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"High house prices are nothing to be proud of. If the average house cost a nominal £20k then every person could own one and enjoy every penny they earned on the things in life they wanted.
Instead this country has chosen to break the back of it's population with crippling high house prices. On paper we may have once looked like a rich nation but socially we are poorer than we have ever been.
And the government wonder why the young are out binge drinking, what else are they going to do? Sit in their rented dump aspiring to own the average £160k house with their measly £12k salary while coughing up £600 a month in rent.
The younger generation have been completely hosed to preserve the unearned housing riches of the older generation."
Spot on IMHO.
Instead this country has chosen to break the back of it's population with crippling high house prices. On paper we may have once looked like a rich nation but socially we are poorer than we have ever been.
And the government wonder why the young are out binge drinking, what else are they going to do? Sit in their rented dump aspiring to own the average £160k house with their measly £12k salary while coughing up £600 a month in rent.
The younger generation have been completely hosed to preserve the unearned housing riches of the older generation."
Spot on IMHO.
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The obsession with house prices in this country is a sickness at the source of nearly every financial ill that has befallen us in the global crisis, which is a long way from over.
Of course, tell that to someone with $50k equity in their house and all they hear is the voice of the teacher from Charlie Brown.."waaa waaaaaa waa waa waa"
Of course, tell that to someone with $50k equity in their house and all they hear is the voice of the teacher from Charlie Brown.."waaa waaaaaa waa waa waa"
There is no money to be made on a house once youve added up all the payments (asnd what you could have otherwise earnt on that money ).
I only pay a mortgage because it's less to shell out for than the rent equivalent ;)
I only pay a mortgage because it's less to shell out for than the rent equivalent ;)
that is because we dont have goats to leave our families...
it is absolutely plain to most that it is nice to build uyp a little bit of supposedly financial security for those you will leave behind when you die.
we are back to supply and demand. if you won something more than one person wants it increases in price... if you don't then it decreases till you do.
it's not hard...
it is absolutely plain to most that it is nice to build uyp a little bit of supposedly financial security for those you will leave behind when you die.
we are back to supply and demand. if you won something more than one person wants it increases in price... if you don't then it decreases till you do.
it's not hard...
rent money is dead money indeed
but I think, well say in Greece, I have a friend there, and his mum and dad built his house, apparently thats normal over there
we don't do that here, but however we have a generation that own houses, however, shouldn't really be seen as an investment but something to pass on down to your kids
my mum and dad are the first generation house owners in my family, in fact they can do whatever they like with their house, but in reality, I think they should pay it off which they can do and leave it at that, and they can pass it down to their kids i.e. me et al
so we can pay off our houses, and we'd do the same with our houses to our kids
but I think, well say in Greece, I have a friend there, and his mum and dad built his house, apparently thats normal over there
we don't do that here, but however we have a generation that own houses, however, shouldn't really be seen as an investment but something to pass on down to your kids
my mum and dad are the first generation house owners in my family, in fact they can do whatever they like with their house, but in reality, I think they should pay it off which they can do and leave it at that, and they can pass it down to their kids i.e. me et al
so we can pay off our houses, and we'd do the same with our houses to our kids
INFLATION is your answer.
Inflation really is hte effect of a paper currency, and this feeds the pysche that house always make money in the long run. As each generation comes and goes there is a pattern of houseprices to fall and rise, (much like anyother investment), and since we are always going to buy a house to live in, we then take a slight opinion change on it as also being an investment. And so the story loops.
The answer would be to rate houses and index link them. Will never happen though, ever.
Inflation really is hte effect of a paper currency, and this feeds the pysche that house always make money in the long run. As each generation comes and goes there is a pattern of houseprices to fall and rise, (much like anyother investment), and since we are always going to buy a house to live in, we then take a slight opinion change on it as also being an investment. And so the story loops.
The answer would be to rate houses and index link them. Will never happen though, ever.
Dealem.... 24 Jan 23:44
rent money is dead money only to those that would like to own property.
When you've bought it you have a (generally) appreciating asset which you can leverage for other purposes.
What have you got when you've paid out £600 per month (or equivalent) rent for 20 years?
rent money is dead money only to those that would like to own property.
When you've bought it you have a (generally) appreciating asset which you can leverage for other purposes.
What have you got when you've paid out £600 per month (or equivalent) rent for 20 years?
but I certainly don't see a house as an investment for myself but just a roff over my head
lol, and i think my Mum shouldnt pay off her house, or my Dad, i think they should reap the rewards of paying off most of it and forget about us and the repayments. i tell them to just pay interest and fk us.
in fact, i have told them both to pull a load out and live comfortably instead of being a slave to the repayments.
(both have seperated ages ago btw)
in fact, i have told them both to pull a load out and live comfortably instead of being a slave to the repayments.
