Chit Chat
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
First they keep referring to a shooting of a black man by a white man. Pretty sure George Zimmerman is Latino.
Second no one in the media seems to mention that "Zimmerman back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass, as if he had been laying on his back on the ground. Zimmerman was also bleeding from his nose and the back of his head"
http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin%20Lakes%20Shooting%20Initial%20Report.pdf
Lets not bring in any facts that might spoil the news agenda of the story?
Second no one in the media seems to mention that "Zimmerman back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass, as if he had been laying on his back on the ground. Zimmerman was also bleeding from his nose and the back of his head"
http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin%20Lakes%20Shooting%20Initial%20Report.pdf
Lets not bring in any facts that might spoil the news agenda of the story?
sort by:
Show
per page
Replies: 257
|
By:
Certainly the police ,upon seeing him, and taking his name, may see him as White, which is maybe significant in how they handled this. He maybe 'self identified' as Latino (or he maybe just started doing this now for obvious reasons) .
I've read a lot about this, and hadn't heard Zimmerman was injured . If Martin hit Zimmerman then given the other facts of the case that is understandable, and he should have hit him harder . Though of course injuries could have been self inflicted when he realized how bad the situation was going to look to anyone not racist. For those who don't know.... Zimmerman lives in a gated community in Florida .He was active in a neighbourhood watch scheme . Sitting in his car he sees Martin, a 17 yo black guy visiting relatives there, walking around (apparently he was returning from a shop) . Zimmerman decides he 'looks real suspicous', phones the police .Cops tell Zimmerman to stay where he is and they'll check it out .Zimmerman doesn't stay where he is , he gets out of the car and follows Martin, and eventually shoots him dead .Martin is found to be unarmed and have no criminal record whatsoever (unlike Zimmerman). Sounds like a pretty clear cut case of Murder or at best Manslaughter . But Florida has this 'Stand Your Ground' Law , whereby anyone who feels in imminent danger of serious injury has the right to use deadly force . Zimmerman cited this and the cops just said ok, fine .No arrest,no further investigation, case closed, free to go. The Law was intended for people who, while minding their own business, were attacked by criminals, so it seems absurd that a guy following and harassing someone who'd done him no harm can cite it in his defence. Massive outcry in the USA, but the police chief just says whats all the fuss. |
|
By:
sounds like zimmer had a gun which he wanted to use---used neighbourhood watch as an excuse----its murder not manslaughter
|
|
By:
Lets all ignore the police report that Zimmerman was bleeding and looked like he had been knocked to the ground.
read it here http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin%20Lakes%20Shooting%20Initial%20Report.pdf |
|
By:
Why shouldn't he be knocked to the ground
 |
|
By:
What on earth is a black man doing in a gated community? theyre gated for a reason
|
|
By:
More evidence that Zimmerman was acting in self defense!
: John said he locked his patio door, ran upstairs and heard at least one gun shot. "And then, when I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point." Read more: http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/seminole_news/022712-man-shot-and-killed-in-neighborhood-altercation#ixzz1pxPkMrhj |
|
By:
That isn't evidence for Zimmerman acting in self defence though. It doesn't make clear the circumstances under which they ended up fighting, especially when Zimmerman was explicitly told to leave the situation alone- why was he anywhere near him? Zimmerman sustaining any injury could be a consequence of an attack he himself initiated, it could have been the kid acting in self defence when some lunatic with a gun jumped him...
|
|
By:
Your suggesting it could have happened like:
Zimemerman attacked Trayvon with his fists. Trayvon defended himself and started beating Zimmerman up. Then Zimmerman shot him? That is a possibility. But I think it more likely Trayvon confronted Zimmerman who was following him. Decided to beat him up. They both ended up on the floor, with Trayvon on top (as per the witness statement). Then Zimmerman shot him to stop getting beaten up more. Zimmerman was told by the 911 operator not to follow Trayvon. It is not the same as the police telling him not to follow. You do not have to listen to a 911 operator. |
|
By:
Maybe you don't have to listen to a 911 operator, but it's the most competent and qualified advice you are going to get in this scenario. It's not like you can get a hotline to the police, and if you could it's pretty certain they would advise the same.
If he'd followed that advice the kid wouldn't be dead. |
|
By:
I don't know what happened, I would suggest however that given the confusion and information that has emerged Zimmerman seems lucky to have been able to continue without sustained investigation.
