set out by the abhorrent slimeball that is IDS.
I have seen both sides of this divide and my experiences tell me i'd rather be in employment than on the dole. The choice of career dole sponger will always mystify me? I'm told these types know how to play the system. Like i said earlier, who would employ these sort anyway? More chance of training monkeys.
What i'd like to see is:
People who genuinely want to work to turn up at the dole centre demanding things:
1) Make an effort with their appearance for starters (not dressed like tramps).
2) Bang on the table and demand full time jobs that pay a living wage, with no zero contracts or temporary work.
3) If no joy with 1&2 then knock on your MP'S door demanding paid employment and leave your name, address and email. No point leaving your phone number, you may think it's a scam.
OK, 3 is a bit ott.
4) Go home knowing you've tried your damnedest to gain employment and repeat steps 1&2 the next day and day after...
5) Go from shop to shop enquiring about any vacancies, handing in your CV too. Go back the next day.
How many of the work shy do No'5?
Anyone with no illnesses or bad health not wishing to partake in any of the above to have all benefits withdrawn with immediate effect.
There are many fit and healthy ones amongst us who want to work but loathe to take the piss taking low paid minimum wage jobs. Tell me what you'd do if you were on your uppers?
You have a choice of job (now there's a novel idea!) - Work in retail hardly lifting a finger all day or become a factory/warehouse slave where you work your nuts off for the same crap pay as retail?
Some of us bust our balls to better ourselves. As for training new starters, in some cases i had people who didn't want to work and happily returned to the job centre? One of the best paid jobs in town yet some didn't want it? Madness!
Feel free to reply or even cut my post to shreds - I don't mind.
P.S.
I've read the posts, many good points and many selfish points too. Time to hit the send button...
~ dnb
Here's a bit of reality and what it's like from my own view point.....
As a Team Leader i worked my nuts off for 50-60hrs per week, then was made redundant following the company's decision to sell/re-locate half the business to China with the then Labour Government's backing???
Over 14 years service then on the scrap heap as manufacturing in our once great country slowly ebbed away.
I went to the dole office - A truly awful place and one i wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. I signed on once! Then chose to swerve the opportunity of benefits of which I was "100% entitled to." I fecked off with my redundancy money for a spot of travelling at home and abroad which lasted some 18 months!
This is where it gets interesting...I was now ready to work again but firstly i started a new claim. As the weeks went by i found the job centre to be a place where the exact happened. Where were all these so called jobs? And furthermore, where was the help and advice?
I kid you not, i would literary be pleading for help and assistance to gain employment.
At every turn on each job centre visit i was repeatedly told - sorry sir, your time is up, i need to see the next person (poor bastard more like).
Off my own back i signed up to all the temping agencies in town. Workworld were the one's who got me on the payroll in next to no time. I'd escaped the dole and was on my way. I did all kinds of temping jobs, (also refreshing to watch and observe other team leaders giving instructions to the many idle and workshy workforce).
Then a temp driving job became available via the agency so i took it. Six happy months of delivering rehab supplies to our not quite fit and healthy country men and women on a daily basis passed when i got called into the office to say they had to let me go. Basically, it was a case in law that they had to take me on full time or reel in the next temporary sucker.
Next job was a storesman which became a rolling temporary contract still via worldword. Hey! I even had a paid week's holiday! Happy days!
After several months i got talking to my neighbour who said he knew someone who was looking for a driver and was I interested? Four years later, thanks to my new gaffer and my neighbour (of course) I was a fully self employed courier driver, on call 24/7, working 60-70+hrs per week and rolling in money.
Then one day things changed, for the worse.
On a delivery in London, i was sat at the traffic lights "on red" with "handbrake on" (as you do) when a van struck into the back of us at speed ! I'll never forget the name of the road as it was the same as Ian Dury's band. No not the fecking Blockheads lol.
Things were never the same from that day forward and eventually i could no longer do the lifting and bending and had to give the driving job up. Gutted being an understatement. This was November 2009.
Guess what! I went to the dole who told me I wasn't entitled to any benefits as i was "self employed" and "hadn't paid a full stamp" for the last four years, but would receive NI Contributions providing i signed on fortnightly.
