Cheltenham Festival
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We still don't really know what she is but having taken a few years to really appreciate Annie Power I have to say this horse blew me away at the festival regardless of what she beat.
My gut feeling is that she's just that good and hope that she'll stay hurdling although there are stronger rumours regarding chasing I believe.
She looks to me that she'll simply have too much toe for the likes of Samcro and BD.
My gut feeling is that she's just that good and hope that she'll stay hurdling although there are stronger rumours regarding chasing I believe.
She looks to me that she'll simply have too much toe for the likes of Samcro and BD.
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Definitely a high knee action. She'd be very much of interest to me in a CH if the frost covers had been on for a few nights after heavy rain but at this stage that's as far as I'd go.
Be very surprised if she doesn't run in the champion you's should watch the interview way ruby walsh on rtv plus the owners have been saying for months they want to go to the champion ...plus what race is the easiest to win ??????
covered the last 2 miles 3 seconds slower than Elxir DU Nutz carrying 3lb less so nothin more than an excercise canter today. does seem to havea distinct knee action. Wouldnt be sure about 2 miles on decent ground.
Ground won't be quick that's for sure so good good to soft or easier at Cheltenham getting the 7bls has to be champion... runs in the mares there's apples jade of level weights .. knee action wast that high on her Cheltenham run .was high but defo not as high as today maybe she wast going quick enough...(Willy says she could go straight to champion hurdle .or a run in the Irish champion ...
Perhaps she alters her action accordingly, you don't hear of it much but I distinctly remember Mullins making a big deal of it regarding Mikhail D'hageneut doing it after he won the Neptune.
The action today was more pronounced than it was at the festival. BD has shown a vulnerability and I wouldn't be surprised if both Laurina and Apple's Jade turned up now in the CH with the 7lb allowance especially considering that Samcro seems to be a non starter.
The action today was more pronounced than it was at the festival. BD has shown a vulnerability and I wouldn't be surprised if both Laurina and Apple's Jade turned up now in the CH with the 7lb allowance especially considering that Samcro seems to be a non starter.
Talking now about going straight to Cheltenham.
Thats the case it makes it very intriguing..... whatever race she ends up in.
As we have no form to go on that's anywhere near top level form its all guessing re punting.
Absolutely no way of knowing if shes up to the standard of BD or indeed any of the other main challengers in the Champion Hurdle, and absolutely no idea if shes up to the standard of Apples Jade in the Mares.
Maybe as Duffy says,they may go CH with her?(and AJ??) after seeing BD at Kempton.
Maybe they will take on AJ in the mares? knowing that BD is a real tough nut to crack in a CH.
I hope she goes CH....I like the idea of a horse that we have not much clue as to how good she is turning up on the day,makes it more fascinating and exciting.
I hope AJ turns up in the CH as well,that would make the race even more fascinating and exciting.
To be honest I don't really give a monkeys about the mares race.
Problem with that though,is I just cannot see connections of both horses resisting the Mares and I expect at least one of them in that race,if not both.
My gut feeling at this stage is Laurina in the CH,and AJ in the mares,but that's not really based on anything concrete,just trying to make something of the form in the book and connections quotes.
Thats the case it makes it very intriguing..... whatever race she ends up in.
As we have no form to go on that's anywhere near top level form its all guessing re punting.
Absolutely no way of knowing if shes up to the standard of BD or indeed any of the other main challengers in the Champion Hurdle, and absolutely no idea if shes up to the standard of Apples Jade in the Mares.
Maybe as Duffy says,they may go CH with her?(and AJ??) after seeing BD at Kempton.
Maybe they will take on AJ in the mares? knowing that BD is a real tough nut to crack in a CH.
I hope she goes CH....I like the idea of a horse that we have not much clue as to how good she is turning up on the day,makes it more fascinating and exciting.
I hope AJ turns up in the CH as well,that would make the race even more fascinating and exciting.
To be honest I don't really give a monkeys about the mares race.
Problem with that though,is I just cannot see connections of both horses resisting the Mares and I expect at least one of them in that race,if not both.
My gut feeling at this stage is Laurina in the CH,and AJ in the mares,but that's not really based on anything concrete,just trying to make something of the form in the book and connections quotes.
plus what race is the easiest to win ??????
Interesting question!!
If that means does she have more chance of beating BD in the CH or AJ in the mares,then I personally really don't know.
Laurina has run over both distancee and looked good.
Do we know what distance shes best at?....I don't.
Normally I would say the Mares should be the easier race,but we have Apples Jade around and last years winner.
Then we have a dual CH winner to contend with who is a horse that suits the CH conditions really well.
I for one cannot answer that one, but it could make for an interesting debate!!
Interesting question!!
If that means does she have more chance of beating BD in the CH or AJ in the mares,then I personally really don't know.
