anyone read the holy bible

Strangely when he was really off on one my dad did believe he was God, or at least part of some cosmic force. But then he was proper crazy

if nothing happened at the board then why the connection

Ok, SNOOCH - that's my shift. Quite a shift.

My final word is, "Don't do it."

And the answer is, "Yes, I've read the Holy Bible." Good night and God bless you. All the best.

What's "proper crazy"?

Tesla-crazy? Van Gogh crazy? Kaka crazy? Or boring favourite backer doon the bookie crazy?

Good night, folks.

If you dont know you dont know. Its not a good thing to be around.

cheers for your wisdom but you have left more questions than answers

Don't forget Snooch - Gospel of John, read by David Suchet - NIV on cd, dvd, tape, etc...

Signing off from Sanity Avenue, 8 miles from Celtic Park...

Remember - it could have been worse ; you could have read the Art thread.

get off the fence snooch

Oh I know, to my cost.

If you only knew what I lost.

Good night.

reasonably interesting thread...

of course i don't believe in God either, but it is nice to hear someone who does being so nice about it lol

i haven't read the bible and have little intrest in doing so. i wouldn't mind reading a summary though.

i also think it is funny how someone can say they are a realist and then go on to say they neither believe or disbelive in God lol... surely a realist woul;d think it was all tosh until proven otherwise.

good point about no one going to heaven or hell before the "birth of Christ"

Bible bashers used to think everyone came from Adam and Eve didn't they? and several other things that have since been disproved... surely any sensible man can see the domino effect and jump ship now.

i went to church as a kid, sang in the chior. Cubs and boy Scouts(church based) for years also, sang hymns at school and was forced to pray daily in assembly... i still never believed in God...

God bless...

google 'the council of Nicea' if you are a christian and are brave enough to face the truth about how the books of the bible were chosen- and which books were discarded by the modern church - and why


religion = politics and s od the truth

I don't believe in any organised religion because I don't live in the dark ages and have half a brain that allows me to be able to make up my own mind instead of believing everything iwe're brainwashed with from when we're a baby.

It a great political control and massive money spinner for the select few.

Googled 'Council of Nicea'. What a sham, a group of authors collectively deciding what to put in there new fairytale book.

I think there is something slightly arrogant about not believing in "Anything".

people must beieve in bears and fish etc shirley

I think arrogance depends on where you stand. I find it interesting that a lot of atheists seem to think they are more developed than believers, because they've "moved past" needing a "safety blanket". Whereas believers think that they are more developed than atheists because they've opened their minds to the possibilities of a spiritual realm and don't need everything to be proven by an experiment.

Hmm, who are the rebels here?

Those who believe we are brainwashed since birth or the minority who quietly go about practising their faith in the face of indifference (at best) and hostility at worst?

SNOOCH 14 Dec 11:14


Googled 'Council of Nicea'. What a sham, a group of authors collectively deciding what to put in there new fairytale book.




Snooch- they werent even authors

Unfortunately they discarded the doctrine that Jesus was not God - the argument being that God by 'his' very nature is not divisible -a decision which reverberates down history to us- imagine if they had made a different decision - then the major difference between todays Christians and Muslims would not exist.

ive read the bible.

I completely believe everything jesus christ claims both about himself and what others claim about him.
I don't believe anyone could make such extravagent claims and then still have millions of followers 2000 years later unless there was something in it.
But to believe, you must exercise faith, the bible talks about faith a whole lot, so it must be important, right from the time of abraham right up to jesus himself, and the sacrifice he made for sin.
There are numerous unanswered questions regarding certain faith matetrs i am not happy about, but that doesnt mean i dont believe in jesus' sacrifce as being the only way to God, or, more precisely, to having a personal relationship with him.

Oh, with ref to ouja boards, dont mess with them, i know people wh'ove had bad experiences after playing with them also, unless u want to attribute the amazing amount of unfortunate happenings in these peoples lives as simple rotten luck

You also believed Robert Weinland's prediction without question.

