AMAZING... an EARTH twin.......the universe is obviosly teeming with life...

..just thinking of these numbers and the vastness of our universe is incredible.....

an estimated 17 billion earth size planets in our galaxy (the milky way) alone....

and an estimated 100 billion other galaxies in the universe.....!!!!!!!!!!

..even if only a tiny tiny fraction of earth size planets are in the habitable zones surely there is something else out there!!!

howdy renge..i hail from the planet Trafalmadore.

howdy renge..i hail from the planet Trafalmadore.

I hope your lot don't say EVERYTHING twice!

Yes numer0ne.. I was thinking along the lines of how incomprehensible our lives are today in relation to our ancestors of just 100/150 years ago. Imagine if our GP's deceased in the early 1900's or GGP's 1850's came back today. 200mph cars, 50mpg cars, superfast trains, Mediterranean and worldwide travel, motorways, mobile phones and text messages, 100 television stations, supersonic flight, men on the moon, humans on the ISS, spacecraft and telescopes far out in space etc.
Even my 1920's born Mum cannot comprehend how I can skype with Aussie 5th.cousins unknown to us just a few years ago or chat with a whole load of Betfair strangers every day!
We have newly found bugs living in the atmosphere above us, the weirdest of creatures in the ocean depths, even the yeti has now been identified. If the earth were 'human' it would be middle-aged and dinosaurs were alive just half-an-hour ago.
(there's one or two in the politics forum)
Multiply this by the numbers such as renge has just quoted and I don't think we can even imagine what those other 'lifeforms' maybe like even in substance, let alone manner of existence. Doubt they'd be watching Sky News or x-factor!

..spot on Ivor.

...nice site for anyone interested........

I don't pretend to understand it all but very interesting and I like learning.

http://www.astrobio.net/

REPORTED! - egner is implying he understands MOST of it

The size of the universe, at this time so many billion light years, is of no
relevance to the possibility of life.

It will always remain out of reach of mans most powerful telescopes, and must remain
empty. Nothing else is possible because if we could see the edge of the universe then
we would know everything.

This also means there can be no other lifeforms.

Oh poo - goodnight all (sad face)

lfc1971     22 Oct 13 23:22 
The size of the universe, at this time so many billion light years, is of no
relevance to the possibility of life.
It will always remain out of reach of mans most powerful telescopes, and must remain
empty. Nothing else is possible because if we could see the edge of the universe then
we would know everything.
This also means there can be no other lifeforms



I believe the complete opposite but sadly neither of us can prove what is out there so no-one is right or wrong.

it easy    0.00001     to back   that life is out there   

only 400 years ago we thinks the world was flat and

2 to 3000 years ago   we thinks  the god  is our sun


there is life out there  where there is  water and heat

then 

it beeming with type of lifeforms

We are here and we walk among you now.

Oops... they are here and they walk among us now.

Do these people like sprouts?

No we don't.

Sorry, I mean - how would I know?

This is good, its interactive - use your middle scroll button.  Click on item to get information.


http://htwins.net/scale2/

http://www.astrobio.net/exclusive/5765/exoplanets-1-000-and-counting

..100o and counting.....

Brrrrraaavvvvooooooooooooooooooooooo..........

and hurry up......I would like some proof before I die...thanks

nice thread, something interesting to find out about

all new to me, will have lots of fun reading all about it

thanks for posting

..and to recap...some mind blowing numbers posted earlier on....

an estimated 17 billion earth size planets in our galaxy (the milky way) alone....

and an estimated 100 billion other galaxies in the universe.....!!!!!!!!!!

..even if only a tiny tiny fraction of earth size planets are in the habitable zones surely there is something else out there!!!

...amazing....

Anybody that thinks that we are alone in the Universe - is thick.

not really, anyone who believes that that there absolutely is other life is thick, because there is absolutely zero proof or evidence. You may as well believe in god.. and who says a planet has to be like earth for life to exist?

We could be all alone, we really could.

Nov 27, 2013 -- 9:00AM, egner wrote:

..and to recap...some mind blowing numbers posted earlier on....an estimated 17 billion earth size planets in our galaxy (the milky way) alone....and an estimated 100 billion other galaxies in the universe.....!!!!!!!!!!..even if only a tiny tiny fraction of earth size planets are in the habitable zones surely there is something else out there!!! ...amazing....

Ampleforth (did you go to the school?) it should be obvious from these figures that the chances of there being other life is 1.01 (to use gambling terminology)

" thick "

your thick if you believe or thick if you don't !