Laurina has run over both distancee and looked good.
Do we know what distance shes best at?....I don't.
Normally I would say the Mares should be the easier race,but we have Apples Jade around and last years winner.
Then we have a dual CH winner to contend with who is a horse that suits the CH conditions really well.
I for one cannot answer that one, but it could make for an interesting debate!!
Hope Laurina runs in the CH, that jumping out to the right is creeping back in again with AJ, that would surely cost her over 2 miles in the CH I would have thought.
I remember the first time Dato Star ran in the Champion Hurdle. He had smashed four decent horses in the Haydock Champion Hurdle trial when the race still had a reputation ie. BCD (Before the effects of the mid-nineties Cheltenham Drainage became widely known). I was convinced he could beat Istabraq who I thought had scrambled home in the novice the year before. Obviously me and the horse were well and truly stuffed. As I walked back from the rails I heard an Irish guy say to his mate "I told you bendy legged horses don't win Champion Hurdles." It didn't lessen my red face as I knew he was talking about Dato Star. So, lesson learnt. I hadn't paid any attention to a horse's action before then. I'm not suggesting this is a hard and fast rule. I was convinced Taquin De Seuil (another horse with legs like pile drivers) could never win at the festival on anything better than soft but he did. I just wouldn't contemplate backing Laurina until I'd seen the times of the Supreme and Arkle.
Anyone of the opinion now that Laurina will go wherever Apples Jade doesn't? No way will they run Laurina in champion hurdle if they feel a mares hurdle is an open goal.
Its anyones guess what their connections will do with these two!!.
Personally I really hope both go CH,could not give a stuff about the Mares to be honest.
After listening to an owner of AJ,it sounds like AJ will be in the Mares.
Personally I really hope both go CH,could not give a stuff about the Mares to be honest.
After listening to an owner of AJ,it sounds like AJ will be in the Mares.
ben,
Laurina's owner is one of the few who tells Mullins where to go with their horse, he wants to run her in the CH and has no interest in the Mares, he owned Buveur Dair so perhap;s thinks he has let one get away, AJ was impressive but aside from her nothing ran a race, her win today won't scare them away if they want to run they will run.
Laurina's owner is one of the few who tells Mullins where to go with their horse, he wants to run her in the CH and has no interest in the Mares, he owned Buveur Dair so perhap;s thinks he has let one get away, AJ was impressive but aside from her nothing ran a race, her win today won't scare them away if they want to run they will run.
Also with Melon's run today Mullins hand is weaker for the race without Laurina in there.
They ought to change the rules of the Mares so no previous winners or Gr1 winners are allowed in. Would make the Mares more competitive and mean the top Mares have to go Champion or Stayers
I agree, otherwise scrape it from the Festival programme. The Mares is usually a one-horse race, and not punter or racegoer conducive but connections; an ant-climax of a race, I think.
I’m not against the race entirely, it gives a lot of Mares something to aim at but you ideally want to see the best horses in the Championship races if possible and it should mean both sets of races are more competitive
Too true 123 and don't let women into the Bar's either
Oh yeah, it was a real stinker of a one horse race last year; what with 1/2 shot Apples Jade being turned over by BDD, with that no mark la Bague au Roi on the premises until blundering the last.
Some years it's a non-event, others it's a cracker. Like many of the championship races.....
I do agree that it has detracted from a few Champion Hurdles, however, but you can't dismiss it as an irrelevance.
Some years it's a non-event, others it's a cracker. Like many of the championship races.....
I do agree that it has detracted from a few Champion Hurdles, however, but you can't dismiss it as an irrelevance.
A few things have happened since its inception that has sparked the debate about Mares running in it that "should" be running elsewhere.
I think that when it was created they didn't consider the fact that there would be Mares contesting it that would warrant a place in the CH as often as it actually has, only Flakey Dove and Dawn Run in more than half a century had won it, however in recent years particularly, there has been a number of high class Mares around coupled with a period of relative weaker CH divisions which has brought the issue into more focus.
I think that when it was created they didn't consider the fact that there would be Mares contesting it that would warrant a place in the CH as often as it actually has, only Flakey Dove and Dawn Run in more than half a century had won it, however in recent years particularly, there has been a number of high class Mares around coupled with a period of relative weaker CH divisions which has brought the issue into more focus.
I still think Laurina is a more likely winner than Apple's Jade.
Apple's Jade had the run of race beating another small field headed by a horse who finished second in a soft ground Stayers Hurdle. He might be going Champion Hurdle but he is 20/1 and very unlikely to be placed. Unless the race cuts up it's going be harder to execute similar tactics in March. I know she had excuses last year but I think her best efforts have been away from Cheltenham.
