Irish riots

Very stupid too. Worst time to riot is during winter time when ski masks are at their highest price.

Many a true word said in jest Crisp.

Dunno about ski-masks but I think a bloody great freeze / snow would have 99% of these herberts scuttling for home.

more trouble that can be put down to the made up beardy bloke in the clouds

Jan 9, 2013 -- 2:55PM, Shaky wrote:

more trouble that can be put down to the made up beardy bloke in the clouds

Kenny Everett doing his in the best possible taste routine?

As always there is a solution

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Always available for riots, never available for work.

I ignored this nonsense for as long as possible, now its tedium is finally grabbing my attention.

So what was the purpose of taking the flag down on certain days anyway?
They saving the minimum wage of the person employed to pull the string or what?

I'm surprised at all your cynicism. Can tell ya that if they stopped flying Y Ddraig Goch in Wales to only show the Union Jack - there'd be a much similar response.
Wreckless of the council to ignore the views of Avast swathe of the commun1cants.

Northern Irish riots which sort of shows the naivity of many when they don't understand the problem.

All Unionism have seen is Sinn Fein get their own way. If an Orange march is 2 miles away then there's 5,000 of them out protesting at 6am. They've had Orange marches re-routed, every death at the hands of soldiers made into an inquiry (and then riot when it doesn't go their way), allowed to name children's playgrounds after murderers and basically got everything what they wanted and yet gave nothing in return. There's been no inquiries to the deaths at anyone at the hands of the IRA.

This flag protest was the tipping point that Unionism had to draw a line.

They've also attracted those with more sinister reasons. There are many with itchy trigger fingers that would love to bring the guns back onto the streets because they hate the other side so much. Some of the protests are held on interface areas just to antagonise the other side. As the Orange marches prove, it doesn't take much to annoy them.

The trouble on Saturday was caused by Nationalists but that wasn't reported (much) from the media. 2 units of police were sent in to the Nationalist area while 20 units of police with dogs and water cannons battered the protesters.

Look at things from the Unionists side and you will see everything British trying to be whittled away by Sinn Fein, a police force and government that tries to appease the Nationalists, a media that gives unfair reporting and you'll maybe understand things a bit better.

I live pretty close to these riots, I've never participated in any protest or riot but I do understand why they are angry. While I feel they have a point, it won't bring the flag back, the best way to make the point is by voting the party that caused this (Alliance) out of existence. It's causing nothing but more trouble. It's also costing millions to police as well as damage to tourism, businesses, jobs and infrastructure.

I fear however this will escalate

Ovalman

I'm guessing you've lived in Ulster all your life so can you tell me if you've noticed a general across-the-board rise in prosperity since the initiation of the Good Friday agreement?

I know it's hard to generalise and 'the poor will always be with us' but I'm just interested to see the whether there is, and the extent of, any peace dividend, from somone on the ground in the Province.

u aint seen nothing yet,wait until the demo on saturday in dublin
ffs

ye big dividing peace walls,the ignorance on northern ireland is shocking imo

100% more prosperity since the Good Friday Agreement, this isn't about prosperity, this is about seeing your identity whittled away.

City Hall should invest in a new flag. The Union flag on one side and blank on the other. Then the idiots from both sides can see whatever they want to see.

A march in Dublin on Saturday what is that about? Hypccrisy in the highest order as they have no trouble burning the tricolor on their bonfires.

Northern Irish riots which sort of shows the naivity of many when they don't understand the problem.

All Unionism have seen is Sinn Fein get their own way. If an Orange march is 2 miles away then there's 5,000 of them out protesting at 6am. They've had Orange marches re-routed, every death at the hands of soldiers made into an inquiry (and then riot when it doesn't go their way), allowed to name children's playgrounds after murderers and basically got everything what they wanted and yet gave nothing in return. There's been no inquiries to the deaths at anyone at the hands of the IRA.

This flag protest was the tipping point that Unionism had to draw a line.

They've also attracted those with more sinister reasons. There are many with itchy trigger fingers that would love to bring the guns back onto the streets because they hate the other side so much. Some of the protests are held on interface areas just to antagonise the other side. As the Orange marches prove, it doesn't take much to annoy them.

The trouble on Saturday was caused by Nationalists but that wasn't reported (much) from the media. 2 units of police were sent in to the Nationalist area while 20 units of police with dogs and water cannons battered the protesters.

Look at things from the Unionists side and you will see everything British trying to be whittled away by Sinn Fein, a police force and government that tries to appease the Nationalists, a media that gives unfair reporting and you'll maybe understand things a bit better.

I live pretty close to these riots, I've never participated in any protest or riot but I do understand why they are angry. While I feel they have a point, it won't bring the flag back, the best way to make the point is by voting the party that caused this (Alliance) out of existence. It's causing nothing but more trouble. It's also costing millions to police as well as damage to tourism, businesses, jobs and infrastructure.

biggest load of bullcrap i have ever read, its like the flag has been replaced by the tricolour, this was a democratic decision by the council witch included unionists but as usual the unionist screamed there would be trouble and guess what trouble follows... some things/bigots never change.

some would say if they want that flag,move home

You either want peace or you do not want peace, rioting over a flag tells me all I need to know. We  all laughed at muslims rioting over cartoons and now we see Irish/British causing havoc over a flag ffs Time to grow up and move on, the majority of people in mainland Britain do not give a **** about Northern Ireland except that it is costing them plenty of money to maintain....

yes but its the uk's and they love that,total mess imo

Ovalman.
Joined: 29 Nov 02
Replies: 10769 09 Jan 13 16:57   
100% more prosperity since the Good Friday Agreement, this isn't about prosperity, this is about seeing your identity whittled away. 