I played with a Oija board with some mates



and 14 years later i slipped and badly sprained my ankle

Why does nobody actually tell us all these bad stories about Quiji board participants. More**i presume.

the geometry we are taught in school is more 'fake' than the bible, as it scientifically claims that 'straight' lines exists. ON EARTH, you know, the ROUND EARTH. I dont see atheists or other 'informed' persons taking the** out of pythagoras, calling him a fairy tail. he documented things as he beleived were true, and down the passage of time, were considered to be 'facts'.

as we 'scientific' people know, straight lines cannot exist on earth, period. in theory yes, but take a ruler and draw a line, and it aint straight (scientifically). Yet, technology and manufacturing are based on the flawed concept of this straightness. No problems for anyone, as we all enjoy our tv's, cars, plane trips, yachts, etc. however, when our beleif system is questioned, we are not so comfortable, and are quick to classify something as a myth, a fairytale, or anything that implies it is not so, cause if it is were all going to hell...

what is hell? other than part of the fairytale.You don't know, nobody knows but i know that 2+2=4, not because someone just told me or i read it in a book but because i can see and prove it for myself. It is not a Myth.

ovalman i didnt believe it without question, i declared it on the forum and used other prophecies plus my own delvings etc to form a scenario, i think weinland is possibly a false prophet, wheeras jesus christ is the son of God

my friend, i am also sure you know that a triangle has angles who's sum are 180deg, or that the shartest distance between two points is a line... if your intelect is limited to 2+2, thats another story...

Tony Broke 14 Dec 12:16
ive read the bible.

I completely believe everything jesus christ claims both about himself and what others claim about him.
I don't believe anyone could make such extravagent claims and then still have millions of followers 2000 years later unless there was something in it.




There are numerous religions around the world with millions of followers (most over thousands of years) that "completely believe" and in their very nature cannot all be correct!! So assuming that one faction is correct, millions of people are very very wrong and wasting their time. Yet they will insist that they believe!

You cannot argue that "ah, but I just know I am right" because they also "just know!".

I used to know Santa Claus was real.
I'll wait for the second coming thanks.

Don't put your life on hold wedge - it'll be a biblical eternity.

So to sum up
1)..Everyone believes in some Entuty except for 4 die hards on here .

2)...Those 4 die hards believe in Father Christmas or did do until recently .

3)..2 of them are Middlesborough supporters , which speaks volumes

4)...Velasquez (as usual) answered EVERY wquestion put to him no matter how intricate and unbelieving its content .

Right those just now joining the thread are Bang up to date ..
and are struck with enlightenment , like Saul on the road to Damascus :D :D

I'm just passing by on the other side ;)

4)...Velasquez (as usual) answered EVERY question put to him no matter how intricate and unbelieving its content .

Vel answered most of his questions with quotes from the bible. If anything his case has been weakened by this thread.

lol, ivor and joe

maybe you can helop us oval man, does a triangle have a sum of angles equaling 180 degrees? is the shortest distance between two points a straight line? If you beleive any of this, you are beleiving a lie. however it is taught as fact, and the world revolves around these basic principle, which in fact are lies. lies are the basis for everything from the car you drive, to the toilet bown you p iss in. you are more than happy to buy into the b ull**, but refuse to acknowledge a scripture which teaches love. true or not, story or fairytale, it is as true as a straight line...

falkon- there is no straight line on earth

so i agree with your statement that there is no god

wedged

believing is a cop out- it stops you having to ponder the real questions - because its all taken care of for you- its a useful and practical mental exercise which works for many - doesnt mean that there's an ounce of truth in it- but hey- that doesn't matter if it creates blissful ignorance

i envy those with blind faith

To all intents and purposes they are correct and are used in everyday language.

If you want to be picky space and time are linked into 4 dimensional space-time, all to do with Einstein's Special theory. Matter warps space. I know a little bit about it but only through reading science books.

Religion had us believing the Sun went around the Earth, if religion got its way I think we'd revert back to this thinking.