(both have seperated ages ago btw)
rease, the only point i was trying to make is that some people dont want to be tied ionto a property...
i agree wholeheartedly that it is better to buy a house. if you dont want to live there then rent it out(better to have more than one, then you can absorb problems more easily)
buti do know for a fact that some pepople dont want to buy. it is as simple as that. if they were left a house they would probably sell it and rent lol
anyway, this is a different argument.
it would be dead money to me.
i agree wholeheartedly that it is better to buy a house. if you dont want to live there then rent it out(better to have more than one, then you can absorb problems more easily)
buti do know for a fact that some pepople dont want to buy. it is as simple as that. if they were left a house they would probably sell it and rent lol
anyway, this is a different argument.
it would be dead money to me.
dealem, I think you might find that most people tend to stay where they are for the rest of their life
we may disagree PF, but i am not saying you are wrong (in this case) just we think differently.
meant to add, it is a myth that houses always make money in the long run. it all depends on timing. some people, (in certain windows), gain, others, (in other windows) lose. If you compare the net effect of these two groups racing each other versus inflation then it is a net loss.
Owning vs rent id often cheaper in the long run though. In that respect we refer back to OP who stated that if everyone could build a house for £20K* we could all have higher disposable incomes.
* this is the same as some other countries where land is ample and cheap.
Owning vs rent id often cheaper in the long run though. In that respect we refer back to OP who stated that if everyone could build a house for £20K* we could all have higher disposable incomes.
* this is the same as some other countries where land is ample and cheap.
i don't know the stats on staying put. but i do know people generally like progress. you can rarely progress in the same property for ever.
the majority of people expect to buy 3 properties to live in. this was true about 1998 when I worked on a utility paper. BTL will have distorted that view, but only to the topside.
^ I appreciate that - everybody on here probably arguing from their own perspective based on their experience and circumstances.
Tend to agree that we're obsessed with property ownership in this country and it's not the panacea. Given the choice between saddling myself with a mortgage that I might not be able to afford if my circumstances changed and renting at a level that protected my disposable income, I'd do the latter every time.
Tend to agree that we're obsessed with property ownership in this country and it's not the panacea. Given the choice between saddling myself with a mortgage that I might not be able to afford if my circumstances changed and renting at a level that protected my disposable income, I'd do the latter every time.
2013 - 2015 is the period to be buying. outside of UK will likely be better, but need to heed more caution too.
I haven't stayed put regarding where I grew up
I have moved out(150 miles), god knows what will happen in my life, yes there is a property ladder or a new job that may be 20 miles away
but certainly I dont think most people would find themselves in a situation where they'd need to move 200miles constantly and find themselves better off renting, that's in the small minority
after all, it'd be good to stay somewhere for free when you have retired from it all at 65!
I have moved out(150 miles), god knows what will happen in my life, yes there is a property ladder or a new job that may be 20 miles away
but certainly I dont think most people would find themselves in a situation where they'd need to move 200miles constantly and find themselves better off renting, that's in the small minority
after all, it'd be good to stay somewhere for free when you have retired from it all at 65!
firslty we cant build a proper house for 20k
secondly it is wrong to say houses arent a good long term investment, mostly they are and that is fact.
of course investments can go up and down... you have to offset a property to the rent you would havebeen paying anyway and it is very unlikely that you woud lose.
secondly it is wrong to say houses arent a good long term investment, mostly they are and that is fact.
of course investments can go up and down... you have to offset a property to the rent you would havebeen paying anyway and it is very unlikely that you woud lose.
is moving 10 miles enough for you to search for another property?
i moved 7 miles away and live around completely differnt people. i aspire to move 5 miles more then i would think i "have made it". with kids on the way i will settle for moving 15 miles further until then... none of this will fit into your "life plan" i cant see where your coming form. i will reread all of your posts now... brb.
i used to. and these distances aren't all in one way.. they bounce back and forth. i could itemise them if you like, if it would make a difference...
i did state my exp is mainly about Londond at the start of this...
i did state my exp is mainly about Londond at the start of this...
I take the £20K as notional. the point being as you said houseprices are emotive more than a QS view. £60K would probably be a better figure, in which case the point remains that the economy would have a far greater amount of disposable income.
If you want to profit from houses then you have to remember that timing is everything. Just like any other investment. none of us will live long enough to see the long term in any market without the effect of its peaks and troughs being negligible. ANY INVESTMENT MARKET. Granted some will always show a profit if you hold for the long term, but against inflation it AND the difference in comparison between the same investment made timed optimum/non optimum is HUGE.
