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11 Oct 13
14:40
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21 May 10
Anyone got a copy of "Tesio In His Own Words" by Federico Tesio?
On ebay for £168; cheapest on Amazon about £270
On ebay for £168; cheapest on Amazon about £270
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Can anyone recommend anything else worth reading on this subject?
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no but i have a copy of fly fishing by JR Hartley
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not fishing
A lot of nonsense is written and spoken about this subject - genuinely after some recommendations. Also, just a heads-up about the Tesio book |
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I have it but I'm not selling. I have about 600 books on thoroughbred horse breeding. stud books, form books, and analysis type books.
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kinscem - in other words the Tesio book is a "must read"?
Any other recommendations? I'm interested in the theorey behind if or why some bloodlines might work well and others wouldn't, if that makes sense? |
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Tesio In His Own Words by Federico Tesio. The Russell Meerdink Company, Ltd. 2005
The book is an English translation of PureBlood: An Animal Of Experimentation written in 1947. Translation by Maria Burnett, Buffalo, NY. Chapters Foreword Preface 1) The problem with sex 2) The racehorse's sight 3) The sixth sense 4) New observations on the transmission of traits in reproduction 5) Freedom from atavism 6) Athletes 7) Laudatores temporis acti "in praise of times past" 8) The law of changeable maxims 9) The law of similar but not identical 10) The horse's intelligence 11) the brain and the soul |
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Tesio discusses many things in his books. If you are looking for the secret you might not find it here.
Examples of headings within the chapters: Julius Caesar; artificial insemination; the Egyptian papyrus; the racehorse's sight: 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th expirement; horses and barbed wire; maternal love; the formation of the herd; mendelism; parenthetical explanation regarding the origin of the color (?) of a thoroughbred's coat (30+ pages discussion); the appearance of man on the earth; the problem with socks; white hair on pink skin; the law of occupation; the selection; the thoroughbred athlete; reproduction of steeplechasers; sprinters and stayers (stats on average winning distance 1936, 1939); list of derby winners; list of oaks winners; the horse's intelligence, 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th 10th 11th 12th observations. the soul; memory, reasoning, and free will; dreams, stimulants, and madness; the spoken and the written word; art; laughter; the why limit; game playing; knowledge of life and death; instinct. You can see from the above that Tesio was a man with many ideas, and asked many questions. He was interested in astronomy, and inheritance. I do not want to give my ideas on the forum, but if you e-mail me at my user name at eircom.net I might make some comments. |
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Thanks kinscem.
I'm not expecting to find the Holy Grail. I'm interested in the factors that influence a breeder in the choice of matching a stallion to a mare. I'll email you shortly |
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Long, confusing, rambling e-mail reply sent.
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For anyone interested in the "Rasmussen Factor" the definitive book is called "Inbreeding to superior females" by Rommy Faversham and Leon Rasmussen.
It was published by The Australian Bloodhorse Review so anyone wishing to source a copy may have to try Australian sites. |
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Books
Thoroughbred Pedigrees Simplified, by Miles Napier (short, British, and get the updated version) Racehorse Breeding Theories,edited by Frank J. Mitchell (long, American) Magazines James Underwood's Digest (weekly) Thoroughbred Owner & Breeder (monthly) Free (for some values of free) Or just read the breeding columns in the Racing Post and/or Irish Field. And pop in occasionally to Betfair's Bloodstock & Breeding forum. Prejudice Note that almost all material is about Flat breeding. The jumps mob choose which stallions to service their mares on the basis of friendship, location and price in that order, so far as I can tell, although I dare say I'm doing a disservice to one or two more rational jumps breeders. |
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Book
Thoroughbred Breeding: Pedigree Theories and the Science of Genetics, by Matthew Binns (Just realised I don't own this one.) |
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Thank you kincsem, dogform and Ramruma
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... While Flat breeders choose their stallions on the basis the biggest adverts in the Post, because they will be the ones best supported at the yearling sales. Who cares if the offspring stays 4f and races with its nostril pointing at the sky? They're trying to breed a saleable commodity, not a racehorse.