I refused benefits when i was entitled to them, and when i needed benefits i wasn't entitled to them?
I'd gone from working all hrs to sitting in a room full of utter morons, who i'd best describe as ****g useless to society and incapable of any work. Trust me, you wouldn't employ these people, yet I was sat amongst them being talked down to by your typical BS employment consultant type with a flip chart.
The next week i stayed away and received a letter asking me why i didn't attend the dole and that my NI stamp wouldn't be paid if i couldn't give a valid reason. I NEVER WENT BACK!
I got word that my old place where I was Team Leader (for those of you who have read this far i salute you) as in the opening paragraph, were taking on. It was meant to be around christmas time, so i sat on my hands and waited and waited. The months went by and April 2010 was when i was back in the groove and working for them again. Some what reluctantly i might add.
One year passed and everything was going great. I was now working 7 days a week. Although my back was getting worse by the day i soldiered on. Think of the money? I thought it was just a virus i had as the pain seemed to move from by back and down my leg. A work colleague said it was sciatica.
On my way to work on Sunday 09th May 2011 my world was turned upside down.
I'd been working 7 days a week for weeks when all of a sudden something snapped in my leg.
Now who's the moron? as i lay on the floor on cardboard in the middle of the factory in sheer agony!
I should have gone straight to hospital from work but insisted my gaffer take me home.
Next day i hobbled into my Drs surgery and asked the receptionist if she could cut my leg off. That's how bad the pain was. Six months later i was under the knife having a back operation. For someone who has a phobia of needles and tubes that soon went out the window.
From bad to worse....The operation was not a success. Though it took two days for someone to come and explain what had happened? The horror on the ward nurses faces when i told them of my symptoms raised more than a red flag.
One of the neurosurgeon's team came to see me, closed the curtain and was practically pleading on his knees. Within the hour I had an emergency transfer to another hospital.
In came the ambulance guys who as one slid me (by the bed sheet) off my bed and onto the trolley and i was whizzed out the hospital as i said my goodbyes to fellow patients and ward staff. WTF is going on? Up the ramp and into the back of the ambulance where i was strapped down. I'm sure the driven was in a rally the speed he was travelling around bends.
When I finally got discharged i became the shadow of my former self. I was told to do feck all but rest for Six weeks. Any excuse to watch the PDC & BDO World Darts Championships!
Following the neurosurgeon's feck up i was left up **** creek and unable to return to full time employment and duly got shoved onto the ESA with no change insight.
I received a letter to attend the much hated ATOS for a medical assessment. It was ruled i was able to return to employment and i received Zero points of the 15 required on their "near to death" to still qualify for ESA assessment?
I appealed and took it to court.....
On the bench were a neurosurgeon and a judge, with a geezer frantickly typing away.
After 20 mins of arguing my case and telling the judge i'd have to be practically dead to pass the ATOS abomination plus having a go at the nuerosurgeon for being unable (or wanting to) to give me an answer or any advise as to why my back continuously seizes up after doing menial light duties after a couple of hrs...I was told my time was up and the result would be sent to me in the post.
We both knew it would be rejected, but it never stopped me going bananas as i sought answers and the head of the bastard who **** my back up up on a stick!
With everything **** up in my life, there was one thing i was still good at, though my practice became limited at the time. Being a seasoned money tournament player i continued to somehow drag my body across the midlands to enter tournaments. Though most journey's home were a nightmare once the adrenaline had worn off.
Two years after my op i qualified for the UK Open Darts @ Reebok Stadium in Bolton, Live on Sky Sports. (I may have mentioned it once or twice on the darts forum)
Having a goal to stay as fit as possible and continue to partake in tournaments was something that kept me going. Week on week i'd push myself through the pain barrier with the aid of top shelf meds and a large intake of booze (which i found to be the best sedative).
Never take Adrenaline for granted either. By far the best free drug of all!
There comes a time in your life when you reach the crossroads and realise something has to change, as moping about blaming others becomes a weight baring negative and won't change the past.
Earlier this year i went to London and qualified for the Darts National Masters Finals at Wolverhampton. Thus proving to myself i could still play to a good level and that my qualification to the uk open wasn't a fluke as some fellow jealous dart players may have suggested?