If you want to profit from houses then you have to remember that timing is everything. Just like any other investment. none of us will live long enough to see the long term in any market without the effect of its peaks and troughs being negligible. ANY INVESTMENT MARKET. Granted some will always show a profit if you hold for the long term, but against inflation it AND the difference in comparison between the same investment made timed optimum/non optimum is HUGE.
well notional isnt sutible for this arguement imo.
lol
can you breath with your head that deep in the sand? ;-)
can you breath with your head that deep in the sand? ;-)
If you want to profit from houses then you have to remember that timing is everything
lol, only if you want short term profits. long term property in almost any part of the UK is a safe bet to beat inflation.
i dont know what QS means i am afraid.
lol, only if you want short term profits. long term property in almost any part of the UK is a safe bet to beat inflation.
i dont know what QS means i am afraid.
Dealem, a job 50 miles away is common here and so on, but gather it might be more strenuous in London
to be honest, the housing market shouldn't be a place for business or investment
we should go the socialist route this way and make sure that everybody in this country has an affordable roof over their heads
we should go the socialist route this way and make sure that everybody in this country has an affordable roof over their heads
pf, i don't know where you are but it is obvious that people will travel futrher out of the big few cities. my aunt got moved form her job near he coast of n Yorks and had to drive an hour into York each day to work the new position... i truied to explain that with so many of her colleagues geting laid off it was the more preferable option.
a long trip near me is probably 20+ miles. that would involve a drive to an outskirts train station then a couple of changes into the city.
a long trip near me is probably 20+ miles. that would involve a drive to an outskirts train station then a couple of changes into the city.
If the average house cost a nominal £20k then every person could own one and enjoy every penny they earned on the things in life they wanted.
this statement in its slf is ajoke, it assumes people want to be the same. peope aspiring to be "better" (rightly or wrongly) is what keeps a lot of people driving on. some people wrnt made to all work together ion mines or sorting mail. some people were made to either do nothing or aquire more self regulated status.
even tribes living in mud huts have people at the top and bottom of the social network.
i hate unions also, i bet the OP like the idea of them... it is about who we are...
this statement in its slf is ajoke, it assumes people want to be the same. peope aspiring to be "better" (rightly or wrongly) is what keeps a lot of people driving on. some people wrnt made to all work together ion mines or sorting mail. some people were made to either do nothing or aquire more self regulated status.
even tribes living in mud huts have people at the top and bottom of the social network.
i hate unions also, i bet the OP like the idea of them... it is about who we are...
dealem, it was just the way you said yer better off renting rather than buying etc
i had presume you're a guy that moves all over the country doing whatever you do, that's why I mentioned those distances
you obviously don't want to be renting forever, as it'd be nice to have a property that you own where you can see out your retirement
I'm 30mins walk away from my work so I walk there but yea I travel away sometimes but use the work's car!, cushty!
it's just that in your previous posts, you seemed in favour of renting houses?
i had presume you're a guy that moves all over the country doing whatever you do, that's why I mentioned those distances
you obviously don't want to be renting forever, as it'd be nice to have a property that you own where you can see out your retirement
I'm 30mins walk away from my work so I walk there but yea I travel away sometimes but use the work's car!, cushty!
it's just that in your previous posts, you seemed in favour of renting houses?
can you give me the time of it pls. i an oposed to renting, i think that it isnt for everyone tho and some are more suited to it.
Dealem.... 24 Jan 23:10
the banks have lost millions, maybe billions in some cases to bad debt. stop waffling.
Only a Tory speaks like that ;)
but Dealem, surely a person can't be more suited to renting permanently?
again, it'd need to depend on how much he/she has saved throughout his/her life and so on
again, it'd need to depend on how much he/she has saved throughout his/her life and so on
i would be more a tory. i see tories as winners and the rest as either carers or workers TBO.
i know it isnt fact, just my opinion and am quite happy to voice that to get more debate going here lol
i will say tho that my fav politictian is that blind police one and he was labour so i am not blinkered i hope.
i do stay out of politics tho...
and to an observer i am a bum, i dont do anything, i get up late and sleep till late with a cocnkey accent and loads of "waster" mates. this is where i am from... loud music, heavy drinking fast cars and no higher education.
to someone who knows, i am a multi property owner, had 2 or 3 terrible years due to gambling and crash etc but am hopefully well over that now. i have sold the trash and am back infornt now.High IQ just uneducated. propertry is one of the few things i can talk with experience on. my word has always been worth a lot of money as i have never let anyone down financially and never moiss any payments.
i know a little about a lot but talk is cheap...
my plan now is to get out of renting(as a landlord) and go into development.
i know it isnt fact, just my opinion and am quite happy to voice that to get more debate going here lol
i will say tho that my fav politictian is that blind police one and he was labour so i am not blinkered i hope.
i do stay out of politics tho...
and to an observer i am a bum, i dont do anything, i get up late and sleep till late with a cocnkey accent and loads of "waster" mates. this is where i am from... loud music, heavy drinking fast cars and no higher education.
to someone who knows, i am a multi property owner, had 2 or 3 terrible years due to gambling and crash etc but am hopefully well over that now. i have sold the trash and am back infornt now.High IQ just uneducated. propertry is one of the few things i can talk with experience on. my word has always been worth a lot of money as i have never let anyone down financially and never moiss any payments.
i know a little about a lot but talk is cheap...
my plan now is to get out of renting(as a landlord) and go into development.
some people just dont want to buy.
i know this is a poor example, but i know a 65 year old gay aids riddon, incapacity benifit, sponger who works...
he has no kids... nor his "partner", should he buy?
i know this is a poor example, but i know a 65 year old gay aids riddon, incapacity benifit, sponger who works...
he has no kids... nor his "partner", should he buy?