I would question what danger Zimmerman was ever in during the situation. If I'm in a car or indoors with a gun in my possession, I'm safe, no-one is posing me imminent danger and the only time I am legitimately 'standing my ground' is if that car or house is encroached. My, albeit limited understanding of that law, is that actively provoking a 'standing my ground' situation invalidates that defence or justification for obvious reasons, namely everyone would try and do it to get rid of people they want to bump off! |
|
By:
if it's anything like in this country the 911 operator would have been a police officer... I don't know if it's the same there though
|
|
By:
The point is Zimmerman found himself on the ground with Trayvon on top of him and beating him (as per witness statement)
In that position, does he have the right to use a gun with lethal force? |
|
By:
If he orchestrated those circumstances, for me, no, he doesn't have the right. I'm sure you'll find people who disagree though.
|
|
By:
So he should have taken the beating and only tried to defend himself with his arms/body?
|
|
By:
Yep.
|
|
By:
That might be the case in Britain (if you have a gun license and approval to have it on you at the time of the attack). But as we can see Florida have different laws.
|
|
By:
I doubt the spirit of the law really does permit what most people suspect has happened in this case. If it did the Florida PD would be even busier than they already are.
|
|
By:
Just to add to this:
trayvon is 6ft3 high school football player. Zimmerman is 5ft3 and overweight |
|
By:
one poor black guy shot by 'white' guy
outrage and demos across america two white english killed by black kid zilch!!!! nice and balanced NOT |
|
By:
Clearly not overweight enough to not run after him, as Zimmerman has already admitted to chasing him down.
Several republicans involved in the stand your ground law have also clarified this aspect of the law: HLN legal analyst Sunny Hostin said that, while Florida's is perhaps the broadest such law in the country, she disagrees with assertions that it allows people who start confrontations to get away with murder. "If you're the first aggressor, if you are pursuing, you cannot avail yourself of this self-defense claim," she said. Florida Rep. Dennis Baxley, who was the prime House sponsor of the legislation, also weighed in on such a position. "Nothing in 'stand your ground' authorizes (you) to pursue and confront," he said. Absolutely fascinating, yet depressing case. |
|
By:
i was thinking exactly the same moisok
|
|
By:
I think the difference being the guy who shot the two white guys is now on trial for the crime.
The guy who shot the black guy, admitted it, and hasn't even been arrested, bailed and investigated. It was just taken as truth whatever he said. |
|
By:
I think the difference being the guy who shot the two white guys is now on trial for the crime.
The guy who shot the black guy, admitted it, and hasn't even been arrested, bailed and investigated. It was just taken as truth whatever he said. |
|
By:
I think the difference being the guy who shot the two white guys is now on trial for the crime.
The guy who shot the black guy, admitted it, and hasn't even been arrested, bailed and investigated. It was just taken as truth whatever he said. |
|
By:
|
|
By:
no - the difference is that there was never a country wide outcry about the killing of whites
all the professinal human rights 'leaders' who make their living out of this are tucking into ot with glee - hypocracy |
|
By:
I don't think it's all about the killing, like I said, it's the fact nothing is being properly investigated, it's just getting shoved under the carpet by the local police.
The white guys murder was investigated, a suspect found, arrested and charged, and is now on trial. |
|
By:
|
|
By:
and you'd deserve to go to prison for it
|
|
By:
why are these people allowed to carry guns? - if anybody hasn't watched Michael Moore's film, "Bowling for Columbine" it's well worth a watch.
Allowing young, temperamental, judgmental, prejudicial, hot headed young men to carry lethal weapons is nothing short of lunacy. |
|
By:
|
|
By:
In Britain Tony Martin shot and killed a teenage burglar who was running away. He ended up doing 1 year in jail.
I would say that is much worse than shooting someone who is in the middle of beating you up! |
|
By:
Is it worse than what George Zimmerman did though?
|
|
By:
controversial that one Helissio. Some would say Martin fired blindly in the dark under little physical threat before any of them had a chance to run. although in his defence he had been burgled quite a few times.
|
|
By:
|
|
By:
You're asking me to trust media reporting?
|
|
By:
it is a witness statement. Also here is the police report:
http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin%20Lakes%20Shooting%20Initial%20Report.pdf |
|
By:
It looks like a media report from the link, but I can't read it...not going to this new forum, thank you.
|
|
By:
Your welcome
|