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"you'll known this, (sneeringly derogatory as if my knowing it would confirm geek status)is the euro zone the same as the commonwealth"
somewhat baffled, i asked "in what way?"
youth "let me ask it another way - whats the difference between the euro zone and the eec?"
still a little baffled - "i believe the eec is all european countries that have signed up to freedom of movement of people between them and the abscence of trade tariffs etc while the euro zone is the countries that actually use the euro as their currency"
youth "hmmm. ok. whats the commonwealth then?"
me "have you ever watched the commonwealth games?"
youth "yeah and there aren't any european countries in it at all"
not only baffled but a little exasperated too "what countries are in it?"
youth "just a load of RANDOM ones"
after involuntary laughter (i'm a bit ashamed) i started on a brief spin through our imperialistic history which was greeted much like i imagine 8 year olds react to listening to harry potter being read out.
i don't know what to think to be honest.
somewhat baffled, i asked "in what way?"
youth "let me ask it another way - whats the difference between the euro zone and the eec?"
still a little baffled - "i believe the eec is all european countries that have signed up to freedom of movement of people between them and the abscence of trade tariffs etc while the euro zone is the countries that actually use the euro as their currency"
youth "hmmm. ok. whats the commonwealth then?"
me "have you ever watched the commonwealth games?"
youth "yeah and there aren't any european countries in it at all"
not only baffled but a little exasperated too "what countries are in it?"
youth "just a load of RANDOM ones"
after involuntary laughter (i'm a bit ashamed) i started on a brief spin through our imperialistic history which was greeted much like i imagine 8 year olds react to listening to harry potter being read out.
i don't know what to think to be honest.
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What course do you suppose he studied? Certainly not history.
I'm convinced it's folic acid. Pregnant women get a daily supplement which is about 5 times what you'd get in a normal diet. This is to prevent spina bifida, but too much causes brain changes in the developing foetus that have lifelong consequences.
Lol, geography? so basically just colouring in
Before you say it, I do not study media studies
Before you say it, I do not study media studies
errr yes, colouring in , you must know a lot about the subject. may have changed a lot since 1986.
Well yeah maybe, everybody got laughed at when they decided to take geography at GCSE/A level. It was the easy way out basically. Want a doss exam that anyone can get 100% in? take geography. Uhhhh, what's the capital of France????
Geography is just as bad as media studies
Geography is just as bad as media studies
Actually the youth in the original post obviously didn't do geography either!
sorry,forgot to add that we are narrowing it down a bit.
what does the fact he went to uni have to do with anything? about as relevant as you saying 'a brown haired youth asked me today'...
geography as a degree actually ranks very highly in terms of graduates who enter into a full time job within 6 months of finishing. human geography is a million miles away from the capitals of countries but you're obviously too much of a cretin to realise that. and before you ask, no I don't have a geography degree, I have a history degree. proper subject [;)]
Well, I think you'd expect that someone who went to uni would have a greater knowledge of basic stuff, like the British commonwealth.
(whereas brown haired people would have the same knowledge as black or blonde haired people).
(whereas brown haired people would have the same knowledge as black or blonde haired people).
So you big up geography and then claim its not a proper subject? Fair enough. Please don't call me a cretin. He didn't mention Human geography and clearly that is nothing to do with capitals. I was going on what I learnt up to year 9 and what people who took it at GCSE/A level have told me. I haven't looked into what degree level geography entails and couldn't care less. By the way, I study Economics, proper subject
Good point wur,I wonder what colour the youth's hair was?My money is on blonde!
The best economists in the world can't even agree about the causes of the 'Great Depression'. It's the most unscientific 'science'.
When I was at school economics was classed as an art rather than science subject,not trying to be argumentative.
I have a friend who did a geography degree. He had a great time; always on field trips to exotic places. Has worked since surveying for the oil industry all over the world. Makes good money, but misses his family.
I don't know if it still the case but if you wanted to read, say, Philosophy, Politics and Sociology and major in philosophy as an undergrdauate at the LSE you had to sign up to do a BSc as opposed to a BA as you could elsewhere.