Dealem.... 25 Jan 00:22
i would be more a tory. i see tories as winners and the rest as either carers or workers TBO. Tories are not winners, they just see people who front the rat race with as much rich help as possible
i know it isnt fact, just my opinion and am quite happy to voice that to get more debate going here lol
i will say tho that my fav politictian is that blind police one and he was labour so i am not blinkered i hope.
i do stay out of politics tho...I believe in politics a lot and enjoy debating
and to an observer i am a bum, i dont do anything, i get up late and sleep till late with a cocnkey accent and loads of "waster" mates. this is where i am from... loud music, heavy drinking fast cars and no higher education., you're certainly not seen as a bum who does all that stuff but own a few properties, the Tories would love that
my plan now is to get out of renting(as a landlord) and go into development.
i would be more a tory. i see tories as winners and the rest as either carers or workers TBO. Tories are not winners, they just see people who front the rat race with as much rich help as possible
i know it isnt fact, just my opinion and am quite happy to voice that to get more debate going here lol
i will say tho that my fav politictian is that blind police one and he was labour so i am not blinkered i hope.
i do stay out of politics tho...I believe in politics a lot and enjoy debating
and to an observer i am a bum, i dont do anything, i get up late and sleep till late with a cocnkey accent and loads of "waster" mates. this is where i am from... loud music, heavy drinking fast cars and no higher education., you're certainly not seen as a bum who does all that stuff but own a few properties, the Tories would love that
my plan now is to get out of renting(as a landlord) and go into development.
my first mortgage - about 1980 - was £15k and i earned £5k gross
I bought on my own
interest rates were 14.25% - including a loading of 1% because i was the first sub prime risk before we'd even heard of sub prime
I had nothing new in the flat and it was an unheated sh1ttip
i had a motorbike for work- no chance of even a beaten up car
youngsters today have it all too easy
sorry- i sound like a grandad- but its all true
ever scraped the ice off the inside of your windows to see out and what the weather is like?
I bought on my own
interest rates were 14.25% - including a loading of 1% because i was the first sub prime risk before we'd even heard of sub prime
I had nothing new in the flat and it was an unheated sh1ttip
i had a motorbike for work- no chance of even a beaten up car
youngsters today have it all too easy
sorry- i sound like a grandad- but its all true
ever scraped the ice off the inside of your windows to see out and what the weather is like?
there are plenty of poor people out there who can offer so much but don't have the money
the Torys will not give a sh!t about that
the Torys will not give a sh!t about that
I blame the parents lmfao, KEEPING UP WITH THE JONESES, not the government though
i blame the 'i've gotta have it all' culture - simple maths- buy anything on tick with an interest rate attached to it = you cannot afford to have it
the one thing i bought on tick was property- and i lived so far within my means over the subsequent 15 years as to pay it off
life becomes completely different the day you
a) dont have a penny of debt
and
most importantkly
b) you dont have that burning desire to spend any of the credit available to you
the one thing i bought on tick was property- and i lived so far within my means over the subsequent 15 years as to pay it off
life becomes completely different the day you
a) dont have a penny of debt
and
most importantkly
b) you dont have that burning desire to spend any of the credit available to you
pf, i take that as a nasty comeback and dont feel i deserve it. i dont get involved with politics and know very little about hardly any of it. i rarely watch the news and only read papers in the barbers or a cafe.
i dont know you, nor u know me... but your presumption of me isn't correct.
i do think the world is full of either winers or losers and i think ;abour assume people are the same.
i dont care for unfortunates, or wasters. but if they are happy then thats nice.
lets not turn this to policies coz A) i wont win, B) you won't change me c) this is a property thread lol
i dont know you, nor u know me... but your presumption of me isn't correct.
i do think the world is full of either winers or losers and i think ;abour assume people are the same.
i dont care for unfortunates, or wasters. but if they are happy then thats nice.
lets not turn this to policies coz A) i wont win, B) you won't change me c) this is a property thread lol
ia mate of mine drives second hand jags- but looks at the new ones periodically - we went into the showroom and sat in one - £70k
I could have bought it with the credit card in my pocket
nice feeling
so i decided to keep it that way
I could have bought it with the credit card in my pocket
nice feeling
so i decided to keep it that way
well done lmfao.
an inspiration to many if they actually appreciated what you had done instead of wanting you to give them some of your spare cash coz by your own definition you dont need it as much now lol
an inspiration to many if they actually appreciated what you had done instead of wanting you to give them some of your spare cash coz by your own definition you dont need it as much now lol
I wasnt really taking sides, I just tried to expand on what I thought the OP meant, which does have some rational to it in the deeper workings of things. Though it will not happen because we are too far down the line of investing in our homes.