You could pray to a benign god that someone's heart will get better after a heart attack or you can give the patient a small dose of rat poison. I know which course of action I'd rather have.

falkon is a crackpot. A straight line IS most certainly a straight line in one dimension and a triangle certainly DOES have angles (possibly even angels) totalling one hundred and EIGHTY!
The fact that the earth is three dimensional is tote ill relevant.

exactly,

there may be no God, but the principles attributed to His teachings are the fabric of our society. just as the straight line is to geometry. if your problem is 'who said it?', you are obviously missing the point. eucledes said the line, and Jesus spoke the new testament (through his disciples of course). both have been the basis for our lives since birth, and will accompany us to the grave.

i understand and respect why one may wish to refute the existance of a higher being. i do not understand those who spout venom against those who do beleive though, and certainly do not respect them... however, to those who refute, spout venom, and claim the science card, there i just laugh...

ivor, i guess your car and bike and bed are all in one dimension then, and i have truly been put in my place...

and as for my spelling, i apologize, but english is not my first language...

ive read every word

well - no they're not actually. Are you from this planet? AS for venom - where?
As for religion - faudulent, violent, devisive and responsible for evil and starvation and disease and misery - but otherwise it's fine of course.

Humans have no one to blame but themselves for all the pain and suffering in the world: religion is just one aspect/tool of it.
Maybe if humanity could collectively abandon primordial superstitions and accept responsibilty for their own actions and realized that there is no magic that is going to step in and make everything ok.......perhaps then we could continue our evolution on a more successful trajectory.

Preferred the sequel.

Falkon13 - you put up a very poor comparison for an argument. There is not an ounce of proof that the Bible is anything more than a fairytale. Of course the definitive straight line does not exist but it actually does in our real world, where we can see it, use it and touch it. Maybe we should call it something else but at the end of the day it will still be something that is real. Jesus is no more real than the tooth fairy. Why can scientists tell us about Dinosaurs and provide proof of happenings tens of thousands of years ago but nobody can provide anything to compound the fairytales that are wrtitten in the bible.

Right I'm off - got to put up a couple of xmas trees and decorations - see you later :)

Ivor 14 Dec 15:20
I'm just passing by on the other side
================================

It wasn't YOU that walked passed that injured man lying in the road in Luke 10 (30-37) was it ? :0

lol - I'm atheist - I woudl have stopped and helped without a second thort!

thats a good question. there is a theory that greeks are from planet E, and jews from planet Z. We destroyed our old universe through our cosmic battles, and had to take the form of the animals inhabiting this planet (earth) which was in a universe unscathed by our perpetual war.

as for the venom, check out the previous pages of this thread. crackpot, loonies, etc. are some of the lightest comments.

finally, your comment on religion being the cause of pain, war, etc., could say the same about money...

there is more than an ounce of proof.

1.- Jesus was a real person
2.- the historic figures mentioned in the new testament (kings, countries, monetary units, customs of the time, etc.) are true.
3.- the evangelists (the 4 disciples whos recounts of events make the new testament) were registered, real people.
4.- pontious pilot was real
5.- barabas was a real person.

and many many more 'ounces' of proof that the events recorded in the new testament did take place. As for how Jesus fed thousands with a few loafs of bread and some fish, it is called a miracle. i pray for you that you never get really sick, cause then you will have no one to pray for a miracle from... when ones beloved science abandons them, they turn to higher power. when i was about to lose my child, and science raised their hands, told me take him home, i prayed and i prayed, and my prayers were answered.

and for those who needed proof, there is the teaching of thomas... he did not beleive either...

finally, i wonder, do you have the b alls to say that the Quoran isnt so? denounce it as fake, and Mohd as a false profet, as surely if the bible is fake, so is the holy scripture of the muslims (who also beleive in Jesus as a prophet, but not the son of God). Or how about the dead sea scrolls, denounce those as well. I'm sure your wise crack remark will be "ok i denounce them" but on a forum? go down to your local mosque. i will bet you 1000 pounds you do not do it. problem is, that it comes from fear, not respect... our religion teaches turn the other cheak. all you know how to do is give cheak...

not an ounce of truth... how old are you, 12?

I've never read the Bible but someone told me once that it is proof we are descended from aliens, which I found a strange comment at the time and no, he wasn't taking the p*ss and he was an otherwise sane individual.

anyone heard of goddot ???????????????

pontious pilot :|

It's always interesting to hear the thoughts of a genuine bible scholar.

other than my spelling, i am sure it was he who said ' i wash my hands of this...' (do not know exact translation). It is in a gospel form luke if i am not mistaken, and is rad on holy thursday, as part of the 12 gospel liturgy for the hanging of christ. I am orthodox, so we may have a difference in custom, but the gospel should be the same...