Economists since Marx have been trying to tell us it's a science; if it was you would have thought they would worked it all out by now.
I don't know if it still the case but if you wanted to read, say, Philosophy, Politics and Sociology and major in philosophy as an undergrdauate at the LSE you had to sign up to do a BSc as opposed to a BA as you could elsewhere.
Economists since Marx have been trying to tell us it's a science; if it was you would have thought they would worked it all out by now.
what sort of difficulty is sports development?
i ask because i know someone who has just got a 1st in it and i think he's a bit thick
i ask because i know someone who has just got a 1st in it and i think he's a bit thick
had 3 daughters go thru uni.....came out experts on wines ;lagers;and partying.
im a bit shaky on this too. the commonwealth is england and all the countries they raped and pillaged a few centuries ago isnt it?
A hell of a lot more students are going to university these days than 20 years ago....the bar would have to be lowered to achieve that. Even when I was at uni 20 years back I was amazed that fellow students could think 'our' was spelled 'are'.
I'm in two minds really, I see the point in teaching study over facts, but we seem to have reached a point where 'every argument has equal value' has become a nonsensical accepted credo. I had a lodger a couple of years ago who declared to me "I don't believe in steaming vegetables, it takes all the goodness out" and her entire basis for that view was that it was hers and she was entitled to it.
I'm in two minds really, I see the point in teaching study over facts, but we seem to have reached a point where 'every argument has equal value' has become a nonsensical accepted credo. I had a lodger a couple of years ago who declared to me "I don't believe in steaming vegetables, it takes all the goodness out" and her entire basis for that view was that it was hers and she was entitled to it.
Incidentally, when I was at university there was a basic rule - if you studied arts you had to be intelligent to get a good degree and it didn't matter if you were lazy, and the reverse applied with sciences.
Now they all work much harder, and intelligence barely seems to be relevant.
Now they all work much harder, and intelligence barely seems to be relevant.
floz, both my children are pretty bright (one Univ./one not).
I doubt if either of them have even heard of the Commonwealth. At least your student friend was brave enough to ask you what he didn't know. There is no shame in not knowing something that ceased to be relevant fifty years ago.
I doubt if either of them have even heard of the Commonwealth. At least your student friend was brave enough to ask you what he didn't know. There is no shame in not knowing something that ceased to be relevant fifty years ago.
What I'm driving at, is that a reasonably curious mind, would by age of 16 or so have enquired what the commonwealth in the commonwealth games referred to even if they had no interest in politics, and their school had forgotten to teach them any history.
If they've no interest in sport then fair enough, but that doesn't excuse their school from failing to teach such a basic historical/political fact.
If they've no interest in sport then fair enough, but that doesn't excuse their school from failing to teach such a basic historical/political fact.
but sparky he HAD tried !!!
He watched the Games and tried to find a pattern to explain which countries had qualified. If you had not studied History they are indeed a "random" selection of countries !
I told my daughter about the Empire on which the sun never set. Nationalism is a defunct concept in the modern border-less world. We were proud of it when I was at school. Now they are supposed to be ashamed of it. Easier to drop it from the syllabus and do A Level Kate Moss, or some such.
He watched the Games and tried to find a pattern to explain which countries had qualified. If you had not studied History they are indeed a "random" selection of countries !
I told my daughter about the Empire on which the sun never set. Nationalism is a defunct concept in the modern border-less world. We were proud of it when I was at school. Now they are supposed to be ashamed of it. Easier to drop it from the syllabus and do A Level Kate Moss, or some such.
In a thousand years time the history and geography of the areas we know now will not exist/be common knowledge. It doesn't happen overnight, its is a gradual process. We are in the first few years of it. It's negligible to the person you spoke to.
I'm not arguing that schools teach enough history, quite the opposite. But there's a test match recommencing tomorrow. A quick google search will tell anyone why. Learning is a partnership between teacher and student, if the student doesn't want to know it will always fail.
If it's regarded as relevant. You can't expect young people to know stuff that you regard as important. Everything has a shelf life regards human interest/importance.
You are just being woken up to it with your surprise that what you know isn't all that important.