Positive changes - In the last three months i've put all darts on hold and knocked the booze on the head in an attempt to turn my life around. The intake of junk food replaced booze, mainly chocolate and ice cream. Mmmmmm Haagen Dazs.
In August of this month i went to see my Dr to change my meds as they were not only fecking me up mentally but making me drowsy etc..."You must go swimming" was drilled into me. So along with new meds i set about changing my ways and going all in - **** or bust! Kill or cure!
I joined the local leisure centre and now visit on a daily basis in order to stretch my "excessive scar tissue." There's something i missed out. After complaining to my Dr that i wasn't getting any better he sent me for follow up MRI Scans. The consultant fobbed off that it was excessive scar tissue."
The fact i'd been going for physiotherapy every week for several months, as well as twice daily back stretching exercises on my own convinced me it was a cover up!
So here i am typing away having returned from Aquafit session/jacuzzi/sauna.
Oh yeah, my diet has changed for the better. Out have gone potatoes, pasta and bread. In have come ryvita crispbread, cheese, many fruits and veg. Also taken a liking to tropical mix from my local grocers, (dried fruits & nuts). Previously it was chocolate and more chocolate. I now only drink water!
At the leisure centre, apart from daily exercises in the jacuzzi & sauna, i've also done Pilates, though i ache like feck the next day. Don't mind if it helps strengthen my back muscles etc...
This week i'll also be trying Yoga & circuit training classes. Zumba & Kettlebells will be in the near future (without over doing it)? If i see no progress with my back then at least i've given it my best shot and will be hunting that man down!
If successful, i'll be back on the job market and no more wasting my time at the useless work programme (something else i've yet to mention) on a fortnightly basis as they follow the ridiculous guidelines set out by the abhorrent slimeball that is IDS.
I have seen both sides of this divide and my experiences tell me i'd rather be in employment than on the dole. The choice of career dole sponger will always mystify me? I'm told these types know how to play the system. Like i said earlier, who would employ these sort anyway? More chance of training monkeys.
What i'd like to see is:
People who genuinely want to work to turn up at the dole centre demanding things:
1) Make an effort with their appearance for starters (not dressed like tramps).
2) Bang on the table and demand full time jobs that pay a living wage, with no zero contracts or temporary work.
3) If no joy with 1&2 then knock on your MP'S door demanding paid employment and leave your name, address and email. No point leaving your phone number, you may think it's a scam.
OK, 3 is a bit ott.
4) Go home knowing you've tried your damnedest to gain employment and repeat steps 1&2 the next day and day after...
5) Go from shop to shop enquiring about any vacancies, handing in your CV too. Go back the next day.
How many of the work shy do No'5?
Anyone with no illnesses or bad health not wishing to partake in any of the above to have all benefits withdrawn with immediate effect.
There are many fit and healthy ones amongst us who want to work but loathe to take the piss taking low paid minimum wage jobs. Tell me what you'd do if you were on your uppers?
You have a choice of job (now there's a novel idea!) - Work in retail hardly lifting a finger all day or become a factory/warehouse slave where you work your nuts off for the same crap pay as retail?
Some of us bust our balls to better ourselves. As for training new starters, in some cases i had people who didn't want to work and happily returned to the job centre? One of the best paid jobs in town yet some didn't want it? Madness!
Feel free to reply or even cut my post to shreds - I don't mind.
P.S.
I've read the posts, many good points and many selfish points too. Time to hit the send button...
~ dnb
I`m glad come September we`ll be rid of Tories forever.
No offence dartsnbooze, I`m sure it`s very interesting in parts, but I`d be quicker reading War And Peace.
Welfare ( defined as means-tested benefits ) is currently covering two-thirds of parenting in UK.
The view that if you want kids you should pay for them yourself covers one-third of parenting in practicality.
I'd prefer to live in a place where the first cohort are covered by the 'safety-net' view of welfare, and the second view is the majority experience.
Alas, having and raising children on welfare is by a significant margin the default experience.
The view that if you want kids you should pay for them yourself covers one-third of parenting in practicality.
I'd prefer to live in a place where the first cohort are covered by the 'safety-net' view of welfare, and the second view is the majority experience.