The simple calculation that states property will always go up in the long run is not all it seems. Firstly compare it against inflation and in the long run it is on track. Add to this e cost of owning the asset and you can be looking at a loss when comapared to inflation. Secondly if you take two examples, (these are off the top of my head so dont correct me on exact number, the principle remains) :
I buy a house for £40K in 1988, and keep it until today. It is now worth 100K. 250% ROI gross @ 12.5% annualised.
I buy a house in 1994 for £40K and keep it until today. It is now worth 120K. 300% ROI gross @ 20% annualised.
There are other more subtle things to include such as operating costs, opportunity to invest elsewhere when not in the market as well as the opportunity to leverage, (which is all but gone for now).
Simply buying and holding is not optimal imo.
In addition to this, it is my strong belief, (I have said it on these boards doens of times), that landlords will be subject to a lot of tax and regulation in the coming years/governments. Hence my intention to pursue foreign properties. There are lots of hints at this in various pieces of journalism and politcal chat but it is all hearsay and conjecture. My gut feeling says that we now have a small army of individual landlords creating wealth that is not in the broad economy and is subject to a lot of cash free transactions. All this time he pension pots are being exposed as a sham, and the people opting out are not helping the situation, (good luck to them for it though). In the end any government chancellor has to say the simple question of "where is the money and how do I tax it". Can you imagine the joy on his face when he realises that it is a fixed imobile asset that cannot be hidden. It has to come I think :-(
The simple calculation that states property will always go up in the long run is not all it seems. Firstly compare it against inflation and in the long run it is on track. Add to this e cost of owning the asset and you can be looking at a loss when comapared to inflation. Secondly if you take two examples, (these are off the top of my head so dont correct me on exact number, the principle remains) :
I buy a house for £40K in 1988, and keep it until today. It is now worth 100K. 250% ROI gross @ 12.5% annualised.
I buy a house in 1994 for £40K and keep it until today. It is now worth 120K. 300% ROI gross @ 20% annualised.
There are other more subtle things to include such as operating costs, opportunity to invest elsewhere when not in the market as well as the opportunity to leverage, (which is all but gone for now).
Simply buying and holding is not optimal imo.
In addition to this, it is my strong belief, (I have said it on these boards doens of times), that landlords will be subject to a lot of tax and regulation in the coming years/governments. Hence my intention to pursue foreign properties. There are lots of hints at this in various pieces of journalism and politcal chat but it is all hearsay and conjecture. My gut feeling says that we now have a small army of individual landlords creating wealth that is not in the broad economy and is subject to a lot of cash free transactions. All this time he pension pots are being exposed as a sham, and the people opting out are not helping the situation, (good luck to them for it though). In the end any government chancellor has to say the simple question of "where is the money and how do I tax it". Can you imagine the joy on his face when he realises that it is a fixed imobile asset that cannot be hidden. It has to come I think :-(
JH- buying is better than renting
renting- you dont see a penny of your dosh
buy it - and do it as quickly as possible - and you live rent free until your dotage - at which time you must take steps to rent and spend your capital!
renting- you dont see a penny of your dosh
buy it - and do it as quickly as possible - and you live rent free until your dotage - at which time you must take steps to rent and spend your capital!
If your not already up to speed look up remediation tax, (and understand it), before you get into any developments. This is where the money has been fo rhte last ten years. Not sure it will survive the next governments budget though.
It is just not that black and white lmfao.
I have now rented for the last 2 and half years. My cost of rent is a pittance really. I have not lost any capital gain on my properties, and I have had the income from that cash which covers the rent by a country mile.
If you mean better for life then you missed my earlier point regarding timing. If you want to buy your house an dlive in it til the day you die then forge the finer points of its investment value. There are better things for you to do with your time. In truth this calculation is simple, it is rent vs mortgage over expected life. If your looking at property as an investment then ignoring timing is folly.
I have now rented for the last 2 and half years. My cost of rent is a pittance really. I have not lost any capital gain on my properties, and I have had the income from that cash which covers the rent by a country mile.
If you mean better for life then you missed my earlier point regarding timing. If you want to buy your house an dlive in it til the day you die then forge the finer points of its investment value. There are better things for you to do with your time. In truth this calculation is simple, it is rent vs mortgage over expected life. If your looking at property as an investment then ignoring timing is folly.
Dealem, I am not being particularly being nasty to you.