Apple's Jade had the run of race beating another small field headed by a horse who finished second in a soft ground Stayers Hurdle. He might be going Champion Hurdle but he is 20/1 and very unlikely to be placed. Unless the race cuts up it's going be harder to execute similar tactics in March. I know she had excuses last year but I think her best efforts have been away from Cheltenham.
I know we're still in the dark with Laurina but I've long since bought into the Laurina narrative, I hope she runs and I hope she's a superstar.
The CH has needed a shot in the arm for a few years and this year it looks as if it'll get it.
The CH has needed a shot in the arm for a few years and this year it looks as if it'll get it.
These two Mares have added much intrigue and excitement to this years race,and i really hope both turn up,they should do i would think.
Laurina being still unexposed as to her ability is really fascinating.
Whats also fascinating for me is finding out how BD copes with AJ.
A shot in the arm indeed duffy.
Laurina being still unexposed as to her ability is really fascinating.
Whats also fascinating for me is finding out how BD copes with AJ.
A shot in the arm indeed duffy.
And BD deserves the chance to show mugs like me just how good he really is.
I guess he does.
He has some criticism on here,and i for one would love to see him win this one well.
differentdrum 05 Feb 19 16:16 Joined: 05 Oct 11 | Topic/replies: 7,524 | Blogger: differentdrum's blog
I still think Laurina is a more likely winner than Apple's Jade.
Apple's Jade had the run of race beating another small field headed by a horse who finished second in a soft ground Stayers Hurdle. He might be going Champion Hurdle but he is 20/1 and very unlikely to be placed.
On his win over Mick Jazz/Melon(2 previous champion hurdlers also behind) you could argue he would have gone close last year.
Supersundaes form is far better @ 2 miles .JUst that its took jessie a while to realise that . Why it didnt run last year beggars belief.
I still think Laurina is a more likely winner than Apple's Jade.
Apple's Jade had the run of race beating another small field headed by a horse who finished second in a soft ground Stayers Hurdle. He might be going Champion Hurdle but he is 20/1 and very unlikely to be placed.
On his win over Mick Jazz/Melon(2 previous champion hurdlers also behind) you could argue he would have gone close last year.
Supersundaes form is far better @ 2 miles .JUst that its took jessie a while to realise that . Why it didnt run last year beggars belief.
differentdrum 05 Feb 19 16:16 Joined: 05 Oct 11 | Topic/replies: 7,524 | Blogger: differentdrum's blog
I still think Laurina is a more likely winner than Apple's Jade.
Apple's Jade had the run of race beating another small field headed by a horse who finished second in a soft ground Stayers Hurdle. He might be going Champion Hurdle but he is 20/1 and very unlikely to be placed.
On his win over Mick Jazz/Melon(2 previous champion hurdlers also behind) you could argue he would have gone close last year.
Supersundaes form is far better @ 2 miles .JUst that its took jessie a while to realise that . Why it didnt run last year beggars belief.
I still think Laurina is a more likely winner than Apple's Jade.
Apple's Jade had the run of race beating another small field headed by a horse who finished second in a soft ground Stayers Hurdle. He might be going Champion Hurdle but he is 20/1 and very unlikely to be placed.
On his win over Mick Jazz/Melon(2 previous champion hurdlers also behind) you could argue he would have gone close last year.
Supersundaes form is far better @ 2 miles .JUst that its took jessie a while to realise that . Why it didnt run last year beggars belief.
Why is he 20/1 against single figures for a Stayers? That for me is a fair summary of his chances.
Very likely to be (at least) placed in a Stayers, very unlikely to be placed in a Champion Hurdle.
I would suggest you could easily argue that his form in his three starts at three miles is better than at two. He has been easily brushed aside on his last two starts. He has been exposed as lacking a gear. On that evidence he has no chance. At three miles he has finished within a length of both Penhill and Apple's Jade who are arguably two of the three best stayers around. Those two runs came on ground that was almost certainly softer than ideal. A good ground three miles and there is a chance of improvement and he doesn't need to find a great deal deal of improvement. At two miles he needs to find a mass of improvement and there is no obvious reason to suggest that is going to happen. To run in the Champion Hurdle is just a waste.
Very likely to be (at least) placed in a Stayers, very unlikely to be placed in a Champion Hurdle.
I would suggest you could easily argue that his form in his three starts at three miles is better than at two. He has been easily brushed aside on his last two starts. He has been exposed as lacking a gear. On that evidence he has no chance. At three miles he has finished within a length of both Penhill and Apple's Jade who are arguably two of the three best stayers around. Those two runs came on ground that was almost certainly softer than ideal. A good ground three miles and there is a chance of improvement and he doesn't need to find a great deal deal of improvement. At two miles he needs to find a mass of improvement and there is no obvious reason to suggest that is going to happen. To run in the Champion Hurdle is just a waste.
to run in last years Irish champion appeared to be a "waste" /warm up for cheltenham .But he ended up beating winners of 3 champion hurdles and 2nd and 3rd in last years champion by 7 lengths plus behind.