No, I understand that but as a patronised mainlander, I'm just interested in understanding what's at stake here.

Should the thread title not be "British Riots"

Hopefully the gardai are polishing there batons for the weekend.

Its cancelled/postponed.

First of all the decision to only fly the union jack on designated days was made to bring Belfast council into line with nearly all other councils and this decision was done by a democratic vote. Why should Belfast be any different to the many other councils in the north of ireland let alone england, scotland and wales. Councils with a nationalist majority have been happy to respect the culture of the unionst people by seeing the union jack flying on their council buildings for many years.

You would have to ask a unionist what the problem is. I can only guess they see Belfast city hall as a symbolic bastion of unionism. The problem is the same thing with orange marches in that unionist dont the roads as they used to and dont own city hall in belfast any longer either.

I haven't displayed my union jack since JJB Sports went out of business.

intresting thread.can i ask oval man one question.the union jack inflames half the population.the other half(roughly)want it flown.why should one side get their way or not,as the case may be.im a moderate living in the south and all i can see here is the beautiful city of belfast being decimated and knocked back 20yr.im sure its costing traders millions.cop on the lot of you
,

These demonstrations are not just about a flag, it's a very real sense of everything British being wiped out. It's also a sense that Nationalists have got everything they've asked for while give nothing in return.

Yes it's very stupid wrecking the place but Unionism has a habit of shooting itself in the foot on matters like this. These protests are also organised on Facebook and are almost impossible to stop because there is no single person in charge but they are also being hijacked by people with their own agenda either for terrorism or because their heads still stuck in 1690.

I was angered by the flag removal but it was a democratic decision. By all means protest but I think they've made the point for long enough. It's costing our country hundreds of millions and is becoming counter productive when those on the mainland see us smash the place up and them having to pay for it.

Ovalman im glad to see that you have backtracked on this issue.....because every point you made was factually incorrect but you are right it is not just about a flag..the flag is actually being used as a convenience for loyalist mobs to do what they do best....the underlying problem here is that the majority of people who are out menacing our streets are not protesting about the union flag but infact they are protesting against catholics having equality in the 6 counties of ireland,for years the councils were dominated by unionist dragons who were hell bent on discriminating against the catholic communities,the problem now lies in that nationalist/republican through purely democratic means are elected and chairing councils throughout the 6 counties and making decisions for the benefit of both communities......the old chestnut comes to the fore again...unionists get noting....sinn fein get everything......boooohooooo.....poor us.....we are not allowed to fly our flag.....we are not allowed to march triumphantly through nationalist housing estates.....we are not allowed to play the sash outside a catholic church.....well i have news for ye ovalman....we are living in 2013 and the days of unionist domination and discrimination are over and the bully boy tactics being shown in belfast are showing the culprits up for what they are.....and now we have the ultra bigot from south armagh heading to dublin hell bent on causing another riot....if this is the man the unionist people choose to speak on their behalf then i would seriously worry will unionism ever rise out of the dark days and embrace equality and power sharing....

This isn't about equality, it's about the Nationalist agenda to wipe out everything unionism stands for. Unionism has stood up this time, it was bound to happen because after the flags it would be something else, then something else, then something else.

I really don't want to get into a slanging match, I'm just saying as I see it from the Unionists side.

I actually agree with you Ovalman
it is a vey deep problem with no easy solution

what exactly does unionism stand for please oval?briefly?

5billion a year subsidy from London.

Jan 9, 2013 -- 8:40PM, Irish_Celtic wrote:

Hopefully the gardai are polishing there batons for the weekend.

well said

"well said" ? - completely dumb actually, only said as a wind-up I presume (hope)........but as I said, cancelled anyway.

In a nutshell the contributions from our friends across the water on this thread explains the problem perfectly. Both sides think they have the monopoly on grievance both historical and current day. What an absolute shower.

Unionism, sometimes called loyalism, means wanting union with the United Kingdom, with the Queen as figurative head of state, and laws, tax and benefit rates set in London, and 18 MPs there ( who occasionally are sufficient to affect policy UK-wide depending on other factors such as the Con-Lab-LD split )

Republicanism, sometimes called nationalism, means rejecting the Queen as Head of State and wanting to be part of the island of Ireland as a whole. Republicans also seem to want segregated education systems for the 2 communities which doesn't seem to help. And the UK government in Westminster seems happy to pay for this.

At one time Ireland was a theocracy, where divorce was outlawed, and had much lower GDP per head than the UK, and people made jokes.
Now, it's very different, and the Irish make jokes about the UK letting women retire before they are 62, and our excessive spending on war.