Old cliche - time moves on.
You are just being woken up to it with your surprise that what you know isn't all that important.
Old cliche - time moves on.
yep grammar is a bit confusing to me/one/everyone at times!
how on earth can it not be considered intelligent to get a good scientific/mathematical degree?
any 'pure' degree requires very high intelligence levels to get a good mark.
whereas when i was at uni ten years agho all the dossers who werent very bright went into art/design/sport degreees and none ended up working in the fields they studied at uni.
wonder how many really do?
any 'pure' degree requires very high intelligence levels to get a good mark.
whereas when i was at uni ten years agho all the dossers who werent very bright went into art/design/sport degreees and none ended up working in the fields they studied at uni.
wonder how many really do?
Was yesterday "have a go at the younger generation day" ffs. It is the older generation that brought up the youngsters so take a look in the fkin mirror. And how many of them suffered conscription, or even national service? Too many whinging middle aged b.stards in this country for my liking - I bet back in the sixties and seventies they were the young c.nts moaning about the sneering older generation too.
Hypocrites the whole stinking lot of you.
Hypocrites the whole stinking lot of you.
a few moons ago, working in sydney we had a new bird who had just started, the job was pensions adminstration - we had to keep very abreast of all the many and varied legistlative changes that were occurring. So we asked her if she knew what an award was, in an employment context.
She said yes and we asked her to explain but she couldn't. Her degree was in economics and she had majored in industrial relations. hmmm
btw I think the comment about more attending uni these days therefore standards are lower is very apt. you only need to have a look at the questions on old exam papers and compare them to recent ones to see that standards have dipped. saying that, students today aren't any different than 20, 30, 40 years ago in terms of intelligence, obviously its not their fault the govt is dumbing down education.
She said yes and we asked her to explain but she couldn't. Her degree was in economics and she had majored in industrial relations. hmmm
btw I think the comment about more attending uni these days therefore standards are lower is very apt. you only need to have a look at the questions on old exam papers and compare them to recent ones to see that standards have dipped. saying that, students today aren't any different than 20, 30, 40 years ago in terms of intelligence, obviously its not their fault the govt is dumbing down education.
crediter 27 May 10 23:02
had 3 daughters go thru uni.....came out experts on wines ;lagers;and partying.
Nilsson Schmilsson 27 May 10 23:04
bet they were ripped to shreds too
Brilliant!
had 3 daughters go thru uni.....came out experts on wines ;lagers;and partying.
Nilsson Schmilsson 27 May 10 23:04
bet they were ripped to shreds too
Brilliant!
The company I'm with pays for the youngsters to go to college/uni - right up to degree level in engineering. These youngsters, from what I've seen are smart, dilligent and keen - they will be getting paid as they go, and learning, and could finish it all without a debt, probably a profit, possibly even with a deposit down on a flat and 6 years of real experience with an engineering consultancy. Surely that is a better way of going about it all. If i had my time again, that is what I'd do. An extra 2 or 3 years admittedly, but with no debt. No debt is literally priceless imo.
A glorified apprentice scheme I suppose, but brilliant all the same.
A glorified apprentice scheme I suppose, but brilliant all the same.
my tuppence worth - I went to Uni (German) and studied history and geography up to GCSE level.
With history, vast numbers of significant events were left untouched. I learnt about the first world war and the second world war, but nothing at all about any others. I learnt about the development of international trade routes to the Far East but nothing about the abolition of slavery or any mention of the Commonwealth. We spent a lot of time studying the Americas, but almost none on UK history.
Schools teach to pass exams, and if it isn;t on the syllabus it doens't get taught - what's the point? So it is surprising that a relative youngster doesn't know what the Commonwealth is? Not particularly, and nor does it give any great indication as to their mental faculties imo.
With history, vast numbers of significant events were left untouched. I learnt about the first world war and the second world war, but nothing at all about any others. I learnt about the development of international trade routes to the Far East but nothing about the abolition of slavery or any mention of the Commonwealth. We spent a lot of time studying the Americas, but almost none on UK history.