Difficult to argue he wouldnt have been placed in last years champion.
Difficult to argue he wouldnt have been placed in last years champion.
Yes, but we are not talking about last year's Champion Hurdle.
Last year's race was essentially rubbish. I think it is accepted that Buveur D'Air wasn't near his best, hence he fell over the line. What price did Mick Jazz go off? In a decent year you wouldn't have him on your mind.
If Buveur D'Air, Apple's Jade and Laurina turn up somewhere near their best it should be a much better and more interesting renewal.
Last year's race was essentially rubbish. I think it is accepted that Buveur D'Air wasn't near his best, hence he fell over the line. What price did Mick Jazz go off? In a decent year you wouldn't have him on your mind.
If Buveur D'Air, Apple's Jade and Laurina turn up somewhere near their best it should be a much better and more interesting renewal.
entered in the 2m 4f Listed Mares Hurdle at Punchestown on Wednesday - Mullins stated in his RP column on Saturday that she's an intended runner, I wonder if the ground might scupper that again?
have seen and heard several crab Apple's Jade festival form...
2nd in a deep Triumph Hurdle
won mares hurdle
3rd mares hurdle
compares with Annie Power up to the CH win and pretty hopeful she'll equal that in three weeks time..
2nd stayers hurdle
fell mares hurdle (when clearly going to win)
won CH
2nd in a deep Triumph Hurdle
won mares hurdle
3rd mares hurdle
compares with Annie Power up to the CH win and pretty hopeful she'll equal that in three weeks time..
2nd stayers hurdle
fell mares hurdle (when clearly going to win)
won CH
I think only connections can have/believe Laurina as/is a Champion Hurdle winner.
I suspect Laurina will end up in the Mares.
It would be an extraordinary preparation for a Champion Hurdle to have never run against a horse rated more than 147 (Stormy Ireland, today) and never to have run in any sort of competitive race (in terms of the highest class at least).
With Apples Jade set to go for the big one, the door is open for Laurina and I suspect she'll head that way, regardless of today's proceedings. 4/1 is very tempting.
It would be an extraordinary preparation for a Champion Hurdle to have never run against a horse rated more than 147 (Stormy Ireland, today) and never to have run in any sort of competitive race (in terms of the highest class at least).
With Apples Jade set to go for the big one, the door is open for Laurina and I suspect she'll head that way, regardless of today's proceedings. 4/1 is very tempting.
Thought they had decided definitely CH ?
Cyclops......surely you are not suggesting they will change their mind!!???
Cyclops......surely you are not suggesting they will change their mind!!???
Depending on today and a disaster, the owner (who owned BD remember so has already given up one champion hurdler) wants to run in the CH, and this owner is no Wylie.
This was the owner before Sandown
"She could've run in the Coral Hurdle or the Bula or the Relkeel and I like to think she'd have won those races, but the ground wasn't right and we don't want to mess her up."
Long held in high regard, Laurina is the current 5-1 second favourite for the Champion Hurdle and Sullivan, whose colours have been carried by the likes of dual King George VI Chase winner Silviniaco Conti, is eager to target the highlight on the opening day of the festival with his six-year-old.
"They think she's pretty good," Sullivan said. "Sandown's the only real race to go for now and if she proves good enough I'd really like to go for the Champion Hurdle with her.
"Obviously she needs to step up on what she's done and prove she's as good as we think she is, but if she is that's where we'd like to go."
"She could've run in the Coral Hurdle or the Bula or the Relkeel and I like to think she'd have won those races, but the ground wasn't right and we don't want to mess her up."
Long held in high regard, Laurina is the current 5-1 second favourite for the Champion Hurdle and Sullivan, whose colours have been carried by the likes of dual King George VI Chase winner Silviniaco Conti, is eager to target the highlight on the opening day of the festival with his six-year-old.
"They think she's pretty good," Sullivan said. "Sandown's the only real race to go for now and if she proves good enough I'd really like to go for the Champion Hurdle with her.
"Obviously she needs to step up on what she's done and prove she's as good as we think she is, but if she is that's where we'd like to go."
I couldn't have Laurina unless it's soft or worse. She's often too high or a bit awkward at the hurdles and won't get away with that this year if the ground is decent.
She'd more of a race today than the canter against one other runner rated much inferior to her. Was she impressive today? A comfortable win over 20f, impressive she was not (personally). The Champion Hurdle is over 16f, and 4/1 is mind-boggling, I believe.
Dropping back in trip is not a negative per se, she clearly wants to go faster and is a strong galloper and put the race to bed today when asked to, just before turning in they looked to be stacking up behind her and shortly into the straight she was clear.