Alas, having and raising children on welfare is by a significant margin the default experience.
post by Facts (18 Aug 14 13:40)
i agree
i agree
posy 18 Aug 14 18:36
at this point i give up on this thread
Good. Common sense got to you eventually.
at this point i give up on this thread
Good. Common sense got to you eventually.
re MPs expenses
i'd prefer a system where each party is allocated a set amount per MP and they can then claim whatever the feck expenses they like out of that
and an independent body to have absolute control over their salaries
i'd prefer a system where each party is allocated a set amount per MP and they can then claim whatever the feck expenses they like out of that
and an independent body to have absolute control over their salaries
Why should MPs get expenses?
They get over a grand week in wages.
They get over a grand week in wages.
Too true taxi, we have to make our own way to work at our own expense. They should too. If they disagree, they should be deselected and sent to work in a proper job rather than prop up the House Of Commons bar at the taxpayers expense.
themightymac 18 Aug 14 20:48
No offence dartsnbooze, I`m sure it`s very interesting in parts, but I`d be quicker reading War And Peace.
TMM, I concur it was long winded, but i have no regrets in posting how someone can go from working all hours to the dole queue. Anyway, for some odd reason my post has been removed?
I'm intrigued, did someone report my post as offensive, or did betfair not approve of said content?
I will email them to find out!
Glad i saved my post to email as it may return once i hear from the bf pc brigade.
War & Peace part 2...
Regards dnb ~ Currently on benefits due the imcompetence of a neurosurgeon!
No offence dartsnbooze, I`m sure it`s very interesting in parts, but I`d be quicker reading War And Peace.
TMM, I concur it was long winded, but i have no regrets in posting how someone can go from working all hours to the dole queue. Anyway, for some odd reason my post has been removed?
I'm intrigued, did someone report my post as offensive, or did betfair not approve of said content?
I will email them to find out!
Glad i saved my post to email as it may return once i hear from the bf pc brigade.
War & Peace part 2...
Regards dnb ~ Currently on benefits due the imcompetence of a neurosurgeon!
strange that it was removed, thought it was good (if long! ). Nothing really controversial in it
). Nothing really controversial in it
IDS is an arssehole so far out of his depth it's truly quite astonishing. A man who feels the need to lie about his education and qualifications.
A man so brave he insisted on being surrounded by bodyguards and armed police with machine guns when appearing in front of a select committee. His potential threat from danger? Disability rights campaigners protesting about the pain his disgraceful nutjob schemes have inflicted on so many.
A man so useless he continuously has to go to court (at unlimited expense) to block the truth about the failure and insane costs of said schemes. A department that lie to parliament about the true failure of their work. A department that refuse freedom of information requests to find out just how many hundreds of millions have gone up in smoke - on the grounds that they don't bother keeping a tally of costs Absolutely true.
So desperate to get people off benefits they employ a firm that guaranteed a bonus to work capability assessors for failing people even if they subsequently appealed and won. Even people terminally ill.
You could be all day here listing his total ****-ups and that he's been nothing short of a 24 carat disaster. The bottom line is there obviously has to be some sort of welfare reform. Channel 5 though and their 'entertainment bullshiit' shows do nothing but put across a caricature as if it were the norm and feed the frenzy.
To take a scythe to everyone though to catch a few and to hell with the rest or the consequences and misery they cause is not the way.
George Osbourne was right saying IDS is not clever enough. He's an arsse.
A man so brave he insisted on being surrounded by bodyguards and armed police with machine guns when appearing in front of a select committee. His potential threat from danger? Disability rights campaigners protesting about the pain his disgraceful nutjob schemes have inflicted on so many.
A man so useless he continuously has to go to court (at unlimited expense) to block the truth about the failure and insane costs of said schemes. A department that lie to parliament about the true failure of their work. A department that refuse freedom of information requests to find out just how many hundreds of millions have gone up in smoke - on the grounds that they don't bother keeping a tally of costs
Absolutely true.So desperate to get people off benefits they employ a firm that guaranteed a bonus to work capability assessors for failing people even if they subsequently appealed and won. Even people terminally ill.