Schools teach to pass exams, and if it isn;t on the syllabus it doens't get taught - what's the point? So it is surprising that a relative youngster doesn't know what the Commonwealth is? Not particularly, and nor does it give any great indication as to their mental faculties imo.
Schools obviously have to specialise in the relveant period when it comes to examinations. But I was taught the whole spectrum of UK History from 1066 to 1945 between the ages of about 8 and 14. Does that not happen in schools anymore? If not, why not?
There was a lot of world history as well by the way, not just UK history.
well said yojimbo. I didn't learn much history at school - I opted for geography at GCSE. NOthing about WWII, nothing about WWI. A bit about russian revolution, tudors and stuarts and old school farming(by far the most interesting). I have no great interest in it either - it is almost impossible to work out who was right or wrong or whatever - I find it terribly frustrating reading about historical stuff, cricket statistics aside.
I bet I don't know some very basic historical facts that some of the boring old types on here would consider it sacrilege for me not knowing.
I bet I don't know some very basic historical facts that some of the boring old types on here would consider it sacrilege for me not knowing.
Consider the British Empire.
There will be loads of well educated historians who denounce it, and loads of well educated historians who say it was brillian. They will do loads of research and write papers and books and stuff, but generally they seem to be trying to prove a point rather than trying to find a truth. I couldn't begin to get in a an argument about it as some well read person would destroy me with facts, but he'd still be biased in some way.
That bloke that said "History is largely bunkum" or something was about right imo. The best history i've ever learned is just speaking to parents and older people about the way it used to be, not whose fault a p.ssing war was.
There will be loads of well educated historians who denounce it, and loads of well educated historians who say it was brillian. They will do loads of research and write papers and books and stuff, but generally they seem to be trying to prove a point rather than trying to find a truth. I couldn't begin to get in a an argument about it as some well read person would destroy me with facts, but he'd still be biased in some way.
That bloke that said "History is largely bunkum" or something was about right imo. The best history i've ever learned is just speaking to parents and older people about the way it used to be, not whose fault a p.ssing war was.
A couple of years ago when she was 13 my daughter spent a whole term's History studying Jack The Ripper. She learned the identities of all the victims and the precise ways in which they were dismembered and disembowelled. When I asked her what all this had taught her about late 19th century Victorian society, she just looked at me blankly and said they weren't "doing" that.
sparkmaster. 28 May 10 01:55
What I'm driving at, is that a reasonably curious mind, would by age of 16 or so have enquired what the commonwealth in the commonwealth games referred to...
That is where you are going wrong, expecting young people to have curious minds. Kids that grew up in the 1990s had everything handed to them on a plate. They don't need to be curious or take any interest in anything, just take all the handouts and praise that come their way.
What I'm driving at, is that a reasonably curious mind, would by age of 16 or so have enquired what the commonwealth in the commonwealth games referred to...
That is where you are going wrong, expecting young people to have curious minds. Kids that grew up in the 1990s had everything handed to them on a plate. They don't need to be curious or take any interest in anything, just take all the handouts and praise that come their way.
who handed the kids everything on a plate please.
Children will always have curious minds, nothing will stop this. Our kids are the most tested in the world, surely blame for any perceived failing in education lies mainly with the educators, not the pupils?
Tested, but only on facts that will come up in the exam and then quickly forgotten next term. I remember asking my teachers questions and getting the answer "You don't need to worry about that, it won't come up in the exam"
Seriously? No thought that I might just want to know out of curiosity?
Probably cover for the fact that the teacher didn't know...
Seriously? No thought that I might just want to know out of curiosity?