No-one is thick its just you have two contrasting views I believe one to be the case rather than the other does not make me thick imo.

Anyway who can disprove that our galaxy is not a speck of dust in someone's fingernail, ridiculous I know but it cannot be proved to be wrong 100%

(the school being the well known catholic public school)

We`ve so much to learn and understand. We are but primitive beings who can`t even make sense of the basics.

It's a matter of probability as we don't actually know

what is the probability that out of the estimated number of habitable planets that none ever saw life develop?

the answer is undoubtedly an infinitesimally small probability that life does not exist on other planets

however, the gives a finite probability of both outcomes

and that means we cannot be sure either way

I am definitely in the 'we are not alone camp'

but only because of the numbers involved

arguing about being 'thick' is really rather irrelevant

Ampleforth (did you go to the school?) it should be obvious from these figures that the chances of there being other life is 1.01 (to use gambling terminology)

no sorry, it really isn't obvious, could you show your working please , I really cant get any figure when I try and work it out from those numbers you provided, all it says on my PC after inputting everything is "Insufficuent Data"

it is not a matter of probability at all....

..hopefully this thread isn't going to descend into name calling....

..been a decent debate with different shades of views on both sides...

..I am obviously on the life is abundant side...but others have equally well put views that disagree...

..and as has been stated.. there is no definitive proof either way....yet!!!!

...perhaps things will become a little clearer when this bad boy gets fired up.....The James Webb Telescope

...not till 2018 though....

http://www.jwst.nasa.gov/

http://www.astrobio.net/interview/4296/the-james-webb-telescope-will-see-earth-like-worlds

of course it is a matter of probability, there is no other (reasonable) way to look at it

we have no concrete proof either way (as long as you ignore conspiracy theories about aliens being found on Earth etc)

so to determine whether life exists on the exoplanets you can only assign a probability


not too bright ampleforth huh?

..taken from the second link.....

Q: You can see any sort of planets with that?

MM: Any planet that’s within 1 AU, like a habitable zone, or [farther] out.

John Grunsfeld (JG): James Webb is sold as studying galaxies, but I think its greatest discovery may be a habitable Earth-like exoplanet.  That’s what’s going to blow everybody away.

Q: So you’d be able to directly image a terrestrial planet, which has never been done before?

JG: Exactly.  But it wouldn’t be like a Rand McNally map, it would be a spot.  But because you’d see a spot, we can then do a spectrum of that spot.

MM: You’d actually get a color.  If it’s like Earth, it’ll look blue.

JG:  And, if you had enough time, and there were seasons, with ice covering and then going away, you could study it and be able to tell the difference between winter and summer on the planet, or vegetation, in principle. Just from unresolved single pixels, because of the color changes.

...WOW....not launching till 2018.....

...more incredible stuff....

http://www.astrobio.net/exclusive/5863/up-in-the-air-hot-jupiters-highlight-challenges-in-the-search-for-life-beyond-earth

..especially the last paragraph.

roll on the James Webb telescope...

The Drake Equation deals with probabilities of Extra Terrestrial Life. We can actually plug some of the numbers in and get an estimate.

http://www.classbrain.com/artmovies/publish/article_50.shtml

My own opinion is the Universe is teeming with life but space fairing beings are a lot harder to come by. Life around deep sea vents has actually increased those chances as it means that Sunlight is not needed. For this reason I'm hopeful of life on Europa, a Moon of Jupiter. It has a thick ice crust with an ocean underneath. It's also squeezed by Jupiter and it's other Moons so it has a heat source. The Ice Crust protects the ocean from dangerous radiation from Jupiter and it's strong magnetic field. Callisto (another Jupiter Moon)and Encelydous (a Moon of Saturn) also may have liquid water.

I don't think we have to look beyond our own Solar System for life but the numbers are astounding on the number of Suns, Planets and now Moons where we could find life. Just because we haven't found life doesn't mean there is none. Lack of evidence is not evidence of absence.

do people still take the drake equation seriously?

unbelievable

...looks increasingly likely there was at least primitive life on our next door neighbour......

http://www.astrobio.net/pressrelease/5866/ancient-lake-on-mars-could-have-sustained-life

...imagine what else is out there among the billions and billions of planets........incred

...1000 and counting...great stuff.....

http://www.astrobio.net/index.php?option=com_retrospection&task=detail&id=5896

..and more on the way no doubt once Gaia and the James Webb get up and running....