You could be all day here listing his total ****-ups and that he's been nothing short of a 24 carat disaster. The bottom line is there obviously has to be some sort of welfare reform. Channel 5 though and their 'entertainment bullshiit' shows do nothing but put across a caricature as if it were the norm and feed the frenzy.
To take a scythe to everyone though to catch a few and to hell with the rest or the consequences and misery they cause is not the way.
George Osbourne was right saying IDS is not clever enough. He's an arsse.
DartsnBooze 19 Aug 14 06:53
TMM, I concur it was long winded,
I never saw it.
PM me a copy.
TMM, I concur it was long winded,
I never saw it.
PM me a copy.
DnB
Sorry to hear you're on benefits for the reason stated. Not sure it would be accepted under Posy's New Order though. You'd just be classed as a Scrounger ! !
Sorry to hear you're on benefits for the reason stated. Not sure it would be accepted under Posy's New Order though. You'd just be classed as a Scrounger ! !
People like Posy can go **** themselves!
Taxi & Facts, pm's on their way.
my post was mainly from my own experiences and what happened to me. It spanned 11 years and contained non self importance but highlighted real life issues that i had to deal with. Going from Team Leader, to working 7 days a week, to having a bodged back operation which left me unable to work. Shoved onto the dole, deemed fit to work following the **** ATOS Assessment etc...
How many of you who have posted on this thread have been unemployed at any given time through no reason of your own?
Taxi & Facts, pm's on their way.
my post was mainly from my own experiences and what happened to me. It spanned 11 years and contained non self importance but highlighted real life issues that i had to deal with. Going from Team Leader, to working 7 days a week, to having a bodged back operation which left me unable to work. Shoved onto the dole, deemed fit to work following the **** ATOS Assessment etc...
How many of you who have posted on this thread have been unemployed at any given time through no reason of your own?
Darts - Could you PM me too? I have an interest as Mrs S has had two ATOS decisions overturned at appeal.
posy 18 Aug 14 17:48 Joined: 18 Oct 03 | Topic/replies: 3,022 | Blogger: posy's blog
what's that got to do with the price of fish ?
The question is what would YOU do about the tens of thousand of scrounger/scum families ?
Minimum wage needs to increase significantly to make it worthwhile slogging out 40 hours a week and then taking home about a fiver more than you would get claiming dole money,
posy 18 Aug 14 18:03 Joined: 18 Oct 03 | Topic/replies: 3,022 | Blogger: posy's blog
Louise Casey, the head of the Government’s troubled families unit, says the state should “interfere” and tell women it is irresponsible to keep having children when they are already struggling to cope.
The Government must not be a “soft touch” but instead be prepared to “get stuck in”, challenge taboos and change lives.
Britain’s 120,000 problem families cost taxpayers an estimated £9 billion in benefits, crime, anti-social behaviour and health care. A fifth of them have more than five children.
9 billion is a drop in the ocean compared to what tax evaders / tax avoiders cost the country - how about you make as much noise bout them as you people do about those on benefits, there are lots of programs on the benefit culture and seldom any on the tax dodgers but yet they are the ones really draining the money, but going after them doesn't create the same sound bite that benefits cheats do, and it's easier to attack the poor too.
the last post I made on another thread the tories and voting on general was also very long winded and it was also deleted.
what's that got to do with the price of fish ?
The question is what would YOU do about the tens of thousand of scrounger/scum families ?
Minimum wage needs to increase significantly to make it worthwhile slogging out 40 hours a week and then taking home about a fiver more than you would get claiming dole money,
posy 18 Aug 14 18:03 Joined: 18 Oct 03 | Topic/replies: 3,022 | Blogger: posy's blog
Louise Casey, the head of the Government’s troubled families unit, says the state should “interfere” and tell women it is irresponsible to keep having children when they are already struggling to cope.
The Government must not be a “soft touch” but instead be prepared to “get stuck in”, challenge taboos and change lives.
Britain’s 120,000 problem families cost taxpayers an estimated £9 billion in benefits, crime, anti-social behaviour and health care. A fifth of them have more than five children.