It's true that over the longer trip going slower she climbs occasionally, but that be because she's a big powerful mare and finds it more awkward at that pace it doesn't necessarily follow that she will then falter over shorter going faster, it could help her become more fluent, all of the front 3 want a strong end to end gallop so there will be no excuses, whether the conditions are indeed able to help Laurina's jumping is the key point to her winning IMO, but it's a big question. One thing is certain if AJ wins she'd be perhaps more deserving than the other two as she's the one with the target on her back and although she'll be running the race she wants, in so doing will also be providing the scenario that the other two want as well.
It's true that over the longer trip going slower she climbs occasionally, but that be because she's a big powerful mare and finds it more awkward at that pace it doesn't necessarily follow that she will then falter over shorter going faster, it could help her become more fluent, all of the front 3 want a strong end to end gallop so there will be no excuses, whether the conditions are indeed able to help Laurina's jumping is the key point to her winning IMO, but it's a big question. One thing is certain if AJ wins she'd be perhaps more deserving than the other two as she's the one with the target on her back and although she'll be running the race she wants, in so doing will also be providing the scenario that the other two want as well.
Yep, personally having Apple's Jade is a double-edged sword ie another protagonist for BD, but the flipside is a decent pace more likely which will suit BD well. Also, I believe 2m is sufficiently short for BD - 2m 2f/3f more his cup-of-tea.
On the other hand AJ and Laurina (L) need at least 2m 4f to show their best. It's more straight forward to read the form of AJ over 2m (form aplenty) whereas Laurina could have the potential for an upset to BD being crowned 3x Champion Hurdle winner if she takes to 2m just as well as the longer trip I envisage to be her optimum.
On the other hand AJ and Laurina (L) need at least 2m 4f to show their best. It's more straight forward to read the form of AJ over 2m (form aplenty) whereas Laurina could have the potential for an upset to BD being crowned 3x Champion Hurdle winner if she takes to 2m just as well as the longer trip I envisage to be her optimum.
Imposs:
On the other hand AJ and Laurina (L) need at least 2m 4f to show their best.
Yer make it sound as tho Apples struggled over 2miles. When she absolutely bolted up against GD 1 opponents.
On the other hand AJ and Laurina (L) need at least 2m 4f to show their best.
Yer make it sound as tho Apples struggled over 2miles. When she absolutely bolted up against GD 1 opponents.
GD 1 opponents? Supasundae (S), Petit Mouchoir (PM), Melon (M), Farclas (F) and Tombstone (T)?
M is not in-love with the game.
S won when Samcro and M fell last season.
PM been off for 247 days.
F a shadow of his own-self since the Triumph victory.
T described by Elliot as left-behind by Samcro at home.
I understand the winning margin was impressive nevertheless, I do not take it as gospel similar to Bristol De Mai's victory in the Betfair Chase.
M is not in-love with the game.
S won when Samcro and M fell last season.
PM been off for 247 days.
F a shadow of his own-self since the Triumph victory.
T described by Elliot as left-behind by Samcro at home.
I understand the winning margin was impressive nevertheless, I do not take it as gospel similar to Bristol De Mai's victory in the Betfair Chase.
Don't forget Charlie Parcs is declared to run in the champion again, to spoil and pester any front runners
Hard to understand why anyone would want to dismiss Laurina.
She was a little high at a couple of hurdles but other than that she did little wrong. I suspect the faster they go the better she will jump. The quicker ground didn't seem a worry.
I think Apple's Jade will just set the race up for her and she is the one to beat.
She was a little high at a couple of hurdles but other than that she did little wrong. I suspect the faster they go the better she will jump. The quicker ground didn't seem a worry.
I think Apple's Jade will just set the race up for her and she is the one to beat.
I dont think we can dismiss her, we have no idea how good she is!!
At the same time I can fully understand people not backing her,we have no idea if shes good enough!!
At the same time I can fully understand people not backing her,we have no idea if shes good enough!!
Their is no form at all to suggest shes the one to beat,but form to suggest BD is,and also form to suggest AJ is.
And for that matter Verdana Blue!!
It was guesswork at the start of the season with her, and really still is.
Guesses do come off though, but what price is one willing to take?
And for that matter Verdana Blue!!
It was guesswork at the start of the season with her, and really still is.
Guesses do come off though, but what price is one willing to take?
As regards having the form to win Buveur D'Air fell over the line last year and you could argue as to what he has achieved since then. Kempton confirmed that he was far from unbeatable and it also cast doubt over his jumping. Apple's Jade had the run of things last time and ran away from what is essentially a slow two miler. Is that good enough? I don't think those two are going to improve much, if at all, and I would sooner row in with the (much) greater potential that Laurina brings to the table.
Yep potential, of course,but not CH form.
That's yer choice. And you obviously have no issues with the prices been available.
