Artistic scammery

There is a reason that they still play football on grass and not astro turf.

lfc - hadn't read your impressionist bit. "Only came about after" is partly true but that is not to because of.  Artists were painting impressionistically well before the advent of premixed oil tube paint. Turner

If i could liken it to a snooker table, if the surface is too quick you will
hardly ever get a great match..likewise a painters canvas and how it is primed
plays a greater part than most, even painters themselves know

Nobody however, including Turner had painted like Monet, and the reason was largley
down to the paint and canvas used.

Whilst not doubting that football can reach the dizzying heights of art - even you would not claim that it is an "art form".  It is clearly a sport, and I think the majority of those have prescribed rules.

No it is an art

Have you never seen Jimmy Greaves!!

I did see Jimmy Greaves, but dont regard Football or Snooker as art forms.  And I dont agree with you in your assessment of cause and effect re Impressionism in general or Monet in particular.  We'll just have to agree to differ.  Happy to let you have the last word.

Enjoy your art.

....maybe someone should start a .."your favourite paintings" thread for the new year...

that would be fun....yep.

And to correct another misconception, the faster the table, the better the snooker. It is impossible to play good snooker on a slow table.

And to play when it slopes down hill, that's probably why no one's playing in Night Cafe.

....maybe someone should start a .."your favourite paintings" thread for the new year...

that would be fun....yep.

I'll get in early and say mine would be those of Klimt.
To counter the "Oil paint on canvas" theory many would consider his drawings superb and not just for the ...ahem...subject matter. Here is a link

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=klimt+drawings&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=YjbDUo7IF-XR7AbIkYCADg&sqi=2&ved=0CC0QsAQ&biw=1241&bih=605

Here's one that people say their 5 year old could do.

Cy Twombly's Temeraire triptych. Naive-style genius at its finest imho.

http://www.artgallery.nsw.gov.au/collection/works/239.2004.a-c/

There was an excellent exhibition of Twombly's work at the Tate a few years ago. Colours as moods and the passing of time. Sublime.

Indeed, Jed. Wish i had had the opportunity to see that.

I'm going to print a few of his off and stick them on the fridge with magnets... see if anyone notices!

Here is the 4 seasons, Autumn.

https://www.tate.org.uk/art/artworks/twombly-quattro-stagioni-autunno-t07889

Thanks for sharing those Clouseau.
Twombly invokes mixed feelings for me either good or bad but never indifferent. Quite often "I wish I'd thought of that".

I must confess I'd always regarded Twombly as a bit of a hack - seeing his pictures here and there in other galleries, one or two at a time, does not allow one to get into what he's trying to convey. But I left that exhibition a confirmed fan.

Matisse Cut Outs

...just started at the Tate....stuff he did when he poorly and in his final years.

http://www.tate.org.uk/context-comment/blogs/welcome-colourful-world-matisse-tate-modern

..and for anyone down my way or who wants a visit to a lovely part of the world...

an exhibition of Cezanne and others.....at the Ashmolean.

http://www.ashmolean.org/exhibitions/cezanne/

Most Jackson Pollacks works, to many people are a load of guff that could be done by anyone, and I totally understand why people would think this.

Yet to me, some of them are truly amazing and fascinating to me, and I cant explain why they just are.

egner   

31 Dec 13 18:25 
Joined:   11 Jan 07      | Topic/replies: 12,800  | Blogger: egner's blog   


....maybe someone should start a .."your favourite paintings" thread for the new year...


....I shall start one....possibly more interest in the autumn /winter when more people are inside...we shall see.

There's an article in today's Mail on Sunday supplement about Jackson P. -- wasn't aware that he did figurative black paintings not long before he died - he was fed up with the "typical" abstract action paintings he is so famous for these days...sales of the black paintings were poor so he started to introduce colour again.

The question for anyone who thinks the abstract stuff is so easy is this : Why don't YOU feckin' do it then...?

It's not like you need 50 million quid to make a movie - a couple of hundred quid will get you up and running.....FFS...

I for one don't think it easy and can see that JP is extremely talented but I still don't like his works or that of any other abstract artist.

...good stuff velasquez.

...believe it or not I have dabbled myself.......though certainly not confident enough to post it up!!!!!