..fascinating times.

does it have a molten iron core that generates a protective magnetic field? does it have water to cool itself? does it have large planetary bodies to soak up stray meteorites. is it the right distance from its sun so that it doesn't get stripped of its atmosphere. does it have soil. has it a moon that governs tides. that is exactly the right distance to give a perfect solar eclipse. what's the odds so far in this accumulator? just like earth - total pisch.

do people still take the drake equation seriously?

unbelievable

Have you got a better equation?

You state was is required for human life but if we've only one sample to choose from then how do we know what constitutes life?

My money would go on Europa. It was recently discovered that there were jets coming off the Moon. This is great news for any future space mission as we don't have to land there - we can simply fly through the jets to sample it's ocean.

The drake equation works well. I think the biggest problem is the life expectancy for any advanced species. We've emitted radio waves for 100 years but I think our own greed and technology will kill ourselves. Whether it's a runaway greenhouse or inventing something like the large hadron collider that will destroy us. Quite possibly a nuclear war could also wipe us out for a good few years. 3D printers can print a gun. What in 100 years when it could print a nuclear weapon? I fear for our own species TBH and would solve the Fermi Paradox of why the aliens aren't here yet.

If we find E.T.,  that could change the way our species behaves but I'm not hopeful.

E.T. will find us. We couldn`t launch a squib. Primitive savages, that`s what we are.

Whatever happened to Drake? He was good in The Worker with Henry McGee

Cosmos ,schmosmos...know nothing about it and care even less.
Any advance on 17,000,000,000 ? Can anyone say they have a concept of what 17 billion of anything is ?

heard this from a physics scientist years ago about this age old question.

if the universe is finite (that means its got a limit of existence) then what is outside of the finite zone

his answer was is this 'what is north of the north pole'

we all know the north pole exists which has a physical existence ie you can put a flag there

Let's hope they can play cricket and Engerland can sign em up sharpish.

Will make a change from Saffers..

It takes light 100,000 years, at 199,000 miles per second, to cross the Milky Way, a pitifully small galaxy by universal standards. We know that there is, or has been, life on one planet and possibly a couple of moons in that galaxy. It's silly to even imagine that life has not evolved in some form elsewhere imo.

Regarding the alleged necessity for water, this does seem a touch parochial. It should not be fanciful to think that there could be methane-based life-forms for instance, or life adapted to any environment.

I guess we'll never know though until someone answers Karen Carpenter.

Well we've nearly wiped most of the natural life off this planet, and are breeding faster than rats...new worlds for our disgraceful race to destroy...cool!

DukeofPuke

The intellectual dishonesty of a physics scientist answering what is outside the finite
zone of the universe with "what is north of the north pole" is an illustration of why we
cannot trust scientists.

How strange would it be that conscious life was confined to our pale blue dot of a planet in the entire cosmos?

in all honestly ....gotta believe theres tons of life out there....otherwise the whole universe cosmos suns planets galaxies is just a humungous waste of fecking space .... coulda condensed it infinitely to save on maintenance etc...

..loads more found....bravo

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-26362433

..only a tiny tiny tiny tiny fraction of what is out there of course.......

great stuff

Hologram.

yes Velasquez..an interesting theory.....

......but I think it is one born out of the necessity to try and explain the anomalies in the rules of physics regarding information loss ...(which according to the tenets of physics law should not be allowed to happen)... that Black Holes present!!!!

.....this is very interesting episode of Horizon - What is Reality?......very interesting...

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xkvoa0_bbc-horizon-2011-what-is-reality-hdtv_tech

....and with regard to the origins of the Hologram theory especially relevant from 35:00 onwards where the guy is trying to reconcile this anomaly.

Super-Habitable World May Exist Near Earth

http://www.astrobio.net/exclusive/5984/super-habitable-world-may-exist-near-earth

..very very interesting

Most earth like planet yet found...kepler 186f...

..and found in our own galaxy.. the Milky Way...

http://www.astrobio.net/pressrelease/6132/first-earth-size-planet-in-the-habitable-zone-of-another-star-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-27054366

..amazing...new ones being found all the time.....surely only a matter of time before a discovery is made that shakes the foundations of our society..

...brilliant and very exciting.

...from the brilliant TED site.