If I had met you at a bar, I'd buy you a drink, not that I'm gay of course
statements such as
i don't care for unfortunates , or wasters. but if they are happy then thats nice.
you don't care for unfortunates? what if you had an unfortunate kid but the government did nothing about it? is that what you want?, then I would take it that you prefer Britain contribute nothing to the late Haiti earthquake at all? because you don't care?
lets not turn this to policies coz A) i wont win, B) you won't change me c) this is a property thread lol
oh it turns to politics am afraid
If I had met you at a bar, I'd buy you a drink, not that I'm gay of course
statements such as
i don't care for unfortunates , or wasters. but if they are happy then thats nice.
you don't care for unfortunates? what if you had an unfortunate kid but the government did nothing about it? is that what you want?, then I would take it that you prefer Britain contribute nothing to the late Haiti earthquake at all? because you don't care?
lets not turn this to policies coz A) i wont win, B) you won't change me c) this is a property thread lol
oh it turns to politics am afraid
JH
I buy a house for £40K in 1988, and keep it until today. It is now worth 100K. 250% ROI gross @ 12.5% annualised.
WHAT????????????????????
I bought a £42k house in late 1985 - its worth around £280K+ now i should think
We bought our existing house in 2002 at £222k and as of 2 weeks ago the estate agent we bought from said it is now saleable at £395k ( we're not looking - btw- shes a neighbour)
I buy a house for £40K in 1988, and keep it until today. It is now worth 100K. 250% ROI gross @ 12.5% annualised.
WHAT????????????????????
I bought a £42k house in late 1985 - its worth around £280K+ now i should think
We bought our existing house in 2002 at £222k and as of 2 weeks ago the estate agent we bought from said it is now saleable at £395k ( we're not looking - btw- shes a neighbour)
PS I have met Dealem on a couple of occasions and he is pretty much as he says he is. he is shyte at flipping for beers though ;-)
So you agree lmfao? See what a difference 1985 makes?
Though your figures of growth are above average, which is possible area dependent. It is all about the timing. Take the extreme example. If you bought a house in June 2007 would you now be in profit or loss? If I bought next door to you this year, would you ever catch up in % roi terms?
If it was a car people would see it so clearly. Becasue you bring in the cost of rent vs loan people become emotive over it. I am not talking about owner buying here, I am talking about investing.
Though your figures of growth are above average, which is possible area dependent. It is all about the timing. Take the extreme example. If you bought a house in June 2007 would you now be in profit or loss? If I bought next door to you this year, would you ever catch up in % roi terms?
If it was a car people would see it so clearly. Becasue you bring in the cost of rent vs loan people become emotive over it. I am not talking about owner buying here, I am talking about investing.
Jim Henson, I always know when it's my cue to go for a jimmy when ah ken it's his roond
i think if comparing renting v buying over long term, timing is almost irrelevent
of course there are better or worse time. eg, mortgages are at an all time low at the mo, unless you got one when the companies must have realised that there might be some sort of massive interst reduction so buil;t in capped discounts....
i pay 93£ a month for 90k. means nothing unless you compare it but to rent out my little flat it would cost me 600£. the same mortgage now would probably cost you 250-350 off the tiop of my head.(interst only)
i know a small saving long term but on a bigger home with larger deal it would be far bigger. Homes are appreciating also, which is very important if my home appreciated more than 1100£ this year, i am living for free...
the one bit of luck i had was managing to scrape through a 30k top up weeks before the crash became mainstream..
of course there are better or worse time. eg, mortgages are at an all time low at the mo, unless you got one when the companies must have realised that there might be some sort of massive interst reduction so buil;t in capped discounts....
i pay 93£ a month for 90k. means nothing unless you compare it but to rent out my little flat it would cost me 600£. the same mortgage now would probably cost you 250-350 off the tiop of my head.(interst only)
i know a small saving long term but on a bigger home with larger deal it would be far bigger. Homes are appreciating also, which is very important if my home appreciated more than 1100£ this year, i am living for free...
the one bit of luck i had was managing to scrape through a 30k top up weeks before the crash became mainstream..
The stock market is no different, except that when we dont want to be in it we are not forced to "rent" an alternative.
dealem £93 a month on a 90k house? please state what deposit you made
dont confuse people on here
my lovely ex got a 95k mortgage but paying £500 a month for 35 years
dont confuse people on here
my lovely ex got a 95k mortgage but paying £500 a month for 35 years
no capital gains tax on your own home if that's what you meant.
i think if comparing renting v buying over long term, timing is almost irrelevent
I completely agree.
The trouble is the man in the street starts with this nugget and then decides that he is not the owner of an investment asset. This is ok for some when the market is ripe and allows for leverage. Unfortunately the masses get confused and start to think that the single property that they own is suddenly "creating wealth".
I completely agree.