9 billion is a drop in the ocean compared to what tax evaders / tax avoiders cost the country - how about you make as much noise bout them as you people do about those on benefits, there are lots of programs on the benefit culture and seldom any on the tax dodgers but yet they are the ones really draining the money, but going after them doesn't create the same sound bite that benefits cheats do, and it's easier to attack the poor too.
the last post I made on another thread the tories and voting on general was also very long winded and it was also deleted.
Spot on s_h
Made the same point myself in earlier posts, but people like posy find it too difficult to compute !
Made the same point myself in earlier posts, but people like posy find it too difficult to compute !
DartsnBooze - Please private message your post to me too if you don`t mind, it must have been controversial. Otherwise, Why would they remove it?
I read it there was nothing in it that warranted being removed. Just a tale of personal experience
Stevie Strikes,
my post won't help your wife, but if ever you go to court to appeal, give them hell!
Good on your wife for having ATOS appeals overturned - I wish her well.
The thing is, winning or losing an appeal changes nothing in terms of your wife's health.
The manager at the dole who i used to see when i started on ESA was the opposite to what i'd expected. He couldn't do enough for me. I had to draw the line when he suggested i should also claim for disability allowances (something i didn't want to admit, or claim for).
my post won't help your wife, but if ever you go to court to appeal, give them hell!
Good on your wife for having ATOS appeals overturned - I wish her well.
The thing is, winning or losing an appeal changes nothing in terms of your wife's health.
The manager at the dole who i used to see when i started on ESA was the opposite to what i'd expected. He couldn't do enough for me. I had to draw the line when he suggested i should also claim for disability allowances (something i didn't want to admit, or claim for).
Hi Rob,
Thanks for your email.
Unfortunately I cannot see the specific reason as to why it was taken down initially, after having a quick read through I cannot see anything in there that could break our Ts&Cs, [i](although I would refrain from using profanities as some people may find this offensive).
I have reinstated your post so this should be appearing.[/i]
The post is back up. Dated 18 Aug 14 20:46
For anyone with a fetish for sticking pins in their eyes then this is a must read.
After the excitement of following the Perth Darts Masters via texted code on the official pdc site, i'm off to the baths where i shall indulge in my daily jacuzzi/sauna/exercise session regime in my quest to sort out my ailing back problem.
Thanks for your email.
Unfortunately I cannot see the specific reason as to why it was taken down initially, after having a quick read through I cannot see anything in there that could break our Ts&Cs, [i](although I would refrain from using profanities as some people may find this offensive).
I have reinstated your post so this should be appearing.[/i]
The post is back up. Dated 18 Aug 14 20:46
For anyone with a fetish for sticking pins in their eyes then this is a must read.
After the excitement of following the Perth Darts Masters via texted code on the official pdc site, i'm off to the baths where i shall indulge in my daily jacuzzi/sauna/exercise session regime in my quest to sort out my ailing back problem.
profanities
Viz's Roger Mellie (the man on the telly) was the king of profanities and a particular fav of mine
Viz's Roger Mellie (the man on the telly) was the king of profanities and a particular fav of mine
strange why someone would report the post, shocking tactics from those who want to stifle debate
Not sure on which thread i posted about having an interview with Coral?
At the interview i talked shop for an hour with mine host cluster manager and shop manager and i went home with a somewhat feeling of trepidation that i may actually get the gig.
When asked if i had any other questions i had to hold back as my mindset to this is "I will excel in the role, you will not be disappointed employing me." Followed by "Why should i work for you?"
I mentioned neither and when told my starting salary would be £6.35 ph. I can honestly say I laughed. My worth is double that, or at least used to be.
I may have sealed my fate even more when upon producing my original birth certificate i said it's 48 years old.
Anyway, the cluster manager guaranteed me i'd receive a phone call whatever the outcome...
...I received an email...and here it is:
Dear DnB,
Re: Customer Service Assistant, Ref: NA
Many thanks for recently attending an interview for the post of Customer Service Assistant.
Unfortunately we are sorry to advise you that we will not be progressing your application further. After careful consideration, we decided that there were other candidates whose key skills and experience better suited the position.
Please feel free to also monitor our website to view our latest vacancies and remember to keep your details up to date so that we can contact you as soon as a suitable role becomes available.
Thank you again for your interest in Coral and we wish you the best of luck with your job search.