Jeremy Kasdin.... The flower-shaped starshade that might help us detect Earth-like planets...March 2014.

http://www.ted.com/talks/jeremy_kasdin_the_flower_shaped_starshade_that_might_help_us_detect_earth_like_planets

....amazing...so exciting

Feb 3, 2012 -- 4:25PM, Angel Gabrial wrote:

They can have their Gods, but their so called factual historical literature needs eradicating.

erm..how on earth do you think that people living thousands of years ago could have deduced the

the history of life on this planet, the big bang and the nature of the universe

they would have had to be extremely clever Angel!

How do we know we have got it right???

Still it is a step forward we have discovered most stars have planets

The next problem...how on earth are we going to discover if they have life or not

unless they have developed intelligent life like ours ha ha, and at least show some sign to us

a simple hello via radio waves would do it!

Still scientists are extremely clever, someone may find a way to prove it

or we get bigger telescopes, then we can see if somebody or something is actually moving about on the surface

of these planets

I live in hope, I was brought up on 'Star Trek' like everybody else

This is a good thing we humans do, better than trying to find ever more effective ways of killing each other

much better

ebulGery  • April 26, 2014 10:35 PM BST 

Still it is a step forward we have discovered most stars have planets

The next problem...how on earth are we going to discover if they have life or not

unless they have developed intelligent life like ours ha ha, and at least show some sign to us

a simple hello via radio waves would do it!



...this fella...when launched around 2018...together with the technology in my last post...will help quite a bit I think.

http://www.astrobio.net/interview/4296/the-james-webb-telescope-will-see-earth-like-worlds

I agree that it is a 10000000000000000/1 shot that there is no other intelligent life form in the entire universe, and many, many habitable planets.

we wouldn't all get there. When technology advanced enough and it was obvious we had to inhabit other planets to survive, a vessel would have to be built that is in essence a small town where generations could live, be educated, work, play and die until we reached the planet. I mean I'm talking thousands, even millions of years probably, but we will do it one day.

One day Star trek technology will no longer be fiction. In the 1890's, we laughed at the idea of flight, less than a century later we had landed on the moon. Incredulous to think what we could achieve in a thousand years.

I look forward to it egner...I hope I am still around

I love all this stuff

people always object, they say why do we not spend money on sorting out our Earth first

personally I think we would have a higher probability of reaching the stars than ever doing this

we need to get off this planet fast before we exterminate ourselves imo

Regretfully the technology needed will be able to do both

a wonderful vision treble

This new discovery isn't exactly an Earth twin but we're getting closer and we're really only at the beginning stages of all this.

I'm very hopeful Enger that we can find the traces of life in these planets even in the next 20 years. The next level of telescopes including the James Webb Space telescope will be able to spectroscopically analyse these planets' atmospheres. The technology is already in place.

36 hour Astronomy "thon"; You can ask any questions on Google+ from the experts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxuoES7vYdw

"Preparing for Alien Life"

http://www.astrobio.net/news-exclusive/preparing-alien-life/

..great stuff...cant be long...nope.

Did u c that on the bbc4 last night, Egner? With the family going on the long space journey by Airfix kit? The wee lad was driving the ship...they couldn't take their dog.

The wee girl said "Mummy - they say the XoTractic driver might blow up tomorrow." Then the Mum said, "But darling, it might blow up in a week or a month or a hundred years...the important thing is that we continue our MASSIVE interstellar space quest for the sake of all humans everywhere."

They went through a black hole, but the BBC special effects department circa 1975 were a bit stretched to pull off the err... stretch. Instead we had wobbly film and double images and looks of amazement. It didn't really work, no wonder it was canceled - expensive for the time without looking competent. The best bit was when they got the spaceship to travel at the speed of light by having Brian Blessed bellow out the back. The kids let it down, the boy seem to pointing out the bleeding obvious to people who'd already know in a "That's Einstein's special relativity that is!" kind of way. He'd definitely be the first one out the airlock when no one was looking.

It was good fun though. The programme before with Blessed had him trying to impress our Alice Roberts with his bloodshot eyes and raving while Cox looked a little uncomfortable. There was sod all else on.

...won't be long now...nope.......

...roll on the James Webb....yep.

http://www.astrobio.net/topic/solar-system/meteoritescomets-and-asteroids/ceres-spots-continue-to-mystify-in-latest-dawn-images/

...intriguing....oh yeah.......

Good evening Egner sir.

Hello evgeny........


......not long to contact.....that should shake things up a bit...oh yeah.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3136480/Alien-hunters-discove...