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Why not try to figure out the pedigrees of cheap horses made good...Treve, Snow Fairy, Chichicastenango
 , Tony Bin, Brigadier Gerard, etc...or go out during a storm and try to catch lightning in a jar... |
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I have the Frank Mitchell and Rasmussen books. I just can't find them.
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I have a copy of The Tesio Myth. Quite a good read.
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Do you think it's actually worth studying pedigrees? It can be quite helpful for punters but there are always plenty of exceptions. Wasn't Red Rum sprint-bred? And Dr. Devious shouldn't really have stayed the Derby trip blah blah.
You hear plenty of stories like, "We couldn't get stallion A so we went with stallion B..." Or : the mare fell in love with that stallion, so we decided that..." etc. It's like casting films where they go, "Bing Crosby was our first choice as Columbo - Peter Falk was our fourth choice." Tesio, from a strictly "scientific" point of view, seems to have had some strange beliefs ; those are some very strange, esoteric chapter headings there! One of the best breeding tales I've read about is the rivalry between Easy Goer and Sunday Silence - and the Hancock brothers. The prejudice against Sunday Silence defied belief. Logic went out the window. |
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Velasquez
13 Oct 13 12:57 Joined: 30 Aug 02 | Topic/replies: 4,903 | Blogger: Velasquez's blog Do you think it's actually worth studying pedigrees? It can be quite helpful for punters but there are always plenty of exceptions. Wasn't Red Rum sprint-bred? And Dr. Devious shouldn't really have stayed the Derby trip blah blah. The short answer, imo, is yes. As the examples you cite show, it's not an exact science but isn't that true of all aspects of racing? |
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Yes
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It's my intention to keep contributing to this thread but I'd hate the give the impression that I know what I'm talking about.
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 I suspect I know less than most. Regardless of how helpful the study of breeding is in the context of betting, it's a fascinating subject in its own right |
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"...TO give..." ffs!
Anyway, some years ago I was waylaid by a storm and I had to take shelter in a bookshop. Since I had an hour to kill, I made my way to the racing section and I read a few chapters by Tesio. He discussed the markings on thoroughbred horses and whether they told us - in some readable way - about the horses' temperaments. He also told a story about a stallion that was shy and it refused to mate with a proper blue-blood mare. Tesio left some "redundant" old mare (covered in mud) in a field and he noticed that the stallion mated with her enthusiastically. If I remember correctly, Tesio then covered the valuable mare with mud and... bingo! The problem was solved. Tesio went on to offer an explicit explanation : the young stallion was thinking, "Cor...this one's too good for me - she's way out of my league!" And these are horses! And this is what horses are thinking! |
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BTW, when I say Tesio "covered" the mare...I don't mean he COVERED her!!
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In conclusion, I'd like to say : Do you realize what this means?? It means that horses are not machines - they are people! Yes, horses are PEOPLE!!
 And Soylent Green is PEOPLE!! |
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It`s undoubtedly a fascinating subject nick.
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Velasquez 12 Oct 13 18:33
Why not try to figure out the pedigrees of cheap horses made good...Treve, Snow Fairy, Chichicastenango Silly, Tony Bin, Brigadier Gerard, etc...or go out during a storm and try to catch lightning in a jar... hardly fair to include Treve & Snow Fairy as they were both vendor buy backs. however, they were there to be sold so it'd be interesting to know what their reserves were. |
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Treve is quite well-bred, and her third dam is half-sister to Triptych. Perhaps the clue we all missed was last autumn's move of Treve's sire, Motivator, to the Head family's Quesnay stud. Motivator was never very popular when he stood in this country. Was Treve cheap? Unsold at 22,000 Euros, then sold for 8 million Euros after her French Oaks win.
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Hey, where I come from, if yer can't flog it for fifty thousand bucks, it's CHEAP!
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The Rasmussen book is avialable on Amazon for $500; ebay $900
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