Orthodox what?

There is a Sherwood Forest - there was a sherriff of Nottingham - there is a place called Loxley - there are merry men and therefore Robin Hood etc. and therefore - there is a god! Got it at last!

1.- Jesus was a real person = MAYBE HE WAS A REAL PERSON BUT WHAT PROOF DO YOU HAVE THAT HE WAS ANYTHING MORE THEN JUST A PERSON???????
2.- the historic figures mentioned in the new testament (kings, countries, monetary units, customs of the time, etc.) are true. = GENERALLY AGREE BUT ALSO THE HARRY POTTER BOOKS AT TIMES REFER TO SOMETHINGS THAT ARE REAL.
3.- the evangelists (the 4 disciples whos recounts of events make the new testament) were registered, real people. = HOW DO YOU KNOW, HAVE YOU SEEN A CENSUS, DO HAVE PICTURES?????
4.- pontious pilot was real = HOW DO YOU KNOW, HAVE YOU SEEN A CENSUS, DO HAVE PICTURES?????
5.- barabas was a real person. = HOW DO YOU KNOW, HAVE YOU SEEN A CENSUS, DO HAVE PICTURES?????

I am by no means 12 but when i was i probably still believed in some things just because i thought i should, but i grow up and was able to think for myself. You have no real answers except "because it says so in the Bible"

1.- Jesus was a real person
2.- the historic figures mentioned in the new testament (kings, countries, monetary units, customs of the time, etc.) are true.
3.- the evangelists (the 4 disciples whos recounts of events make the new testament) were registered, real people.
4.- pontious pilot was real
5.- barabas was a real person.

All our points are correct, the problem with Snooch is he doesn't know what fence to sit on never mind which side. He doesn't have a clue.


and many many more 'ounces' of proof that the events recorded in the new testament did take place. As for how Jesus fed thousands with a few loafs of bread and some fish, it is called a miracle.

David Blane could have done a better job. I'm afraid these parts of the story need to be taken with a pinch of salt, they were written many years after Jesus' demise.

i pray for you that you never get really sick, cause then you will have no one to pray for a miracle from... when ones beloved science abandons them, they turn to higher power. when i was about to lose my child, and science raised their hands, told me take him home, i prayed and i prayed, and my prayers were answered.

Sorry to hear about your child, if it gave you comfort then there is no harm but its like wearing copper bracelets as a healing power. There's no proof but it acts as a placebo.

and for those who needed proof, there is the teaching of thomas... he did not beleive either...

This is one of the books that made the final copy, what about all those books that were left out?

finally, i wonder, do you have the b alls to say that the Quoran isnt so? denounce it as fake, and Mohd as a false profet, as surely if the bible is fake, so is the holy scripture of the muslims (who also beleive in Jesus as a prophet, but not the son of God). Or how about the dead sea scrolls, denounce those as well. I'm sure your wise crack remark will be "ok i denounce them" but on a forum? go down to your local mosque. i will bet you 1000 pounds you do not do it. problem is, that it comes from fear, not respect...

I've never read the koran but I would reckon it would spout the same rubbish as the christian version. Who's god is correct, seemingly millions believe in allah. Maybe the Hindu god is the right one, or Sihk, or Budda, if one is wrong why not them all? The reason we don't picket any churches or mosques is that we don't really give a toss what people do with their private lives, unlike the christian religion that forces their beliefs on others.

our religion teaches turn the other cheak. all you know how to do is give cheak...

The same religion that murdered millions in the crusades?

anyone read the holy bible?

No, i've got a brand new one! ;)

what happens when we die and find out for x number of years we have been worshipping the wrong god??

Ivor 14 Dec 14:50
Don't put your life on hold wedge - it'll be a biblical eternity.

You do understand that my post at the top of the page began with a quote from someone else?

I do not believe in organised religion, as per my earlier post.

to answer orioles, i am greek orthodox christian

to answer the 'i am smarter than you, i dont beleive man'

do you have a photo? is that it? your argument?

by the way, yes, the census which was taking place during the time of the birth of christ (thats why joseph and mary couldnt find a place to stay and stayed in the barn...) records many of the figures mentioned. now you dont beleive that there was a pontious pilot, or a Harodd. i think that is a matter of common history, no?

how about the temple in jerusalem, is that fake too?

what about mesopotamia, did that exist, do you have a photo? LOL

So is Greek Orthodox the religion to go for?