Here's my favourite Pollock.   It's FIVE metres long.   That dripping took a lot of space.

http://www.tate.org.uk/art/artworks/pollock-summertime-number-9a-t03977

Do you know how much that sold for bb?

...his stuff is quite amazing......seems random......but at the same time the patterns seem to repeat which gives the whole thing a rhythm and pleases the eye.

The best abstracts I've seen, Aka, are the big Gerhard Richter swipe paintings where he laid swathes of oil paint on the canvas, then dragged a huge wooden "swiper" across it to create a blurred or "speed" effect where the colours run into each other. Literally, a billion Euro idea...

Best Scottish abstract painter is probably Barbara Rae.

Akabula.  I dont know why but from previous debates, I had you down as a child of the sixties. Am I wrong?

Akabula - Re Summertime 9a.  No idea how much it fetched but I bet at todays values it was an absolute bargain in 1988.

nb - Do you like Bridget Riley?

Well I remember the 60s for having a great time as a teen if that's what you mean.
As regards BR again I can see the talent but in truth it hurts my eyes.

I much prefer something I can understand and reflects a time in history.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlEMQBoFiYo

gerhard richter painting euromaxx

With big swiper hingmy...

Thanks Akabula, I wasn't far out then. I'd have BR as reflecting a time in history but who do you like.  Hockney?

Nobody in particular to be honest. When I worked in Glasgow I was at the Kelvingrove a couple of times a week.
Not just for the paintings although I probably spent more time on them than anything else.
Christ of St of the Cross was right up my street for instance not that I could see it ever hanging in my house.

Aka - how can a Gers fan like a Tim painting??

I once picked up a hottie at George Square - she asked me for directions to see that Dali painting...we took the bus to the Kelvingrove but I forgot the painting had been moved to the religious museum...turned out she was a Poor Clare nun - first time she'd left the convent in ten years...anyway, we had to settle for Rembrandt and an iced bun in the tea room...

Hey Aka - I just want to say, like, fur the record, like, that Kaffliks are much better painters than Proddies...

You've a helluva fixation with religion Vel. Seems to be a Glasgow thing where it's the weapon of choice rather than a belief.

PICASSO

GOYA
VELAZQUEZ
TITIAN
RENOIR

MONET
MANET
CARAVAGGIO
RAPHAEL

MICHELANGELO
VERMEER
---------------------

KAFFLIK XI......4-4-2...

Hey, Scottish guys have won Turner Prizes for less than this!

Very good

There you are - see, Egner is a proper artist who is willing to broaden his horizons.

Egner, would you like to PURCHASE this progressive text-based work (TITLE : KAFFLIK XI) for ONE BIT COIN? Failing that, I'll accept two bags of chocolate coins from Poundland. Get in at the bottom, mate, as the actress said to the bishop.

It's showing at the White Cube Gallery in the Autumn, along with HANNE DARBOVEN'S "Larsson or Laudrup ; Who Was the Better Painter?" Watch this space!

Good night Egner. As you probably know, great works of art often meet with derision - and indeed, can cause consternation and downright ANGER, EGNER...however...we...we brave few must set our faces like flint as we battle the ignorance of the common herd...until the day dawns when our avant-garde masterpieces are selling for vast heaps of mazoola.

The real fakes are the modern Artists since picasso. Picasso once described his art as crap so I'll take his word for it.

Maczysz Dzieduszycki was a favourite artist of mine.

His 'Study In Plarkotex' was something to behold.

Here's the famous MD commenting on traffic on Putney Bridge, 9 years ago.

.
http://putneysw15.com/default.asp?section=community&app=forum/ShowMessage.asp?ID=229966

Perhaps they should all be shot??

But would only lead to a rise in prices!!!

Velasquez  • July 20, 2015 12:35 AM BST 

There you are - see, Egner is a proper artist who is willing to broaden his horizons.
Egner, would you like to PURCHASE this progressive text-based work (TITLE : KAFFLIK XI) for ONE BIT COIN? Failing that, I'll accept two bags of chocolate coins from Poundland. Get in at the bottom, mate, as the actress said to the bishop.