If you think BD true form was last years race and Kempton,fair enough.
I think hes better than that,and has proved it in other races. AJ proved a real threat now.
Its a fascinating race, and I CAN see why differing opinions are being banded about.
Great for the race, and cannot wait to find out which way of looking at the respective chances of the bookies main three,proves correct!!
That's yer choice. And you obviously have no issues with the prices been available.
If you think BD true form was last years race and Kempton,fair enough.
I think hes better than that,and has proved it in other races. AJ proved a real threat now.
Its a fascinating race, and I CAN see why differing opinions are being banded about.
Great for the race, and cannot wait to find out which way of looking at the respective chances of the bookies main three,proves correct!!
I can't take a short price on horse to win a Champion Hurdle who has never faced a 150 rated opponent.
As budd says, she can't be dismissed as she's never come off the bridle but she'll be facing something so different from what she's faced before that the price looks very cramped to me. AJ had been running away from seasoned graded performers whereas yesterday Laurina ran away from modest horses. As mentioned before, this is a really strange prep for a Champion Hurdle and my feeling is that connections may regret not having campaigned her in better company to establish how good she is. The Mares is still there for the taking and I wonder if Ruby still might have a word in their ears sometime before the Festival.
I remember Rhinestone Cowboy starting favourite (or very nearly) for a Champion on the back of equally facile wins against trees and he couldn't even go the pace to the first and turned out to be a confirmed stayer. Not saying the same will happen to Laurina but I can't have her on my mind at the current price.
As budd says, she can't be dismissed as she's never come off the bridle but she'll be facing something so different from what she's faced before that the price looks very cramped to me. AJ had been running away from seasoned graded performers whereas yesterday Laurina ran away from modest horses. As mentioned before, this is a really strange prep for a Champion Hurdle and my feeling is that connections may regret not having campaigned her in better company to establish how good she is. The Mares is still there for the taking and I wonder if Ruby still might have a word in their ears sometime before the Festival.
I remember Rhinestone Cowboy starting favourite (or very nearly) for a Champion on the back of equally facile wins against trees and he couldn't even go the pace to the first and turned out to be a confirmed stayer. Not saying the same will happen to Laurina but I can't have her on my mind at the current price.
I don't think Walsh has ever suggested the Mares. It seems to me he is fully committed and is a part of the reason she is going Champion Hurdle. They still have some reasonable class hurdlers so for me that is an endorsement to her chances.
I find it strange that Gigginstown were all over Samcro running in the Champion Hurdle but seemed to take some persuasion that Apple's Jade should go that route. Owners get it wrong but they must have concerns as to whether they think she is good enough. Yes, she probably looks better this season but she only has that one bit of two mile form and you can pick holes in it.
I find it strange that Gigginstown were all over Samcro running in the Champion Hurdle but seemed to take some persuasion that Apple's Jade should go that route. Owners get it wrong but they must have concerns as to whether they think she is good enough. Yes, she probably looks better this season but she only has that one bit of two mile form and you can pick holes in it.
Be interesting to see which one Ruby picks.
Sharjah got some nice 2m form this season, unlike Laurina.
That could tell you something!!
Sharjah got some nice 2m form this season, unlike Laurina.
That could tell you something!!
The presence of Laurina is an irritant, but I cannot back her for granny's money, and Walsh will ride; AJ unless has acquired the lungs of Frankel this season I'd still judge her on juvenile form. And BD on his run against VB would not be good enough, but he did dispose of Samcro coming from behind until the last easily, and both horses were well clear of the rest.
I'm not overly worried about the merits of BD retaining his crown - the way he's ridden and where he'll challenge the pacesetter or main protagonists eg last hurdle or just after are my main concerns.
I'm not overly worried about the merits of BD retaining his crown - the way he's ridden and where he'll challenge the pacesetter or main protagonists eg last hurdle or just after are my main concerns.
That little jink out to the right is still there with AJ too which can't help going quick on the day either, that could become exaggerated, if Charlie does run they should race him up er inner and try to get her going out ...for as long as he can keep up that is.
A little jink to the right but it looks like that's how she's comfortable and as it helps her to hurdle quickly it doesn't bother me. If it gets exaggerated then it will be an issue.
Imp
You should get your wish,i just cannot see BD getting past AJ before the last.
If he wins it will be up the hill imo.
But shes going to be tough to pass anywhere.
Would not surprise me if she led all the way.
Would not surprise me if he collared her late on.
You should get your wish,i just cannot see BD getting past AJ before the last.
If he wins it will be up the hill imo.
But shes going to be tough to pass anywhere.
Would not surprise me if she led all the way.
Would not surprise me if he collared her late on.
'buddelia', I hope so - where he is is vital to his retaining the crown. Also, I think BD is best between a stiff 2m - 2m 2f, and he can quicken; AJ 2m 4f plus similarly, Laurina (unroven though) - these two are more gallopers to me, I believe.