Was Mary a sluut who came up with the worst excuse to hide an adulterous successful porking?

catholicism is best religeon. only religeon that believes the bread in church is really the body of christ. its only symbolisim in other denominations.

I do understand wedge - I had my tongue in your cheek when I replied ;)

ovalman, thanks for the reply, and thanks for understanding my poor english!

we have different opinions, and as you are welcome to yours, i am welcome to mine. maybe it takes a life changing event to really beleive, and if this is the case, i will be a bad christian by saying i hope you never beleive.

I fully understand and respect anyone who claims that there is no god, or that the bible is fairytale. everyone is entitled to their opinion. however, i cannot tolerate obnoxious remarks and comments about what I beleive.

re crusades : just as much about religion as the Iraq war was bringing about democracy.

re miracles : miracles happen every day. to bring a mentalist (david blane) into the argument does not do much good, as he is just that, a mentalist (illusionist? sorry for translation again) miracles happen where science is unable to explain the logic behind certain events. the man with cancer who is cured, the car crash victim who exits a demolished vehicle totally unscathed, the miracle of love and life. i can say your argument was well thought out except for this part.

when u sit down and read all that jesus said, or, rather, what wording/teaching was attributed to him, you have to ask yourself 'is this person for real?' 'is he who he claims he is?'
If not, and you arent really arsed one way or another as to yuor possible eternal destiny, or indeed, the opportunity of actually having a living relationship with God himself, then you must be reasonably positive about an alternative viewpoint, and that particular viewpoint to me only spells death, blackness, hopelessness and complete and utter futility in all aspects of life.
He said he was/is, one with the father, he said he the gret 'I AM' also that he anyone who has seen him has seen the father, i dont believe mohamad made such claims, nor did he tell people the most important thing which matters in life, indeed the only thing, is to love God and your neighbour as yourself, i cant understand how anyone can find fault with such sayings as that!!
Religion ie men who interpret their own viewpoint and change the meaning to suit their own ends, are the ones who then misuse and twist what has been taught, and then u get for eg the catholic church imposing tradition on others even by force, this should never be the case.

Ivor 14 Dec 18:07
I do understand wedge - I had my tongue in your cheek when I replied

Phew! You had me though! :D

thankyoumugs, i beleive you are incorrect. the bread in holy communion symbolizes the body, and the wine the blood. from what i am aware, the catholic religion does not use the wine in their ceremony, only the bread. orthodox use both. other denominations i dont know to be honest.

as for the way to be, (re orthodox the way to go, hahahah) the way to be is thoughfull of others, love your neighbor as you do yourself, and never do on to others what you would not like done to you. i understand religion is not for everyone, but these are the principles in which we beleive. i do not find anything wrong with the above statements, and try to live my life by them. I am not perfect, as no human is, but i refuse to buy into the hatred being sown throughout the world. people are more ready to beleive in money, than the basic doctrines of love, with the excuse that 'i have no proof god exists'... So? does that mean we are not morally oblidged to be good humans, good neighbors? just because there is no punishment? thanks but no thanks...

Wedged 14 Dec 18:04


Was Mary a sluut who came up with the worst excuse to hide an adulterous successful porking?

you sir, are indispicable...

they do use wine in catholicism and bread is beleived to be the actual body of christ, not just bit of bread but the real deal. central teaching is to become more christ like in our ways, eachday.

So? does that mean we are not morally oblidged to be good humans, good neighbors? just because there is no punishment? thanks but no thanks..
A common ground at last - but I don't need a god or the threat of hell to be a good friend and neighbour and caring etc. The faithful don't have a monopoly of good deeds and many are quite the opposite of course.
So prayer saved your child - what do you say to the milllions of parents whose prayers served no purpose?

ivor, i am glad you think this is a common ground, as thats all thats needed. i am happy that at least the fundamentals are there.

as for the parents who loose their children, i beleive that they may prefer to think of their child as an angel, wathcing from heaven, than a nothingness being eaten up by worms.

the very fact that God appears to answer SOME peoples prayers, whilst apparently turning deaf to the pleas of others, has always been a mystery to me, there are many things we'll never understand in this life at least.
But then, if we knew all the answers we'd be like God.

ivor im bot sure i believe in eternal punihsment any longer, i think hell is eternal separation Form God, ie if thats what u choose for yourself in this life, thats what youll get in the next...
To live without God is indeed hell, even tho u may not believe it or be aware of it.