The trouble is the man in the street starts with this nugget and then decides that he is not the owner of an investment asset. This is ok for some when the market is ripe and allows for leverage. Unfortunately the masses get confused and start to think that the single property that they own is suddenly "creating wealth".
pf, i think the deposit is irrelevant, i am saying what a loan of 90k cost me. 93£ a month...
as it happend my little flat cost 56k i think. i was supposed to pay 10% and the w$nker broker(the only time i ever used one) tried to steal half of that. so i think i put about 3k down. i remortgaged to 90k on an offset. this was my first purchase and my current home. 1999 i think.
actually u have made me think, how can i borrow an extra 30 on top of 53 and it be 90... anyway, it is circa (56-3 so 53, plus 30)83k woohooo i just earned 7k lol
it is with coventry but they weren't my original lenders.
as it happend my little flat cost 56k i think. i was supposed to pay 10% and the w$nker broker(the only time i ever used one) tried to steal half of that. so i think i put about 3k down. i remortgaged to 90k on an offset. this was my first purchase and my current home. 1999 i think.
actually u have made me think, how can i borrow an extra 30 on top of 53 and it be 90... anyway, it is circa (56-3 so 53, plus 30)83k woohooo i just earned 7k lol
it is with coventry but they weren't my original lenders.
and i never stated it was a 90k house or flat. i just stated the loan.
Is that all I am charging you in interest? I will have to review your file on Monday :-)
i don't care for unfortunates
i dont. and i hope i dont end up in that situation, but i have the unique view that we should be able to abort up to 3 months after the birth.
the world the way it is is making too many unpure genes. we should still be fighting the cold and each other for mating rights... more and more unsuitable people breed each year and it only gets worse.
too many bad eyes, headaches and other unatural flaws. if it was animals we would pay to get rid of the chance to polute a prime recipient...
i dont. and i hope i dont end up in that situation, but i have the unique view that we should be able to abort up to 3 months after the birth.
the world the way it is is making too many unpure genes. we should still be fighting the cold and each other for mating rights... more and more unsuitable people breed each year and it only gets worse.
too many bad eyes, headaches and other unatural flaws. if it was animals we would pay to get rid of the chance to polute a prime recipient...
i fail to see that how ...
well ok you got a loan of 90k for £93 a month? is this over 200 years?
well ok you got a loan of 90k for £93 a month? is this over 200 years?
PF, likely a tracker at a 0.75% over base. good times for these loans just now.
and probably an old deal, you would not get one now lol.
was just gonna say isnt "just now" is was just BEFORE...
yea but a 90k mortgage on an endowment for £93 a month?
am surprised the housing market never exploded earlier!
anyway I must go to bed
got work tomorrow
night night(I'm working away too, I can't miss the pool car!)
am surprised the housing market never exploded earlier!
anyway I must go to bed
got work tomorrow
night night(I'm working away too, I can't miss the pool car!)
and like i said, probably the only stroke of luck getting that through b4 the crash that i have had in the last 36 months barring the last 4 or 5 months...
the tide has turned for me hopefully...
the tide has turned for me hopefully...
Jim Hensen cheers for your reply
I can understand it being cheap now
I suppose I didn't know when dealem got his loan
night night anyhow!
I can understand it being cheap now
I suppose I didn't know when dealem got his loan
night night anyhow!
it was £450. get over it... low rates mean low costs.
Good luck, if you have made it this far and in good shape you should do ok.
to let you know, I pay £150 a month, 2 bedroom apt, got 17 years to go!
i agree, and ty. it would have been nicer to get away with my MBNA and Hali Gold tho lol ;)
lol never mind. Always a new angle on the horizon.
When I started work I was fortunate enough to be taken under the wong of a very wise man. One of the many things he told me, that I never understood right off, was that there is always a trend for making money. Spot the trend and get in early and any fool will profit.
This was in the era of windfall payments from building societies and the like. Next was the dotcom era, next was the housing boom, then the onine gambling and trading platforms, (and maybe Ebay too). More recently we have shorting and commodities but these will never get the mass appeals of previous. Just now the trend seems to be in claims for finance. On one hand this has the potential to involve the mass public that is required to create a bubble. On the other hand it would be catastrophic to the wider economy. The former says to me that it will not happen. So where is the next bubble/trend that is inclusive to the masses?
No rush but if you can let me know before bedtime please ;-)
When I started work I was fortunate enough to be taken under the wong of a very wise man. One of the many things he told me, that I never understood right off, was that there is always a trend for making money. Spot the trend and get in early and any fool will profit.
This was in the era of windfall payments from building societies and the like. Next was the dotcom era, next was the housing boom, then the onine gambling and trading platforms, (and maybe Ebay too). More recently we have shorting and commodities but these will never get the mass appeals of previous. Just now the trend seems to be in claims for finance. On one hand this has the potential to involve the mass public that is required to create a bubble. On the other hand it would be catastrophic to the wider economy. The former says to me that it will not happen. So where is the next bubble/trend that is inclusive to the masses?