....NASA cuts the feed.........Again (there's a surprise).......,

....looks like they are tired of waitiing for us to find them....!!!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-cD_uSXrdvA

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/the-star-thats-ten-million-times-b...

no closer to finding intelligent life out there then.

reckon its 1 million to 1 we ever fin intelligent life out there.

If i was a bookie id luv to lay 10/1 intelligent life out there (capable of communication with us)is found in next 50 years. Money for old rope.

...imo it is out there.....now...as we speak......

...given the mathematics....

....which can be applied on the computer or iPad that we are using and just as easily as it can be applied trillions of miles away from where we are..........

...maths is all.......it is the code on which the fabric of the universe and everything that is contained in it is based.....

....and imo it dictates that life ......and what we would consider "intelligent" life is abundant throught this universe and all the others.

I will have £1 on the million  TIA .

Hawking on the case.....googo.....

http://www.astrobio.net/topic/deep-space/alien-life/yuri-milner-and-stephen-hawking-announce-100-million-breakthrough-initiative-to-dramatically-accelerate-search-for-intelligent-life-in-the-universe/

....great stuff.

And BBC4 at 1100 tonight......

How big is the universe?

Catching up on I-Player, thought the Sky at Night was brilliant even though I don't like the presenters. Quality science at its best imo.

"Big" announcement tomorrow from Kepler tomorrow (Thursay 23/07/15)

http://www.iflscience.com/nasa-announce-major-new-planet-discovery-kepler-tomorrow-and-you-can-watch-it-live

My guess is an Earth like planet in the habitable zone of a Red Dwarf star (probably tidally locked an blasted by radiation.)

You need to watch this Youtube video from Paul Hellyer the Ex-Canadian Minister of Defence
YES CANADIAN MINISTER OF DEFENCE-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhElE3JILAE
According to him ...they're already here !
Don't shoot the messenger !

....thanks for the heads up Ovalman.......will look forward to it.....

.......could be plausible Rockinron

....... if they were already here....im sure they would be advanced enough to know the reaction they would receive from the majority.......

.....if a more intelligent and advanced species has made it here im pretty sure they would find a way to be here without being known or noticed.

AND AGAIN ....are you getting it yet ?
You need to watch this Youtube video from Paul Hellyer the Ex-Canadian Minister of Defence
YES CANADIAN MINISTER OF DEFENCE-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhElE3JILAE
According to him ...they're already here !
Don't shoot the messenger !

Evidence presented as follows :-
1)NASA Astronaut - Gordon Cooper 1st Man In Space Admits Aliens are Real.
2)Dr. Edgar Mitchell UFO Interview 2013... Aliens are Real and Watching Us.
3)Astronauts And UFOs. (Neil Armstrong, Gordon Cooper and Edgar Mitchell All Witnessed UFOs....Aliens are Real.
4)NASA Astronaut Gordon Cooper talks about UFO's   
5)AND AGAIN ....are you getting it yet ?
You need to watch this Youtube video from Paul Hellyer the Ex-Canadian Minister of Defence
YES EX CANADIAN MINISTER OF DEFENCE-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhElE3JILAE
According to him ...they're already here ! 
Question ...Is Seth Shostak (SETI) biggest prick on the planet (or liar) ...he couldn't find coal down a coal mine !

So what's this new 10-year, 100 million dollar search for alien life that was announced earlier this week, if they are already here?

You need to watch this Youtube video from Paul Hellyer the Ex-Canadian Minister of Defence
YES EX CANADIAN MINISTER OF DEFENCE-

Prime Minister of Great Britain said Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.

Evidence presented as follows :-
1)NASA Astronaut - Gordon Cooper 1st Man In Space Admits Aliens are Real.

eh ?

How would they know we were here or did they just stumble upon us by accident?

How did they manage travel such a long distance?

I'll take evidence from a man who claims Gordon Cooper to be the first man in space with a large pinch of salt thank you.

I'm watching now - it's a planet orbiting a star like our Sun, 20% bigger but at a similar distance. It's a lot more massive and it's Sun is 2 billion years older.

...thanks for the link Ovalman.......great stuff.

...only a matter of time before we find life.......primitive or intelligent.....the James Webb telescope once it is launched in a few years will find incredible things i'm sure.

Just read about the planet. Would be great to work in this field.

yes shanelee.....very interesting....

...getting up each day wondering if this is the day you will help to discover the most monumental thing in human history....life on another plant!!!!

....always wondered what he meant by this.......

"there are great ideas undiscovered....breakthroughs available to those who can remove one of truths protective layers.."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eJ536jQLb0