Why is she still declared for the Mares Hurdle? Her target is the Champion Hurdle as we're led to believe; either she goes there or she does not. If sound, she does, yes?; if she's not, she'll not run, agree? And/or, could the well-being of Benie Des Dieux (BDD) have a bearing on her eventual participation in the Champion Hurdle too eg the scratching of BDD?
This is so similar to that of Douvan when he was also entered for the Arkle, JLT and Champion Chase .
This is so similar to that of Douvan when he was also entered for the Arkle, JLT and Champion Chase .
Thats a long way against 2 proven performers @ the highest level.
based on what other than promise?
beat nowt
cant jump as efficiently as the front 2
fortunately looks like she will get the soft ground to give of her best but needs to pull another 10lb plus out the bag
based on what other than promise?
beat nowt
cant jump as efficiently as the front 2
fortunately looks like she will get the soft ground to give of her best but needs to pull another 10lb plus out the bag
AJ is probably 10lbs worse horse at Cheltenham than anywhere else to be fair, can't have her jinking right at every flight myself, she's going to have to do it the hard way too from the front with the other two stalking her, couldn't have her and BD looked about a stone worse last time and is potentially running in the best CH he's had to face.
Laurina is all about potential, but just because she hasn't it doesn't mean she can't, BD scrambled home against Melon last year and their are more encouraging noises about him recently and Sharjah has been really very good this year but the thought of Walsh getting off of the Mare to ride one of those couldn't be further away, she must be making them look really slow at home.
I "hope" that the star quality that she appears to have comes to pass on the day.
Laurina is all about potential, but just because she hasn't it doesn't mean she can't, BD scrambled home against Melon last year and their are more encouraging noises about him recently and Sharjah has been really very good this year but the thought of Walsh getting off of the Mare to ride one of those couldn't be further away, she must be making them look really slow at home.
I "hope" that the star quality that she appears to have comes to pass on the day.
Not long now till we find out if shes the new Pegasus!!
One thing for certain imo,cant be too confident of a selection with the unknown surrounding her.
One thing for certain imo,cant be too confident of a selection with the unknown surrounding her.
I don't think I'll bother having a bet in the race for that reason, budd.
I do, though, give some credence to the notion that Buveur D'Air was n't at his best last year (Henderson's theory presumably being that he was incubating the virus that his next door neighbour We Have A Dream had picked up).
One of the primary reason's Elliott stated for sending Samcro down the Champion Hurdle route was Mick Jazz's proximity to the principles in last year's Champion Hurdle and the fact that MJ would n't live with Samcro at home - but what if Mick Jazz was flattered?
On the other hand, Buveur D'Air looked irresistible at Newcastle but it later transpired that he'd beaten one horse possibly incubating a lung infection and another with a broken leg.
And he should n't really have been getting beaten by Verdana Bleu at Kempton even if the track and ground did n't play to his strengths.
My hunch is for Laurina - not least because the Mullins camp have a couple of fantastic former mares to benchmark her against and,of course, she gets 7lbs so does n't even need to be the best horse in the race to win (I appreciate the same applies to Apples Jade) - but I really don't like betting in a race where some of the key form lines are so dubious.
I do, though, give some credence to the notion that Buveur D'Air was n't at his best last year (Henderson's theory presumably being that he was incubating the virus that his next door neighbour We Have A Dream had picked up).
One of the primary reason's Elliott stated for sending Samcro down the Champion Hurdle route was Mick Jazz's proximity to the principles in last year's Champion Hurdle and the fact that MJ would n't live with Samcro at home - but what if Mick Jazz was flattered?
On the other hand, Buveur D'Air looked irresistible at Newcastle but it later transpired that he'd beaten one horse possibly incubating a lung infection and another with a broken leg.
And he should n't really have been getting beaten by Verdana Bleu at Kempton even if the track and ground did n't play to his strengths.
My hunch is for Laurina - not least because the Mullins camp have a couple of fantastic former mares to benchmark her against and,of course, she gets 7lbs so does n't even need to be the best horse in the race to win (I appreciate the same applies to Apples Jade) - but I really don't like betting in a race where some of the key form lines are so dubious.
Notwithstanding the pros and cons I think BD is outstanding value at 5/2 for a 2x reigning champion compared to the two mares.
If Presenting Percy is a silly price for the Gold Cup 4.3 for Laurina is an absurd price for a mare that's never run against her opposite sex and Grade 1 opposition. If she wins today she'll be odds-on next year, I firmly believe. But I do not think she will.
Strong in the market, now 3/1 general. If she wins it might affect the price of Stormy Ireland in the Mares.