It's showing at the White Cube Gallery in the Autumn, along with HANNE DARBOVEN'S "Larsson or Laudrup ; Who Was the Better Painter?" Watch this space!


good stuff Velasquez....

.....KAFFLIK XI for around 180 quid then Vel.....tempting.... as artist or buyer being ahead of your time will always come at a cost of course....

.....however if I purchased your "progressive text-based work" then I suspect you may have to wait a few lifetimes in the future to cash in on future creations with your new found artistic fame.

You see I am not a heavyweight in the world of arts patronage....and it seems to me that in the arts.... patronage is quite important...some would say all all.....after all...

..who decides if art is good...or even great.....the Artist??...the Artists Patron???...or the Buyer????

..can there ever be an objective measure???????

...so although I may lose out...I am going to do the decent thing...and refer you to a certain Mr Saatchi.....who may be able to catapult your fledging career into the stratosphere.

...oh...and might I add just a small criticism to your beautifully constructed avant-garde creation Velasquez.....

...I am sure it is a work in progress....but you have neglected to put the cherry on top of the cake....

...namely every good KAFFLIK XI needs a manager.....I am sure you were getting round to it....artists cannot be rushed I know.....

...but may I make a suggestion.....as Neil Lennon is currently preoccupied how about Mr Leonardo Da Vinci......

...yes yes I know he was only a KAFFLIK in name but you have some quite headstrong characters in your selection....and when discussions on tactics and future directions of the project come up he may be able to be the voice of reason........

...and from the point of marketing your piece may prove a slice of genius!!

yor  a bit light on  creativity in the middle of the park vele ...as usual strugglin to field X1 tims ...

Team could be in trouble if Picasso pulls a hammy in the warm up... Toulouse-Lautrec is the reserve goalie.

....saw Agnes Martin mentioned in Times Culture......hadn't heard of her.....

.....love stuff like this....understated.......subtle.......very nice....

http://www.tate.org.uk/search/Agnes%20Martin

At the risk of living up to Aka's appraisal , Agnes Martin is Sister Wendy's fave artist.

Egner - Are you going to the Exhibition at Tate Modern?.  Thoroughly recommended?

It's tempting blackbarn....on till 11 October .........

.....her stuff looks lovely........even better in the flesh I suspect.

Definitely Egner, and well worth a visit.  Some of it is so subtle, the gold flakes one is.......well I won't spoil it. What was amazing was the sheer number of people and the age range.  I have been a fan for a while and thought this'll be limited appeal - What tf do I know!

.....now you have sold me blackbarn......not that I needed much selling

...I will look forward to it......

.....one time when spending an hour skimming through a Sunday supplement turns into something worthwhile.

...how I had never heard of her before is beyond me.

..I will report back when I have been.

Good stuff egner. You'll enjoy it I'm sure.

This is really rather good, what started as a semi-humorous reactionary diatribe against modern art is turning into something quite different

.....Vubiant's master plan all along I'm sure.....

...BBC4 1030 "What do artists do all day?"

..have enjoyed a few of these......especially the photographers and an amazing guy who used a kind of etching process ...........

..this one on artist Derek Boshier.......whose stuff...for me personally.....would be edging toward the "scammery" section....

..will still watch though...see what its all about.

Putting the Dutchman VERMEER in a KAFFLIK XI is artistic scammery of the first order.
Like the Irishman and England Captain Eoin Morgan, he played for both sides.
Perhaps he should be substituted at half time for the staunchly KAFFLIK Edgar Degas who once fired a model for being a Protestant.

Mo Johnston??!

Scored a lot of goals but can he paint?

He couldn't paint but he could get you a few gallons of Dulux vinyl silk magnolia cheap...plus a nice trackie to wear while you're painting the hall...

Dulux vinyl silk magnolia eh. Now you're talking!

Have to say Dulux ain't what it used to be IMO - some of those trade paints in diy stores are far superior...like Glidden. S'ppose you only get what you pay for.

Did you know there are at least 3 genuine Mona Lisa's out there that have been painted using Dulux vinyl silk?

Two are owned by Russians and the other is in the Louvre.

Just googled Derek Boshier - looks like total vom - not my idea of Pop Art at all. The best Pop Art is very clinical and "cold" - reductive - that Derek Boshier stuff is just too personal, witless and eccentric, like English folk art or something.