Kind regards
Resourcing Team
Coral
Better Key skills & experience - a woman who worked on the til in a 99p shop with zero knowledge of the betting industry! It's the reality of the retail world.
Did i mention the position was in the evening, 3hrs per shift with a total of 15 hrs pw.
I.E. There would have been no benefit changes whatsoever for me, infact i'd be doing them a favour.
At the interview i talked shop for an hour with mine host cluster manager and shop manager and i went home with a somewhat feeling of trepidation that i may actually get the gig.
When asked if i had any other questions i had to hold back as my mindset to this is "I will excel in the role, you will not be disappointed employing me." Followed by "Why should i work for you?"
I mentioned neither and when told my starting salary would be £6.35 ph. I can honestly say I laughed. My worth is double that, or at least used to be.
I may have sealed my fate even more when upon producing my original birth certificate i said it's 48 years old.
Anyway, the cluster manager guaranteed me i'd receive a phone call whatever the outcome...
...I received an email...and here it is:
Dear DnB,
Re: Customer Service Assistant, Ref: NA
Many thanks for recently attending an interview for the post of Customer Service Assistant.
Unfortunately we are sorry to advise you that we will not be progressing your application further. After careful consideration, we decided that there were other candidates whose key skills and experience better suited the position.
Please feel free to also monitor our website to view our latest vacancies and remember to keep your details up to date so that we can contact you as soon as a suitable role becomes available.
Thank you again for your interest in Coral and we wish you the best of luck with your job search.
Kind regards
Resourcing Team
Coral
Better Key skills & experience - a woman who worked on the til in a 99p shop with zero knowledge of the betting industry! It's the reality of the retail world.
Did i mention the position was in the evening, 3hrs per shift with a total of 15 hrs pw.
I.E. There would have been no benefit changes whatsoever for me, infact i'd be doing them a favour.
Tomorrow i will be attending an IDS Workshop special 
The sheet information as follows; "the customer (me) will attend a routine workshop at **** office.
This will look at the importance of routine, how to create a positive and structured routine.
My goal for the following week it to write a structured cover letter using the information and guides as highlighted by my work programme advisor.
I nearly asked if she was taking the piss in both cases.
After several years of supervisory/team leadership roles i am sure both of the above may just about fall into my remit.
The sheet information as follows; "the customer (me) will attend a routine workshop at **** office.
This will look at the importance of routine, how to create a positive and structured routine.
My goal for the following week it to write a structured cover letter using the information and guides as highlighted by my work programme advisor.
I nearly asked if she was taking the piss in both cases.
After several years of supervisory/team leadership roles i am sure both of the above may just about fall into my remit.
Structured routine? - I already have one:
Monday
6:00 - Awake. Porridge oats and a crackerbread.
6:20 - Cycle 10 mins to leisure centre for opening time:
6:30 - Sauna/jacuzzi/exercises.
8:30 - Cycle home and check the latest job vacancies online, apply for suitable jobs.
11:00 - Return to leisure centre - go in the sauna.
11:30 - Attend my Yoga class (90 mins).
13:00 - Cycle home and return to job hunting/looking for any updated jobs since my last visit.
16:00 - Feed stroppy teenager and sit through "Countdown" and "who's washing the dishes?" WTF!!!
18:00 - Feet up.
Tuesday...
Monday
6:00 - Awake. Porridge oats and a crackerbread.
6:20 - Cycle 10 mins to leisure centre for opening time:
6:30 - Sauna/jacuzzi/exercises.
8:30 - Cycle home and check the latest job vacancies online, apply for suitable jobs.
11:00 - Return to leisure centre - go in the sauna.
11:30 - Attend my Yoga class (90 mins).
13:00 - Cycle home and return to job hunting/looking for any updated jobs since my last visit.
16:00 - Feed stroppy teenager and sit through "Countdown" and "who's washing the dishes?" WTF!!!
18:00 - Feet up.
Tuesday...
How could one disagree with this dear lady?
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10407676_466689560139605_7408160075415913853_n.jpg?oh=26c77c97dbb458c6da5a64147f942e66&oe=54B0EA40&__gda__=1420950008_92fccb960852bb74ed64850cb7033bff
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