Some people bring transubstantiation into it, and rejection of the Pope, but it's hard to be sure if they are really important deep down where it counts. But what does seem to matter is that there are 8 unionist MPs and notionally 8 nationalist MPs and 2 fence-sitters, and a small shift in voting patterns at the next election could mean that there is a mandate either for the whole province to leave the Union or for the counties of Fermanagh, Derry and Tyrone certainly.

Longer term, the demographics suggest that in a couple of decades the Republicans will outnumber the Unionists in the 18+ age group who have the vote, but there is also an increasing number of people who favour neither one cause or the other ( hence the 2 fence-sitters mentioned above ).

Abortion remains forbidden for practical purposes in all parts of the island of Ireland. Soft drug use and prostitution are also generally frowned upon, whereas in parts of mainland UK, they are almost compulsory, smiles. Not a place for the liberal, but the place is changing quickly.

good stuff bongo....

agree Bongo

But how do you take away a peoples identity though..how would we like like it, if from tomorrow we were part of France
so we we are now French..so we have to live with it
The Loyalsists do not see themselves as part of the Irish republic...which I am afraid is what they are tbh

The only thing that can be done at the moment is to try and ensure peace..

If the Union Jack is put back...will the catholics riot
very delicate situation

please help sammy,a young loyalist from the lower newtownards road.....on an average day just to retain his cultural identity,sammy is forced to block roads,cause mayhem,riot,and wear a rangers scarf over his mouth...text FLEG to 1690 and help poor wee sammy to go and get a life

ebel the union jack has not gone away it will fly at belfast city hall on certain days of the year as per other city councils in the same uk that these people so desperately want to remain part of......the decision to bring belfast city council into line with the rest of these councils was democratically voted for by a council which has republican/unionist/nationalist/alliance members in it.....believe me when i tell you that the flag is only a cover of convenience for these people who quite simply do not want to share a future with catholics....its as simple as that.......

But how do you take away a peoples identity though..how would we like like it, if from tomorrow we were part of France
so we we are now French..so we have to live with it

Its called democracy, there was a vote. should it be minority rule?

Simple answer to the problem.

Eire rejoin the Union - let's face it we are all in the EUSSR any way.

Northern Ireland would cease to exist over night.

Everyone's a winner baby.

I've unfortunately no real answer for you ebulGery, I was just having a crack about answering richters question.

Your comparison to being informed we were part of France is interesting in itself as from 1066 onwards England was. If you'd been told in 1065 that was what was going to happen you'd have gone mental and joined the garrison near Hastings to get stuck in to the foreigner. Fourty years later, you'd have spoken differently probably.

It would be nice to see the dismantling of the segregated education system, but it isn't going to happen. What could happen though is that the number of MPs who are 'fence-sitters' could increase, ( there's 1 Alliance and 1 Indy at the moment ) so it will become even harder for any Party to claim they speak for NI. Time will tell.

Anyway, here's a lame joke: What does a 63 year old Englishwoman have on her answering machine? Answer: nobody knows, she always picks up the 'phone. ( Already retired )

A united Ireland under the Union flag

As long as the majority of people in Northern Ireland want to remain part of the U.K.
then is it not fair that this is the way it should stay
otherwise we are betraying them

The Loyalists see the removal of the flag as a sign we are deserting them...
it is not just a flag to them..it is what it represents

If the demographic of N.Ireland changes so catholics predominate I am still not sure loyalists
would accept that N.Ireland must revert to the republic of Ireland...but at least it would be fair then

The loyalists are trapped by history..

The loyalist mps may have voted for the flag to go...the loyalist population do not seem to agree

Bongo

Ebulgery,

The question is now why is Eire not rejoining the Union?

something like what is happening in the inner cities of england!!??

Irish are Celts like Welsh and Jocks

Ovalman when you talk about unionism losing some of their traditions and ways of life its because unionism started off in such a position of superiority due to decades of inequality towards nationalists. 
Its not a case of taking away peoples Britishness but fairness and equality.
White South Africa had to change and so should we. Would you think it right that government buildings in south africa retained nearly 100% of its white past in the same way Belfast city Hall is adorned from head to toe in unionist paraphernalia despite the city have an almost equal division on unionists and nationalists.

Ovalman. 10 Jan 13 19:31 
... It's also a sense that Nationalists have got everything they've asked for while give nothing in return.


Seeing as most Nationalists are asking for a united, 32-county Ireland, I`d say they have received virtually nothing, politically. What the Unionists have been forced into conceding is nothing more than basic human rights, which were denied to all Catholics until far too recently.

Republicans also seem to want segregated education systems for the 2 communities which doesn't seem to help. And the UK government in Westminster seems happy to pay for this.

Segregated education is normal in Scotland. Absolutely stupid imo, and a waste of money too.

see they were attacking catholic houses last night

Irish are Celts like Welsh and Jocks


Correct Fred, but so are the English. According to a C4 prog a couple of years back, 80% of English people still have Celtic DNA, in spite of Normans, Angles, Saxons etc.

Jan 13, 2013 -- 10:01PM, brendanuk1 wrote:

see they were attacking catholic houses last night

bunch of c u n t s