Thanks for all the input guys. I do not need a god or church to be a good person like some of you seem to do, life is too short and i would rather spend the time with my family and on my own recreation.
Why are the few on here, that seem to know so much, avoiding feedback on my Ouiji questions? What will happen? What has happened?

why was jesus missing for half of his life
why are we all not jewish as he was

I HAVE PLACED MY HAND ON MANY .

jack dee and frank skinner are both devout catholics and they are two of my favourite comedians

If thats the case where do I sign?

snooch, u can research ouja board stuff online, people who dont believe in 'such nonsense' will always ridicule, those who believe there are powers and principalities in the air will wanr of the possible dangers and consequences of fooling with something which can threaten your health, and, even if u dont think theres anything to it, is it really worth the risk?

I know a lady who has had lots of things happen to her since she dabbled, heard voices, been raped, sexually assaulted, been aware of evil presence in her parents home, mother taken to drugs and booze (since died) broken relationships, plus other stuff.

I would also ask non believers, if we're all one mass of molecules, etc why do we all need to feel loved?
I would say this is an essential necessity of human life, where does this need come from? why do we have the capacity to feel love and emotion while a rhino, for eg, cannot?

That tells everything about the mental state of the family - nothing about the ouija board.

Correct Ivor

Seems a touch hard on rhinos. They are splendid dinner companions and I've always found them sensitive and caring lovers.

By the way, Tony, making up stories about people who've been damaged by board games does nothing to lift you out of the low regard of those of us who can whistle and walk at the same time!

well said Orio

orioles, the things which happened to the person mentioned are true, and are directly related to playing with a ouja board, in the words of mr errol brown, 'oh whoa oh........no doubt about it....'

what was all that b.ollox about straight lines not being straight ffs. worst argument i've ever heard.

fek me.

they are pathetic, either that or they just say "coz it tells you in the bible"

How do you 'directly relate' a ouija board to events in someone's life - unless you have a pre-conception of course.

tried to don't understand those long words to be honest buy say my prayers though every day :D

ivor,because the run of events in the ladys life could not be put down to ill fortune, and only occurred after the ouja board playing...

oh and the reason why people such as vel and myself quote the bible, and say things like, 'God said,' is because we believe the bible is the living word of God, ok he used fallible man to spread his message, he also gives man free will to say and do as he pleases, so you'll get anti christian organizations such as the roman catholic church taking bits out, adding their own man made traditions, etc.
There are, however, certain scriptures you cant argue with, such as the prophetic teachings in isaiah 53 about jesus sacrifice, psalm 22, etc which were written cetnuries before his birth, and i am satisfied historically that the OT was wrtten before the New!!

Everyone here should watch the little known film 'Man from Earth'


http://uk.rottentomatoes.com/m/man_from_earth/

fairway 14 Dec 20:31

why are we all not jewish as he was
-----------
He wasn't Jewish , a mis-conception over our Nazarine friend .

Tony Broke

you'll get anti christian organizations such as the roman catholic church taking bits out, adding their own man made traditions

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it the C of E that broke away from The Roman Catholic Church under the reign of Henry VIII in 1534 after he was kicked out of RC church by the pope. Then King James had the C of E bible rewritten in 1611.

I've read them both along with The Koran and have even read a couple of Ronnie Hubbard books.

I'll keep an open mind.

Yeah, and Henry confiscated all the RC property while he was at it. :)

I've read the Kerrang, does that count?

terrible things happen to people who read the Kerrang :(

tony broke and hoss you should read the book of mormon another testament of jesus christ if you want to know the truth

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1236540/Outraged-Catholics-brand-Mary-Joesph-unsatisfying-sex-billboard-offensive-disrespectful.html

:D