No rush but if you can let me know before bedtime please ;-)
well, im not sure but i think there is claims that there may be ways out of mortgages... i have spoken to my mates in the "knock your cards" business and they say it will never happen, but to be fair they ahve been lucky not pioneers in their field...
maybe that is it...
i think the money is in development. i really really do.... and hopefully i will act on it.
maybe that is it...
i think the money is in development. i really really do.... and hopefully i will act on it.
I'd wait until next governement get in and then take stock. Also as said above look into remediation tax.
selling fridgerators + freezers to the Eskimos ..
when global warming really bites ,
I do not know one Eskimo who owns a fridge or freezer ..
You heard it here first :^0
when global warming really bites ,
I do not know one Eskimo who owns a fridge or freezer ..
You heard it here first :^0
develop them for who?
ones on government grants? the rich who rely on government grants for developments?
anyway thats for another night
night night
ones on government grants? the rich who rely on government grants for developments?
anyway thats for another night
night night
The vast majority of development over the last ten years has been profitable through remediation tax. If this is removed the margins will be shattered. Even if your not in the remediation scheme the influence it has on the market as a whole can and will effect you going forward.
Student lets, (proper ones not slums), look a good bet imo. Similarly key worker accomodation. And not talking about turing a b ig house into 6 apartments either. There is alot of stuff on internet about future demand and political chat about incentives and securities.
Student lets, (proper ones not slums), look a good bet imo. Similarly key worker accomodation. And not talking about turing a b ig house into 6 apartments either. There is alot of stuff on internet about future demand and political chat about incentives and securities.
i will look up remedeation tax another day. i have had a beer and cant be bothered TBO, but i will.
the changes in CG tax mean i will manipulate as much as i can by saying i live whereever i can to be tax exempt. you can have 3 goes a year apparently...
anyway, hopefully, i have a mate with bigger plans, if they take off i won't need to wrry about that.
the changes in CG tax mean i will manipulate as much as i can by saying i live whereever i can to be tax exempt. you can have 3 goes a year apparently...
anyway, hopefully, i have a mate with bigger plans, if they take off i won't need to wrry about that.
impossible, i would take a bet on that. not knowing what u did untill now.
i bet he is a 9-5 with an employer.
i bet he is a 9-5 with an employer.
The CG tax. My understanding is as yours with the addition of one slight rule. You cannot be making these moves soley for the purpose of avoiding tax. This interpretation of the tax laws is being used more and more often as it is the only stick the IR have when fighting against top tax lawyers. Something else to plan for :-(
Dealem.... 25 Jan 01:39
impossible, i would take a bet on that. not knowing what u did untill now.
i bet he is a 9-5 with an employer.
I meant as in he does not work.
impossible, i would take a bet on that. not knowing what u did untill now.
i bet he is a 9-5 with an employer.
I meant as in he does not work.
Guesser 24 Jan 21:59
all those poor youngster will inherit their parent's fortune before too long so dont fret for them too much.
Ibrahima Sonko 24 Jan 22:03
But you will probably be over 60 when the parents do pass away and then the tax man will probably steal some of it.
Today's 25-35 years old's are the first generation that will be worse off in life than their parents ( in general terms)
What is the level on inheritance tax in the UK and at what what level do people have to pay it.
Imagine a scenario where someone inherits their parents house, can't pay the tax but can't sell in a dead housing market.
all those poor youngster will inherit their parent's fortune before too long so dont fret for them too much.
Ibrahima Sonko 24 Jan 22:03
But you will probably be over 60 when the parents do pass away and then the tax man will probably steal some of it.
Today's 25-35 years old's are the first generation that will be worse off in life than their parents ( in general terms)
What is the level on inheritance tax in the UK and at what what level do people have to pay it.
Imagine a scenario where someone inherits their parents house, can't pay the tax but can't sell in a dead housing market.
if someone gets given 400k for free they only have to pay 40k IHT. If they can't get equity release then there is something very wrong.
And who really lives in the house they inherit from their parents? It would have to be an only child, whoo didn't buy their own house when they were young. Most people don't see both parents dies until they hit their 60's thses days.
That arguement is the bu11shyte the rich put up and ordinary people buy it. Only 3% of estates pay any IHT.
And who really lives in the house they inherit from their parents? It would have to be an only child, whoo didn't buy their own house when they were young. Most people don't see both parents dies until they hit their 60's thses days.
That arguement is the bu11shyte the rich put up and ordinary people buy it. Only 3% of estates pay any IHT.
Perhaps IHT should be increased and the money spent on affordable housing for those who cant get on the property ladder. THen those that made money by doing nothing more than riding a property boom can actually give something back.
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