I want to know how pop art changed the world so I will watch the programme.

Can answer NOW

In Fine Art, you had writers who determined what was good and bad TASTE, like Baudelaire, Berenson, Gombrich, William Morris, Adorno, Greenberg, etc.....

Pop Art short circuited all that and destroyed the barrier between "low" art and "high" art...it was the triumph of the BANAL...by destroying this barrier it also destroyed or reduced the category of the "sublime." So there was no longer...00000...ribbit!!....

But is it Art?

Well what I mean to say is that MARCEL DUCHAMP is the key artist in Pop Art and Modern Art (NOT Picasso or Van Gogh or whoever)...and with Pop Art there is an invasion of popular art into the "high temples" of art...comics, Elvis, soup tins and OMO boxes, etc...all grist to the feckin' mill.

What is Art? As Warhol said, Art is only high class junk. Our present art is only reflecting the sh1tty nature of our culture and society as it is...anything goes...if you can get away with it...

I heard a conspiracy theory that the "Fountain" idea was stolen from a woman Now that really is taking the ...mickey. (probably perpetrated by feminists).

"...it was the triumph of the BANAL"

well said Velasquez.

Michelangelo, Raphael and so on were aiming to express the Eternal Verities and Idealistic Forms, but that is all gone now or actively discouraged. The latest "avant-garde" trend is all that matters now, and charlatans just create stuff that can be traded by billionaires.

A good definition Velasquez, I shall plagiarise that one day soon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Painted_Word

By Tom Wolfe...probably the best explanation of modern art.

Another thing about Pop Art was that it was a reaction against Abstract Expressionism, which was dominating American art at that time.

Ok, you utter shower ...I am off to the kitchen now to create a sculpture out of scouring sponges and TUC savoury biscuits...good night...if only you reprobates understood TROO ART!!

Dawn Run and Buck House stood together, posing, a life size sculpture made using only sponge scourers, TUC savoury biscuits and empty whelk shells...all held together with natural yoghurt and UHU glue bought from Poundland...

A good article but not one to fill anyone with joy. Only 9 minutes to go, good luck with the sculpture.

I'm recording this and watching the Scientology / Jehovah's Witness prog...

I'm watching this and recording the scientology/JH

....looking at Boshier's stuff before the programme somehow I thought he would be an unsympathetic....cold....harsh character.......

...in fact he came across as anything but......full of soul and compassion and interest in the world...an interesting bloke....

.......seemed to be a bit of a disconnect between the guys persona and the art he produces.......

.....his art is not not my cup of tea but enjoyed watching for half an hour.

The pop art was one of those programmes where you keep watching because you think the good stuff will be along in a minute but is ultimately disappointing.

Boshier was much better but his art is cold especially the cartoony black and white pictures he was working on.
His house is a shambolic nightmare and could do with a good declutter and clean especially the windows! No sign of a woman's touch there. Interesting to see his way of life as an eccentric Brit abroad.

while there is indeed a German word ART it means something else.
The German for 'art'is ,er, KUNST.. Not entirely inappropriate.

Ha,Ha,Ha,Ha,Ha,Ha,Ha,Ha,.....
Spent some time with Billy Mumford "A forger who created up to 1,000 bogus paintings"..
Christ he could tell some stories about his paintings ;o)

...an inspirational piece of thread creation Vubiant......

...this one can run and run....yep.

I can't adequately express the sense of thrillment I feel that a humble thread of mine has clocked up 130+ posts
-a personal record by some distance.
Not only that but the uniformly high quality of the posts is also a source of immense satisfaction.
What a pleasure to observe some of the intellectual heavy hitters engaging in the debate and to see genuine aficionados of the visual arts displaying their erudite insights to help enlighten us mere mortals.

.......subtle self deprecation with a hint of sarcastic observation and  a soupcon of downright contempt for the arts intelligentsia.........

........another masterpiece Vubiant.......

...you are on an artistic roll......whether you like it or not..

Even the Mash is getting in on the act

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/arts-entertainment/leicester-named-2016-city-of-no-culture-20150828101561

Wouldn't mind a slice of that artistic roll, I love ice cream.