I was there today to see it all in the flesh, it's amazing really that you really don't see the races properly and get the feel for whats gone on, I'm only just watching the replays now, but it looked to me that Laurina couldn't jump but with everything falling away looked like the winner but fell in one almighty hole.
She traded well odds-on post the fall of BD and with AJ scrubbed along, and going well 2 out. Could the early pace (she was sitting just behind in 3rd/4th), and possibly searching too dented her usual style of running? She did seem to fall away quite tamely despite going the best remaining 2 out. It was disappointing she found nothing when her stamina (expected) to come into play at the business end. Or could she just travel well throughout (it seems) and find little when asked?
Funny, i did not think she travelled that well, and walsh seemed to intimate that as well.
certainly not as well as the winner!!
certainly not as well as the winner!!
I think connections mentioned chasing, JLT or RSA then.
Assuming she comes out of the race ok then she will go on to Punchestown next where she will get a chance to show that the performance yesterday was not a reflection of her true ability.
Well she had everything go for her,BD falls,AJ rubbish,and ground ok.
So either something not right with her,or shes simply not good enough at that level of hurdling.
Lets face it she had no form at that level,it was all hope.
They could give her another chance i guess, but Ruby looked very disappointed after the race.Got the impression they might have thought she was better than she is?
Next entry will be interesting,and the performance next will be as well.
My take on it fwiw.....she jumps like a staying chaser and thats where she will go next season.
So either something not right with her,or shes simply not good enough at that level of hurdling.
Lets face it she had no form at that level,it was all hope.
They could give her another chance i guess, but Ruby looked very disappointed after the race.Got the impression they might have thought she was better than she is?
Next entry will be interesting,and the performance next will be as well.
My take on it fwiw.....she jumps like a staying chaser and thats where she will go next season.
It will be more interesting to see where Benie des Dieux goes next season. She would surely have won very easily and although I don't think there are any mares around that can compete with the best geldings over hurdles, she is the best of them at the moment.
her price was puzzling because she had beaten trees but she had beaten them easily , espoir d,alen as someone on here said had been winning "egg n spoon" races , yet one was 3/1 the other 20s ,obviously the mullins/walsh factor was also key but a big disparity considering we didnt know how good both were or could be . the media machine had people beleving this was a 3 horse race and the rest were merely bit players making up the numbers . often pays to keep away from all the hype /previews etc that fill ya head with shyte .
Ya, another one running in the 15:30 tomorrow and heading the market with the reigning champion and KG winner in contention.
Last post leaving urself open as usual 2 for me Kemboy and PP AND LAY RIVER 4PL'S
My thoughts were exactly what Walsh confirmed, I'm a big fan of hers and wanted her more than any other horse to win, but I was wondering what he had under him from early on, she didn't seem comfortable at the pace even on that ground the worry about the horses jumping came to fruition also.
Had the race been run on the more usual quicker ground those frailties would have been even more emphasized.
She is still relatively inexperienced and her jumping can be improved upon, but having to travel quicker throughout a race comfortably seems a problem that would be difficult to remedy.
I hope she can still be top class but she couldn't have had things go any better than they did the other day and she simply wasn't up to it.
Had the race been run on the more usual quicker ground those frailties would have been even more emphasized.
She is still relatively inexperienced and her jumping can be improved upon, but having to travel quicker throughout a race comfortably seems a problem that would be difficult to remedy.
I hope she can still be top class but she couldn't have had things go any better than they did the other day and she simply wasn't up to it.
A quicker pace in a 2m Champion Hurdle race when she's more of a 20f+ horse (consensus wise) understandably could have exacerbated her frailties, and got her out of her comfort zone badly. Yet, she was trading odds-on in-running post the fall of BD coming to the 3rd last cantering (if memory serves), but found nothing soon after.
She's shortest for the Arkle, and much longer for the Champion Hurdle, JLT or RSA - very peculiar.
She's shortest for the Arkle, and much longer for the Champion Hurdle, JLT or RSA - very peculiar.
She broke a blood vessel at Leopardstown. All is not lost (yet).
Pulled-up again - poor jumping; something badly amiss I believe. I'd be very surprised if she goes to Cheltenham.
Not too late to arrange a covering for this season. Retirement beckons.
These situations are fascinating because twice now this particular horse has run like a drain, so how does the horse disguise this on the gallops, presumably in the morning everything looks fine but on the race course there's nothing there.
The performance is so bad you wonder how it doesn't manifest itself off the track more obviously
The performance is so bad you wonder how it doesn't manifest itself off the track more obviously
Another Yorkhill, and from the same stable too. Coincidence? Or was it because I backed it today she ran disinterested?
Don't blame yourself imp if anyone's to blame then it's me I nailed her to the floor as soon as I started the thread
I've gotten to work on Andy Dufresne now, no cheltenham entries
I've gotten to work on Andy Dufresne now, no cheltenham entries
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