Probably cover for the fact that the teacher didn't know...
forum - take a bow son.
what an excellent exchange of views!
fwiw my take on the above is -
i wholeheartedly agree that its not the kids fault that the government has dumbed down education but i do find it unbelievable that kids aren't that interested in things. as a genrealisation they seem to have a much narrower range of knowledge in an age where a broad range of basic knowledge is so easy to acquire. type commonwealth into wikipedia and see what i mean. all kids have access to the greatest source of knowledge and entertainment in the world ever; the internet - lucky little blighters. i wish they would get the benefit.
did anyone see an episode of mock the week when david mitchell said (paraphrased) "exams have been made easier and easier and easier until eventually every student will get straight a*'s. what downside is there to that? only civilisation. we'll end up all dressed in gowns in mortar boards grunting at each other me clever you clever"
ok, said for laughs but sadly containing some truth.
what an excellent exchange of views!
fwiw my take on the above is -
i wholeheartedly agree that its not the kids fault that the government has dumbed down education but i do find it unbelievable that kids aren't that interested in things. as a genrealisation they seem to have a much narrower range of knowledge in an age where a broad range of basic knowledge is so easy to acquire. type commonwealth into wikipedia and see what i mean. all kids have access to the greatest source of knowledge and entertainment in the world ever; the internet - lucky little blighters. i wish they would get the benefit.
did anyone see an episode of mock the week when david mitchell said (paraphrased) "exams have been made easier and easier and easier until eventually every student will get straight a*'s. what downside is there to that? only civilisation. we'll end up all dressed in gowns in mortar boards grunting at each other me clever you clever"
ok, said for laughs but sadly containing some truth.
exams are not easier, it really pi$$es me off when people say that. the difference is that now kids are taught how to pass the exams rather than how to use the knowledge of their chosen subjects in their future lives. hence why you end up with kids who all ace exams, but have absolutely no common sense or general knowledge whatsoever.
At school in the 1980s and 90s English History between the Tudors/Stuarts and WW1 was not taught.
The whole Empire History was never mentioned.
So I am not surprised at the Commonwealth part in the OP.
But surely not knowing the Eurozone is different from the old EEC is weird given how much it has been in the news the last few years?
The whole Empire History was never mentioned.
So I am not surprised at the Commonwealth part in the OP.
But surely not knowing the Eurozone is different from the old EEC is weird given how much it has been in the news the last few years?
I've just been turning the pages of "find the animal" with my 15 month old granddaughter. She threw it on the floor as she reached for my phone and stared blankly at the home screen. A shudder went through me as I had a ghastly vision of 16 years into the future.
I warned her that she'd better not try that when we get on to the Ladybird book of British Monarchs.
I warned her that she'd better not try that when we get on to the Ladybird book of British Monarchs.
Its fun to ask a millennial, 'How many women were in the Beatles?' 'How many black people were in the Beatles?' etc etc
Were any of you taught about british/irish history? I think I was lucky enough to get a good education but there was no mention of it. I am embarrassed by my ignorance of this. I've seen /read/heard the wind that shakes the barley, fields of athenry, the troubles etc. but I feel i know f all about it. Also'The winners write the history the losers write the songs' is irish i think and gives food for thought. I have a lot of irish friends but can't quite grasp this. I've been to Ireland a few times and loved it, but there is the odd lock in song that doesn't exactly celebrate brits! can anyone point me in the right direction to educate mysel please? slainte :-)
Don't be embarrassed, your Irish friends know **** all about it either.
I'm surprised we don't get more University graduates on here. They must miss getting lectured by old men. 
Packed it in when they started renaming everywhere. First off it was just countries, then they moved on to cities. Googled Bombay and got a picture of some corn based snack.
Close them down , or at least 95% of them . Nothing good has come out of our universities for 40 years. or longer ?
Pretty sure I had much more interesting things occupying my mind at uni than the commonwealth or world politics. Does seem to be lot of inverted snobbery about people going to uni, when I went it was just an excuse to get paid for being on the lash and avoiding work for a few more years not to better educate myself.
We learned all abbout the commonwealth and european history by the age of 14,just before we had to decide History or Chemistry for O'levels if applicable.
We wouldn't be seeing too many socialists in them anx, the mere mention of thw word would deter them all !
My word,that is impressive dogma anx,do you hate everyone on the right ? I got my education from a tory government and have never looked back but then again grammar schools were the best form of social mobility during my lifetime. Who stopped that ? Your guess.
Nope i dont hate everyone on the right , grammar schools and the 11 plus system are awful ways of judging children and throwing them on the scrapheap
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